Contact points problem

[Pat Pattle]

Help please! Am currently pushing the Handley Page Harrow project a little further forward but have run into a brick wall with getting the thing to sit on the ground correctly.

This is how it looks in game (very much a wip so be gentle with me!). I've read the SDK and have been altering the static pitch and contact points but can't get that darn tail wheel out of the mud. It flies straight and level so don't think I should be orientating the gmax model, or should I?

The tail gunner is a little overweight perhaps but he's no porker!

Thanks!

http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Pat_Pattle/CFS3_Harrow.jpg

[lewis11777]

Clive adjusting the red number in the first line of contact points will set the height or depth of the nose or tail wheel. The blue numbers will set the main landing gear.
The difference between these contact point numbers and the static numbers in green is actual height vs spawning height. The numbers in the contact point lines are where the aircraft wheel will actually set. The static numbers below that in green are where the aircraft will spawn height wise. Too much difference in those will create the ground hop effect everytime the aircraft spawns upon selection from the aircraft menu. To fix sunken landing gear I ignore the ground hop and get the contact numbers set until all wheels set at the right height. Then I adjust the static numbers until the plane stops bouncing at start up. Please let me know if I just confused the issue.


[contact_points]
max_number_of_points = 13
point.0=1, -13.68, 0, -3.7, 2165.354, 0, 0.549, 12, 0.253, 2.5, 0.498, 4, 5, 0, 158, 179
point.1=1, 2.02, -5.917, -7.4, 2165.354, 1, 0.549, 0, 0.633, 2.5, 0.8, 5.5, 6, 2, 158, 179
point.2=1, 2.02, 5.917, -7.4, 2165.354, 2, 0.549, 0, 0.633, 2.5, 0.8, 6, 6.5, 3, 158, 179

static_pitch=13
static_cg_height=6.2

[HighGround22]

That's very handy to know; many thanks!

[Pat Pattle]

Thanks Lewis, perfect! I owe you a beer :icon29:. :)

[lewis11777]

Your welcome Clive, if I ever make it to GB we shall hit the pub and grab an ale or two!

[NachtPiloten]

If you want you can send me the gmax mesh and the files you have and i"ll give the model a once over if you want. email: theodroe@bellsouth.net

[lewis11777]

If you want you can send me the gmax mesh and the files you have and i"ll give the model a once over if you want. email: theodroe@bellsouth.net

Ted can you just find a Mig-29 instead and give that a once or twice over?

[Led Zeppelin]

please, Ted, don't waste your time with a Mig 29 for CFS"!! Lewis, what a strange idea... hey, there is the Lock On serie for that!

[lewis11777]

Led that is not a strange idea, Lago Sims created the F-16 and the Tornado for CFS3 so we have modern fighters for the sim just no modern enemy aircraft. The NJG-53 group had a website and a team dedicated to making a modern fighter install for CFS3 but their models were very crude as they just didn't have great talent so it disbanded. The ability to mod effects and flight profiles as you can do in CFS3 creates a better install for modern aircraft than some of the more up to date sims I have played. I have a couple just not the one you mentioned. Ted please disregard Led's disregard message, you can do what you want!

V/R

[Pat Pattle]

Thanks Ted, I'll do that once I've tidied it up a little. I'm a bit embarressed to send it to you to be honest!

Lewis - regarding modern a/c what exactly is available?

[HouseHobbit]

To Be Honest I would Love to see a Mig 29 also.. To Bring CFS3 into the modern jet age would be a
big Boost to the sim..
If I had the skill(which I don't have) I would be making jets..

I know there is GREAT Interest in modern jets..
It would be Great to have a "Middle east" sandbox with Modern jets I belive it would draw in many for CFS3
who have no interest in WW2..
To upgrade CFS3 to modern jets and a Modern battle field would be a BIG Plus..Toward drawing new "youth" into the CFS3 world..

[hairyspin]

To Be Honest I would Love to see a Mig 29 also.. To Bring CFS3 into the modern jet age would be a
big Boost to the sim..
...except that CFS3 doesn't handle proper fast jets at all well. Meteors and Sabres are about the limit - better go with Strike Fighters or suchlike.

[FireStorm II]

CFS3 doesn't seem to to handle it's own Vampire very well in MP, either,
but an HP Harrow will be great!

[lewis11777]

...except that CFS3 doesn't handle proper fast jets at all well. Meteors and Sabres are about the limit - better go with Strike Fighters or suchlike.

Actually I have put some mods on my F-16 that make it fly nearly identical to the one in my Falcon 4.0 sim and that one is supposed to be very realistic. Thats why I think CFS3 is a great sim for modern jets. I know what you are saying though you do have to modify the flight profiles to get a realistic flight envelope.

