B-17 Restoration Thread...

[Wittpilot]

Thats right folks... I finally have a second to sit down and start up the thread again... I have been going off and on and nothing huge has happened... The new hanger is nearing completion, but I have no idea when everything will get moved. I think my dad is wondering how he is going to cut move that mural that he painted.... I think he will just seriously take a chainsaw to the wall, and start cutting it out.... lol....

We could not locate any seats readily available, so we have been trying to make our own... no easy task without giant presses to just press them out by the thousands! Dad and I had to manually roll and slowly bend the seat out... no pictures of that..but I got a pic of the seat I was working on last year almost complete w/ the armor plating and all...

-witt

[Wittpilot]

Also... wanted to mention that all these pictures were taken with my iphone, so they aren't the best quality.... but I always have it with me!

I took some pictures of the DC-3/ C-47 awhile back too, but also never got a chance to post them...

[Panther_99FS]

Nice job so far!

BTW--> http://www.makayama.com/camerapro.html

[Snuffy]

Thanks for starting it back up Witt.

I've missed the updates.

[Wittpilot]

I do believe I am going to the airport tonight, so if anyone has any requests let me know. I will have my phone with me so I will get the message.
Witt

[Bomber_12th]

Thank you for the new thread, Witt! The amount of work that has gone into that aircraft to get it to how it is today, and what it will take to get it complete is truly mind boggling. I read on WIX earlier this week that the goal is to have it flying within ten years time?

From that last photo of one of the pilot's seats coming together, it reminds me of building the old Revell B-17 kit - as a kid I was quite shocked when I first saw how the seats were structured.

Any information on how the nose is coming along? All that I have heard is that it will be built up from mostly new material, and that the main formers are complete.

[Snuffy]

Of course ... I want pictures of EVERYTHING!!! :redf:

[Wittpilot]

John,

No work has been started on the nose section yet that I know of... I think everything from the cockpit forward will have to be built from scratch, as well as the radio compartment. The seats are indeed pretty neat... and let me tell you, they just do not look right with different seats on the stands... They had a few different seats around, some from C-45's and C-47's, even some others, and they all just did not look right... Hence why they are making their own. Plus I was a bit against the armor plating idea, but I think it will be neat when it's done. I love that model too Bomber... too bad to buy that model nowadays it's damn near $30!!
btw, did you see that thread over at Wix that someone posted that visited there? One of the first pics there with the wing on the ground is sitting infront of my dad's classroom hanger...

-Witt

[Wittpilot]

I'm not sure if I mentioned this in a prior thread or not, but my dad actually works at the airport full time nowadays... He teaches a class that they just started last year called Aviation Occupations, or something to that effect, for the local Joint Vocational school... and his classroom is in a hanger at the airport... they spend all day working on planes and... get this..... PLAYING FLIGHT SIMULATOR!!!! man what a class!!! where was this when we were going to high school? he started out with 2 students, and has 14 this year. They have an old Fairchild they are working on, a recently donated partially built Flying Flea.... (the gentleman building it was like an 80 year old retired aeronautical engineer who passed away recently) and now they have a new aircraft to tinker with...

Story goes... the gentleman had not been paying his rental fees for storing his plane in the old hanger at the airport... mind you, it is the old original hanger, no heating, no lighting, no ac, etc. So after trying to contact the gentleman for quite awhile, the mayor of the city told my dad to go get this plane out of this hanger and put it in his... so him and some students went down and pushed it down the ramp... They are trying to get the title to it... I looked inside, the last airworthiness certificate was I believe in '94... so it has seen better days, but its gonna be a nice little project.

Took some pictures... the Flea is kind of hard to get an idea of what it looks like, the wings are folded up... and... can anyone guess what the new plane is???? a beer for the right answer...

and there is a pic of the Fairchild when it was still in one piece,......sort of...... its now bare bone frame waiting to be coated...painted....whatever they do....lol

-witt

[Wittpilot]

No guesses yet??

Here's another shot...

[BurningBeard]

Is this the Flea you are talking about? I took this in Denmark a couple of years ago.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/US94_Burning_Beard/IMG_0459.jpg

Beard

[Wittpilot]

Yeah, I do believe that this Flea will look very similar to that... Something interesting about it though... it has a stick and it has pedals.... however, since there are no ailerons, the stick only moves up & down.... I would totally be trying to move the stick left and right to turn.... Another funny thing is that on the lower wing in the rear... it has an elevator of sorts... but it does not go down, only up!!! Will have to break out the manual!

-witt

[Snuffy]

Nice human interest story Witt. :applause:

Where's the 17? :redf: :costumes:

[airtj]

Piper Pacer?

[Wittpilot]

It is basically a Piper Pacer, however, it is a Piper Colt...They are essentially the same plane. Nice job....

-witt

[Wittpilot]

I guess this weekend they fitted the top part of the top turrent up there... I seen this picture on the 401st website...

-witt

[Wittpilot]

Took a look at the website... and looks like they actually updated with a few pics.... I think this one gives a good idea of some of the progress made in the last two years...

-witt

[Wittpilot]

Some day I know these damn seats willl be done...that day was not last week... I made the piece in the picture that goes across the bottom of the seat... and as always I of course cut the piece the wrong size because we did not realize that it had bends in the piece... oh well... happens all the time...

-witt

--I'm hoping for this year to have at least between 50-100 hours of volunteer time... thats my goal anyways...

[Snuffy]

Okay Witt, you got pictures of the TT ... does the TT come with the working machinery too?

I'd like some shots of it in place please :)

[Wittpilot]

Snuffy... I had some pictures in the thread before the crash... will do some digging and see if I still have them on this harddrive... What you see in that last picture is just the frame of the top... Whole top turrent assemblies are a huge rariety in the warbird circuit; however, this project acquired an entire assembly from somewhere, (note: if I had to guess, I think it came from the Soplata collection up north)

-witt

[Wittpilot]

Snuffy...Nope, don't have them on this pc anymore, they are on a disk somewhere... I will have to take some more this thursday....

[Snuffy]

I'll be looking forward to them. I remember seeing the shots you mention in the older thread. I was just hoping to see the machinery in place :)

[Wittpilot]

Last Thursday we rolled the ridges into the seat panel, and this past Thursday all I really did was round out another panel and get a few pieces ready to be heat treated....
-witt

[Wittpilot]

The new hanger is nearly complete and now houses the '25, the C-47, A-26, and I would imagine the T-6 as well...

[Crusader]

The new hanger is nearly complete and now houses the '25, the C-47, A-26, and I would imagine the T-6 as well...

Really looking forward to coming over and seeing these this spring . I've read your restoration threads front to back and you can easily tell this is a labor of love with everyone involved . Congrats and good luck in the future .

Rich

[Wittpilot]

Rich, hopefully by then they will have the project moved to the new hanger , but if you ask me they should just keep it where it's at, and move finished pieces there ... It would save some money on rent though! We shall see.

[Wittpilot]

Lookee here folks.... What we have here after damn near half a years work, is something that is beginning to resemble some type of sitting device....... we are oh so very proud..... gonna be a big day when this thing is done. And then...........................there are three more just like it to do....................................:faint:

-witt

[Wittpilot]

Got to see and compare our work to an actual B-17 seat... I won't disclose the secret location, or which B-17 this particular seat was out of... I will keep you guessing....muahahahahahahah I think everything looks good so far... next thing we have to worry about is the bead around the edges... the original seat in the picture is one long piece of aluminum...

-witt

[Wittpilot]

Surprised no one took a stab at the 'secret location'...

No update this week... I only worked for 2 hours... I had to leave a bit early because i slit my thumb open pretty good trying to file down the rough edges... my thumb slid right down the side of the seat... I had to pick the metal shavings out of the cut... It wasn't too deep... but it is sore as crap.

-witt

[Snuffy]

I don't know ohio well enough to even begin to guess.

[brad kaste]

Would it be an actual seat from the "Memphis Bell" that's being over hauled at the USAAF Museum in Dayton Ohio?

