Paths of Hate

[Phantom88]

Intense Air Combat!! Incredible CGI!!
o_KyUDkKsY8

[Gibbage]

Artistically amazing. Wow. Thanks for sharing this!

[MenendezDiego]

that was insane

[P38man]

Underneath the mask of a "human" face we are driven relentlessly by unconscious identification with our egos.

This is insane.

This is normal.

Had they crawled up to each other and looked at each other in stillness they would have recognised consciousness in each other and the fighting would have stopped (only at the point the ego had no other option - too tired and injured).

The white trails during the fight and the red trails at the end represent the wiring of the brain that has hard coded our violent natures in us and have given us a history of pain and suffering.

It is time to transcend the ego.

Right now.

[Marvin Carter]

You cant really let go of the Ego because it is your id, you being, your conscience state. My old Sensei would always say Educate your Ego and It will set you Free!!!

[P38man]

You cant really let go of the Ego because it is your id, you being, your conscience state. My old Sensei would always say Educate your Ego and It will set you Free!!!

Yes. I would have said something similar a number of years ago.

You can transcend however - try this. I cannot do it all the time...yet....but there is improvement all the time.

The realisation has changed my life.
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577311523

[Bjoern]

With a lot less over the top action I'd gladly accept a WW2 movie in that style. With the same soundtrack.

[roger-wilco-66]

Great CGI work, and a most disturbing plot.

Nice analysis, P38man, by the way. I concur.



Cheers,
Mark

[CodyValkyrie]

I saw a few previews of this on YouTube. I would love to watch this movie, but where can I find it? The link above does not work.

[Phantom88]

Yeah,Bummer,They took it off line for some reason:banghead:

[roger-wilco-66]

Interesting, from a presentation at the Autodesk boot at SIGGRAPH, with a bit of a "making of" :

http://vimeo.com/27716580


(http://vimeo.com/27716580)

[roger-wilco-66]

I think this is the full version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_KyUDkKsY8

n (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_KyUDkKsY8)ow I've got to be quick to save my browser cache to retrieve this thing before it is sacked again! :-)

Cheers,
Mark

[FSN]

That was simply amazing! Great sound design in there.

[foreigndevil]

Artistically a great piece of work. As for the title, atmosphere, music ... I don't like it at all! It really breathes hate and destruction.

[warchild]

Artistically a great piece of work. As for the title, atmosphere, music ... I don't like it at all! It really breathes hate and destruction.

Well, thats war.

[Killbilly]

Artistically a great piece of work. As for the title, atmosphere, music ... I don't like it at all! It really breathes hate and destruction.

But the theme is definitely anti-hate. The film illustrates the consequences. Notice the Rosary gets broken and the picture of the bride gets ruined and lost. Religion and family are destroyed by hate. Finally, the two lose their humanity and their lives. Good theme, I think.

[warchild]

But religion and family, so often lead to war. Its an us versus them world. As we each live mistrusting of others, fearful and insecure, our needs go unexpressed, desires get frustrated and those who are not like us, become fodder for the grave. In the end, its because we all stand singularly alone with nothing but our gods and the few we think we love, that we go to war. We'd rather kill than reach out. After all, There can be only one: Second place is no place and winner takes all.. Its only human.
We're such a pathetic species when our souls stand naked.

[Bjoern]

"Us"?
Last time I checked life was a single player game.
Unless, of course, you are a schizophrenic or have multiple personalities. Then it's clearly a "hot seat" mode.


Soundtrack:
http://soundcloud.com/genetix-sound-studio/paths-of-hate



- E:

[/URL][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC-Sq4V5Ij8&"]Oh, internet, you're great! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC-Sq4V5Ij8&)

[roger-wilco-66]

"Us"?
Last time I checked life was a single player game.
[...]