[lewis11777]

A Mig-29 is on the horizon, yes it's coming to CFS3 or at least an ai version!

:applause:

[Led Zeppelin]

yes but I repeat, what for? There are no guided missiles in CFS3.

[HouseHobbit]

Still my Beating Heat!! A Mig 29..WOW!!!
This would really make a Hobbit Happy..
:applause: :applause: :applause:
I can wreck a Jet!! (someday)

[popsaka]

...Hey Clive, gentle -shmentle! Its looking fantastic, and BoF scenarios were missing this one as well as '39ish skirmishes...:medals:

...and Lewis, thanx so much for posting that bl**dy contact point info! -Cripes it took me years of trial an failure to wrap me befuddled thinker around this. Yes many a 'bounce and explode' session before I even started to get what you've explained so well!:ernae: -cheers, all

[lewis11777]

[QUOTE=popsaka;639309
...and Lewis, thanx so much for posting that bl**dy contact point info! -Cripes it took me years of trial an failure to wrap me befuddled thinker around this. Yes many a 'bounce and explode' session before I even started to get what you've explained so well! -cheers, all[/QUOTE]

Your welcome pops, I figured it out by using Jerry Beckwith's Air Wrench to open up the .air files. You can use the free version to look at contact points and it explains what the numbers in each category mean. Whats kind of strange though is that you don't adjust the .air file to fix the problem, you adjust the aircraft.cfg file.

[lewis11777]

yes but I repeat, what for? There are no guided missiles in CFS3.

Vietnam taught us that you can't rely on missles alone and thus far dog fighting remains a critical skill for jet fighter pilots. There is no modern airforce that relies completely on an aircraft weapons system for air to air offensive or defensive tactics. Besides whats the harm, installing this into CFS3 will not be mandatory I promise you!

[Led Zeppelin]

I know all of that but you will have much more realistic and immersive guns dogfights with 'Lock On' or 'Falcon'.

[dewoitine]

I know all of that but you will have much more realistic and immersive guns dogfights with 'Lock On' or 'Falcon'.

I do not want create a debate but I absolutely agree with Led Zeppelin. I do not practise Gmax and thanks for the creators and there are enought planes to be created for period 39-45.
I think that CFS3 is a simulator for this period (39-45) and improving it at the level of set it could compete with IL2 COD.

[lewis11777]

I know all of that but you will have much more realistic and immersive guns dogfights with 'Lock On' or 'Falcon'.

Led Z, I respectfully disagree with you, I have Falcon 4.0 but I don't have Lock on because I got rid of it (didn't like it). I actually prefer flying the F-16 in CFS3 I just want a modern day opponent. This to me is not really a debate as simply a matter of preference. If we are discussing logic however the sim is a WWII sim not an OFF sim but we use it for that era as well. I am not asking anyone to build another complete install I simply want to throw in a couple of modern but opposing fighters. Beside there are all several race aircraft with racing flight profiles that people have created for CFS3 that did not occur in WWII. No one raises any objections to that???

[Pat Pattle]

Lol I like discussions like this, keeps things alive. :icon_lol:

To me it's just a great and rewarding hobby and folks are free to stick what they want where they want it. Also, think of the hundreds of combat aircraft in fs9, for instance, that can't even fire a missile let alone have it guided - and we know how massivley popular that sim is!

I reckon that 90% of my stick time in cfs3 is in free flight just enjoying seeing an aircraft in flight or testing some new odd idea I've had. I'm still contemplating creating a non-combat install as I personally think cfs3 would be a good basis for it. You have to think in broader terms than 'such and such sim is for ww1 or this one is ww2 etc. With a big dose of imagination added cfs3 is good enough at most things to keep my interest.

Anyhow, we're going to make a MiG 29 and thats that! :kilroy:

[Led Zeppelin]

Led Z, I respectfully disagree with you, I have Falcon 4.0 but I don't have Lock on because I got rid of it (didn't like it). I actually prefer flying the F-16 in CFS3 I just want a modern day opponent. This to me is not really a debate as simply a matter of preference. If we are discussing logic however the sim is a WWII sim not an OFF sim but we use it for that era as well. I am not asking anyone to build another complete install I simply want to throw in a couple of modern but opposing fighters. Beside there are all several race aircraft with racing flight profiles that people have created for CFS3 that did not occur in WWII. No one raises any objections to that???
Lewis, just to be clear about a major point: I respect your opinion and preferences, I just wonder why you want a modern aircraft in CFS3 while we have OFF, ETO and MAW available and that the coming Risning Sun theater will place CFS3 another step forward.

So this is just for fun, not for flight sim.

Regarding WWI or pre-war aircrafts, as far as they can be flown realistically in CFS3 because the game engine can do it, I don't see any nonsense here.

[HouseHobbit]

As for missiles in CFS3, we have german missiles that explode when they get near a target, Like sidewinders do..
Yes you have to aim and time the missiles to past near a target..
Why couldn't a sidewinder missiile from the NJG group weapons package be set up to have this ability too??

A modern Middle east sandbox with Modern Jets would be a big draw in for Younger new folks into our beloved sim
as I said have no interest in WW2..
Heck most of the younger folks I know don't even Know who fought in WW2 much less have a interest in this..

But with Modern jets set up for CFS3 would be a Great draw for the younger folks..

I welcome a Mig 29, and would enjoy having a target for the modern jets we do have..
This would make a hobbit jump for Joy..
I enjoy the WW2 and WW1 set ups we have, so why not build Modern aircraft for CFS3 also??
It could pull in lots of people we don't have now..and bring new life to our aging sim..

[popsaka]

...Who did the desert Storm mod (?) http://njg53.viciouz.co.uk/ds.htm --Ted? Stumpjumper? Daiwilletti?:p: ...anyways, Lewis, have you checked this out?
...and as far as the Mig: -Cripes people, we can't have the f-16 and the Tornado shootin' each other :tgun2::sniper::rocket: up*


...and Clive: I've always dug your idea of a Thirties-esque peace time CFS3. I would dearly love to see PhillipM's Tiger Moth idea fully refined, -and the alpha DH-89 and the Avro Anson brought to fruition. ....and a Texan, a Stearman and on and on. -plus most scenery work could be shared with the combat arena, -and a 'spattering' of OFF aircraft could be considered apropos...

*didn't want to break with my tradition of ending sentences with prepositions...

[Led Zeppelin]

As for missiles in CFS3, we have german missiles that explode when they get near a target
which one? Never heard about this possibility in CFS3.

[HouseHobbit]

which one? Never heard about this possibility in CFS3.

The ju_x4 missile,
ju_x4_aa missile,
ju_x7 missile,
ju_x7_AA missile,
luft46_x7_AA,
luft46_x4_aa,
AvHistory_gr_rocket_r4m

all do this Led..

I use these often to down Lancasters and heavy bombers in formation.
I have even used these to down fighters, But you have to have the correct timming to get them close enough to explode
as they go by the enemy aircraft..
just like a sidewinder does in real life these explode when passing near a enemy aircraft..
I have set up several of my german aircraft XDP to carry these and often use them to attack formations of Bombers with great effect..
You just have to work out when to fire them.. Takes a small bit of practice to learn to use them is all..

[Pat Pattle]

a (very wip) teaser..

http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Pat_Pattle/cfs3jets.jpg

[HouseHobbit]

GOD Bless you!!
Finally a Mig to wreck..
I want this !!!
TOO Cool!!!

[lewis11777]

a (very wip) teaser..

http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Pat_Pattle/cfs3jets.jpg




Holy smokes Clive thats awesome! You da man!

[lewis11777]

Lewis, just to be clear about a major point: I respect your opinion and preferences, I just wonder why you want a modern aircraft in CFS3 while we have OFF, ETO and MAW available and that the coming Risning Sun theater will place CFS3 another step forward.
So this is just for fun, not for flight sim.
Regarding WWI or pre-war aircrafts, as far as they can be flown realistically in CFS3 because the game engine can do it, I don't see any nonsense here.

LZ I like dog fighting in modern or old fighters alike and CFS3 is a great sim that will facilitate whatever we can imagine as Clive said. The ability to modify and create is half the magic. As for realistic flight profiles you can get the jets to fly very close to the way they do in modern sims or at least I think I can. It does require a bit of adjustment to the .air file specifically with regard to centrifugal force. Because CFS3 is set up for aircraft to run at lower speeds than jets do the standard airfile settings don't compensate for centrifugal force in a high speed turn. This results in jets turning on a dime at at very high speeds with forces that would tear the wings off if a jet really did that. This however can be fixed with some trial and error. CFS3 is not totally unsuitable for jets and modern weapons but it does take a lot of work to build in realistic effects. As I said earlier that is half the fun.

V/R

[lewis11777]

[QUOTE=HouseHobbit;639576]As for missiles in CFS3, we have german missiles that explode when they get near a target, Like sidewinders do..
QUOTE]

Owen like LZ I was completely unaware that there were proximity missiles in CFS3. With some refining that might well resolve the guided missile limitation we have with CFS3. Please tell me which german missile this is so I can do a little experimentation myself!

[HouseHobbit]

Here they are guys..
Proximity Fused missiles in CFS3 Have a Look (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?58918-Proximity-Fused-missiles-in-CFS3-Have-a-Look)