Tweet

[jojohnson9]

I put my old T-37 "Tweet" into FSX. I remember that it was not the easiest plane to start the engines. I have followed the engine start procedures in the manual to the letter. I cannot get engines started. The plane looks good and the gauges seem to work in FSX. Can anyone help with this one?

[falcon409]

I finally gave up on it after a week of trying various things that others suggested. I believe someone figured it out but the workaround also causes some of the gauges to become inop.

[Warrant]

I finally gave up on it after a week of trying various things that others suggested. I believe someone figured it out but the workaround also causes some of the gauges to become inop.

Got the bird fully working in FSX (and posted about that about a year ago or so) but i'm suffering a system crash on my FS PC right now. Will get back on that later.

[jojohnson9]

Got the bird fully working in FSX (and posted about that about a year ago or so) but i'm suffering a system crash on my FS PC right now. Will get back on that later.

Would really appreciate it.

[jojohnson9]

I finally gave up on it after a week of trying various things that others suggested. I believe someone figured it out but the workaround also causes some of the gauges to become inop.

I found your post from last February (?) and it looks hopeless. It does look like it may be a panel problem. I think I'll fool around with it...see if it's a gauge causing no starts. Maybe I'll get lucky.

[Warrant]

As mentioned: Stuff works normal for me.
First four screenies to prove just that:

1: cold and dark
2: Stuff switched on
3: Engines starting (crtl E, but procedures according checklist work as well)
4: Engines running and start taxi



39582 39585 39584 39583

[Warrant]

This is what my panel file looks like:

39586

And this is what the panel.cfg looks like (remember, i have T-37v20 installed):

// FS2004 panel configuration file
// version 1.01 update 1
[Window Titles]
Window00=T-37B
Window01=GPS_Panel
Window02=Aux Radio Stack
Window03=Engine Control Panel
Window04=Credits
Window05=Autopilot
Window06=Small Nav Panel
Window07=TOLD
Window08=TrngPanel
Window09=simicons

[VIEWS]
VIEW_FORWARD_WINDOWS=0,TrngPanel,100,51,140,150,90 ,80,GPS_Panel,83
VIEW_FORWARD_ZOOM=0.7
VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=6.0, 0.0, 0.0
VIEW_FORWARD_RIGHT_ZOOM=0.7
VIEW_RIGHT_ZOOM=0.7
VIEW_REAR_RIGHT_ZOOM=0.7
VIEW_REAR_ZOOM=0.7
VIEW_REAR_LEFT_ZOOM=0.7
VIEW_LEFT_ZOOM=0.7
VIEW_FORWARD_LEFT_ZOOM=0.7

