The Future Of CFS2, [Archive]

sc7500

May 11th, 2011, 08:22

( I'm replying to this with a 25 pound "Velcro Dog" attached to my arm, so please excuse any typos [Miss is quite scared of thunder, and we're having a doozy of a storm right now...] )

This has been bandied about seriously for several years - It's my opinion that anything created by an independent CFS enthusiast and shared freely IS "Open Source" unless otherwise noted in the Read_Me / EULA.

Not being a legal specialist, I can't speak to the repercussions if M$ chose to retaliate.... But *I* am all for re-engineering this simulation In Our Own Design.

Now - where's my ancient C+ manual.....? :applause:
SC
:kilroy:

Shessi

May 11th, 2011, 08:30

Hi AC,
I was wondering/waiting to see if anyone was going to reply to you.....I see no one has so I'll put my penny-worth in.

To be honest, although your idea would be great, it is not realistically do-able. There are freeware flightsims, there are paid for flightsims, and some people have started their own flightsims with all those good intentions and promises you hint at...but have fallen or failed (There was a Brit night airwarfare one, which was developed for some 4 years in the early to mid 2000's, so much was done, and then it just fizzled out, a great shame and a huge amount of hours wasted.).

It is so huge an idea, I don't know if you really grasp what would be needed. From the mind-boggling idea of writing the sim 'engine' :isadizzy:to drive it all, down to designing, building and skinning the aircraft.

I'm sure I'm like most people, who like an idea and enthusiasm, so why not learn to do some of this yourself. There are a lot of people to who have learnt aircraft design with FSDS and Gmax, to airport design and painting aircraft with Photoshop/Paintshop Pro/Gimp etc etc.
I think if you give something a go you will understand what your idea means, or maybe it will put you on the road to starting one yourself.....you never know!

Good luck!

Cheers

Shessi

I see SC has!

wolfi

May 11th, 2011, 09:39

just put FS2004 or FSx, CFS2 mission builder and CFS3 aircraft possibilities together in one sim and I will be one of the happiest people in the world. But for the first I would be happy with fs2004 mesh and all shore lines, - and important the autogen function.
Unfortunately it doesn't look like that anyone is working on a combat flight sim with a whole world and today's possibilities.
wolfi

Robert John

May 11th, 2011, 12:13

I beleve that the community are now using the simulator in ways that microsoft did not intend,ie adding gsl scenery.The best way to play although I am not a player yet but am going to take this up is through mission builders and many multi installs.
I think the errors and omissions although not ment purposely only comes to light after the release date and have never been corrected by micrsoft. The game engine is copyright and the code will never be released.It has been through hard work of a lot of members over the years that has keept the game alive.I have ask about snow in cfs2 and found ways around this, I think this was taken out at the end of development to save mbs and cost. The weather dll is not set up to have snow although in the cfs2 read me it says we can have snow.Hopefuly we can get developers to correct the dlls or get things working by rewriting dlls or other ways as the next game users will expect more like combat fsx.
As computers became fast more and more is being done.
YOU CANT MAKE A SILK PURSE OUT OF A SOWS EAR but I like this sows ear.

tonybones2112

May 11th, 2011, 14:04

I agree with Ali, I've been preaching this since the start of my involvement with CFS2. The sim is just not going away, and it would be a big boost for M$'s public relations to just release it as abandoneware. Copyright issues may be resolved by merely writing the program to accept all the "aftermarket" planes, and all other add-ons.:salute:

Bones

Talon

May 11th, 2011, 14:52

This kind of thread comes out at least twice a year and always by people who can't do the work to make it happen. Even some of the people that want it do nothing for the sim and make all kinds of excuses why they can't.

How many people do you think in this forum could do the job? How much time do you think it would take?

The one person who took the game apart and knows the ins and outs of it is no longer part of SOH. He has told me there is alot of incomplete parts to it.There are files that will make the effects much better and another file that would improve the AI ( this doesn't work because game is incomplete ).

Today most people just want to fly the game and let others do the work. The old masters are gone that learned how it works and gave tips on how to improve it. Alot of that knowledge has been lost with the SOH crashes and the loss of Netwings.

Ian Astill

May 11th, 2011, 15:06

Hal on their yessir!!