Oh, no. In my opinion psychology is something transpersonal, at least. You always interact with others, and are always embedded in some kind of peer group. I think Pam is right with her statement.
Look at that video. There's an personal seeming inter-relationship at first, which is an interaction, not a single player game. It transcends towards an universal violence probably only found among humans at the end. The reasons are embedded in cultural, religious or other motives, look at the end of the video, with the shapes of all kind of stereotype fighters coming up.

Hey, Björn, it's great you found another link for that. I'd like to buy that masterpiece, in 1080 quality in 3D (that would come great!) and 5.1 surround quality, don't understand why they don't sell it. Love the soundtrack.

Cheers,
Mark

[kilo delta]

The "making of" video can be found here...

http://www.itsartmag.com/features/pathshatemo/

[warchild]

"Us"?
Last time I checked life was a single player game.
Unless, of course, you are a schizophrenic or have multiple personalities. Then it's clearly a "hot seat" mode.




We all have multiple personalities. A personality for friends, a personality for work, a personality for strangers , it goes on. Everyone has them. They are caused by perceived expectations and levels of trust and betrayal. We are raised, do what we're told, follow the rules, tow the line and dont make waves, and so we deviate from who we really are in our base need of acknowledgment and acceptance. Fear of being alone. Fear of being shunned, fear of being disliked, fear of being "different". fear of being held responsible for actually caring because that takes more real courage, than killing a man. But we are all different, all unique, all very special. We cannot, nor should we ever try to escape that, even when like so many of us, your differences make you a hunted animal, chosen for the sport of others simply because they fear you might blow them a kiss.

::chuckles:: i'm not called warchild for nothing.. ;)

[deathfromafar]

Intense! Grabbed me inside in a strange unsettling way, standing outside looking back in (perspective). Deep breath, silence........

[Roger]

Ooops...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/hate.jpg

[CodyValkyrie]

Wow, that was intense. Definitely something that you can be introspective about. That was quite a brilliant video, and extremely well made. You can draw a lot of conclusions from that video for sure. What I found interesting was the producer purposely made the film about WWII pilots. That was a war that took on a whole new meaning, so there does seem to be an agenda somewhat. Either way, I did find the short film to be engrossing and thought provoking, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Helldiver]

Baloney to all this soul searching crap. It's war and your given a job to do. It's totally impersonal as ths film would have you believe. You go out and do the best you can. Hate has nothing to do with it. Don't read any more into it than there really is. Hopefully you shoot the other plane down before he does it to you.
End of statement.

[Warrant]

Ooops...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/hate.jpg

Bjoern's link still works fine.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?58191-Paths-of-Hate&p=633140&viewfull=1#post633140

[Killbilly]

Baloney to all this soul searching crap. It's war and your given a job to do. It's totally impersonal as ths film would have you believe. You go out and do the best you can. Hate has nothing to do with it. Don't read any more into it than there really is. Hopefully you shoot the other plane down before he does it to you.
End of statement.

Well, you're certainly entitled to that opinion; and I'm sure that many people were (and are) able to keep it "professional" and impersonal. However, my grandfather watched his two best friends die. It became VERY personal for him after that. He took a personal satisfaction from killing the enemy. To the day he died, years and years later, he couldn't even look at people of a certain nationality without feeling anger. One of my good friends, missing both his legs and many of his fingers due to a booby-trap in Vietnam, has only recently let his personal hatred of the enemy go. My nephew just returned from his second tour in Afghanistan. It's certainly personal for him, and he has a difficult time being around people who remind him of the Afghans. There are many, many personal accounts from soldiers (including pilots) for whom the fighting became personal and who talk about hating the enemy. It's part of our nature. Boxing matches, basketball games, and even chess matches often start out cool and professional, but then turn personal.
The film, in my opinion, is not about war or a dogfight. It uses war and the fight as a metaphor for what happens when conflicts turn personal and people refuse to let go. Honestly, as I watched, I found myself thinking of someone with whom I've been in a running argument for about twelve years. It's probably time I let it go, but it would be very hard. Maybe I need to do a little more soul searching rather than a little less.
However, as I said, you have your experiences to draw from and your opinion is valid. Just don't discount others' opinions because they differ. :salute:

[Marvin Carter]

My old Sensei would also say, if that don't work, Kill them all and let what ever they have for a Bajeeses sort it out. Just had to love that old man!!!