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window00]
file=hMainPanelv2.8.bmp
file_1024=hMainPanelv2.8.bmp
size_mm=610
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=7
visible=1
ident=0
render_3d_window=0
window_size= 1.000, 1.000
window_pos= 0.000, 0.000
gauge00=T37b_c9!Aircraft Master, 120,2,10,10
gauge01=T37bx9!T37 Calcs, 140,2,10,10
gauge02=T37bx9!Compass, 562,47,46,53
gauge03=T37bx9!Airspeed, 121,280,87,91
gauge04=T37bx9!Altimeter, 118,369,88,90
gauge05=T37bx9!Boost Pump Light, 234,258,16,16
gauge06=T37bx9!Canopy Unlock Light, 367,258,16,16
gauge07=T37bx9!Clock, 392,278,47,46
gauge08=T37bx9!Engine Ice Light, 410,258,16,16
gauge09=T37bx9!Flaps, 78,344,41,41
gauge10=T37bx9!Fuel Gauge Switch Panel, 539,398,75,53
gauge11=T37bx9!Fuel Qty Gauge, 542,287,70,95
gauge12=T37bx9!Fuel Shutoff, 466,214,135,44
gauge13=T37bx9!G Meter, 583,260,27,29
gauge14=T37bx9!Gear Indicator, 74, 317 ,50,28
gauge15=T37bx9!Hydraulic Pressure, 437,215,28,42
gauge16=T37bx9!Inclinometer, 74,412,47,45
gauge17=T37bx9!J2 Compass, 374,366,86,91
gauge18=T37bx9!Left EGT, 457,303,47,43
gauge19=T37bx9!Left Fuel Flow, 457,343,41,44
gauge20=T37bx9!Left Oil Press, 457,386,42,45
gauge21=T37bx9!Left RPM, 455,261,48,44
gauge22=T37bx9!Right EGT, 499,304,45,41
gauge23=T37bx9!Right Fuel Flow, 498,344,41,44
gauge24=T37bx9!Right Oil Press, 498,386,42,45
gauge25=T37bx9!Right RPM, 498,261,49,44
gauge26=T37bx9!RMI, 207,276,83,89
gauge27=T37bx9!TO Trim Light, 273,258,16,16
gauge28=T37bx9!Trim, 0,334,16,51
gauge29=T37bx9!Vertical Speed, 290,363,87,95
gauge30=T37bx9!Tacan, 376,325,78,37
gauge31=T37bx9!Attitude, 286,275,100,101
gauge32=T37b_c9!Gear warning, 94,289,23,24
gauge33=T37bx9!Gear Handle, 28,323,46,135
gauge34=T37bx9!LeftHornSilence, 51,337,14,16
gauge35=T37bx9!Speed brake, 105,279,13,10
gauge36=T37bx9!OBI, 199,361,98,96
gauge37=T37bx9!Fuel Grav Lamp, 594,316,14,14
gauge38=T37bx9!Fuel Low Lamp, 544,316,14,14
gauge39=T37bx9!LL Switch, 82,384,27,26
gauge40=T37bx9!Right Load Meter, 499,431,38,34
gauge41=T37bx9!SimRate, 437,297,14,6
gauge42=T37bx9!Left Load Meter, 458,432,38,34
gauge43=T37bx9!Compass Slaving, 302,254,50,18
gauge44=T37bx9!Control Surfaces, 0,426,25,33
gauge45=t37b_c9!Engine Start, 290,363,10,10
gauge46=T37bx9!Sound Control, 1,1,10,10

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window01]
size_mm=456,378
window_size=0.5
position=8
BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0
VISIBLE=0
ident=GPS_PANEL
gauge00=fs9gps!gps_500, 0,0

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window02]
file=radio_stack.bmp
size_mm=300,600
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=0
ident=100
window_size= 0.230, 0.520
pixel_size=300,600
window_pos= 0.510, 0.200
gauge00=T37bx9!IFF, 69,151,229,71
gauge01=T37bx9!V_UHF Comm, 66,294,233,61
gauge02=T37bx9!Nav_Tacan, 67,420,232,107
gauge03=T37bx9!G Meter, -47,148,110,114
gauge04=T37bx9!Hide Window3, 279,0,21,21

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window03]
file=engine_panel.bmp
file_1024=engine_panel.bmp
size_mm=610
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=0
ident=51
window_size= 1.000, 0.190
window_pos= 0.000, 0.820
gauge00=T37bx9!Battery Master Switch, 471,31,18,33
gauge01=T37bx9!Beacon Lights, 130,3,23,61
gauge02=T37bx9!Boost Pump Switch, 281,7,18,48
gauge03=T37bx9!Left Jet Starter, 207,7,59,49
gauge04=T37bx9!Nav_Strobe Lights, 77,5,31,54
gauge05=T37bx9!Panel Lights, 52,14,23,49
gauge06=T37bx9!Pitot Heater, 590,21,19,38
gauge07=T37bx9!Right Jet Starter, 320,7,60,49
gauge08=T37bx9!RightHornSilence, 537,33,20,20
gauge09=T37bx9!LeftHornSilence, 8,22,18,20
gauge10=T37bx9!Left Generator Switch, 447,22,20,53
gauge11=T37bx9!Right Generator Switch, 491,22,20,53
gauge12=T37bx9!Invertor Switch, 392,12,25,49
gauge13=T37bx9!Hide Window4, 601,0,8,8

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window04]
file=credits.bmp
file_1024=credits.bmp
size_mm=550,367
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=1
ident=140
window_size= 1.000, 1.000
pixel_size=550,367
window_pos= 0.500, 0.500
gauge00=T37b_c9!Credit Strings, 2,155,205,52
gauge01=T37bx9!Hide Window5, 529,0,21,21
gauge02=T37bx9!VersionInfo, 2,205,192,24