No need to be quite so scathing there. I'll be the first to admit that I haven't exactly contributed anything to the game. The work that people do here isn't exactly easy and some people just don't have the time to learn the skills required or implement them (I'd love to be mission building and learning to make planes but I have a degree to think about)

I don't think there's anything wrong with voicing out ideas like this, and I for one think that contacting Microsoft is not a bad idea at all and whilst it may not lead to a complete redesign it might lead to some new developments

You'll certainly get further with an optimistic attitude rather than a defeatist one

Talon

May 11th, 2011, 15:42

Ian,

I've been around this sim since it came out and part of SOH since it started.I probably forgot more about CFS2 then most in here know. These threads have been coming out now for years. There's alot of talk but when it comes down to it no one can do anything about it. MS is not going to give anything away because parts of it are used for some of their other sims. Even some of the Aces Team have been in the SOH forums and can't help with it.

I was part of a team that was going to get everything together to make things easier for the users. This included - up to date scenery,planes,ships Missions and so forth. Withing a few months noone was interested anymore because it was such a big job.

MS was asked about the code and said NO.

Shadow Wolf 07

May 11th, 2011, 15:43

Sounds like you folks are asking for an IL2 1946 type game with a world map and a cfs2 style mission builder... it ain't gonna happen. Get em Talon! :applause:

Ian Astill

May 11th, 2011, 16:06

bearcat241

May 11th, 2011, 16:07

Collin

May 11th, 2011, 17:44

...and around :mixedsmi:...and around :mixedsmi:...and around she goes :icon_lol:

You know, this topic is becoming a lot like Haley's Comet around here...you can almost predict its next sighting :icon_lol:

Hahahahaha:applause:

Ok BC, can ya leash the Wolf and nail that bit of Hawaiian seaweed to his mast to dry out?

Guys.
We have the problem of copyright with MS, but they also have the same problem. There have been so many different addons to the sim, that its a nightmare to try to improve it properly.
Perhaps a brand new gaming engine could be released which you build upon with different addons to your own flavour.....(just a personal thought).

regards Collin:ernae:

Cody Coyote

May 11th, 2011, 18:10

Despite the fact this discussion keeps turning up like a bad penny, from a legal standpoint, I don't think there would be a problem if you took the approach that the Over Flanders Fields (OFF) crew did. They created an excellent WWI flight sim that is an addon to CFS3. Their work has pushed the envelope of what can be done with CFS3, greatly improving it in many respects, but avoided any copyright issues. They even charge for their latest version and don't run afoul of MS. So, if your "rewrite" is basically a super addon, I think you are OK.

You would need to identify what you want to do and who your target audience is. Are you talking about a free super addon as I described above or a commercial product. Either way it would be a lot of work for little return. And, as mentioned in earlier posts, who would do it? Although we are still seeing new members join here, new addons, and new websites popping up, I suspect in sheer numbers we do not have a huge following. A faithful one, but probably not large enough to support a commercial endeavor.

Don't get me wrong, some of us have been flying CFS2 for over ten years and think it's the finest WWII flight sim out there; certainly the most flexible and open to modification. In fact, that is probably why it has managed to sustain interest over all these years; just about the time you think you've seen everything it can do, someone comes up with yet more great stuff. The problem I do see is in the age and overall design of CFS2 compared to the current state-of-the-art in flight sims. Newer sims like Rise of Flight, Wings of Prey, and Cliffs of Dover have almost movie quality graphics. Maybe those sims aren't as open to modification as CFS2, but they have tremendous appeal to new simmers brought up in a world of CGI. I think anything done along the lines that you describe is really preaching to the choir and would appeal only to existing hard-core CFS2 fans. Maybe not worth the effort.

Rather than a "rewrite", if something was going to be done I'd like to see someone take the Best Of The Best of the existing addons and combine them into individual all encompassing downloads, one each for the ETO, MTO, and PTO. A player (new or old) could download a single file containing all of the best scenery, airfields, planes, ships, effects, campaigns, etc. that are already out there and instantly have a complete theater of operation. Of course whenever you talk about what's "best" you're being very subjective. Perhaps a small group rather than a single individual would be the best way to decide. But again, who? The biggest advantage to this I think is that it could be accomplished in a relatively short period of time. A rewrite would take years. By then CFS2 may be 15 years old or older and realistically there will be very few remaining simmers to have justified the effort.

Just my two cents...