[Bjoern]

Oh, no. In my opinion psychology is something transpersonal, at least. You always interact with others, and are always embedded in some kind of peer group. I think Pam is right with her statement.
Look at that video. There's an personal seeming inter-relationship at first, which is an interaction, not a single player game. It transcends towards an universal violence probably only found among humans at the end. The reasons are embedded in cultural, religious or other motives, look at the end of the video, with the shapes of all kind of stereotype fighters coming up.

The term "single player game" refers to control. You are only in control of yourself and the others are NPCs (non-player characters) that ultimately can't be controlled by you. The only thing you can do is interact with them (say manipulate them), but all along you're in the game for yourself.

Violence isn't unique to humans. Thanks to our mental capabilities we just managed exercising it more sophisticated.
The basics, "me or him", "us or they", are no different from wolves, apes or elephants. If you gave lions guns, drones and tanks, they would use them no differently than we do.




We cannot, nor should we ever try to escape that, even when like so many of us, your differences make you a hunted animal, chosen for the sport of others simply because they fear you might blow them a kiss.

Note to self: Blow kisses to strangers and note reactions. :>




What I found interesting was the producer purposely made the film about WWII pilots.

Audience service, I think.
I wouldn't say that the real air battles between the RAF and LW were this emotional.
For sheer hate, a firefight on the eastern front, preferably between SS and Guards troops would have been more suitable, but a 109 and Spitfire might be more recognizable than a K98 and a PPSh.

[warchild]

no, the animals would not. Its a quite well known fact that only primates kill each other for sport or greed.. We are primates, Lions are feline and therefore self appointed gods and above it all.. dont believe me?? ask your cat, and watch his reaction ::lol:;...
Seriously though, no one in my experience is an NPC. I am made stronger and more capable by those who stand beside me. Who I support, and who support me. Having been on the recieving end of all that hate I mentioned earlier, and having to contiue being on the receiving end of it ( what, you thought i was always a girl?? come on, what girl knows then chamber pressure of am M-16?/ ) I do beliee I have a rather unique understanding. but Hate is most assuredly fear ( an emotion I have no time for any more ). It is the abject rejection of seeking an understanding and a willingness to use whatever violence is mandated to support it.
Hate, prejudice, laziness and fear are all bull****, irregardless of the cost of taking the initiative to reach out, step forward and be unafraid.

[jp]

Ok, work with me Im slow... But I think that when the screen becomes bathed in red, it is more illustrating the inner hatred the pilots feel towards each other, and it is not what is happening in the real world, but illustrates the lengths that hatred is capable of driving people to. Also, I agree with Helldiver's view that these men viewed it as their job, it was probably an impersonal war in which the men were fighting a broad, faceless enemy, and as such little emotion was attached to their enemies. Also, you can search for, and find many examples of people "keeping it professional", through small acts of mercy and kindness that do not reflect the level of hatred portrayed in this short film.

[warchild]

Well, i see that they finally yanked the version on the site Bjeorn had posted.. If I may be snide, it seems that apparently their movie is too good to be seen by the unwashed masses.. How sad..

[deathfromafar]

Baloney to all this soul searching crap. It's war and your given a job to do. It's totally impersonal as ths film would have you believe. You go out and do the best you can. Hate has nothing to do with it. Don't read any more into it than there really is. Hopefully you shoot the other plane down before he does it to you.
End of statement.