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window05]
file=XP38Nav.BMP
size_mm= 240
position= 0
visible=0
ident=RADIO_STACK_PANEL
gauge00=Lear_45!Autopilot, 1, 1, 238
gauge01=Extra-300!Pitch-Trim, 84, 69, 23
gauge02=737-400!Nav GPS Switch, 85, 39, 19
gauge03=bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio Nav-Comm 1, 120, 38, 117
gauge04=737-400!RMI, 1, 38, 62
gauge05=bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio ADF, 120, 84, 117

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window06]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=100,18
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=1
ident=90
window_size= 0.140, 0.045
window_pos= 0.620, 0.460
gauge00=T37bx9!Nav Channel Indicator, 0,0,100,18

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window07]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=400,562
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=0
ident=80
window_size= 0.390, 0.732
pixel_size=400,562
window_pos= 0.610, 0.200
gauge00=T37bx9!TOLD Calc, 0,0,400,562
gauge01=T37bx9!Hide Window8, 379,0,21,21

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window08]
file=training_panel.bmp
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=499,186
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=0
ident=TrngPanel
window_size= 0.360, 0.190
window_pos= 0.040, 0.060
gauge00=T37b_c9!Training Panel, 476,150,10,10
gauge01=T37bx9!Trg Pnl, 1,28,498,161
gauge02=T37bx9!Hide Window2, 476,-2,25,25

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window09]
Background_color=255,255,250
size_mm=437,49
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=1
ident=83
window_size= 0.188, 0.032
window_pos= 0.250, 0.000
gauge00=T37bx9!Window 1, 10,2,45,45
gauge01=T37bx9!Window 2, 57,2,45,45
gauge02=T37bx9!Window 3, 104,2,45,45
gauge03=T37bx9!Window 4, 151,2,45,45
gauge04=T37bx9!Window 5, 198,2,45,45
gauge05=T37bx9!Window 6, 245,2,45,45
gauge06=T37bx9!Window 7, 292,2,45,45
gauge07=T37bx9!Window 8, 339,2,45,45
gauge08=T37bx9!Window 9, 386,2,45,45

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Vcockpit01]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=1024,1024
visible=0
pixel_size=4096,4096
texture=$tacan
gauge00=T37bx9!vcTacan, -405,-207,1800,2450


[8 Bit Colors]
color00=82,66,82
color01=165,156,173
color02=74,66,90
color03=24,24,41
color04=66,66,82
color05=57,57,66
color06=148,148,165
color07=140,140,156
color08=156,156,173
color09=173,173,189
color10=123,123,132
color11=165,165,173
color12=41,49,66
color13=74,82,99
color14=181,189,206
color15=99,107,123
color16=165,173,189
color17=198,206,222
color18=90,99,115
color19=189,198,214
color20=82,90,99
color21=33,41,49
color22=66,74,82
color23=107,115,123
color24=57,66,74
color25=189,198,206
color26=8,16,16
color27=66,74,74
color28=90,49,49
color29=74,66,66
color30=74,74,74
color31=66,66,66

Day=255,255,255
Night=100,5,5
Luminous=255,155,155
[Default View]
X=0
Y=0
SIZE_X=8191
SIZE_Y=3715


[COLOR=black]Hope this works :mixedsmi:

Survived the puter crash, glad i made a back up just a few days ago (pfew!)

[falcon409]

Warrant,
Are you using the desktop icon for initiating the Tweet or are you going right from the Aircraft Selection Menu inside FSX?

[Warrant]

Warrant,
Are you using the desktop icon for initiating the Tweet or are you going right from the Aircraft Selection Menu inside FSX?

Through the aircraft selection menu. Must say i have a non-default aircraft selected at start-up.

[Naismith]

Intrigued by this I reinstalled the Tweet, first into FS9 then dragged it across into FSX. Doesn`t seem as though there are files outside the aircraft which need moving. All the gauges are in the panel folder and the effects files are in my FSX anyway. Didn`t check for external sound files. I edited the on screen Icon to point to FSX and started it first time that way. I found that doing this caused FSX to start in a virgin state, i.e FSUIPC etc had to be re-integrated. The T-37 start fine using CTRL-E and flew beautifully. I noticed that one or gauges did not function however and there was a very slight canopy glass issue. I came out of FSX and restarted it in the regular way without using the on screen icon. It was as before, flew nice couple of gauges not working and there is an intake flap or something on the upper wings near the fuselage I could not get to retract.
An interesting thing happened though. When I went F10 to the 2D cockpit and then back to F9 3D cockpit, the engines cut out and nothing would start them again, but the gauges were working as per normal. With a bit of work by someone who knows what they are doing I am sure this bird could be made perfect again.