Jagdflieger

May 11th, 2011, 19:26

PomBee

May 12th, 2011, 03:25

You know I don't see a thing wrong with revisiting the topic. In fact, it is always good to review the state of the art and as you can see, some valid ideas have been presented. Every year we have new membership and discussions like this keep it interesting and informative for those who recently discovered or rediscovered the Senior Sim. If a veteran can forcast the disposition or conclusion, then perhaps some constructive guidance would help. You never know what may come from new blood and ideas.

Speaking of new ideas, we have several new contributers and doers adding to the library constantly and it is most appreciated.

I have to agree with Jagd. It's always worth revisiting a topic like this, even if the result is the same as the last time, i.e. the man at MS, he say "No", therefore we're porked. There's always the chance that someone has made a breakthrough in some area. I know that I haven't got the skills to do anything other than resprays of other people work, and probably never will have, but there are a lot of very smart folk out there who might yet surprise us. I'd love to be able to find a way to make guided air-to-air weapons actually track their targets, but I know that I wouldn't get very far as others much more skilled than I have already tried. Discussions like this are good for the health of the Senior Sim.

Just my opinion, of course. I could be talking c*&p!!!!

Cheers,

PomBee.:ernae:

Ghostrider

May 12th, 2011, 07:17

I think this:
Rather than a "rewrite", if something was going to be done I'd like to see someone take the Best Of The Best of the existing addons and combine them into individual all encompassing downloads, one each for the ETO, MTO, and PTO. A player (new or old) could download a single file containing all of the best scenery, airfields, planes, ships, effects, campaigns, etc. that are already out there and instantly have a complete theater of operation. Of course whenever you talk about what's "best" you're being very subjective. Perhaps a small group rather than a single individual would be the best way to decide. But again, who? The biggest advantage to this I think is that it could be accomplished in a relatively short period of time. A rewrite would take years. By then CFS2 may be 15 years old or older and realistically there will be very few remaining simmers to have justified the effort.

Is the most realistic and potentially workable scenario. The hard part becomes deciding who is willing and able to decide what gets included in each theater, and do the work of compiling it all. As much as I'd like to, in no way, shape, or form do I have that kind of time to put into CFS2. I have a busy profession, marriage, family, and other hobbies. If some folks have more time for CFS2, do, that's great. I think this would be a labor of love. I don't think there's any money to made, for reasons which have already been stated. (Copyright, potential market). Just MHO. I wonder how many of us "faithful" are going to redo all of our long-term installations for someone else's idea of a "canned" PTO install, for example.

Stratobat

May 12th, 2011, 08:08

If you are going to look at upgrading CFS 2 then you need to start with the stock game first. Leave out the other theaters, their respective aircraft and scenery and focus primarily on a package that will address the ground textures and scenery, airbases, aircraft and other less than visible components ad infinitum.

This would serve two purposes... The first is that you create a patch for the default game to bring it up to modern standards and the second is that it serves as a sounding board for any future development in this regard.

If you start aiming too high you're going to end up with something that is both protracted and convoluted which will in turn make future development problematic. Keep it simple, keep it small and keep it on track. Have a defined goal.

Regards,
Stratobat

Kofschip

May 12th, 2011, 09:23

I love CFS2 as it is right now, sometimes I play with IL2-1946, but CFS2 can get me anywhere I want to "fight". I guess my computer and I are getting too old to change.:icon_lol:

Talon

May 12th, 2011, 10:03

In the CFS2 forum there are 2 sub forums,one for PHP2 and the other is SOH CFS2 Overhaul. The Overhaul forum has been around for about 5 years. When it first started I was a member of the team ( I still am as I can still get into it ). The job of the team was to put together the best of CFS2,package it and make an easy install for everyone. The only problem was everyone wanted something different for the package. Now remember you have people who like the ETO,PTO,MTO,CBI and so on. So as you can imagine no solution was ever found as to what to add. After awhile there was no more discussions and some team members disappeared.

There has been some activity in the overhaul forum again lately and hopefully they get things started again. Alot has come out since the forum was first started.

I think the main thing to do is 1 Theater at a time. The scenery and air data file would be the basic things for it as most people seem to have the most trouble with that.This should include all the bases in the theater. Another thing that should be included are the bombs that will be used in that theater.

Planes-NO except where the site they were on is no more
Missions-NO
Ships-NO except maybe some hard to find ships or where the site they were on is no more.

