It's like an episode of Ashes to Ashes in London ......

[AndyG43]

.... my name is Andy; I had an accident and woke up in 1982 ....

Well, that is what it feels like; a Conservative government in power and riots on the streets of London, sparked off by a police shooting - although it is now totally out of control. I'm just waiting for Cameron to declare war on Argentina. :-(

[stiz]

just low life chavs wanting an excuse to loot shops, i highly doubt 99% of em give a flying **** about the shooting :kilroy:

then again, same coulda happened in 82, i wouldnt know, my parents hadnt even met then! :icon_lol:

[Matt Wynn]

then again, same coulda happened in 82, i wouldnt know, my parents hadnt even met then! :icon_lol:

neither had mine :icon_lol: still.... i guess it could be worse.... :monkies: Edit: ok it got a tiny bit worse, minor issues in Birmingham, theft and vandalism mostly... how thats different from a normal day in Birmingham i don't know.....

[AndyG43]

Being an old git, I can remember the situation back then all too clearly.

I agree with your comment about the lowlife chavs Stiz, it was the same back then as well; and, yes, most of them could probably care less about the shooting - except ......

These kids have lost faith in the authorities; they think nobody cares about them, that everybody is out to get them, that they have no future - they don't care anymore. Their trust in the Met is at rock bottom (who haven't exactly covered themselves in glory over the past couple of years) so it's no surprise to me that it has kicked off again. And the politicians and the Police are trotting out the same platitudes they did 30 years ago.

Very sad, and deeply depressing.

[Matt Wynn]

now theres an idea! load up troop ships full of chavs, drop them off in argentina... give it 3 years the place'd be like Faliraki or Ayia Napa or Ibiza or Benidorm or.... ok i could continue! my response... "Hello Olympic Airways? yeah 1 for Thessaloniki.... when? oh.... when can you fit me in?" :icon_lol:

still, at least the Argies are playing reasonably nicely, no offense meant to any Argentinians, thats history :salute:

[stiz]

These kids have lost faith in the authorities; they think nobody cares about them, that everybody is out to get them, that they have no future - they don't care anymore. Their trust in the Met is at rock bottom (who haven't exactly covered themselves in glory over the past couple of years) so it's no surprise to me that it has kicked off again. And the politicians and the Police are trotting out the same platitudes they did 30 years ago.


yea its no suprise its kicked off but its still no excuse for looting, its not exactly like their robbing food stores for food, its all electronics and sports clothes shops, all "trendy" stuff, fed up with things and want people to help you? go smash parliment buildings up, that might do something, burning down the local aldis, peoples homes and looting jjb sports? well ... that'll get you as far as every riot before em .. absolutly no where, well, cept the nick of course.

[stuartcox]

I just came back from London via Victoria Station.
All seems calm, apart from the high police presence. I was only in Westminster though, not in the other affected areas.

[AndyG43]

yea its no suprise its kicked off but its still no excuse for looting, its not exactly like their robbing food stores for food, its all electronics and sports clothes shops, all "trendy" stuff, fed up with things and want people to help you? go smash parliment buildings up, that might do something, burning down the local aldis, peoples homes and looting jjb sports? well ... that'll get you as far as every riot before em .. absolutly no where, well, cept the nick of course.

Like I said, deeply depressing.

[stuartcox]

On a lighter note:
Times are getting tough in Britain....

45448

[AndyG43]

Send him in to Peckham - one look at him would stop the rioting!!

[HouseHobbit]

I am very sorry to see this , It is such a pity.
I do feel saddened by all of this..
Needless actions, that do no good for anyone..

[Willy]

When people start rioting and looting like that, they end up doing themselves more harm than good.

Hopefully, it will settle down soon.

[bobmay]

Just to keep this in perspective, London is one of the biggest cities in the world with 7.8 million population. The "riots" involve a few hundred young people on 4 or 5 street corners.
The news media are having a field day, it's a good story for them with spectacular pictures of a furniture store burning, and the politicians are using it as another excuse to have a poke at each other.

[stiz]

and the politicians are using it as another excuse to have a poke at each other.

whilst at the same time, cutting the amount of police and hopeing no one will notice :kilroy:

[AndyG43]

An interesting article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-london-riots)- definitely food for thought.

[stiz]

what a load of twoddle ... seriosly, just because your "deprived" (how many will have iphones, sky supscription, free houseing, benifits etc) doesnt give you the right to burn down someone else livelyhood/home, i'm not rich, dont live in a fancy house or fancy flat, no steady job and i'm certainly not happy about how the country or the local area is being run, but that doesnt mean i'm going to go into town and smash the local currys up over it and take a nice wide screen TV whilst i'm at it!