It's different for each person depending on what they faced/saw and a host of other personality traits. Myself and many of my family members have served in times of war going back to relatives who served in WW1 and 2. I have nephews who served in Iraq and currently Afghanistan. I never saw it effect any of them the same and just when I thought some of them weren't badly scared by it, the scars came raging to the surface. It's not normal for human beings to idly accept casting themselves into such hellish conditions nor to inflict or accept death and destruction against fellow human beings. If remorse and apprehension of committing oneself to such things didn't exist within, I'd tend to think there'd be no soul searching or conscience, we would become the inhumane antithesis of all good things we believe in. But you're right, it is a job and one designed to keep such hell(hopefully) safely away from the masses and our way of life.

The video had a lot of meaning buried inside of it. It's not easy to explain, I neither embrace or reject it's meaning.

[roger-wilco-66]

What I found interesting was the producer purposely made the film about WWII pilots.
[...]


He explained this in his presentation at the SIGGRAPH convention. He has a passion for aviation and old aircraft, and was inspired by pictures of the vapor trails that aircraft left in aerial battles in the sky.
See http://www.itsartmag.com/features/pathshatemo/

Cheers,
Mark

[strykerpsg]

Baloney to all this soul searching crap. It's war and your given a job to do. It's totally impersonal as ths film would have you believe. You go out and do the best you can. Hate has nothing to do with it. Don't read any more into it than there really is. Hopefully you shoot the other plane down before he does it to you.
End of statement.

:a1451:

[Bjoern]

no, the animals would not. Its a quite well known fact that only primates kill each other for sport or greed.. We are primates, Lions are feline and therefore self appointed gods and above it all.. dont believe me?? ask your cat, and watch his reaction ::lol:;...

"Sport" and "greed" can all be traced back to primal insticts.

Sport ist just hunting without eating the carcass. Or without having an imminent threat to one's territory, existence or peer group.
Greed is just about the same. Stockpiling for bad times to ensure survival.

The difference being, that apparently with a higher mental processing capability, animals tend to do this without immediate need. To stay sharp, to keep their instincts at bay or whatever.


Seriously though, no one in my experience is an NPC. I am made stronger and more capable by those who stand beside me. Who I support, and who support me.

Sure, a group is always more prone to ensure survival of everone in it in a hostile environment. The need for being in one though, greatly diminishes once the environment is perfectly safe though.

And still, despite (temporarily) aiming for the same goals, ultimately everone is in it for him-/herself and will, more or less, betray you. (The "F***, you buddy" principle.)

Take kids, for example. You raise 'em to basically be as much of a copy of you (kind of getting a bonus life in Super Mario) as you can achieve, but once they can survive on their own in this world, they're off to do whatever *they* want to and subsequently adapt to their new environment.


( what, you thought i was always a girl?? come on, what girl knows then chamber pressure of am M-16?/ )

Those serving in the military? Those spending their time on shooting ranges?


but Hate is most assuredly fear ( an emotion I have no time for any more ).

Yes, it is. And if it's just fear of, or compensation for, weakness(es).


Hate, prejudice, laziness and fear are all bull****, irregardless of the cost of taking the initiative to reach out, step forward and be unafraid.

In modern society, it sure is. Still, there's a group even for those who hate and are prejudiced and lazy. BUT getting along with everyone (or at least trying) gets you way farther than a narrow mindset these days.




Well, i see that they finally yanked the version on the site Bjeorn had posted.. If I may be snide, it seems that apparently their movie is too good to be seen by the unwashed masses.. How sad..

They just underestimate the PR potential of the internet. They always do.

[CodyValkyrie]

The video keeps getting yanked for copyright infringement.

If I may be so bold, there are certainly things I "hate." I do however believe that everything should be in balance, and balancing anger and hate is part of that system. For example, I hate it when my cat decides to take a pee outside of her litter box.... but it doesn't mean I turn her into set of furry new slippers. This is about controlling anger more than anything else I feel.

[DarrenL]

The trailers are still online (for now), if the 10min films are the full films then I can understand them no wanting them online . If they are just longer trailers being pulled for copyright issues I wonder if there is soemthing in them that they are having to change due to a copyright problem on their side, the animation to me looks a lot like rotoscoping where live action film is animated over, think of the 1978 Lord if the Rings and the 2006 film A Scanner Darkly. Perhaps they have used scene footage (animated over) from a film during one point that they didn't have permission to use.