[Allen]

Would it be an actual seat from the "Memphis Bell" that's being over hauled at the USAAF Museum in Dayton Ohio?


Think the same thing or another B-17 at the USAF museum.

[Wittpilot]

Would it be an actual seat from the "Memphis Bell" that's being over hauled at the USAAF Museum in Dayton Ohio?


I will neither confirm, nor deny that claim......:wiggle:

[Allen]

I will neither confirm, nor deny that claim......:wiggle:

Guilty....

[Wittpilot]

These two little pieces go on the bottom of the seat... 2 hours work for those little puppies... Making those multiple bends are tough... and I had to do a lot of sanding down to get them to the right size... which makes aluminum incredibly HOT!!!!!

Luckily the fuzzy iPhone pic makes them look better than they were...

-witt

[Wittpilot]

It's been awhile since I got anyh quality work done.... and I can't say I really have gotten anything truly earth-shattering done in the last week.

They do have a steel bulkhead set up to where the nose will be added. Hopefully work on that will begin shortly.

Also a little goofing around with some .50 caliber machine guns.... what can I say... We are all young and stupid at heart right?

The other goofer-offer is my younger brother.

-witt

[cheezyflier]

These two little pieces go on the bottom of the seat... 2 hours work for those little puppies... Making those multiple bends are tough... and I had to do a lot of sanding down to get them to the right size... which makes aluminum incredibly HOT!!!!!

Luckily the fuzzy iPhone pic makes them look better than they were...

-witt

you guys must be in serious need of equipment. i feel for ya, as one metal man to another.

[Wittpilot]

We have enough equip. to get the job done, it's just knowing how to utilize it. My trouble is that I never even touched a blank piece of aluminum before a year ago!

[Snuffy]

Nice pictures Witt.

She's looking good. :woot:

[Wittpilot]

An idea of what is missing off of the nose...

[djscoo]

An idea of what is missing off of the nose...
Where do you get a B-17 nose anyway, are ya'll gonna use a salvage one or get one constructed?

[Snuffy]

Yeah, all of it! :173go1:

[Wittpilot]

Where do you get a B-17 nose anyway, are ya'll gonna use a salvage one or get one constructed?


Are you talking about the plexiglass nose cone, or the entire nose section itself?

[djscoo]

Are you talking about the plexiglass nose cone, or the entire nose section itself?
The plexiglass...

[Wittpilot]

I do not think we have one readily available... Therefore, we will be making a form and we will be making a new one... I seen them doing this for a canopy at the restoration area at the Air Force Museum but I didn't grab a picture of it... Also, someone has already made a form for the plexi above the radio operator's room... Maybe I will try and get a pic of that next time... Hopefully that answers your question.

-witt

[Bomber_12th]

Thank you for keeping the updates flowing, Witt! If I lived closer, I would love to lend a hand. Great, great progress thus far! I can see that the nose assembly is going to be a big undertaking to accomplish, but I'm sure it will begin coming together in no time. It is amazing how always some of the smallest parts take the most time to complete. Back in WWII, they had presses which could stamp all of that complex sheet metal forming out in a few seconds - now it takes a lot of time and frustration to reproduce by hand, but your efforts are definitely paying off! As always, I am looking forward to the next update!

[Wittpilot]

You're welcome John... Don't see you around these parts as much anymore... Hopefully that means you are staying busy. Are you going to Oshkosh this year? There will actually be a plane there that I helped with restoring.

[Bomber_12th]

Yes, I have been quite busy lately, between work and school. I am planning on going to Oshkosh again this year, though I never know for sure until about a week or two ahead of time - its one of those trips that is just past the edge of making a day trip, so there always has to be at least two days set aside for Oshkosh, at least, and that gets to be a problem sometimes with conflicting schedules, between me and my travel buddy, my oldest sister, who also shares a passion for vintage aviation. This year there is a P-51B/C gathering being planned for Oshkosh, for which ever examples can make it, as the CAF Minnesota Wing's P-51C will be making a return to Oshkosh, following its rebuild - which is reason enough for me to go. :)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
It has got to feel incredible, knowing that you had a part to play in the actual restoration process of an aircraft that flies! Just wait till that B-17 takes flight, with some of your very own handiwork!<o:p></o:p>

[safn1949]

I will post these photos I took today in the faint chance they will help.Good luck with the resto.:friday:

[Wittpilot]

Okay, I stopped by the airport on the way home today... and just so happens that I seen the form I was talking about earlier... So, Here it is...

I'm working tomorrow this week instead of the normal Thursday... So expect some more pictures tomorrow or Thursday...

-witt

[Wittpilot]

Well we got all of the parts for the seat cleaned up... I put the part numbers in the metal with the taps there in the picture. Now they are waiting to be heat treated... In the mean time, I took more of the other seat apart and started sandblasting & painting...

-witt

[Snuffy]

Nice job Witt.

(PSssst) BTW ... you'll make the pyrex using a mold ... not a form. :) )

[Wittpilot]

My mistake Snuffy... I should know that ... It will be interesting watching it regardless....

[Wittpilot]

"So this is what a B-17 seat looks like completely disassembled.... Okay... Le'ts get 'er back together.."

"Who's got the instruction book? ..........What? No instructions? Well how the hell are we going to know how to put it back together?.........Original Drawings!?!?!?!?!? Have you seen those things?..........................Any other way? ......................No I don't remember how I took it apart............................................. .................................................. ........

......to be continued.................................

-witt

[Wittpilot]

With the semi-crashing of my maine computer, and a new computer that I won't let the internet get within 10 ft of, I have pictures to post, but they are on the camera still.... That being said... Please check out this link for some nice higher res photos taken by a gentleman that works with us on Thursdays.....

-witt

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/5161042257

lol..I look pretty crappy in the one picture I'm in, but you must understand, I come straight from work, so I have been up & going for more than 14 hours by the time I get to the airport...

[Snuffy]

Nice job Witt!!

Like the quad ... wonder if I can find one for myself?

[jackedwardmorris95]

Do you know if the Liberty belle is coming to duxford flying legends again this year?
Jack

[Wittpilot]

Like the quad ... wonder if I can find one for myself?

"quad" Okay... I must have missed something in one of the pictures..... You'll have to fill me in on that one buddy.....

:wiggle:
-witt

[Wittpilot]

Do you know if the Liberty belle is coming to duxford flying legends again this year?
Jack

Jack, unfortunately the answer would be no... And it is certainly not because Liberty Belle wasn't recieved graciously in the U.K..... but the cost, time, and effort put forth by those that took her over there is overwhelmingly tremendous... You are talking hundreds of thousands, most likely millions, to take her there and back... That trip had been in the planning for many years... and it was suppose to even go two years ago, but they decided to wait to see if they could raise more funds.. If I had to gather a guess, I would say you will not see another Fort over there for quite some time, if ever.... It would be nice to see another film made sometime in the future where everyone could get their planes over there again like they did in '89... Something good though, perhaps a 12 O'Clock High remake.......it's hard to remake a classic though isn't it.....

So, sorry... no, no plans to head back in the near future... My folks had blast though and I don't think my brother wanted to come back...he spent his nights in the seemingly haunted Framlingham control tower!! That, and I those hotel stays in Greenland get kinda expensive!!!

-witt

[Wittpilot]

Just checked, Liberty Belle posted some of their stops as they make their way back across the U.S. They are in Spokane this weekend, then Boise, and Sioux Falls for the following two weekends... Any members around them thar parts??

-witt

[Snuffy]

"quad" Okay... I must have missed something in one of the pictures..... You'll have to fill me in on that one buddy.....

:wiggle:
-witt

Can you say throttle quadrant? A quad! :)

[Wittpilot]

I kind of thought thats what you meant right before I posted that... I was like, "A quad???? I didn't see an atv in there... did he mean the golf cart?" lol...

Anyway... I think you would be hard pressed to find one Snuffy.. I think that one might have come out of that bar in Greenly, Greely,........ .... a town in Colorado.............I still think the ash tray was interesting... I have some photos of my own... will have to do the photbucket thing.... I always used imageshack, can we still use that???