You make your own luck, dont wanna get shot by the police? dont carry a gun, even if its hidden in a sock. Dont want to live in a filthy house .. then rudy clean it, bin collections free! Also if they hate liveing here so much i'm sure if you went through all of em they'd be a fair people customs would be intrested in haveing a word with. Sterotypeing? yes .. but lets face it, its prolly true.

[brad kaste]

I always thought London Bobbies didn't carry (or allowed) side arms. If someone could correct this for me. Thanks.

[Tako_Kichi]

That certainly used to be the case and in many cases still is but with the increase of gun crime I believe every police force in the UK maintains an 'armed response unit' (or several in the larger cities). These units do carry weapons (sidearms and/or rifles) although they are usually kept inside a vehicle until required.

Police units tasked to airports and seaports carry guns 24/7 as far as I remember. It's been 18 years since I was last in the UK but I remember finding it a shock to see British police officers carrying assault rifles in plain view at the airport.

[Matt Wynn]

Larry, you are right, the ARU's (Armed Response Units, in Londons case CO/SO19 are more than likely on high readiness, weapons usually Glock series 17 or 26(MET/London Police) pistol, and Heckler & Koch MP7, MP5, G36 maybe even a Steyr AUG or two, maybe even a smattering of G3KA4's or HK417 for longer range) are kept out of sight unless shots are fired, and even then they cannot fire unless fired upon OR cleared to if there is immediate threat to life, 9 times out of 10 they'd resort to the darned tasers, but NOT if the other person has a firearm, as that jolt hits you, you spasm and you have an ND (Negligent Discharge), it sucks, i'm all for bobbies carrying their good ole' revolvers/sidearms, same as i'm not opposed to more CCTV, any Int is good Int until proved otherwise... back on topic...

i'm with Stiz, as stereotypical as it sounds there will no doubt be individuals who may ping the radars of HM Customs, darn nanny state getting protective again...

[CWOJackson]

Here's a Google Maps.UK page with none locations of disturbances.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f 7&msa=0&ll=51.558503,-0.055275&spn=0.114195,0.298691

Details for each posted area can be found on the side.

[Naismith]

And it took only 3 days for your PM to realise he better make some sort of leadership appearance and abandon his vacation. The London mayor remains in the USA on vacation, and the Met police have no leadership, the Commisioner and his deputy having resigned in the wake of the NOTW scandal. What is wrong with this picture?
I'm so glad I left.....

[Piglet]

the increase of gun crime
And the UK has gun control laws that U.S. Leftists can only dream of......
Hmmm...

[wombat666]

QUOTE=Piglet;And the UK has gun control laws that U.S. Leftists can only dream of......Hmmm...QUOTE

QUOTE=Naismith;And it took only 3 days for your PM to realise he better make some sort of leadership appearance and abandon his vacation. The London mayor remains in the USA on vacation, and the Met police have no leadership, the Commisioner and his deputy having resigned in the wake of the NOTW scandal. What is wrong with this picture?I'm so glad I left.....QUOTE

It would be best for all concerned if the political input be kept at a sensible level.
Comparisons are odious, and try to place your comments in context.
The 'Police shooting victim' was (supposedly) a 'pharmaceutical supplies' merchant.
:kilroy:
Thank you for your co-operation.

[bennyfsx]

With respect I think we're looking at quite a serious problem here. We have a cadre of youths who have been delinquents for as long as they have been adolescents, thanks to appalling (or non-existent) parenting and a complete lack of drive or aspiration, which has itself been fuelled by a complete con of a schooling system that is only interested in inflating results, not actually educating people academically, let alone teaching them about responsibilities.

And now that delinquent cadre has just worked out that instead of hanging around in groups of six or seven to steal phones, bikes, etc., they can actually use social media to do it in groups of two hundred and get what they like. It's the same problem we've been ignoring for years, it just suddenly got bigger.

If that's right, the problem is serious because it is generational. Afraid to say that heavy-handed policing is probably needed in the short term to spoil the party, followed by some serious stints of community service with an extensive social rehabilitation element.

[AndyG43]

With respect I think we're looking at quite a serious problem here. We have a cadre of youths who have been delinquents for as long as they have been adolescents, thanks to appalling (or non-existent) parenting and a complete lack of drive or aspiration, which has itself been fuelled by a complete con of a schooling system that is only interested in inflating results, not actually educating people academically, let alone teaching them about responsibilities.