[hews500d]

I kept getting a message saying I had a pirated copy when I installed in both fs9 and fsx on my new pc. Have had no luck getting a response from the developer, so sadly, this one is gathering dust in the hangar.

Darrell

[falcon409]

Ok, just looked over what you have and what I just installed and aside from a P-38 panel which I don't have, I don't see any difference from the basic aircraft that many of us tried and failed to get to run. I'm going to try a few times to see if it will, but based on what I see, I'm not holding out any hope that this will be any more successful than the previous attempts.

I'll let you know in just a bit.:salute:

[Warrant]

It was as before, flew nice couple of gauges not working and there is an intake flap or something on the upper wings near the fuselage I could not get to retract.


Try crtl W (or the key you have designated for visor key).

[Warrant]

Just flown the bird again and noticed i do not have the panel loaded as i did a while ago Must have gone after a re-install of FSX a while ago. I need to get through stuff to find the originally modified panel file (had most of the gauges changed with payware Carenado gauges). Luckily i always make backups. When found i can give you fooks a heads up of what goes where, but you have to do the stuff yourselves (authors rights), if you have those payware birds as well. I remember many came from the T-34, and some from other Cessna's.

[jojohnson9]

Just flown the bird again and noticed i do not have the panel loaded as i did a while ago Must have gone after a re-install of FSX a while ago. I need to get through stuff to find the originally modified panel file (had most of the gauges changed with payware Carenado gauges). Luckily i always make backups. When found i can give you fooks a heads up of what goes where, but you have to do the stuff yourselves (authors rights), if you have those payware birds as well. I remember many came from the T-34, and some from other Cessna's.

Looking forward to the mods you made. I give up! I have been messing with it for eight hours straight (I'm retired). I can have engines with no gauges, or vice versa. Right now I have some very nice static display airplanes.

[falcon409]

Took off from Bien Hoa AB and flew southwest to Binh Thuy AB (stationed there on A-37's). In the last pic, look closely off my left wing and you'll see a 123 on final approach to Can Tho Army Base which was just down the highway from us. It was pretty cool to see that, kind of an added bonus all thanks to the Vietnam War Project.:salute:

[falcon409]

If anyone figures out how to correct the exterior canopy transparency, let me know. There is one texture named "parts" that has the glass texture, but adding an alpha only changes the interior of the glass, the exterior remains cloudy. Odd. . .

[Bone]

I believe there's some misinterpretation as to how well this plane ports over. I've had it in FSX for a long while and I like it, but: The engine guages don't work, the altimeter needle will spin (but the window that displays "1000's" of feet doesn't work), the VSI/VVI doesn't work, the attitude indicator has a red flag, the start switches don't work, and a number of other small things.

[falcon409]

I believe there's some misinterpretation as to how well this plane ports over. I've had it in FSX for a long while and I like it, but: The engine guages don't work, the altimeter needle will spin (but the window that displays "1000's" of feet doesn't work), the VSI/VVI doesn't work, the attitude indicator has a red flag, the start switches don't work, and a number of other small things.

I agree. Warrant seems to be the only one who has been successful in correcting these issues by swapping out all the offending gauges. I have become spoiled by FSPanel Studio and the ability to easily swap out gauges. The Tweet is different in that respect in that the VC has no option for that. It appears that the VC gauges are part of the mdl file and as such, not easily replaced.

[falcon409]

:bump::bump::bump:

[falcon409]

Keeping this one alive until Warrant can make it back in to give us some direction on swapping gauges and anything else he's done that we haven't figured out.

In the mean time: Things I did to enhance the Tweet's "In-Sim" appearance. . . .
Lightened the alpha on all external skins to about 10% gray (external was way too shiny and washed out looking)
Saved "all" textures to 32bit (hey, it couldn't hurt)
(Personal Pref. Here) Kept only the Texas liveries and the Camo
Darkened all the exterior skins for the Camo version by about 15%
(This one had no alpha, but was still too washed out for my taste).

