Giving critical feedback AKA me being politically incorrect

[greycap.raf]

If this thread gets reported and/or locked it tells a lot about the forum.

Lately I've managed to get both Tailwind and SLIP STREAM quite royally pissed off. The first because he said CFS3 works in Windows 7 just as well as it does in XP, I disagreed as the Nvidia specular shine is missing. Because it is and as the result the game doesn't work as well. The second because I disagreed about his idea of a P-51D with an engine critical altitude of 41.000 feet and unlimited WEP being "as it should be". Because it simply isn't. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but facts are facts and they override opinions in cases like those.

I've also noticed that just about nobody ever says anything negative about anything new being made. Well, it's nice that people like the new add-ons but I can't understand why absolutely everything is accepted. I've seen bombers that barely unstick in a clean configuration from a 2000m runway, fighters that stall and fall into the ground tail first in a tight low altitude turn, large all metal aircraft that weigh about the same as a Tiger Moth and turn like one too. They all got highly praised for their flight modelling. I've seen skins that have never even been close to an anti-aliased one and they got highly praised too.

Seriously people, being the only Thing X in the world admittedly means being the best Thing X in the world. It still doesn't mean that Thing X couldn't use quite a lot of improvement and if nobody calls the problems out they'll never get corrected. The downside is that from what I've learned even constructive criticism is shot down with implying that I'm doing things wrong, name calling and what not. No wonder there's ever very little criticism if the reception is like that.

From one of the best in the business: "I'm pretty sure these days I could send a RAF neon green and yellow camo scheme out, and they would all say it's perfect!"

And sadly I think he was right. Is it really the unwritten rule that only positive feedback is allowed or is there something else going on? This thread is very much of a poke in the beehive but hell, if we can't talk about things, why do we have a forum in the first place?

[popsaka]

...as long as we're courteous and not disgusting this is an open forum... and if you have sumpin to say to someone and you're not sure if its kosher, just use the PM facility...
...otherwise methinks we all come here for the fun of being double dyed in the wool WWII aircraft nuts strangely crazy for CFS3, and all stuff related to that... Be authentic, Be fearless, and play nice, kids :engel016:

[NachtPiloten]

Since I have made many a bomber recently I guess you are giving feedback to me about my flightmodels. I for one welcome the dialogue. I have wrestled with the limitations of the code in the game and making compromises when I make the flightmodels.

When reading about the performance of lets say German ww2 bombers, like the Do217 the performance figures stated are of suspect reliability. Take rate of climb for instance, usually those factory figures are with 20-30% fuel, no weapons, or bombs. Very optimistic in all respects (the numbers that is). Top speed the same, these planes usually did not perform as stated. So this leads me to my lumbering bombers. In CFS3 fuel is by default 100%, which was rarely the case in real missions. Look at trhe Lancaster load outs and you'll see the fuel settings for each bomb load.

Such as:

<Loadout MissionType="Fuel 58% + Strike" Name="(28)500lbs Bombs">
<Loadout MissionType="Strike" Name="Fuel 58% + (14)1000lbs Bombs">
<Loadout MissionType="Strike" Name="Fuel 66% + (9)1000lbs + (1)4000lbs Bombs"> or <Loadout MissionType="Strike" Name="Fuel 81% + (6)500lbs + (1)8000lbs Bombs">

So for my dear Do 217's which were grossly underpowered and overweight a 2000 meter runway was so to speak one that would make your a$% pucker. (You should read the diaries of Lancaster crews on bomb runs way to the east of Germany and how the landing gear often brushed against tree tops, but I digress). So where was I.....to get it right which I never suggested to do (my omission) the fuel load needs to be altered. Of the German planes that did carry extra fuel, many of them did fly from airbases with long runways. Also, in CFS3 the stock starting position is about 300 meters down the runway, so a 1400 meter runway is 1100 and so on. I am not saying that my flightmodels should or could be better/different (given my lack of expertise, I would say they need to be redone) but they are somewhat on the very difficult to fly side. That is why I made a set of airbases with the starting position at the ends of the runway which has helped.
You should see what I had to do to the flightmodels (propeller sect 511/512 in the airfile) to get the PBY and Sunderland to takeoff from the water!

I closing, I for one welcome feedback, for feedback is my friend and only can serve me to be more reflective and improve what I do.

So bring it on :jump: seriously, say what needs to be said, but do so in manner that is respectful, accurate, and intended to make what we have better (not saying you didn't, since I have not read those posts).