[Wittpilot]

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3007/40292930.th.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40292930.jpg)
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2813/54565476.th.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=54565476.jpg)
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2259/91970775.th.jpg (http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=91970775.jpg)
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/6713/44163324.th.jpg (http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=44163324.jpg)
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2598/53150038.th.jpg (http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=53150038.jpg)

[Wittpilot]

Okay, so imageshack is no longer how it used to be.... and I can't get photobucket to upload any pics..... I am just in a dill of a pickle here... well, the above pics speak for themselves.... co-pilots seat frame with new hardware, throttle quadrant, equiped with ashtray..... etc, etc.... More to come folks....

[GT182]

Ashtry? I didn't realise there was an ashtry on it. Is there one on the copilots side too?

I'll have to look in 9O9 next time and see if it's there too. :kilroy:

[Wittpilot]

Gary, I do not think you will find it on any B-17 today... That is the first I had ever seen like that... but, as a matter of fact, dad said they are on the original drawings... and they are suppose to be somewhere on the seats too... and yes, I do believe there was one on the co-pilots seat. Now that I think about it, I wonder if any restorations out there have those on there... Maybe some static examples.... I wonder if Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby has them on there, that is suppose to be one of the most complex restorations..... hhhhmmmm.... now you got the juices flowing, will have to do some research....

-witt

[Wittpilot]

This has been taken down from another hanger at the airport, waiting to be worked on....

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3265/turret1.jpg (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=turret1.jpg)

[Willy]

Swoose might still have the ashtray. I'm also wondering if it was on Memphis Belle as she's a F model

[Wittpilot]

Willy, if I only knew to look about 2 months ago..............

[Allen]

Today I got to seen the Aluminum Overcast again. It was here in 2007. This time I got to take pics. I shot every thing that I could find that had writing on it. Gauges .ext. I just need to find some place to upload them all.

[Wittpilot]

Congrats Allen, to be honest, I have not seen A.O. since it's landing accident and with the new 'painted' aluminum.

Something I did manage to forget, or left out on purpose most likely.....

Ask yourself, what would be the worst thing to happen for us for this damned seat we have been working on for the better half of a year? We were preparing to rivet the whole thing together and placing the brackets were not matching up where they should in the drawings... 15 min later of not figuring out where our problem was.... dad said, "Don't tell me the whole seat is too big?!?............................:censored: Indeed friends, we don't know how with all the measuring, remeasuring, and triple measuring, but the damned thing is about 1/2 an inch longer from front to back than it should be...................... Now, to the naked eye no one would ever notice, but we are hoping that when the seat is full forward, and the yoke column is in the full back, they do not hit............ hopeully they designed that with a little more than 1/2" clearance....

-witt

[Allen]

I got pics of every thing I could. If these some thing you need to see, I may have it.

I did wonder why it did have 'painted' aluminum. Now I know. By the way I like the sitting in the radio operator's seat on the A.O. I wonder if I could get one for home.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4341/b17meradio.th.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b17meradio.jpg)

[Bomber_12th]

Thank you for the photos, Witt! At least a few B-17 restorations do have ashtrays installed - I believe they are typical 30's Ford ashtrays.

The following photos are from the B-17F "Boeing Bee", which illustrate some of the other locations they were mounted...

In this photo of the navigator's station, you can see it on the right side of the photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/spookythecat/3410491038/sizes/l/

And here on the radio operator's wall, which is the most common place to find the ashtrays on flying examples:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/spookythecat/3409633775/sizes/l/

By the locations of these and the pilot's ashtrays, they seem to be centered around the officer's positions. The B-29 also had the same ashtrays installed throughout. I seem to recall that smoking was only allowed onboard while the aircraft was in-flight; after take-off, and before landing.

[Wittpilot]

Thanks John.... I have never seen those before, or I have never noticed...Thanks for posting those... I seen a photo somewhere of your P-51 up there...maybe it was on WIX, or it was maybe in a magazine... I can't remember... Either way, looked good...

-witt

[Wittpilot]

Well today was a bit of a slow day... we got most of the parts prepared for painting and riveting. Couldn't do much after that, as we realized we screwed up a part on the seat again... We are converting the seats we had to be connected with the armor plating we made... and thusly we had to drill out some of the rivet holes and make them big enough for bolts... anyways, we all three must have got our wires crossed cuz, well we messed up... no biggee, we just have to remake a few parts... In the meanwhile... We decided to take it upon ourselves to enjoy the lighter side of restoration...

This is actually a first for me... I have been everywhere on a B-17... but the ball turret...looked insde one, even poked my head in...never sat in one....

Well... all I can say is.... damn... I could not have done it.. twenty thousand some feet up , noting below you, in a space that small...nope....

You must note that the first two are of my brother, last one of me... took w/ my iPhone so I didn't have a flash... and the turret is missing a lot of innards, so it would have been much much more cramped....

-witt

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6949/62473196.jpg (http://img32.imageshack.us/my.php?image=62473196.jpg)

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5700/70883824.jpg (http://img32.imageshack.us/my.php?image=70883824.jpg)

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3223/28203370.jpg (http://img32.imageshack.us/my.php?image=28203370.jpg)

[GT182]

You lucky devil Witt. I'd like to try sitting in one someday.

John, I couldn't get to see your photos. Yahoo said had to Sign In or register.

[Wittpilot]

Hadn't been to the hangar in two weeks (btw, I never really picked up on the fact that "hangar" when talking about the building is spelled with two 'a' s and not an 'e'....) We are beginning to put it together rivet by rivet... and the nose section is coming along quite well... I would think it will be done by the end of summer...

-witt

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/53/78608342.jpg (http://img35.imageshack.us/my.php?image=78608342.jpg)


http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4854/securedownloadvhx.jpg (http://img35.imageshack.us/my.php?image=securedownloadvhx.jpg)

[Snuffy]

Lookin good Witt.

:ernae:

[Wittpilot]

Now looking at that second picture, it's amazing how that was taken with my phone.....

[Panther_99FS]

Interesting shot of the nose development....:applause:

[Wittpilot]

Just more rivetting taking place... So I just took pictures of some new stuff that came in... A sight for the ball turret.... it was pointed out to me that this sight is "hot" as in radioactive.... he knows his stuff.. so I am taking that as truth... and the 50 cal. links I guess are kind of rare these days as well...

-witt

We are having a pancake breakfast at the local airport here in Urbana...anybody wanting to fly in, its a good meal... $5 for flapjacks, sausage, and a drink... plus the money goes for scholarships to local students.... I won one of those scholarships when I was a senior in high school, so it is nice to 'give back'.... and to top it off, it is in the new Champaign Aviation Museum, so you get to dine with the likes of an A-26, DC-3, T-6, & a B-25!

[Snuffy]

"Hot" would be the proper definition of something that's radiating ...

I use to do nuclear power plant decontamination equipment design ... I was fine till they started handing out the dosimeters. YIKES!!

Then the magenta and gold streamers started going up all over the warehouse.

Didn't take me long to find a new job.

[Willy]

I worked with power plant/reactor repairs on nuclear subs in the Navy for a couple of years. Never did like having to suit up for that.

Keep up the good pics Witt! Makes ya realize that there's a whole lot more to a B-17 than just wings and engines.

[djscoo]

My Dad used to work at a uranium enrichment facility for Goodyear Atomic (the same Goodyear that makes tires). He was walking out from wherever he worked at the time and an alarm started going off...he had accidentally been irradiated due to a coworkers mistake. I tell him that's why I turned out 6'5" when he's only 5'8".:173go1: Also sort of back on topic, I found a compass in our attic from my dad's army days that warns that it's radioactive and needs to be return to the department of defense...whoops!:monkies:

[Wittpilot]

Just some pictures to keep everyone interested... still more rivetting...

Check this forum to catch a few more 'detailed' photos... a bit more detail than myself w/ my iPhone...

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2681041367

-witt

I managed a pic or two from the other hanger of inside the A-26 & the B-25... also are pics of the seat, the tail being polished once again to be painted, again...... and a drawing to know how the damn thing goes together in the end....

