in development at Razbam

[warchild]

So there i was last night, sitting in my usual chair talking with the team on teamspeak, and taking a break from playing oblivion for 200 some hours ( not straight ), and And Razbam contacts me through skype and asks me if i'd like to test a visual model... Sure i say.. no worries.. And 20 minutes later, i got this big grin on my face..
In the 1970s, the OSD decided to replace the F-14 with of all things, the F-16, which as you all know went over like a lead balloon. However, never to be denied, the OSD came up woth an alternative, which was to give the Navy no choice but to select a lightweight VTOL aircraft. Two aircraft were submitted the first, was a radical design from general dynamics/convair called simply the convair 200, and based on a dual centerline lift engine behind the cockpit, with a rotating exhaust on the thrust engine.. . The Second offering was from North American and was based on a thrust augmented wing.. The Navy took one look at the two submittals and knew that thrust augmentation would never work, so they chose that plane to move forward with.. Of course it failed, and the Navy was happy because taking its place soon afterwards ( with a little political in fighting ) was the FA-18 Hornet, which has a story all its own..
This is the General Fynamics/Convair 201 which was the Conventional takeoff version of the craft.. I have a suspicion Razbam is working on the VTOL as well.. and yes, these actually flew in real life...

I recommend that if your interested in it that you stop on in at Razbams forum and say hello :)

Hope you like it..
Pam

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k171/urushira/2011-4-28_19-39-55-116.jpg

[fsafranek]

I've always thought the Rockwell entry looked cooler. Well, certainly more radical.

http://www.alexstoll.com/AircraftOfTheMonth/2-00.html

But in the end the Navy didn't really want anything to do with the idea of a VSTOL replacement for their F-14, they wanted what the the F-18 promised to be. So they set the whole program up to fail and wasted a lot of taxpayer money. Too bad, there might have been a replacement for the Harrier a lot sooner. Convair's concept eventually saw the light of day with the F-35 though. It should be an interesting project to watch.
:ernae:

[warchild]

yup.. Thats what happens when a good plane meets bad politics... The rockwell plane was actually the opposing plane i was thinking of.. it looked cool, but itwas far too complex to function well.. So mush thrust was lost before it got to the nozzles that it became a farce... However, if you want cool looking, Smoothie found this little bird that went up against the A-12 and lost by a very narrow margin. However, it was never canceled but instead simply disappeared into I assume a planned obscurity for the next thirty years when all of a sudden, we have two new things in the sky. One of them coming to be called the wobbly goblin, and the other still shrouded in misdirection, mystery and concealment called aurora..

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3505/3781741680_1d0dee2176.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2439/3780928017_aee1ebf48b.jpg

[michael davies]

I always did like project/concept aircraft and this one (201) looks killer :), always liked the F-108 Rapier as well.

Best

Michael

[roger-wilco-66]

Interesting aircraft, never heard of it! Thanks for the head-up.

I hope they finish the SB2C Helldiver first though. It has been ominously quiet about it lately. The thread about it in the RAZBAM forum is as dry as the salt flats in Death Valley :icon_eek:

Cheers,
Mark

[GB]

By Razbam's released info, the jet is very close. There is also a fresh helldiver update in the forum, but I think the jet is much nearer to the final.

Besides its impressive external model, you have to see the VC preview pictures to be more than amazed (what an Ejection seat texture and even this SafetyBelt !!).

Considering the offered (nav/att) full features, the model in all its aspects and the tradition of projects working flawlessly from day 1, I really have high hope for this bird..

btw...I regard it as a "Grippen" before the real Grippen came out:mixedsmi:

[fsafranek]

I always did like project/concept aircraft and this one (201) looks killer :), always liked the F-108 Rapier as well.

Best

Michael
Now that was a good looking aircraft.
:ernae:

[XLR8]

yup.. Thats what happens when a good plane meets bad politics... The rockwell plane was actually the opposing plane i was thinking of.. it looked cool, but itwas far too complex to function well.. So mush thrust was lost before it got to the nozzles that it became a farce... However, if you want cool looking, Smoothie found this little bird that went up against the A-12 and lost by a very narrow margin. However, it was never canceled but instead simply disappeared into I assume a planned obscurity for the next thirty years when all of a sudden, we have two new things in the sky. One of them coming to be called the wobbly goblin, and the other still shrouded in misdirection, mystery and concealment called aurora..

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3505/3781741680_1d0dee2176.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2439/3780928017_aee1ebf48b.jpg

It looks like a F117 flying wing.

[XLR8]

Now this is what I'm talking about.Build some concept aircraft rather than another one we already have 5 of.

[warchild]

It looks like a F117 flying wing.
Apparently there's still a lot of discussion going on regarding this aircraft and its likeness to Have Blue and the resulting F-117. Other facts about it arnt quite so well known. The Plane used radar absorbent material and there wasnt a single straight edge on the plane...
Remember, this was in 1959. Heres an image of it upside down for radar testing..
36248

[kilo delta]

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k171/urushira/2011-4-28_19-39-55-116.jpg

Looks like a Saab JA37 Viggen..

http://www.combataircraft.com/aircraft/fja37_p_03_l.jpg

[rvn817j]

Looks like a Saab JA37 Viggen..

http://www.combataircraft.com/aircraft/fja37_p_03_l.jpg

You're aircraft 'recce' prowess is beyond reproach! (For starters, the Rockwell aircraft has no center-line vertical stabilizer. Plenty more features that distinguish it! However, note the wing(s) trailing and leading edges.)

[GB]

Sorry guys, but for my eyes it looks like:


Grippen

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcReZANHg_7Eiju43TwO65QoPPqAA8MTZ nfoiJsT29w7bwyLO8V7uQ&t=1

There are differences though:

Conv201: 3d-inlets for more robust Supersonic Performance, short nose for better downward visibility, Fixed/flap type canards.

Grippen: All moving canards (higher agility), long nose (forebody based high AOA lift generation), much smaller exhaust area (lower thrust engine)

[Bjoern]

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k171/urushira/2011-4-28_19-39-55-116.jpg

Looks like a souped up X-31...




http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2439/3780928017_aee1ebf48b.jpg

I just can't help but think "hotwashed and mangled Tu-22" when looking at that pic...

[wilycoyote4]

yup.. Thats what happens when a good plane meets bad politics... The rockwell plane was actually the opposing plane i was thinking of.. it looked cool, but itwas far too complex to function well.. So mush thrust was lost before it got to the nozzles that it became a farce... However, if you want cool looking, Smoothie found this little bird that went up against the A-12 and lost by a very narrow margin. However, it was never canceled but instead simply disappeared into I assume a planned obscurity for the next thirty years when all of a sudden, we have two new things in the sky. One of them coming to be called the wobbly goblin, and the other still shrouded in misdirection, mystery and concealment called aurora..

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3505/3781741680_1d0dee2176.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2439/3780928017_aee1ebf48b.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_KINGFISH

[Naki]

..
This is the General Fynamics/Convair 201 which was the Conventional takeoff version of the craft.. I have a suspicion Razbam is working on the VTOL as well.. and yes, these actually flew in real life...


Really?? I know the Rockwell (North American) design never flew as it simply couldn't but from my recollection the Convair design was never built let alone flew.

[Ian Warren]

Im just waiting for Clint Eastwood to steel something again from the Russians :kilroy: in this century ... a weekend at Clint,s place maybe :mixedsmi:
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[Helldiver]

The heck with these weird looking oil burners that have the aerodynamics of a brick and need a computer to keep them right side up..
Let's get going on the SB2C, a real airplane with a real recip engine and a propeller with a real person driving it.
At the rate that Razbam is going, I'll be long gone before it is published. I'll tell my Great-Grand Kids to look for it..

[Cag40Navy]

Guys, we will get to the helldiver this year, but it is unknown as to when this year, but it will be this year.

[peter12213]

It's Got to be a Viggen, VIGGEN VIGGEN VIGGEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sundog]

The Convair 200/201 never flew, it was just a design study. You can learn more about it here. (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,103.0/highlight,convair+200.html)

As for the Convair KingFish, the A-12 competitor, Code One should be releasing more info on it in the future, as they recently released more info and history on the Super Hustler and now the Fish. All three of which you can learn more about here. (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1129.0/highlight,super+hustler.html)

Having said that, I would love to fly both birds in FS, and I have something along the same lines, i.e.-drawing board only design, that never flew but I always thought was a beautiful plane in development. It's sort of stuck right now due to software problems. But it will be done eventually.

In fact, it's also on hiatus, because I'm working on artwork for an article on the YF-23 family of designs, including the naval variant and two seat variants and possibly some other derivative designs. I'll be working on those more this weekend.

[XLR8]

Apparently there's still a lot of discussion going on regarding this aircraft and its likeness to Have Blue and the resulting F-117. Other facts about it arnt quite so well known. The Plane used radar absorbent material and there wasnt a single straight edge on the plane...
Remember, this was in 1959. Heres an image of it upside down for radar testing..
36248

I always find it amazing how technology was in the 50s and 60s. And yet many of those technology's are used today.

I read some time ago that the B2 stealth bomber was built from the flying wing,but got its shape from a car with its doors open.

[warchild]

Really?? I know the Rockwell (North American) design never flew as it simply couldn't but from my recollection the Convair design was never built let alone flew.

Ummm.. your right.. My bad.. My old eyes got fiiled by a really good artists interpretation..
Sorry.

[RKinkor]

yup.. Thats what happens when a good plane meets bad politics... The rockwell plane was actually the opposing plane i was thinking of.. it looked cool, but itwas far too complex to function well.. So mush thrust was lost before it got to the nozzles that it became a farce... However, if you want cool looking, Smoothie found this little bird that went up against the A-12 and lost by a very narrow margin. However, it was never canceled but instead simply disappeared into I assume a planned obscurity for the next thirty years when all of a sudden, we have two new things in the sky. One of them coming to be called the wobbly goblin, and the other still shrouded in misdirection, mystery and concealment called aurora..

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3505/3781741680_1d0dee2176.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2439/3780928017_aee1ebf48b.jpg
Aurora? Lockheeds proposal for the B-2 program that Aurora? BTW this comes from a hardcore Aurora beleiver until I read the book Skunkworks by Ben Rich.

[noddy]

That looks like it could be fun.

[delta_lima]

Hello Ron (and friends at Razbam),

Most folks who know me also know that I love all manner of delta aircraft ... so I was really excited when I picked this book up during the weekend ....


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EK5EUl6YL._SL500_AA300_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/1580071554/ref=dp_image_z_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books)


And it got me me thinking .... if RAZBAM is looking into the likes of the Convair 201, what about taking a look into this lovely bird ... the F5D Skylancer!!


http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/F-5D/Small/E61-07109.jpg

http://www.b-29s-over-korea.com/NASA-Photos_I/images/F5D-Skylancer--NASA.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/2/4/1/1035142.jpg

It's unique, it's naval, it would likely have been an immensely capable plane, shelved more due to politics than to concrete deficiencies .... a magnificent aircraft.

My Alphasim F4D still gets regular airtime - but this would be a dream come true ...

dl

[Prowler1111]

Well...the same guy that created the C201 is also creating a Skyray..from there to a Skylancer might be some short steps..

Prowler

[delta_lima]

AWESOME!!!!!

An updated Skyray would be nice - that itch gets scratched decently by the old FS9/ported "Ford", but I love the plane so much that I couldn't resist a proper FSX version. The possibility of an F5D is almost too good to believe.

thanks for the update ...

dl

ps - check your pm ... :)

[Prowler1111]

A pair of renders of the future "Ford" in FSX

41170

41171

Just don´t hold your breath, Nils is extremely busy currently with the Helldiver..

Best regards

Prowler

[Mach3DS]

I would love to get an FSX skyray. fabulous! I'm all about the "what if" concept demonstrators...

If you like Delta's why not the X-32A/B? Many people think this is a very ugly bird, but what's not to love! :icon_lol:

Congrats to Razbam for taking this on! it looks fantastic. It'll be my next purchase...hopefully their A-7 vol III as well...

[Piglet]

Fun Stuff...41214412134121541212

[strykerpsg]

Oh Wow! Mighty impressive Tim. Is this the fabled A-12?

Matt

[Cag40Navy]

Fun Stuff...41214412134121541212

Too bad you couldnt bring back and do a FSX native one, but hey, im glad it ports. Sure is fun to fly, i cant thank you enough.

[Mithrin]

I glanced at this from my mobile phone yesterday and for a sec I thought it was a Viggen. Then I came home and saw it wasn't. Grrr....still looks cool though!

[brettt777]

AWESOME!!!!!

An updated Skyray would be nice - that itch gets scratched decently by the old FS9/ported "Ford", but I love the plane so much that I couldn't resist a proper FSX version. The possibility of an F5D is almost too good to believe.

thanks for the update ...

dl

ps - check your pm ... :)

Any update on the Razbam "Ford"? I don't see a thing about it on the Razbam website.

[lazarus]

Too bad you couldnt bring back and do a FSX native one, but hey, im glad it ports. Sure is fun to fly, i cant thank you enough.
Tims A-12 is fsx(A) native. Isn't it ? Yup. separate cockpit model.