Boy, this is suppose to be a hobby bringing joy, and excitement to all......:icon_lol:

[swpierce]

Now THAT'S what I call one profound, well written, civilized reply and discussion.
Bravo, Nachtpiloten.
That's what makes this forum interesting.

[Mathias]

When reading about the performance of lets say German ww2 bombers, like the Do217 the performance figures stated are of suspect reliability. Take rate of climb for instance, usually those factory figures are with 20-30% fuel, no weapons, or bombs. Very optimistic in all respects (the numbers that is).
:

That's just plain wrong.
If you are talking factory promo broshures maybe( but those do not exist for bombers), but handbook data are usualy RLM data and those are always gathered with full fuel and "normal" armament.

[greycap.raf]

Since I have made many a bomber recently I guess you are giving feedback to me about my flightmodels. I for one welcome the dialogue. I have wrestled with the limitations of the code in the game and making compromises when I make the flightmodels.

[...]

I closing, I for one welcome feedback, for feedback is my friend and only can serve me to be more reflective and improve what I do.
That's the attitude. Now where's my thumbs up smiley... nah, going with this one instead. :applause: I can try quite a few things myself too if something needs solving as an "outsider" usually can spot something that the original maker hasn't even thought about.


Now THAT'S what I call one profound, well written, civilized reply and discussion.
So absolutely true. And as long as we all manage to speak the same language everyone benefits!

[loverboy1]

still love nach- lingo


So bring it on :jump:


makes me think of the dear old bush days ......lol

good one

[NachtPiloten]

That's just plain wrong.
If you are talking factory promo broshures maybe( but those do not exist for bombers), but handbook data are usualy RLM data and those are always gathered with full fuel and "normal" armament.

I should have been more clear, in my comments about unreliable performance data. However, if you read Brown's evaluation of the German planes he flew he states clearly that there are discrepancies between the handbook figures and what he experienced. While Brown may not have been objective in his reviews, his numbers do cause one to pause and reflect on the numbers.

Your turn .... an example of a bomber handbook would add to this discussion...

[Mathias]

I should have been more clear, in my comments about unreliable performance data. However, if you read Brown's evaluation of the German planes he flew he states clearly that there are discrepancies between the handbook figures and what he experienced. While Brown may not have been objective in his reviews, his numbers do cause one to pause and reflect on the numbers.

Your turn .... an example of a bomber handbook would add to this discussion...

There are reasons for that and that is in the case of evaluated enemy aircraft:
Lack of spare parts, spark plugs, "incompatible" fuel with an unfavourable aromatics mixture, being unfamiliar with the technology, battle damage.
It didn't happen all too often that Wrinkle got his hands on well served Luftwaffe aircraft, something he thoroughly avoids to mention.
The Handbook Data are as per my negligible experience accurate for a well served aircraft at the beginning of it's life span. If you know a bit how the data was gathered you would know that they did it usually under field conditions with up-armed aircraft, so no nonense manufacturer propaganda really.
Period Luftwaffe manuals can be purchased here btw:
http://www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de/

[NachtPiloten]

Thanks for the information. I have several of the handbooks for the Do 217,but not one that has the performance charts. Of the ones available, which handbook usually has performance data?

BTW this dialogue has been enjoyable, always good to learn something new or get clarification.

[Tailwind]

If this thread gets reported and/or locked it tells a lot about the forum.

Lately I've managed to get both Tailwind and SLIP STREAM quite royally pissed off. The first because he said CFS3 works in Windows 7 just as well as it does in XP, I disagreed as the Nvidia specular shine is missing.

First off I never said CFS3 works just as well in Win 7 as it does in XP. I said the the game runs well and defended that fact. And still do. I am not "pissed off". I disagreed with both you and cromwell hijacking the WIN 7 install fix thread saying things like CFS3 is a loss (cromwell) and that the graphics are old carpet (you). It got cluttered with off topic posts

I am doing my very best , as are others, to try and help keep this game alive and running. I feel the Win 7 install fix thread is generally helping a great deal in doing so as it has over 13,000 views and many comments regarding how this has helped people.

You have every right to discuss the short comings of the game if that is what you want to do. I think you just need a little insight as to what arena you should choose to express those ideas

TW

[middle]

As was said earlier in the thread, AS long as folks are discussing matters reasonably, then
a bit of contention is acceptable. It's ok to agree to disagree....mid

[popsaka]

...Ted and Mathias... great discussion... fascinating ...thanks

Ted, I'm going to be taking the G-7 and other similar high altitude heavy fighters up into the ''thin air'' and will report back about my adventure... :engel016:

[Tailwind]

As was said earlier in the thread, AS long as folks are discussing matters reasonably, then
a bit of contention is acceptable. It's ok to agree to disagree....mid

I should be more clear regarding my statement about finding a better arena. I meant starting a new thread on this forum like this one to have some lively debate or discussions and not posting it in an existing thread that will take it off topic

I did not mean he shouldn't post it at all as have no right to make such a statement

Cheers

TW

[flyer01]

I have tryed CFS3 ETO in Window 7 64 bit and it works.

The effects where not as good as in XP 32 bit.

That's why I put a duel parathion on the HD. XP32 bit and W-7 64 bit.

If you get Windows 7 64 bit and still have XP on your PC. As long as you have your XP product key.

flyer01

[ndicki]

From one of the best in the business: "I'm pretty sure these days I could send a RAF neon green and yellow camo scheme out, and they would all say it's perfect!"



That wasn't me, but I certainly second it. In fact, I did send out a purple-with-pink-spots one a while ago, and it got rapturous applause...

[hairyspin]

... I did send out a purple-with-pink-spots one a while ago, and it got rapturous applause...

And some haven't forgiven you for that yet! :icon_lol: Term nearly finished Nigel? :wavey:

[richcreator]

I have tryed CFS3 ETO in Window 7 64 bit and it works.

The effects where not as good as in XP 32 bit.

That's why I put a duel parathion on the HD. XP32 bit and W-7 64 bit.

If you get Windows 7 64 bit and still have XP on your PC. As long as you have your XP product key.

flyer01

I don't understand how a motherboard/main board handles both 32 bit and 64 bit together.
Is it that the MB is set up for 64 bit and also compatable for 32 bit?

[HouseHobbit]

And some haven't forgiven you for that yet! :icon_lol: Term nearly finished Nigel? :wavey:

God Bless you Nigel.. Love my Hobbit Special Purple and pink polka dotted Bf 109..
Too cool..
I am building like a MAD Crazy Hobbit right now..
Weather has slowed me today but I am on a roll here..:jeep0a:

[ndicki]

And some haven't forgiven you for that yet! :icon_lol: Term nearly finished Nigel? :wavey:

Term finished. A few - literally only a few compared to previous years - exam papers to do, and that's that. It's a surprisingly quiet year-end this year. Meanwhile, I need to cut down an orchard that's got out of control, fight the French bureaucracy about their playing political games with my daughter's future, kill my neighbour, his dogs and his cockerels, and then I can relax a bit. Bliss...

[flyer01]

I don't understand how a motherboard/main board handles both 32 bit and 64 bit together.
Is it that the MB is set up for 64 bit and also compatable for 32 bit?

Your right. If your CPU is a 64 bit then 8,16, and 32 will work. With the right OS.

[hairyspin]

... I need to cut down an orchard that's got out of control, fight the French bureaucracy about their playing political games with my daughter's future, kill my neighbour, his dogs and his cockerels, and then I can relax a bit. Bliss...

You might make a video diary of this. Less like M. Dickinson's Holiday, more The Paris Chainsaw Massacre. Ah, the sound of power tools in the morning! :icon_lol:

[Mathias]

You might make a video diary of this. Less like M. Dickinson's Holiday, more The Paris Chainsaw Massacre. Ah, the sound of power tools in the morning! :icon_lol:

Yeah Nigel, take care of a good documentation when you come around to deal with your Neighbour! :icon_lol:

[ndicki]

Yes, it's illegal to use power tools in the village before 0700Hrs, so I'll have time to simmer down and regain control before I chainsaw his dogs' legs off, crucify him, give his wife to the Lybians, sell his children and roast his cockerels alive with a blow torch. Seriously, though, if anyone knows a way of dealing with an unsociable, noisy chav that doesn't involve violence sooner or later...

[ndicki]

I forgot burning his house to the ground and salting his land. Can't be too careful...

[brundu841]

Finally nigel! a little sweetness and diplomacy! do not forget the joyful colors in concrete in the terrace
enfin nigel!! un peu de douceur et de diplomatie! n'oublie pas de les coulers dans le beton sous la terasse.

[flyer01]

Finally nigel! a little sweetness and diplomacy! do not forget the joyful colors in concrete in the terrace
enfin nigel!! un peu de douceur et de diplomatie! n'oublie pas de les coulers dans le beton sous la terasse.

Post of the year!+10000000000000:applause::applause::applause: :applause::applause:

I should live by this myself.

[ndicki]

Concreting the patio makes it annoyingly difficult to bury the next candidate. Better just to spread a bit of gravel around.