[Naismith]

Hopefully this will get airborne in time but the prognosis os not great. I wonder if and when it happens, will there be any issues over publishing the changes? The author clearly has no interest in the a/c any more, he has a note on the website that states it is no longer for sale and the forum has been disabled. Flight 1 from what I can see no longer support it other than issuing renew keys, but I saw no mention of it on their website other from the search box which took me to the authors website.

[falcon409]

Hopefully this will get airborne in time but the prognosis os not great. I wonder if and when it happens, will there be any issues over publishing the changes? The author clearly has no interest in the a/c any more, he has a note on the website that states it is no longer for sale and the forum has been disabled. Flight 1 from what I can see no longer support it other than issuing renew keys, but I saw no mention of it on their website other from the search box which took me to the authors website.
The only thing I remember about the guys who came up with the Tweet was that it was originally developed to help them with UPT Training. One or both of them were going through Pilot Training in the AF and it was built to help them "off hours" to work on things they had done in the air during the day. Going back over procedures and maneuvers in the off hours was giving them extra time in a simulator that was invaluable. I also seem to remember that at least one of them intended to fly "Heavies" after graduation (C-5 or C-17). They could still be in the AF and flying those types would narrow down the number of bases they could be assigned to. Still, trying to track either of them down would be a pretty daunting task.

I'm not really concerned at all about releasing anything I've done, but I haven't done anything that anyone couldn't do on their own anyway, so my changes are nothing amazing. Warrant is the one I want to hear from since the gauges are the main sticking point. It appears that for the time being, "If" you are able to get the Tweet started, the cardinal rule is "Do not switch to the 2D panel "ever". If you do, the Tweet shuts down and it will not restart until you reload the airplane and restart it in VC mode. Stay out of the 2D.

[falcon409]

Just an update: Capt. Hernan Orellana was promoted to Major as of October of last year, so he's still in the system and I'll continue to see if I can locate a good e-mail or base for him.

[kilo delta]

Just an update: Capt. Hernan Orellana was promoted to Major as of October of last year, so he's still in the system and I'll continue to see if I can locate a good e-mail or base for him.

He's with the 99th FTS ...

http://www.randolph.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123257387

[Bone]

. .
Lightened the alpha on all external skins to about 10% gray (external was way too shiny and washed out looking)


It was way too shiny, almost looked like the inside of a pearl shell.

[Bone]

It appears that for the time being, "If" you are able to get the Tweet started, the cardinal rule is "Do not switch to the 2D panel "ever". If you do, the Tweet shuts down and it will not restart until you reload the airplane and restart it in VC mode. Stay out of the 2D.



I deleted every bit of the 2D panel stuff from the panel folder, and took care of that issue.

[falcon409]

I deleted every bit of the 2D panel stuff from the panel folder, and took care of that issue.
Yep, the obvious solution Bone. I'll be doing that at lunch. I'm also going to visit a local museum dedicated to the base I was stationed at back in the 60's. They have a T-37 there that I'm going to take close-ups of to replace some of the fuzzy areas on the VC.

[warchild]

::chuckles:; I am SO jealous of you folks.. I love the Tweet, but could never afford it and now its gone.. ::sigh:; oh well.. please do keep posting images and stories :)..
Pam

[falcon409]

He's with the 99th FTS ...

http://www.randolph.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123257387
Thanks e-mail has been sent. Hopefully I will get an answer.:salute:

[Bone]

Hey Ed, I realize it's the painters discretion on what work they'll do, but have you ever given thought to repainting that S. Vietnamese camo into a USAF scheme?

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj299/theBone11/0957655.jpg


Or, a European camo scheme?


http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj299/theBone11/0572364.jpg


Just thought I'd ask, no pressure whatsoever. :)

[falcon409]

Kinda gave it thought a few days ago, thinking about doing one of the Squadron I was attached to in Nam. What I need to do first though is do a detailed paint kit and then go from there. I am not at all adept at photoreal skinning so it would have to be hand painted.