[Snuffy]

Thanks for the update Witt. :ernae:

[Wittpilot]

Wanted to post a reminder to everyone that you can catch all the action live as it happens!!! on the hangar's live webcam.

Sometimes it's inop. but it works most of the time...

http://www.b17project.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=44

-witt

[Snuffy]

Pretty cool Witt! Thanks for that!

:ernae:

[Wittpilot]

I forgot to take a picture of what we were working on on the seat...we are trying to figure out how to make that bead that goes around the edge... I will take a picture the next time I am up there....

Snagged a pic of the chin turret housing ready to go in, and the second best mode of transportation down the tarmac....

-witt

[Wittpilot]

I thought this picture was neat... taken from the website...

[Snuffy]

That nose is looking great!

Thanks for the update Witt!

:ernae:

[Wittpilot]

I stopped by after work Tuesday to help mask off the tail to be painted... I will grab pictures of it painted tomorrow...

-witt

[Bomber_12th]

Exciting stuff, Witt! I'm really glad the nose, seat, and other assemblies are coming along so well, and I'm sure having the tail painted is going to be a motivational boost of inspiration! I was reading an article in the latest addition of Warbird Digest, that really put into perspective what it takes to pull off a ground-up warbird restoration, especially one as big as the B-17. A single bulkhead might take a month or more to reproduce, through finding the right drawings, making the tooling, stamping, machining, or pounding out the part, and then finally fitting it. This could be repeated over and over again with many parts that one never even sees or thinks about when viewing the final, restored aircraft - how much man hours and devotion required is amazing! Thanks again for providing these great updates on the progress!

[Shylock]

Wow this is still my favorite thread to check out from time to time to see the progress on her. Looking great. Love the pics.

[Snuffy]

That sure is an awful lot of yellow .... lol :jump:

[Wittpilot]

So we masked off the tail... Dad was meticulous about the placement of everything...even though if you flip through photos of the 401st no two planes had the same configuration of numbers, stripes, and letters on the tail...

That being said.... here's a shot sans letter "S"....

So it looked good when everything was done... (don't have a photo though) till apparently someone mentioned that the numbers were wrong.... the wrong size that is... and sure enough, I guess they were... dad had ordered the stencils and apparently the guy made them wrong... we didn't notice when we put them up, no one did.. and that tail must have sat with those stencils on for a few days!.... So.... I am not sure what the plan of action is now... He was pretty miffed about it... Probably will start from scratch...

Who here has dealt with industrial strength paint remover?????

:ernae:

-witt

[Wittpilot]

Also we had our annual volunteer banquet. There was an individual there, retired obviously, who put in over 800 hours in a 6 month period... I increased my hours over last year, 65 or there abouts this time.... not too shabby for someone with a full time job, 2 hour drive everyday, and two kids under the age of two.... My goal for next Jan. is to have 100....

Here is a pic the wife took of the volunteers at the dinner... This is not all-inclusive, but I'd say a majority of the volunteers that have spent a lot of time there are in the photo....

Also, dad gave a little presentation on his trip on Liberty Belle across the Atlantic...

-witt..

A :icon29: to the first person to pick me out....

[Snuffy]

... A :icon29: to the first person to pick me out....

So? what's this? Where's Waldo?

Third row back between the kid in the blue and white striped shirt and the older gentleman with the gray shirt.

---

Too bad about the tail there Witt ... I do have one question though.
You are obviously going to paint a white S on that triangle? Though according to my books written by Mr. Freeman, says that the group letters were usually left bare metal, and I don't detect any premasking of an S on that black triangle.

[Hurricane]

Great paint job, shame about the stencils. Always frustrating when stuff like that happens.
We're just spraying up our Whirlwind project at the moment which is the first time I've done anything other than small parts, panels etc. Masking is definately the most frustrating bit, takes ages and its sprayed in no time!


"Who here has dealt with industrial strength paint remover?????"

Not sure if you have an equivalent other there but we use Ardrox 2814. It doesn't burn like most, in fact you can put your hand in it without any effect. Its also the best stuff I've ever used, you spray it on and just leave it for a few hours and its virtually falling off. It took two days to do the DC-3 fuselage. Only downside is that it can't be used on mag alloys but theres a less powerful version which does (and is still pretty good).

[Wittpilot]

So? what's this? Where's Waldo?

Third row back between the kid in the blue and white striped shirt and the older gentleman with the gray shirt.

---

Too bad about the tail there Witt ... I do have one question though.
You are obviously going to paint a white S on that triangle? Though according to my books written by Mr. Freeman, says that the group letters were usually left bare metal, and I don't detect any premasking of an S on that black triangle.


Yep thats me, my brother is just to the right of me, dad is down at the right end....

With regards to the "S"... Mr. Freeman knows far more than I could ever know in my lifetime... I'm not sure... didn't think about that... Liberty Belle's tail is like that, metallic letter that is... Huh.... Only thing I could think of right of the top of my head would be the yellow strip going through, it would kind of take away with the impression that everything lays on top of the yellow stripe... Like Sentimental Journey's "U"...

Will have to get back to you on that question Snuffy...

-Hurricane,
Man, having remover that doesn't sting would be nice...I can recall stripping a good portion of the underside of the Flying Lab, *a Beech 18* and that stuff burning like the dickens... and burning through a pair of gloves in minutes....

Oh, the memories............

[Wittpilot]

Like I said, my folks stopped by to see the Desert Rat project in Ill.

Here are just a few pics... They are still ahead of us I'd say in progress, but I think we are catching up fast... Fortunately for us, we have a few more volunteers than they do... Which is a real real shame, because to be part of something like that, is very special...

-witt

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6523/2009oshkosh277.jpg (http://img197.imageshack.us/i/2009oshkosh277.jpg/)


http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3541/2009oshkosh278.jpg (http://img197.imageshack.us/i/2009oshkosh278.jpg/)

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8231/2009oshkosh260.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/2009oshkosh260.jpg/)

[Snuffy]

Witt,

I know for a fact that the band is eliminated with the bare metal "S" in the triangle. I got all, and I mean all of Mr. Freeman's books ... they are all very well read ...

If the letter in the group symbol was bare metal it was bare regardless of what was under, through, or around the group symbol.

Hope ya like paint remover! :kilroy:


7005

[Wittpilot]

Interesting Snuffy... You would have thought it would have made sense and would have been quicker to have painted them in layers like that... Will have to poke around a bit...

[Snuffy]

A white "S" is just as acceptable ... :) As long as its on a black background.

[Wittpilot]

Okay, I took a picture to better explain the issue with the numbers being incorrect... you can see in the picture below how the stencilling was incorrect... we re-measured 2 inches from the outside and what you see in black was excess.... terrible mess.

Also, I wasn't gonna share a photo of the nose till it was done, but I had to pass it along... she's looking sharp... hopefully it will be rivetted together by the end of fall...

[Marlin]

Beautiful and thanks for posting all shots.

OUTSTANDING:ernae:

[Wittpilot]

The tail has officially been repainted...looks good...yellow all matches... and you can only tell where we covered up the black if you are looking extremely close.... And the other photo shows what we are trying to do to make that bead that goes all the way around the pilots seat.... we are experimenting with different things... this was just a piece of flat aluminum, we bent it on a break, duck billed it around a steel rod, rolled it on an English wheel and then started to bend it.... I forget what you call the tool you use to do that ... its where you move the handle up and down and it either shrinks the metal or extends it to make a curve..... I'm an idiot for not remembering...... oh well....

-witt

[Snuffy]

Thanks for the update Witt. :ernae:

[Wittpilot]

UPDATE!!

Yeah, It's been awhile...

We are working on putting the edge of the seat on... this is how we did it...

Obviously this piece would have been orinally pressed out by a machine...

-bent a piece of aluminum on a break a little passed 90 degrees
-wrapped piece around a piece of steel, duckbilled it around
-rolled it on an English Wheel
-replaced the steel rod with an aluminun one to keep the shape

then we just started shrinking/stretching, bending.... the result shown below...