And now that delinquent cadre has just worked out that instead of hanging around in groups of six or seven to steal phones, bikes, etc., they can actually use social media to do it in groups of two hundred and get what they like. It's the same problem we've been ignoring for years, it just suddenly got bigger.

If that's right, the problem is serious because it is generational. Afraid to say that heavy-handed policing is probably needed in the short term to spoil the party, followed by some serious stints of community service with an extensive social rehabilitation element.

Well said Benny. Personally I don't think prison is the answer, it will just harden & institutionalise them further; community service however, clearing up the mess they have made, seems appropriate - publicly losing face in front of their mates will be sooo much more satisfying.

[Matt Wynn]

Well said Benny. Personally I don't think prison is the answer,.

Prison in the UK is a joke, inmates have TV, Radio, SKY Tv, Playstations, XBox', games... DVD's......... it's meant to teach a lesson, not be a sodding holiday camp. not even i have a PS3, Xbox360 or TV currently... they've got it easy. i'm all for heavy handed policing. what Benny said couldn't have said it better, news this morning says Rogue elements have started heading further afield, Nottingham and even Liverpool now getting some scuffles... my verdict: stop the nanny state and health and safety B/S, crack out the rubber bullets, riot vans and other hard contact kit and get to work.... :a1451:

they say it's about class? did half these kids even go to class to learn about class structure in society in modern day Britain? youth in Britain expects respect as a right not a privilege, i was always brought up, as were we all no doubt that respect is earned not given.... honestly, modern youth and their "i want it all, and i want it now" mentality, if you have it and they want it, they'll try taking it...

i'm gonna shut up before i get myself in trouble.....:kilroy::monkies:

[aeronca1]

Sadly, it seems to be a sign of the times. What, something happened? RIOT. What, we lose a sports match, RIOT. What, we lose the Stanley Cup (Canadian Hockey), RIOT. Any excuse these days......

[NX-74205]

The infuriating thing is that our police have their hands tied behind their back. Thanks to a certain ex-Government that took office in May '97, we now have to think more of the rioters human rights than we do bringing an end to the lawlessness.

The police are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they unleash the land-sharks and crack a few skulls they're called 'thugs in uniform', if they stand by and try to contain the situation without steaming in then they're called 'soft and ineffectual'. They just can't win!

Although tonight may be different, I think they'll be in for quite a shock if they try rioting again tonight.

[bennyfsx]

Apparently ORBX are now working on UKAnarchyFlow...

[Clarke123]

bin collections free!
Is it **** free! Have you seen your council tax bill lately? That's what it pays for, council services.

[stiz]

what i ment is that you dont have to pay every time you go to your bin!

[Clarke123]

what i ment is that you dont have to pay every time you go to your bin!
Yet.

[AndyG43]

Mods, can I request that this thread be closed please? I started it because I thought we might be able to have a reasoned conversation, but it has degenerated into the usual political point scoring - rather than respond to some of the comments maybe it is best to draw a line under it all?

I should have known better. Sorry. :kilroy:

[Clarke123]

Mods, can I request that this thread be closed please? I started it because I thought we might be able to have a reasoned conversation, but it has degenerated into the usual political point scoring - rather than respond to some of the comments maybe it is best to draw a line under it all?

I should have known better. Sorry. :kilroy:
Political point scoring? They're all at it. There's no difference between the major parties in this country. One picked up where the other left off. The policies instituted by both parties have led to this as they did in the 80's and will again in the future. No lessons will be learned

[Maarten -]

Well said Benny. Personally I don't think prison is the answer, it will just harden & institutionalise them further; community service however, clearing up the mess they have made, seems appropriate - publicly losing face in front of their mates will be sooo much more satisfying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErftICZdJkI

Even after having seen these images I think you are right, both of you. Prison (or worse) does not solve the problem. To me, confronting them with what they have done with other peoples lifes and their own lifes seems the only way to turn those who are wrecking their commuties into a positive attitude.

Things have gone terribly wrong and I'm afraid the generation that I belong to (many like me very idealistic in our younger years) has a lot to think of. Where did we go wrong teaching our children?!? :/

Cheers,
Maarten

[Roger]

Mods, can I request that this thread be closed please? I started it because I thought we might be able to have a reasoned conversation, but it has degenerated into the usual political point scoring - rather than respond to some of the comments maybe it is best to draw a line under it all?

I should have known better. Sorry. :kilroy:

Hi Andy,
I think you're right. All of us in England (hasn't touched Scotland or Wales yet - let's hope it doesn't!) will have thoughts on this issue and I bet most of them don't belong in a flightsim forum!