Unless someone already has a paint kit (which I doubt, as I've never seen any repaints for the T-37), I'll start on mine straight away.:salute:

[kilo delta]

Unless someone already has a paint kit (which I doubt, as I've never seen any repaints for the T-37), I'll start on mine straight away.:salute:

PSD paintkit available here http://www.t37sim.com/repaints.htm :)

[falcon409]

Thanks, after installing, I think I'll continue with my own layered paint kit. I don't care for the way that one is done.:salute:

[falcon409]

:bump::bump::bump:

[Bone]

:bump::bump::bump:

Lol. Did you hit the wall with this one again?

[Prowler1111]

Patience is a virtue..with best regards from RAZBAM...:running:

Prowler

[warchild]

Prowler... God I love you guys.. Thanks :) :) ..
Pam

[falcon409]

Lol. Did you hit the wall with this one again?
Nope just keepin' it in the light until Warrant shows up and imparts his wisdom, lol.:salute:

[falcon409]

Patience is a virtue..with best regards from RAZBAM...:running:
Prowler
. . . . .am I missing something?

[warchild]

Nothing official. I'm simply reading into prowlers statement.. Its very much along the lines of "Yes Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus".

[kilo delta]

. . . . .am I missing something?

Looks like a cryptic clue that Razbam may be developing a Tweet :applause::icon_lol:

[Prowler1111]

Not really a Tweet..but a Dragonfly, and the basic mesh is already in 3ds MAX, with enough luck it may be available this year..

Prowler

[falcon409]

Ok, I'll continue to tweak the T-37 in the meantime and get some variations repainted once I'm done with the paint kit. "Hey Warrant. . . .where'd you go?":jump:

[Bone]

I know the VC guages are part of the model, but if someone could figure out the coordinates to "float" some replacement 2D guages over them, I think it may work. I couldn't figure out the Z axis coordinates.

[falcon409]

Still working the Paint Kit. Have some panel lines to research and add and rivet lines to line up so the sides, top and bottom all align correctly. I'm going to do a simple Greek AF Trainer first just to get my bearings and see how the finished product looks before I go hog wild with other liveries. I'm making a drive out to the Airport Museum tomorrow or Saturday to get a bunch of close ups of the decals, ground points, fuel caps. . . .maybe even some better shots of the gear door interiors and cockpit side panels and so on.:salute:

[Bone]

It's amazing no one has uploaded any paints for this model, considering how long ago it was released. What museum are you heading to? You live in North Texas, right?

[falcon409]

. . . . . .What museum are you heading to? You live in North Texas, right?
Right. . .it's North Texas Regional Airport (used to be Grayson County Airport_KGYI). In the 50's, 60's and early 70's it was Perrin AFB (I was there from 1968 til 1970), an Air Defense Command Base with F-102's, T-33's and T-37's. A group of Retiree's and locals got together and built a small Museum dedicated to the base and over the years it has grown quite a bit. About 7 or 8 years ago they acquired a T-37 from Sheppard AFB in Witchita Falls and it's now housed inside the museum. It's only about 10 minutes from my Apartment.:salute:

[falcon409]

WIP:Greek AF. . . . .

[Matt Wynn]

i knew HAF was somewhere i could smell it!..... looking great buddy, keep up the good work! you gonna do "ΜΥΣΤΡΑΣ" scheme while you're at the HAF birds pal? by the way www.haf.gr may be of some use for you, lots of photos and info there... :salute:

[Naismith]

i knew HAF was somewhere i could smell it!..... looking great buddy, keep up the good work! you gonna do "ΜΥΣΤΡΑΣ" scheme while you're at the HAF birds pal? by the way www.haf.gr (http://www.haf.gr) may be of some use for you, lots of photos and info there... :salute:

Never knew that HAF used these a/c. I was interested also to note how well Google translated the Greek. I only noticed the English button after I had done the googly thing.

[warchild]

This is most certainly a plane I will be looking forward too. That lil thing wasnt much bigger than a Cadillac, and kicked major butt.. It was reinforced stronger than the T-37 and used a more powerful engine making it a very unique and capable little plane..

[Matt Wynn]

I only noticed the English button after I had done the googly thing.

as did i and i've been going there for years, then again i can read and translate a lot of Greek :icon_lol: might not live there, but i was born there and am proud of my birth-nation... HAF used tweet for a while, heck HAF still uses the T-2 'Buckeye' alongside the T-6A Texan II as pilot trainers... great air force, great heritage, great aircraft and they're celebrating a centenary this year too if i recall, 1911-2011 :salute: