Hands up who likes making rivets?

[anthony31]

Spent the last week drawing rivets. It is sooo boooring!!

The worst thing is I've only done the bump drawing, I have to do it all again for the actual texturing :( .

Is there anyone who actually enjoys this aspect of FS development?

[N2056]

I can't say I enjoy it, but it is satisfying when you get to see it in the sim after spending all that time with the rivet gun. I've been working on the bump maps for my PL-4 all weekend! :isadizzy:

[falcon409]

I took one of the line segments available in PSP and adjusted it with several different spacings and saved each as a different rivet set. Then when I do a paint kit, I simply draw the line of rivets, adjust the point size to give me the rivet size I need. I add the hilites by doing a drop shadow in white and adjusting the layer up or down to get the look I want. I really don't mind doing them at all. Admittedly though I do everything as a layer on the main texture. I don't understand the technical side of FSX repainting so all of my stuff is minus the bump mapping.:salute:

[Dexdoggy]

...is this for your Eaglet? :kilroy:

[fsafranek]

I took one of the line segments available in PSP and adjusted it with several different spacings and saved each as a different rivet set. Then when I do a paint kit, I simply draw the line of rivets, adjust the point size to give me the rivet size I need.
Yep. Can't imagine doing it any other way.


I add the hilites by doing a drop shadow in white and adjusting the layer up or down to get the look I want. I really don't mind doing them at all.
I duplicate the panel line layer or rivet layer and change the color of that layer to white and shift them by one pixel. Then with that layer below the main panel line or rivet layer I adjust opacity or each until I get what I want.


Admittedly though I do everything as a layer on the main texture. I don't understand the technical side of FSX repainting so all of my stuff is minus the bump mapping.:salute:
There is an Nvidia plugin that will make the bump maps for you using the panel lines and rivets you already made. No need to make them twice.
:ernae:

[anthony31]

...is this for your Eaglet? :kilroy:

Why, yes it is.

I'm actually using a custom brush. It is a 3x3 pixel brush with a hole in the middle. Most of the rivets in Tecnam's are pop rivets so they actually have a little hole in the middle. Wish I knew how to evenly space a line of custom brushes in PSP but I don't :( . Mind you, most of the rivets in the Eaglet aren't evenly spaced LOL.

[falcon409]

Yep. Can't imagine doing it any other way.


I duplicate the panel line layer or rivet layer and change the color of that layer to white and shift them by one pixel. Then with that layer below the main panel line or rivet layer I adjust opacity or each until I get what I want.
Yea, that's what I do too, lol, lol. . . .my explanation fell a bit short, lol


There is an Nvidia plugin that will make the bump maps for you using the panel lines and rivets you already made. No need to make them twice.
I use an Nvidia plugin already when doing the dds textures directly from PSP8, saves a lot of work. . . .is this other plugin available on the Nvidia website?

NOTE: It doesn't appear that there is an Nvidia Plugin for that process that works with PSP.

[stiz]

Is there anyone who actually enjoys this aspect of FS development?

i enjoy it as much as i enjoy doing the uv mapping! :monkies: :icon_lol:

[DagR]

I enjoy making them, firstly for the diffuse maps and then bumping using NVIDA plugins to Photoshop and then processing them through ACES imagetool. I use custom brushes a lot and paths. Panel lines are done as vectors in Corel Craw and copied into Corel PP. I use Corel Photo Paint mostly for the paint schemes themselves.

[Gizmo]

Yep i love it its my fav part of Building a Redux package

Although we kind of work different than most ppl as we start with the normal and work everything else (dif/spec) based on that,i found that creating the dif first them bumping it gives over sized normal map details and way less control of the areas you want to pop out more

Heres some very WIP shots of the next Ozx Redux Package

Laters
steve

[DagR]

That is outstanding riveting Steve !

[Dexdoggy]

Gizmo, Ant will have to turn his transponder to 7500 (hijacking his thread! :icon_lol:) but... that looks awesome! :applause:

[timghetta]

Nice rivets.