Robert John

May 12th, 2011, 10:47

I agree with Stratobat

If you are going to look at upgrading CFS 2 then you need to start with the stock game first. Leave out the other theaters, their respective aircraft and scenery and focus primarily on a package that will address the ground textures and scenery, airbases, aircraft and other less than visible components ad infinitum.

This would serve two purposes... The first is that you create a patch for the default game to bring it up to modern standards and the second is that it serves as a sounding board for any future development in this regard.

If you start aiming too high you're going to end up with something that is both protracted and convoluted which will in turn make future development problematic. Keep it simple, keep it small and keep it on track. Have a defined goal.
Repair the broken dlls.
Tutorials on the best way to play the game.
I am looking in to repairing the waether dll. It is incompleate. the snow was
disconnected so it will not work.
In the stock game do you see snow ground textures, No. in the read me files do it say you can have snow, yes. Why you may ask there is no snow. Well I think,
Due to the processing speed of computers at the time of release, I fill they realised they had to save mb, for saving load up time and fps during play time.It is only now we can expand this game with our faster computers and references on the net to break in to dlls and repair them for our own use and to share with our community and for no profit.

Ali Cat

May 12th, 2011, 13:01

I don’t have time this evening to draft a proper response which the nature of this thread demands. There are a few items, however, that I am comfortably with dashing off now.

I wish I had written my initial post just a bit more carefully. Perhaps the title should have been something like "The Holy Grail – Well I Can Dream Can’t I?" Also, the first line should have started with "I wish … " rather than "We should … ".

I give my complements to all those who have responded. The replies have been polite, professional, enthusiastic, well informed … I could go on and on. And all from a post that a reply of "Ali Cat – are you nuts?" would have been well taken by me.

I have recently contacted an old friend of mine. He is an ace "c" coder (among other things) of some world renown. The reason I contacted him is that for the "Your First Gauge" tutorial I have been promising I want an open source compiler. I have ideas, yes, but he knows. We have since spoken briefly. I have several other broad questions for him but I have added to this list what is involved in initiating a substantial open source project. I would be happy to share his response here if any are interested.
　

Sam aka: "Ali Cat"

simonu

May 12th, 2011, 16:24

Well I'm glad to see the crew have successfully self moderated whilst I wasn't looking. Cheers fellas.
I would be glad to hear what your buddy says Ali Cat. For open source compilers. Will python do http://www.python.org/download/windows/

Talon

May 12th, 2011, 16:26

I can appreciate what you're saying but there is still need to adopt the tone you did in saying it

Not to worry Ian,

I'll say no more on the subject.

bobhegf

May 12th, 2011, 18:10

I can understand why Talon and some of the other old hands feel the way they do. I to am an old hand to CFS2 and was here from the start. I have seen people come and people go and some return just to leave again and some to stay.I have seen new people come and go as well.Everytime we get a new group of people it is the same thing lets improve the sim.Then they see just how much work it will be and you never here anything else from them. The point is you have got to be dedicated to getting the work done if not don`t start.What some of the old hands are saying is don`t just talk the talk be ready to walk the walk for what ever time it is going to take to get the job done.

The 1st thing is to find severial people that know C++ like the back of there hand.The next step is to make sure that they are on board for the long trip and then we can decide what we want done and where to start.For those of us that are like myself who are lucky enough to just be able to turn on a pc with out messing things up well we can give them ideas on what we would like done and even come up with a few work arounds.We can all help by posting what has been done and needs to be done.

Shessi

May 13th, 2011, 00:36

Hi Sam,
I see a little clearer where you're coming from. Maybe rather than thinking BIG, i.e. a whole re-write, why not make a few useful changes to the sim. Such as the day colour of the sky, the start height for QC, a choice of snow in the weather selection (mentioned already) or AI characteristics. There is a huge list of 'wish-list or if-only' tweaks, which would be great to get done and be much appreciated.

To be honest, we have all messed around with, updated, posted and uploaded way beyond M$ copyright infringement, and they haven't batted an eyelid or shown any interest at all. So as long as the modded code is not for sale or comes close to be a commercial thing, I really can't see a problem with another mod. BUT open source definitely not, if you do it yourself, so be it. Open source to the world would be a big no-no, and would almost certainly get M$ down on you like a ton of bricks.

Your handle of c/c++ and what you've done already with gauges, shows you could do much, and especially if you have a guru to call on.

I can't speak for all (but really I think everyone would sit-up and listen..and then help) if you could show us something or started the process.

Cheers Shessi

Seagull V

May 13th, 2011, 01:37

I like Stratobats option of "Baby steps first", then take it from there.

As regards numbers of people, when one looks at the popular downloads both here and at Simviation, lets say 150 downloads from each site, plus say another 80 downloads from the other sites, then we end up with a figure of about 380 downloads. There is obviously a dedicated team of "Master Gurus" who have done much, some have left and others are still about. Newbies are often in the dark about what has been done before.
There are now Mods to make FSX "Combat" capable, with many defectors to the "Dark side".

I have done a few repaints and still consider myself an apprentice, and have started looking at design. Major problems for me is my work situation which has been not the best for a few years now, with some very heavy family issues added in as well. Finding time and getting the enthusiasm back has been a huge struggle at times. There are others who have their own experiences but done heaps, Rami bless his soul is one of them.

By the time we get through the technical issues, personal issues, preferences, likes/dislikes of the 380 persons we will all need to work out what way we are going to row this boat. 380 pairs of paddles going flat out in all directions is going to make one hell of a splash but I suspect not go very far.

Personally I hope CFS2 is around for another 20 years !!!!!!

Full respects to the Gurus that have kept it going so far, hopefully us apprentices can do the Gurus proud. We the apprentices also need wise encouragement from the Gurus when required.

During WW2 Australia produced a tank called the Sentinel depsite having no background in such heavy weapons. It has been speculated that one of the reasons the tank was so far advanced (a 17pdr gun was mounted in a turret way before the Sherman firefly came about) was that the Australians started with a blank canvass. I'm not saying that we should do the same, and NO I do not have the answers let alone the resources, but hey dudes, we can dream about what we would like to see, and sometimes dreams do come true.

Rami

May 13th, 2011, 02:50

Good morning,

I like it when I see people discussing ways to improve CFS2, so let me offer another point. One of the things I've found is that the best contributors to the CFS2 community are those who are naturally inquisitive and seek to understand, improving through the process of trial and error, not being afraid to fail.

I understand that working in mission builder, GMAX, FSDS, and other software that helps to create CFS2 is not easy, and can be intimidating. When discussing the future of CFS2, we should think as teachers. Those of us with the knowledge and experience should mentor those who are learning, making ourselves available at all times.

I can't speak for anyone else, but nothing would make me happier than to have long conversations on Skype, sharing my computer screen with a willing listener that wants to learn some of the MB secrets I've stumbled onto in the last three-and-a-half years. :jump:

Ian Astill

May 13th, 2011, 03:23

A big +1 to Rami. I've already learned a great deal from everyone here about the workings of the game in a relatively short time and I want to learn more.

And Talon please don't be offended. It could just be I misinterpreted your writing style.

I just think that any discussion is good even if the likely outcome will be very little. You might have seen the topic many times before but owing to new developments and new members I'm sure the discussion will differ at least slightly

bobhegf

May 13th, 2011, 04:01

The 1st think I would do,after giving it some thought is to try and correct the AI. MS said that they didn`t design the AI program to get the most out of the AI in combat.I would like to be able to controll the altitude and speed of the AI ac from the mission builder.One way to check is to see how they controlled the AI FS2000.

Fibber

May 13th, 2011, 05:45

and it almost sounds like herding a group of cats!
While I believe that it is a great idea, it has many pitfalls that have been alluded to. The main ones are time allocation, personalities, and preferences. I see one thing as a preferred add-on and someone else may not give it the same priority. Also, there is the problem of a great contributor feeling slighted because someone elses work is chosen.
To set up theaters by committee is like being a blindman in a minefield. No matter what you choose the decision will end in disaster for someone. Hurting that someones feelings and their possible loss of future contributions to the sim.
I personnally have the computer programming skills of a rock so I am no help, but what I believe should be the chosen path is as has been siad. Start with those functions of the game that are incomplete and can be addressed without anyone personally being offended, ie;
- weather, AI ( which to me seems to fly with my computer skills! I have personally flown better that it in real life!).
-Then move onto the geography.
There are many meshes out there that probably could be combined to give a real-life interpretation of the world.
-Sky colors ( as has been addressed).
- Water colors. As I have personally seen, and I am sure Talon and others also have seen, the ocean is vibrant to drab in different parts of the world. Like the Yellow Sea for instance. ( I could think of a few jokes here but I will refrain!)
- Clouds. Appearance and changeability, etc.

The list could go on, but what I am trying to say is stick to the games WORLD ENVIROMENT and operability for now. :salute:

sc7500

May 13th, 2011, 08:50

...and it almost sounds like herding a group of cats!...

Now that I'm retired, that's my new "profession".... It's not as tough as it looks !

SC
:kilroy:

sc7500

May 13th, 2011, 08:54

Just a thought - would keeping this "alive" as a sticky engender more continued input ?

Fibber

May 13th, 2011, 12:34

Dang SC, That is one hard profession you chose for a second career! I have only one that has adopted me by its' choice and herding it is sometimes challenging. Got around that with addicting it to soft treats. Now all I do is crinkle the bag abd PRESTO!! Instant cat!!!!:icon_lol:

As regards to the game I hope some of the benign factors are addressed as a operability sounding board before MAJOR changes. I will be no help there as when people talk about C++ I think they saw my math and computer course grades in school!

Ali Cat

May 14th, 2011, 07:04

Shessi,

This thread has too many intertwined strands for me to give them all their just due. It’s just that yours, in terms of me personally, is quite perceptive. On your "Maybe rather than thinking BIG … " comment that is actually what I see my CFS2 mod future as. I still play the game but what I have found is that for me the attraction is poking and prodding under the hood. For example, I did one once look into the AI issue. Is was a brief study but enough "what if’s" lit in my brain that someday I want to do a more complete exploration. If you add to your list mastering scasm then I think your archery is perfection.

To the thread topic,

That Holy Grail dream, that it won’t happen - that’s were my money is too. My Guess - what would it take? A 30 to 40 person dream team going at it 7 to 10 years? But too that it won’t happen is just one very, very safe bet, and that it can’t happen is just plain false.

Please note that I am not trying to drag anyone back to the Holy Grail/pipe dream subject (perhaps enough said?). This thread has taken on a life of it’s own since the start which I see as a complete positive. I’m in the process of stashing away all the salient points, the PM’s and the emails. It’s good stuff and that’s because of all of you.
　

Now wasn’t I working on a gauge or something?
AC

Shessi

May 14th, 2011, 08:38

Hi Sam/AC,
It's not a bad sim is it?!! 11+ years old and people still passionate about it, still tweaking and modding like mad.

I, for one, would be very interested in understanding the guts of the beastie, so count me in to lend a hand, if you need it.

One of the last persons with knowledge to really talk about this was Sander, you may be about to take the first step towards the holy grail......

Good luck!

Shessi

wolfi

May 15th, 2011, 12:36

Yes, I know this thread appears one or two times a year. And I answer almost the same way.
I think we all like to have the perfect sim. Unfortunately there are not so much people around who like to have the perfect sim, we cfs2,fsx, cfs3 and similar sim's player are mostly a bit "advanced" in years and so we are not the main target of the PC games industry, for them it's all about money, if they realize that there are a very lot of people who are willing to buy a "perfect flight sim" they will make it. So we are not enough I think!
In my opinion FSx is close to perfect, and would be if they make a Combat Flight Sim out of it with all the possibilities of the CFS3 aircraft and CFS2 mission builder. But who is willing to pay for it? which company is willing to make such a simulator? who has the skills and the money to make it?
I still hope that once in the future there will be such a Combat flight sim realized, but I doubt it.
Wolfi

igacci

May 16th, 2011, 07:47

My 2 yen cents.

As Wolfi mentioned above, flight sim is not so popular amongst general gamers. Thus developers can not expect money to compensate for the investments. It's sad to say that I'm inclind to think there will unlikely be a new Combat sim released.

From the technological point of view, FPS games could be the foundation of the flight sim. Due to the popularity and profit expected, they implement most advanced graphics and state-of-the-art physics without exception. Both can be great possibility for building planes, flight models and scenaries. (Let's put it aside that there will be vast amout of time and effort needed to build a whole flight-sim environment over a FPS engine.)

From the point of view of terrain, I know that FPS engine is more geard toward a local area and expressing it's detail than a global area and it's comprehensiveness, but I believe it's the matter of memory and HDD space, that the time will solve.

Regards

Daisuke

bearcat241

May 17th, 2011, 02:48

...From the technological point of view, FPS games could be the foundation of the flight sim... From the point of view of terrain, I know that FPS engine is more geard toward a local area and expressing it's detail than a global area and it's comprehensiveness, but I believe it's the matter of memory and HDD space, that the time will solve.

Duly noted Igacci. Just keep in mind that any new age flight sim based on an FPS platform will likely end up as nothing more than an eye-candy, arcade-styled game, in keeping with the current trend of instant gratification in virtual FPS combat. That wouldn't be enough for my money. MS has spoiled me...i expect full or near full immersion flight training incorporated into my combat sim, complete with click-able gauges and all flight controls which i can manipulate voluntarily. An FPS platform will likely skip all of that to get to the "fun" parts. Yeah, we could get a bonified, high-detail cockpit view, instead of just a simple rear view external only, but would we be able to "touch" anything in the cockpit?

And what about tweaking flight models and modifying loadouts to suit personal preferences? No, that would be canned as well, with a "do not touch" copyright added, or some kind of kill switch that shuts you down if you modify anything,, even if you only fly offline.

Touching enhanced scenery, i like it as much as the next guy, but for combat, my main focus has and always will be flight performance and aircraft detail. An FPS game may offer the authentic visual detailing, but would we be stuck with the developers' interpretations in flight modeling, ala the IL2 series? Fortunately, MS had the foresight to leave this door open to the user's interpretation...we can change whatever we don't like about a flight model. If i think a P-51D should be able to hold a tight 6g 360 degree turn at 300 mph without dropping like a rock or max at 430 mph on WEP in straight level flight, i should be allowed to achieve that in my purchased game.

igacci

May 17th, 2011, 08:33

Hi Bearcat.

About implementing full-immersion world, it should be possible with current 3D engines.

Well I had better not to say "FPS" but "game engines" instead.

I'm not thinking to build an arcade style combat sim in a specific FPS titles like Battle Field series or Crysis seriels. I'm thinking to utilize the game engines of them more in-depth.

Game studios like Valve software are willing to support comunity mods. For example, Valves releases SDK sets that are very well organized and has plenty of informations. And the developpers are very close to the comunity (unlike MS!).
And there are mods that are completely different from the original game. The best known one is Counter strike (a multi player game) that is derived from Half-life (originally a single player game).

Current game engine has vast flexibility that it can morph itself into completely different thing. So, my expectation is that we might be able to take advantage of it's physics simulation for better flight model, and of course, the state of the art graphics. No need to mention for it's combat abilities.
The physics system most likely make the things more and more complex though.
The depth of immersion would be depend on how far we can implement the physics.

The interactive gauges are possilble as I believe. As you can see in 3D style role playing games, interaction with objects (with a mouse) is available. Thus, interactive gauge should not be a big problem (only a matter of programing).

That's why I think the FPS (I better say it's game engine) could be a possibility.

Anyway, I'm not optimistic that developers would go for a flight sim based on current game engine. But it's kind of fun to imagine a possibility of a new sim.

Regards

Daisuke

merlin2

May 20th, 2011, 14:38

Hi folks; I have been in and out of CFS2 for many years; have created a plane and scenery and missions; what I said several years ago was that I would love to see a yearly update compilation, where a select group of the best of the best CFS2 developers knocked together a nice package of planes, scenery and missions into a consolidated update with a release date; then we could all install it simply and quickly, and we could all be experiencing the same update package and sharing our experiences together. It need not be all new, but could be a compilation of the best in a given theater, and organized so that an install would be a simple and fool-proof process. if this idea got going, then future releases could be in an organized manner, focussing on theatres, etc; team members could work on projects in a more organized way.
As a user I tend to get immersed in the individual updates themselves, and doing my own tweaking, with little reference to the outside community. [Of course, the other side of the argument is that it is better this way, with each of us doing our own thing and sharing as we are able.]

the other thing that I would love to see would be an interactive bulletin board type of interface where the collective knowledge and wisdom about working with CFS2 could be gathered and expanded--in fact a WIKI type of environment. So much that is valuable is hidden in the threads; but if it could be recorded in a structured manner . . .
I still think that CFS2 is the best we have for now and the future, lets focus in a way that makes it more enriching for all of us together.
Best to all!!
merlin2

PS a big air show in Hamilton Ontario on June 18, focussing on WWII craft.