[YoYo]

PATHS OF HATE is a short tale about the demons that slumber deep in the human soul and have the power to push people into the abyss of blind hate, fury and rage.

Here new version of this 10min of movie from Poland.

(edited by Roger for potential copywrite issues.)

Enjoy!

http://secondgate.pl/pictures/pathsOfHate_003.png

[Roger]

Thanks YoYo,
Finally got to see it and it is a great work of digital art. It is another work on the "futility of war" showing the ultimate emotion of "hate" is totally destructive. Not a new message but beautifully crafted. I suppose it represents more the hate of the impotent non-combatant in a dream of combat rather than the emotions displayed by most actual combatants.

[YoYo]

Yep but dont look for this vid as real behaviors ;). If we turn off with sims/real subjects will be ok :mixedsmi:.
Mastery climate.

[warchild]

ahhh so true guys, but what it so wonderfully shows, is the part we each have deep inside of, that we will not own and will deny is there. Its the part we as a "civilized" species, most fear because it harkens back to our most primitive drives.

First he loses his god ( the rosary breaks ) then he loses his care for his wife ( the picture gets bloodied and flies out the window ) then he loses his last trace of humanity and becomes the animal we are all afraid of becoming.. Well, most of us..
:)

[CodyValkyrie]

I tend to wonder if pride isn't playing a role here as well. There is a reason it is a deadly sin.

[fsafranek]

I tend to wonder if pride isn't playing a role here as well. There is a reason it is a deadly sin.
Absolutely right!

And thanks for the working link YoYo.

:ernae:

[warchild]

I tend to wonder if pride isn't playing a role here as well. There is a reason it is a deadly sin.

in many ways, I couldnt agree more.. In other ways, i agree but see the complexities surrounding it.

[Scratch]

Baloney to all this soul searching crap. It's war and your given a job to do. It's totally impersonal as ths film would have you believe. You go out and do the best you can. Hate has nothing to do with it. Don't read any more into it than there really is. Hopefully you shoot the other plane down before he does it to you.
End of statement.

Agreed, but it is still a great video showing the destructiveness of hatred. No soul searching needed for those who have had to take life in war, it was just something that was necessary to accomplish the mission. Even though it affects folks differently the result is still the same, somebody goes home, somebody doesn't. Hate is an acid on the soul. Killing someone in war does not remotely mean that you hate that person. On a personal level it is just about survival, nothing more.

[wombat666]

A crock in my NSHO.
Interesting animation, but no deep and profound meanings.
As a former professional soldier 'Hate' is not an emotion that comes into play, it is a waste of energy, irrational and totally 'Unprofessional'.
As for 'Survival', not at all, one just gets on and does one's job.
Period.
:173go1:

[Roger]

It's been brought to our attention that there is probably a copywrite issue here so unfortunately I'll have to remove the link from YoYo's post. I'm glad I got to see it though.

[TeaSea]

I was wondering about that Roger....good catch, although completely innocent posting for which I too would add my thanks.

As for hate and all this other soul searching.... I have to echo the thoughts of other combat vets. I know Hollywood likes to portray all this angst and emotion, but my own experience is very, very different. Everyone focuses on their immediate job. Some of the most calm people I've ever seen are in combat. There may be a surge of adrenaline, but people are totally focused and objective and beyond a certain amount of tension I've never observed a lot of emotion.

I speak only from my experience obviously, but in talking with other vets I think it pretty much matches theirs.

[Helldiver]

Wombat and TeaSea is quite correct, counter to what some of you think.
Hatred is a waste of time and only masks objectivity, what your there to do.
To me, the film had no bearing on reality. Just a clever piece of animation.

[Bjoern]

As for hate and all this other soul searching.... I have to echo the thoughts of other combat vets. I know Hollywood likes to portray all this angst and emotion, but my own experience is very, very different.