[N2056]

I use PSP, but I do my rivets on a vector layer starting off with a circle that is the diameter I need for a given sheet. I then clone it into a long line of rivets that becomes my "master" set that I grab from to start a new line. When I do it like this it allows me to use the grouping, alignment, and spacing tools giving me a lot of control over a given rivet line. Here's a section from my wing I did yesterday...

49867

[HighGround22]

. . . Heres some very WIP shots of the next Ozx Redux Package . . . .

Steve: is that for the default Beav, or the Aerosoft job (he asked with great hope) ?

Cheers,

[N2056]

Steve, it's pics like your w.i.p. shots you posted that cause me to discover that you can really throw a wireless mouse a long distance! :icon_lol:

Your work is incredible. :salute:

[empeck]

Yea, that's what I do too, lol, lol. . . .my explanation fell a bit short, lol


I use an Nvidia plugin already when doing the dds textures directly from PSP8, saves a lot of work. . . .is this other plugin available on the Nvidia website?

NOTE: It doesn't appear that there is an Nvidia Plugin for that process that works with PSP.

You don't need NVidia plugin for normalmaps. You can use the tool in X Normal program ( http://xnormal.net/ ). Use your diffuse (color) texture and modify it to make a decent heightmap (basically heightmap is a greyscale texture with 50% grey as a base. Everything you'll paint in lighter grey will look raised, everything darker will be look concave. Please note - it's relative. If you'll take 75% grey and paint someting in white it will be raised too, 50% grey will make 'holes'. Then start X Normal, go to tools and start Height map to normal map. In heightmap area right click and choose browse height map. For start leave default settings. When your heightmap will load right click in Normal map area and click Generate.

That's free tool, there are at least two payware tools for heightmap to normalmap conversion, they are much better, but they aren't cheap. One of them is CrazyBump ( http://crazybump.com/ ) second one is nDo2 ( http://quixel.se/ ).

And last but not least. It's NORMAL MAP, not a bump map. :kilroy: Thank you. :engel016:

[N2056]

Does this work in PSP, or is it a stand-alone process similar to what I do using Gimp?

[empeck]

XNormal is a standalone normalmap creation tool. Heightmap -> normalmap conversion tool loads image (TGA, BMP, etc.), saves image. And it's freeware.

[anthony31]

That is some outstanding rivetting Steve.

What size would those rivets be in pixels?

Thanks for the tip about xnormal empeck. I'm using a plugin in gimp to make mine from height maps and then I have to do a whole lot of faffing about back in PSP to sort them out so they work in FSX.

[warchild]

Yep i love it its my fav part of Building a Redux package

Although we kind of work different than most ppl as we start with the normal and work everything else (dif/spec) based on that,i found that creating the dif first them bumping it gives over sized normal map details and way less control of the areas you want to pop out more

Heres some very WIP shots of the next Ozx Redux Package

Laters
steve

ok, I can handle a widow a wing and a beaver all at the same time :).. HD Redux strikes again ::lol::

[Gizmo]

Hey Guys

Thanks for the kind words :)

@HighGround22 : This is the default Beaver (AS has far less external detail and some very nasty UV mapping pulls)

@anthony31 : Depends on the UV density,Main problem with Re normal mapping other ppl's work is that you run into un-consistent UV pixeldensity causing you to have to alter brushes/spacing(not a problem you should having mapping your own work i guess),some of the rivets on the engine cowling are only 1 pixel insize,but playing with the normal hight/spec/dif you can make them look a little more round,when there's a higher density (like the beaver float mapping) i tend to keep them 3,5,7,9

One other thing is that i dont tend to define rivets hight in the diffuse map(just dirt/scum around the bump)but let the normal/spec do that work,i also dont make just one normal map but many at different heights and then cut/hack the layers together,this give much better control over the areas you want to pop out,it take a lot more work but i feel its well worth the effort,time and again ive see aircraft modellers pile on extra vertex/polys for useless details that a nice crisp Normal map could represent just as well,but what i hate even more than that is normal maps made from scheme/diffuse textures that are grey scaled and blasted back through a normal mapper (photo real schemes are the worst for this) ugh

Laters
Steve

[empeck]

but what i hate even more than that is normal maps made from scheme/diffuse textures that are grey scaled and blasted back through a normal mapper (photo real schemes are the worst for this) ugh

I agree. I'm using diffuse layers as base for heightmap, they are highly modified before I'll run normalmapper. There is another thing I hate - it's specular map made from desaturated diffuse. It looks as bad as wrong normalmap. And I think good diffuse shading is essential. Let it be baked ambient occlusion (also hand modified, not just slapped on basic colors) or lighting bake. Lighting in games is not that good to use just plain colors.

[mmann]

This is the default Beaver (AS has far less external detail and some very nasty UV mapping pulls)

As far as I am concerned the only advantage that the Aerosoft Beaver has over the default is that it includes more than just a floats only model. Way too many people put down the default FSX aircraft, whereas in reality some are every bit as good or better than the early FSX payware aircraft that were produced.

[dvj]

Spent the last week drawing rivets. It is sooo boooring!!

The worst thing is I've only done the bump drawing, I have to do it all again for the actual texturing :( .

Is there anyone who actually enjoys this aspect of FS development?


I like counting rivets!

[N2056]

Ohh...rivet counter, eh?

May I suggest an Avatar? :icon_lol:

49919

[TeiscoDelRay]

Bump mapping is easy in PSP7. I just make a line/rivet/panel layer using a copy of the final texture for a guide or I use my panel/line/rivet layer. Next I merge the layers and change it to grey scale so now I should have a grey background with all the lines, rivets and other things I want bumped (I use dark grey for bumped items and light grey for background). Next go into Effects/Artistic Effects and choose Neon Glow and adjust for correct look. Your lines and rivets now have a 3d bump look. Next you change it to a negative image and put it back to 24 bit color and color it to the correct shade. If the bump is to strong I use Soften to even it out some, if to weak I use Unsharpe Mask to amplify it.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii22/Warbirds_photos/1-5.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii22/Warbirds_photos/3-3.jpg

[Tako_Kichi]

I may be wrong but doesn't your method above totally defeat the purpose of the normal/bump map?

It looks great in 2D and appears that the rivets have height due to the shading/drop shadow effect but when used in game it will look like half of the rivet head is above the sheet and half below with the middle of the rivet at the same height as the main sheet.

[TeiscoDelRay]

Not really, in effect it works great. Try it and see.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii22/Warbirds_photos/4-1.jpg

[Gibbage]

No, but I have found some usefull tools in Photoshop to do it for me. I like doing the shader work (norm/spec/ref) as its when the aircraft truly starts to take shape. Im just about to get into that with the Seabee and im STOKED about it!

[DagR]

Ohh...rivet counter, eh?

May I suggest an Avatar? :icon_lol:

49919

Stole that pic ;-)

[bazzar]

Futura or Gill sans bold. Line of full stops, size and kerned to whatever spacing you want. Colour to choice.

Copy and paste to two more layers. Middle layer normal, upper layer overlay or screen (for effect you want), bottom layer multiply. Vary the density etc of each to achieve the desired result. With a little gaussian blur on the multiply layer you can achive that flush riveted effect on modern warplanes quite easily. Shift the overlay layer a point or two and you get a natural highlight or sinkage.

Just use the normal layer, embossed a small amount and flatten for your normal map. Make a strip 2048 wide and you've got all the rivets you'll ever need.

Works every time for me.

Or, draw a circle and fill, add scratches , shade and shadow, add a multiply layer below and offset a point. Flatten, reduce to size and duplicate the layer for however many you need. Anorak's approach.

I have pre-prepared strips of rivets in all heights and depths, colours etc. I just hook them out and duplicate for the job in hand.:engel016:

[Gibbage]

Myself, I have used this method for YEARS. Its fast, and gets good results in Photoshop.

http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/f37-photoshop-tutorials/step-step-rivets-479/