Also, paint is ordered for nose-art... probably be done before winter comes.....

-Witt

[Willy]

I'm really enjoying these updates and look forward to more!

[Wittpilot]

We cracked the edge around the seat...back to square one on that.... and we will soon have noseart!

BTW... Everytime I've come here this weekend, it had no new threads.... am I missing something here? It can't be that dead in here...no way...

[PRB]

You mean the metal seat part, like in the photo above? Ouch...

[Wittpilot]

Just the ridge that goes around the edge that is clamped on in the photo above..... It has been something that we are finding extremely difficult to replicate...

[OBIO]

Witt

I'm no master machinist, no metalurgist...but are you annealing the aluminum before your begin working with it? I have done a bunch of brake line work on cars...and a little annealing of the cold rolled brake lines sure makes flaring them a lot easier and less prone to cracking.

OBIO

[cheezyflier]

i agree, that should make things easier to work with. but you may find you need to under bend and work into it. once you aneal it, it's not going to want to bend back the other way, should you go to far once.

[Wittpilot]

The bending isn't too hard really, it is the shrinking/stretching that is tricky... the more you fiddle with that thin aluminum... the more it fights you... we have the technique down, it is implementing it that is difficult...:wiggle:

[Snuffy]

Thanks for the update Witt!

:ernae:

[Marlin]

Thanks again for more updates. Good stuff man!!!!!

[Hurricane]

Haven't looked at this for a while but you're making great progress. :applause:

I've not done much shrinking or stretching but in my experience its not easy.
What kind of alloy and temper are you using?
Does it provide any additional strength for the seat or is it just a trim?

[Wittpilot]

I don't think it really adds any stability, but it provides a round edge on the seat. The originals were probably pressed out and welded on... ours will be rivetted. And it is has been so long since it was a flat piece of aluminum I can't remember the strength or even what thickness metal we used off the top of my head...

[Hurricane]

Thanks.
I'm re-building a cessna 150 rudder at the moment which needs a few bits stretching and straightning.

[Wittpilot]

Big Update....

A lot of changes over the past few weeks since I haven't been at the airport in awhile....

Will let the pictures do the talking...

[Snuffy]

Lookin Good Witt! :applause:

[Bomber_12th]

Awesome update, Witt! I gotta get working on that repaint some day. ;)

[Wittpilot]

Quick Update...

Not much new to report... painting continues.... I mostly do a lot of observing during that part... and we continued work on the seat edge.... I added a little before picture & where we stand now....

[Quicksand]

Thanks for the update, Witt. I am very anxious to see this old girl take to the skies once more...:medals:

[MCDesigns]

Man I love this thread and I am envious, very cool stuff.

[Snuffy]

No one is as envious as me about this!! :jump:

[Wittpilot]

A little off topic, but I was browsing the web a bit tonight.. and came across this photo...

http://picasaweb.google.com/matthew.corlett/B17AtKTZR#5357758700104587202

I'm almost positive thats me behind the pilot & copilot in that picture... could be my brother... but I bet it is me on the last flight for me for the day, ( it got a little hot for the A-2)

[Wittpilot]

Before posting today's update.... I would like to take a time out to pay respects to a gentleman that passed away this past weekend... I made mention of it in a seperate thread, but incase you missed it... Gary Austin, a real "guru" of sorts in the warbird community left this world for the 'big airbase in the sky'... It was a thread Mr. Austin started on the restoration/reconfiguration of a B-24 that was the inspiration for this thread here... Although man never met him, talked to him, or really knew him at all, it seems he will be dearly missed by everyone....


On to other matters... More painting, and attempt #, attempt #..... uh.....ah, who the hell knows anymore.... another attempt at the seat bead.... this should give a bit of an idea again of the process of fitting it to the seat edge... shrinking/stretching & twisting....

-witt

[Quicksand]

Thanks for the report, Witt! Lookin good!

[Wittpilot]

Was doing a bit of "googling" tonight... Came up with this set from flikr. Looks like someone from the 'Desert Rat' project stopped in... Anyways, great photo-essay of the shop... Take a look... There are pictures of things that I don't even remember seeing!!!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ariagalactica/sets/72157622570908779/

-witt

[GT182]

She's looking great Witt. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/GT182/Thumbup.gif I envy you guys working on her, just to have a hand in on the restoration is priceless.

Photos from the link are great too. You can never have enough of them to document what's going on.

[Bomber_12th]

Just noticed someone over at WIX made a recent visit to the shop, and has posted a large number of up-to-date photos of the progress thus far.

Witt, it looks like the bead around the seat is taking form very nicely! The nose art is looking excellent as well.

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33341

[GT182]

The Champaign Lady is looking better and better all the time. Great photos in that thread over at Warbird Info Exch. :applause:

[Wittpilot]

Yeah John, That Shay character had to either be there this weekend or yesterday.... The basecoat of the woman was there only this weekend. The bead is pretty much ready to be heat treated and riveted on.

Look here for a more detailed look:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9531018708?r=8511069708#8511069708

Promise to keep updating more... Things are getting busy with holidays approaching and we are working 6 days a week at my plant....

-witt

[Wittpilot]

This is also updated I noticed... good read... kind of gives you an idea what the hangar is like...

http://www.b17project.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=21&Itemid=50

[Snuffy]

Great find guys!

And the Lady is lookin good Witt! All my best to the crew, please! :ernae:

[Wittpilot]

The pin-up has a basic color to her, and we did some work on the frame for the co-pilot seat.

[Marlin]

:applause:

[Snuffy]

I sure hope you guys get those chairs done before the plane is ready ... you've been working on em for over a year now haven't ya? LOL! :bump:

Lookin good Witt!!

:medals:

[Wittpilot]

I sure hope you guys get those chairs done before the plane is ready ... you've been working on em for over a year now haven't ya? LOL! :bump:

Lookin good Witt!!

:medals:


That thought has crossed our minds...........:jump: I took a picture of these controls located next to the bombsight. I know one opens the bombbay doors, couldn't tell you exactly what they all do... This was all made from scratch!

[Snuffy]

I'll have to check my manuals ... more later. :)

[Snuffy]

Okay Witt, I'm back ...

From the inside, (nearest the bombardier)

The wheel is called Emergency Rewind Wheel
First lever is Bomb Door Control Lever
Second lever is Internal Bomb Control Lever
Third lever is External Bomb Control Lever

If you got more than this, my manuals don't tell me what they are.

[Wittpilot]

Snuffy, as far as I know you are correct on the levers...

On to our project for the holiday break.....

My father, brother, & I are working on a new mural for the new museum... Dad's the artist, brother is in college as an art major.... and I help reposition the ladder. Okay so I try and slow things down as much as possible and pick up a paint brush from time to time... They are the brains, I just paint what I'm told... but here's a rough beginnig after the first day.

It should be noted, that similar to the last mural, this one was used by a Flight Simulator still projected up onto the wall.

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/4383/photoqb.jpg (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/photoqb.jpg/)

[Marlin]

My father, brother, & I are working on a new mural for the new museum... Dad's the artist, brother is in college as an art major.... and I help reposition the ladder. Okay so I try and slow things down as much as possible and pick up a paint brush from time to time... They are the brains, I just paint what I'm told... but here's a rough beginnig after the first day.

It should be noted, that similar to the last mural, this one was used by a Flight Simulator still projected up onto the wall.



Are the one responsible for the WoP FSX screenshot?
If so, that whole deal is ALL yours baby, and you have your family doing the dirty work. :mixedsmi:

But in the end it is all good regardless! You guys are doing a great job and have my thanks for keeping this thread updated. Thank you again.:USA-flag:

[Wittpilot]

Are the one responsible for the WoP FSX screenshot?


Are you talking about the WoP splashscreen? Sorry Marlin I didn't make out what you were referenicing... If you were hinting at what FS plane we used, that will reman a secret....(because I don't know which one they used)

[Wittpilot]

Day II


http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/1466/securedownloadyx.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/securedownloadyx.jpg/)

[Marlin]

Oh ya, now were are talking! :applause:

[Snuffy]

Lookin good Witt! :ernae:

[Wittpilot]

Worked on the other seat structure today.... Nearly done... Also got the bead back for the pilots seat from heat treat...The back end is mobile now preparing for the radio room to be built... And a close-up of the mural underway in the new museum...

[Wittpilot]

Getting the B-25 ready for the big Doolittle Reunion this Spring.... I'll have some good pictures from an actual camera next weekend...and not from my phone...

[Wittpilot]

Had our twice a year banquet for the volunteers.... First time everyone got to see the new painting... Grabbed a few pics... plus the Autogyro...

[Quicksand]

Beautiful shots, Witt!:medals:

[Snuffy]

Congrats to the Team Witt! :applause: :salute:

[Trans_23]

Great looking project Witt. Thanks for the pictures. Do these rebuilt planes need a stamp on approval from the FAA before they fly? Just wondering.

[Wittpilot]

I would assume they would all need a certificate of some type, whether it would be experimental, or likewise that would be granted by the FAA...

[Curtis P40]

:applause::applause: Great looking mural! Have you seen or heard the Piticairn fly? I bet it has a sound all of it's own. This months EEA SportAviation mag had a pretty good article on it.
Curt:kilroy:

[Wittpilot]

Unfortunately I have not... One day I was out at the airport when it was suppose to fly, but the wind was not favorable for the event... Air Classics had a nice article on it as well a few months back...

[b24_witchcraft]

Nice looking mural Witt - enjoyed seeing the progress so far. :ernae:

[Wittpilot]

Insert drum roll here.....

What we have here folks, is one complete pilot's chair.... Now we are working on attatching it to the seat frame...... It has taken two days to try and do that thusfar, we keep hitting glitches.... I did make mention this evening that I think this seat has seen more action than any B-17 in all of WWII.

[Snuffy]

Wow! Witt, glad to see the chair made it to completion before the plane did!

Good job too btw! LOL!

[Wittpilot]

So even after checking and double checking, we found out we made a part on the seat out of aluminum and it should have been made out of steel. So most of the evening was devoted to remaking those parts. I snapped a photo of the door to the hangar as you walk in. I would say by the end of this month we will have a completed seat and frame to place inside the cockpit and sit in and make airplane noises.....

-witt

[Hals und Bein Bruch]

NICE!!!:jump:

[Panther_99FS]

Witt,
You're definitely experiencing a very rewarding process.....:applause:

[Snuffy]

I'm still very very VERY jealous.

Congrats for being a part of the LB club.

[Wittpilot]

Here are some pics I took last week. Still trying to fit the seat to the frame correctly. It is difficult since our seat is 'off' a bit in different aspects so it is going to take a little finagling (sp)??? to get it right.

What's the old phrase? Rome wasn't built in a day right?

And, here's how the "Lady" looks on one side currently...

[Wittpilot]

Climbed up on a table tonight for a higher view.... Note the Kevlar Cheek guns... They came from a shop up north from what I hear, from a very prominent figure in both aviation, and auto racing... Any guesses?

-witt

[Bomber_12th]

Thank you for the photos, Witt! My guess would be that Jack Roush's shop must be the group responsible for the molding of the cheek-gun blisters...I know they have made molded-copies of other items, such as replicate drop tanks and bombs for Mustangs in the past. When painted, you wouldn't notice the difference, whether they were metal or kevlar. Aluminum Overcast, for instance, flies with a replica carbon-fiber nose turret, but you would never know otherwise.

It's really great to see the progress being made!

[Wittpilot]

I meant to grab a photo of this last week, but the battery on my phone gave out...

This is the jig they will use for the radio room...

[Wittpilot]

So there comes a time in the course of human events.... when you must have a little something to push you through to that next level. Having worked on our pilot's seat and frame for almost two years, it was time for a little burst of encouragement. So that is indeed what we did. You could say it was one of those, "Ah, what the hell" type of moments.... Followed by several minutes of, "If this **)#@&$# doesn't fit................" Let me tell you, for a second it was touch & go and I thought dad was going to lose it.... But guess what, the sucker fit fine......

FYI, You must note that I do look like crap in all the photos I take at the airport because by that time I have been up working on my feet all day at the factory for over 13 hours. But, have a look...

Not completely done yet, still some small things to be done...

It was hard to get back into a B-17 mood... I'm still on a B-25 high...

[Snuffy]

Two years?!! LOL!

Looks good Witt ... and yeah, if I was Dad and after two years your masterpiece didn't fit, I'd blown a gasket too!

Congrats and thanks for updates.

[Wittpilot]

I know the updates have been sparse... but so has my free time.

Work, Work... little more work... Fortunately we are going back to 5 day work weeks!

Here is one of the radio room seats that some students in my dad's class is punching out... Needless to say, the "rate of production" is slightly better the second time around. Also, we are working on the co-pilot's seat, and we are working pretty quickly on that as well.

[Snuffy]

Thanks for the update Witt.

Keep up the good work!

:salute:

[Wittpilot]

Boy, I bet you guys thought I'd given up on this didn't you... well it has been a really busy summer... and sometimes I'm just plain too damn tired to really accomplish a whole lot after work. But here's a few i took last week...

[Snuffy]

Looks good Witt ... I still wanna see the top turret and its associated machinery. ;)

[Wittpilot]

Took this at Thunder Over Michigan. Three major B-17 restorations all had tents set up.

Our Pilot's Chair...

[Wittpilot]

Grabbed a shot of the bombracks in place. You can also see the famous "rope". Quite helpful when navigating through the plane when you're in a hurry... Also the fiberglass cheek gun ready to be attatched.

-witt

[Trans_23]

Looks like things are moving along nicely Witt. My kids just took an inside tour of "Nine O Nine" a few weeks ago at the Kankakee Airport. Nothing like being in the real thing as a good learning tool.

[Snuffy]

Good Lookin Family Trans! 909 is a good plane to visit.

Witt, she's coming together ... keep up the good work bud.

:applause:

[stansdds]

Grabbed a shot of the bombracks in place. You can also see the famous "rope". Quite helpful when navigating through the plane when you're in a hurry... Also the fiberglass cheek gun ready to be attatched.

-witt
Ah, yes, the ropes. Walking through Nine-O-Nine during flight with an old, full size VHS camcorder was a real thrill. All I could think about was the pre-flight briefing and being told to not fall off the catwalk. Landing on the bomb bay doors would likely result in them opening and me being gone for good.

[Wittpilot]

They slapped the Norden Bombsight in the nose for the crowds coming for the Fly-In this weekend.
-witt

[Snuffy]

Please tell me Witt that they really didn't just "slap" the norden in place ... I hope they took their time and placed it with care! ;)

[Wittpilot]

Sorry Snuffy, poor word choice. Not it wasn't just thrown up there. It is sitting on it's perch just as Boeing intended.

[Wittpilot]

If you are a faithful follower of this thread.....
See here....

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=44294&p=494573#post494573

[Wittpilot]

Champaign Lady moved to her new home recently. Just to the north in the new museum hangar.... I have stolen some photos from the museum's website of the move since I couldn't be there.

[Wittpilot]

Some photos from Thursday. Work begins, and is progressing nicely on the top turret. That is original stock plexi I do believe. And can anyone guess what went in this little "bay"?
-witt

[Allen]

Some photos from Thursday. Work begins, and is progressing nicely on the top turret. That is original stock plexi I do believe. And can anyone guess what went in this little "bay"?
-witt

Hopefully a little bomb...:jump:

[OBIO]

Witt

Thanks for sharing all the pics and updates...very interesting watching a B-17 come back together.

Looking at the pic of the belly turret on it's support frame...I couldn't help but see Darth Vader sitting inside that thing....his fighter thingie looked like a Fort's belly turret with side plates.

OBIO

[Wittpilot]

Hopefully a little bomb...:jump:
Not quite... It is actually the bay underneath the radio room where they kept the camera that took pictures of the target as they dropped the bombs.

[Wittpilot]

Witt

Thanks for sharing all the pics and updates...very interesting watching a B-17 come back together.

Looking at the pic of the belly turret on it's support frame...I couldn't help but see Darth Vader sitting inside that thing....his fighter thingie looked like a Fort's belly turret with side plates.

OBIO

Yes Obio, I believe in an earlier post I make mention of this exact same observation!

[Allen]

Not quite... It is actually the bay underneath the radio room where they kept the camera that took pictures of the target as they dropped the bombs.

I thought thats what the Radio guy did. They just tied a rope to him and hung him out the bomb bay!:jump:

[Wittpilot]

Okay, been a long time I know... But I grabbed some shots from our appreciation banquet/dinner....

Top turret shell & th new floors/table in the nose....More to come soon!

[Willy]

Thanks for the update Witt!

[Curtis P40]

Question for ya Witt. I can see in the first pic part of the top turret protruding into the cockpit area. Is this going to have a complete turret ? I've been through four different B-17's and none had the turret inside the aircraft. Only two had the complete ball turret. I know it would be a pain for ground tours. Last summer I helped our local EAA with the Sentimental Journey. I was in the cockpit and had a hard time not laughing at some of the comments made by people after climbing up from the nose only to be met by the bomb bay bulkhead and catwalk. Would love to see the "whole" turret in there:jump:

[Wittpilot]

Question for ya Witt. I can see in the first pic part of the top turret protruding into the cockpit area. Is this going to have a complete turret ? I've been through four different B-17's and none had the turret inside the aircraft. Only two had the complete ball turret. I know it would be a pain for ground tours. Last summer I helped our local EAA with the Sentimental Journey. I was in the cockpit and had a hard time not laughing at some of the comments made by people after climbing up from the nose only to be met by the bomb bay bulkhead and catwalk. Would love to see the "whole" turret in there:jump:

This is a rather large problem in the B-17 circle... Very few full turret's remain in existence. That is probably the biggest reason why you do not see them very often. Another reason leading up to that you already touched on, comfort. In Liberty Belle for example, it allows us to fit two seats for riders right behind the pilot & copilot. This would make for a very cramped ride w/ the turret in place. Also, I think weight would also play a little part...probably not much though.

We had parts for a complete top turret. Unfortunately I believe they belonged to the famous, or as most are finding out infamous, Tom Reilly. They are no longer in our hangar I don't think. Not sure what the plans are. I'd think we'd have to build the thing from scratch which would be a monumental task. However, every effort possible is being made to make this THE most accurate "fresh from the factory" B-17 flying in the world.... So only time will tell...

Did that answer your question?
-witt

[Curtis P40]

Yes, you did Witt. I was just wishing :icon_lol: but really understand how much prime space would be "wasted." Haven't heard about this fellow Tom Reilly...
Thanks, Curt

[Willy]

Never heard of him either.

[Bomber_12th]

Mr. Reilly is very well known in the warbird/restoration community - has led the restoration of numerous warbirds for the past three decades, including WWII bombers, fighters, trainers, and is currently advancing quite well on restoring an airworthy P-82. Among many other things, he and his company did restoration work on the B-17 "Nine O Nine", "Liberty Belle", "Suzy Q", and I believe will be working on Don Brooks' other B-17 project, 44-83790. I don't know much about the guy personally, but his name pops up quite frequently in the warbird world, as he has restored quite a variety of aircraft (currently with an F4U and P-38 in his shop, among other things).

As always Witt, thank you for the updates/photos! I bet it is a good bit of a morale-booster to see the turret shell in place!

[Wittpilot]

Tom is without a doubt an intriguing character... When he was in charge of of maintenance with Liberty Belle, he let my 15 year old brother climb up in the cockpit by himself and do small things... i.e. open the cowl flaps, lower the wing flaps...etc... He is a nice guy... A bit of a smooooooth talker really.... He'd make a great car salesman! I mean, how many others could have talked Walter Soplata out of that P-82???

The Champaign Aviation Museum obtained a B-25 restored by Reilly.... That was several years ago... It hasn't flown since. It has been worked on since they got it.... A lot of things had to be changed out or fixed.....Anybody putting two and two together yet?

Yes his airplanes fly, you can "kick the tires & light the fires" so to speak.... but with Reilly it is a question of how long will you be kicking!
-witt

[Curtis P40]

Sounds like my old boss. lol

[Wittpilot]

Greetings All

A few more small glimpses. The new floor in the nose, and we are beginning to fit the bead on the co-pilot's seat. This was indeed a task because we made the bead more round and pinched it extra tight. This made the bead look much better, but made it next to impossible to slip over the curve in the bottom of the seat.

We got it on, and we are beginning to rivet it on.

-witt

[Wittpilot]

Progress is slow lately. I haven't noticed anything major changing. I think there is a lot of work being done on a lot of small things.

Here's our co-pilot's chari with the bead in place. Now we must set it on the chair just right, a very hard task.

[Wittpilot]

Thought it was time for another update from B-17 land!

Actually got some stuff done tonight... Made the pieces that mount between the radio operators seat & the seat mount.

[Wittpilot]

Bottom skin of the radio room put on finally and the Top Turret painted & with some of the machine gun workings in place....

[Wittpilot]

Sorry to everyone for getting away from the thread for awhile. I have been pretty busy with work and the loss of my other B-17...................(large sigh)......... But I will try and update regularly once again....

Some updates via photos.....

The last photo is of a seat that will NOT go into Champaign Lady, but another B-17 which shall remain nameless....Why? Just to drive everyone crazy....

[Allen]

I'll place my bets on that seat is for the USAF. Will end up in the "Memphis Belle" or "The Swoose"

You can "neither confirm, nor deny that claim" like you did with the seat that you used from the USAF like you did way way back on page 3.:mixedsmi:

[Wittpilot]

HA! I forgot all about that! I wish I remember what picture that was... I am thinking the other pic on page 3 I actually took AT the Air Force Museum.... The seat is mostly original and we had to make a new bottom because the original was almost all gone.

[Wittpilot]

Big Big Big step in the right direction...

Check this out!! Two down, one to go!!!

And no, the pilot & co-pilot seats are not done.... we can only work on the same seat so long before we have to quit before someone kills somebody...

[BurningBeard]

I really enjoy this thread, open it up every time.

Beard

[Wittpilot]

Thanks Beard... I try & keep it up as often as I can.... Look for updates!

[Railrunner130]

My hat is off to the restoration folks. They are usually volunteers that spend thousands of hours to recreate a work of art.

[GT182]

Witt, do you guys need a Norden bombsight? I might know where there's one to be had. Not totally sure but I can check.

[Wittpilot]

Thanks Gary... Someone donated one years ago when we first got started.... Good looking out though!

[GT182]

Ok. I wasn't sure if you guys could save the one from Liberty Belle or not.

There is one around the corner very close to me that works and is the real deal. The owner was looking to donate it to a museum that needs one.

[Wittpilot]

Ok. I wasn't sure if you guys could save the one from Liberty Belle or not.

There is one around the corner very close to me that works and is the real deal. The owner was looking to donate it to a museum that needs one.

If he is looking to donate it to an organization, I will ask some folks down it Atlanta if Liberty Belle's sight was saved.... I really have no idea, looking from pictures, it could have made it through the fire, but I'm not sure. I'll get back with you though this weekend...

-witt

[Railrunner130]

I'm afraid to ask, because I'm afraid of the answer. What was done with the old girl?

Hopefully, they put her on a flatbed and sent her to someone who can make her productive in some form.

[Wittpilot]

PM sent Gary

[Wittpilot]

I'm afraid to ask, because I'm afraid of the answer. What was done with the old girl?

Hopefully, they put her on a flatbed and sent her to someone who can make her productive in some form.

Last I saw or heard she is sitting at an airfield close to her spot of her final landing.... I saw pictures somewhere on the net of her... But I can't remember where... I'll see if I can dig it up. Frankly, it was not a sight that I really wanted to remember!

We are still waiting on the insurance company. We are all anxiously waiting to see what direction the Foundation takes. I knwo for several us that work for the Foundation that are yet to be "in the know" are dying inside as the months drag on awaiting news as to our next step. Though, as Ray stated, we are dedicated to the preservation of vintage aviation... So I think we will continue down the path that we already started.....

-witt

[Wittpilot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYNTXZ92nCk&feature=player_detailpage

[Allen]

Parts to fix the B-17?

[Wittpilot]

Parts to fix the B-17?

Several parts from this airframe can be salvaged and used in Champaign Lady. I believe that is the plan.

[Wittpilot]

Right Waist ammo box......

[Wittpilot]

Okay, Show of hands... who forgot about this thread......... *note that I raised my hand right there...

Work continues.... Slooooowly... We are still trying to finish the seats... We pretty much have the seats themselves finally fabricated. We are now back to focussing on the frames. We are having trouble with the mechanism that moves the seat forward and up and down. One of the seats was original, the other we had to make. Of course the one we had to make didn't work quite right... and we have had to re-make the part 3 times! The last time we made the part, I left before we test fit it... I feared that if it didn't work, the part would be permamentely implanted somewhere on my body.....

Here are some shots of some things laying around, the seats, and some parts from the trip to Alaska...

[Wittpilot]

I grabbed some pictures around the place last week...

You can see the new tail, and the tail retrieved from Alaska last summer.
The framework for the Radio Room top window and the top of the Radio Room itself.
Beginning of the engine nacelles.
Dad finally finished the artwork completely on both sides... This is how she appears on the left side... He said he regrets painting it on both sides because it was really difficult to get it to look exactly the same since it was all hand painted. If he paints another, he will stick to the one side.

-witt

[Wittpilot]

They have added the framework for the top of the radio operators room. Also, they have moved the plane more towards the center of the floor since work has begun on the wings.

[Wittpilot]

So recently I had a change of occupation which means I stay at home with the kids during the day, and work in the evenings. Which also means, no more weekly airport night. Hopefully I will begin to find more and more time to go, but I have only been a couple of times in the last few months.

Here is some of the progress recently.

Back of the fuselage mated, and the turtledeck coming together.
-witt


http://imageshack.us/a/img819/3796/31050091.jpg




http://imageshack.us/a/img836/5215/14196038.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img341/3194/48685800.jpg

[Wittpilot]

Folks, Wanted to re-activate this age-old thread. Lots of changes over the years... I will try and post some photos later this evening.

In the mean time, the museum has changed their website and have re-installed the 24-hour webcam that we had at the old hangar.

www.champaignaviationmuseum.org


Check it out...You will probably see me later tonight!

-witt

[Willy]

Glad to see some progress!

[Skyhawk_310R]

Love seeing all those klinkos and other temporary fasteners. That's good old fashioned aluminum work!

Ken

[StormILM]

Glad to see it's still coming along! Can hardly wait to see it finished. This is a photo of my late Uncle(Ssgt Dwight Upton, Ball Turret Gunner) shaking hands with 381stBG Commander, Colonel Harry Leber during a Medal ceremony at Ridgewell Station 167 on November 19th 1944. In early 1945, the crew my Uncle served with reached their 35 mission mark and rotated home. Their B-17G(Boulder Buf) was destroyed on a mission soon after the replacement crew took over. Also attached other photos of the Crew and B-17G my Uncle served on.
949379493694935

[Wittpilot]

Just some shots from tonight. As you can see the tail was mounted earlier this summer. Work continues on the engine nacelles as well as the horizontal stabilizer. The damaged horizontal is from the wreck in Alaska the crew visited a few years ago. Also, the .55 assembly line grinds on....





http://imageshack.us/a/img208/6783/iap6.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/215/6u8b.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img546/4176/b7h6.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img59/240/rl7c.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img38/1824/d9kh.jpg

[Wittpilot]

Over the last several months we have been experimenting with the best way to make these rib sections for the horizontal. It is very much a trial and error process. When these were mass produced they were able to essentially stamp these things out with no problem. Without that type of machinery around, we are forced to work every single piece like this by hand.
3869

[Daveroo]

whats the story on the DC3/C47 in the background with "Desert Air" writen on it?..

[Wittpilot]

whats the story on the DC3/C47 in the background with "Desert Air" writen on it?..

I can only tell you what I know. When the guys were originally buying up some airplanes, they bought a T-6 to get some taildragger time in, and I believe they were probably looking at a DC-3 to get some larger taildragger time in. The famous, or probably more infamous now, Tom Reilly knew of a DC-3 in Columbus that had been a non-flyer for awhile. It was made ferry-able to get it here and has sat since.... Interestingly enough, it has two B-17 props on it !

Here's some info from the net:


This aircraft was built as C-47B 43-48459 and delivered to the USAAF during August 1944. No record card for its service is available, but it continued serving with the USAF after the war. At some point it was given to a military museum at the Tri-Cities Airport, Freeland, MI, but the museum closed in 1974 and sold the plane that December. On 3/27/74 it was registered as N47071 to Texas Turbo Jet, Inc of Dallas. On 1/12/76 it became N85FA with Falcon Airways in Addison, TX. Became N105CA in Nov. 1982 and has changed hands a few times since.


I know they were trying to track down it's actual military history but I don't know if anything had been uncovered.

[Wittpilot]

Small video with the old man on the museum's YouTube channel talking about how they came about the noseaert.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYWfR04XZXg

[Wittpilot]

Hey All,
Just wanted to see if there is still interest in this thread...If so, I'll keep it going. Have been super busy this year but as winter is here, have a bit more time on to do some posting.

-Witt

[StormILM]

Please do! Any new B-17 restoration & return to the air is worthy of keeping in loop!

[Curtis P40]

Yep :wavey:

[stansdds]

I'm still interested. :wiggle:

[Wittpilot]

Okay, here are just a few photos from the last few weeks... Tail was removed for a bit, and now has been replaced for good. Mounts for the cheek guns... & my brother making a bombing run somewhere over the Third Reich....

-witt

[Bushpounder]

It the third picture part of the vertical tail structure, center, maybe?

Don

[Bomber_12th]

Witt, I too would love to continue to see more progress photos and reports from the restoration! I've of course been following the progress posted to the WIX forum as well (noting a familiar individual in a couple of the latest photos). ; )

Don, the third photo in Witt's last post is one of the rear inboard wing spars getting built up.

[StormILM]

Wish I lived close to you guys, if I did, I'd volunteer every spare moment to the effort!

[Bushpounder]

Thanks, John! I wasn't sure on the length of the piece due to the angle. Great shots!

Don

[Wittpilot]

Yep, Sorry I missed a photo there... John your knowledge still astounds me to this day... I can see you seriously being a large figure in the decades to come as our parents and the previous generation of warbird keepers begins to move on...

Yes... Dad took some photos of those infamous seats...

If some of you remember, the very first thing I started working on were the seats...that was close to a decade ago now.... since then they have been brushed aside... & we have worked on a few things since. Well I was tired of making ribs for the elevator so I suggested we test fit those seats to see if the mechanics work correctly.... forward and back, and up & down.... We have the pilots seat in, and the copilots seat will get fitted this week...

-witt

[Wittpilot]

Here's the photos Bomber was talking about....

[Bomber_12th]

It's pretty astounding to see the pilots armor plate panels fitted, since none of the B-17's currently flying have those!

[stansdds]

It's pretty astounding to see the pilots armor plate panels fitted, since none of the B-17's currently flying have those!

I agree, it's really nice to see any warbird restored to as close to 100% authentic as possible.

[Wittpilot]

It's pretty astounding to see the pilots armor plate panels fitted, since none of the B-17's currently flying have those!


The ultimate goal is to have the most accurate B-17 flying in the world. Since everything is essentially being built from the Boeing drawings, that is why a lot of stuff you will see in this aircraft that has been removed over the years in other airframes. I must say I am not a huge fan of the armor plating. I think it just looks odd with it in there, and coming from the flying standpoint, it's right there in your face if you are standing in the cockpit. It is obviously aluminum and not steel because of the ease of build and weight... It's accurate, but I'm not a huge fan of it....

-Witt