While I despise those overly dramatic Hollywood flicks, I think they have a point showing men breaking down.
Although this most probably only happens during resting periods when the adrenaline levels back down again and one can start to actually think about everything.

"Generation Kill" shows this quite well. One Corporal is on stims basically all the way from the border to Baghdad. He talks and talks, gets out of his HMMWV under fire to dissolve a traffic jam, talks even more and just when they get a few days of R&R in Baghdad and the stims wear off, he is shown not saying even a single word and gets all moot because he finally copes with what had happened in the last few days.
Gets the point across very well.

[heywooood]

so there is no room for hatred in war...? amazing notion.

is that only on the lowly soldiers level - where basic survival has to be the only occupation...where all else is a distraction?

maybe only that which brings mankind to warfare involves the 'spirit' of hatred?...or is there no hate there either?..

maybe the hatred is reserved for Generals and Admirals, plotting and planning the best, quickest ways to destroy their opponent in the field.

many have argued that toward the end of the war in the Pacific, when the US was effectively using incendiary weapons against the largest population centers on the island of Japan, there was

no need to use the atomic bombs...that it was hatred of the Japanese on the one hand - and / or - the desire to show then USSR leadership that the US had achieved this ridiculous capability first... an egocentric 'reason' or a geopolitical one, on the other hand, if you like.

Many veterans of that war that I have had the opportunity to know have said that they HATED the Japanese of that time for a specific reason...and that they would have gone to war in either theater - but

especially noted this difference between the way they thought of fighting Germany vs. the way they thought of fighting Japan.

but to say flatly that there is no room for hatred in war...maybe not even in battle is more disturbing than letting hate rule....it leaves only blood lust, or ego as motivation because if you try to say it is survival instinct I have an answer for you...you wouldn't put yourself there in the first place.

I liked the video for its artistic and technical merit - and the fact that it did not glorify war...rather it symbolized an aspect of humanity that is dark and ominous - our willingness to fight to the death with each other
and destroy our own kind in blood red battle regardless of the cause or 'reason'

[PRB]

The alternative to hatred in war is not necessarily “ego & blood lust.” How about simple courage and detached professionalism? And it probably matters what your particular experience was. 20Mm gunners on the exposed weather decks of destroyers charging Japanese battleships off Samar in 1944, or fending off kamikaze attacks didn't have much control over their destiny. They were along for the ride, more or less. They could hate or not hate, it didn't make much difference. Fighter pilots, on the other hand, had more control over their fate. They could disengage when they wanted to, or at least try to. Did it help them to hate? I would guess not. If you believe Tom Blackburn, CO of VF-17, combat was fun and exciting. Not scary, and no hatred, just fun, like Disneyland. Of course he was flying F4Us against the Japanese, not F4Fs, still I'm a bit skeptical... And then there was General Patton. He said the reason the US Army was doing so poorly against the Germans in North Africa was that our guys simply didn't hate the Germans enough. If you were a prisoner of the Japanese in WW-II, you could probably be excused for feeling a bit of hatred. Everyone's experience is different.

[fsafranek]

"Haters are our motivators" and/or hatred is a great motivator.

It seems to me that when you're out of bullets and still have the means to get out of there you do so. You do have one weapon left though and that is the gun the bullets are fired from or in this case, your aircraft. When I first watched the opening four minutes as presented in a talk on the film by the director it stopped just as they were both out of bullets and flying side by side. In Hollywood style, and probably the way most military aviators think, it would have been time to salute and fly off "to live and try another day". But I thought to myself, if you hate your opponent that much you do have one weapon left. But then the film stopped.

In the full version of course they both come to that same realization and used their aircraft, their only means of escape, in a jousting match with pistols. When the pistols were empty they could have been used as clubs but they were dropped in frustration.

Further up is a link to the director's discussion. I would encourage anyone who hasn't seen any of the film, and those who have only seen the whole thing, to watch it. It's pretty interesting.
:ernae: