GMAX.

[PomBee]

Hi Guys,

Can someone tell me where I can get GMAX. I've downloaded the 1.2 version from Turbosquid and Brothersoft, but when I run the installation program it installs FRAPS!! Useful for screenshots, etc, but not what I wanted. I may just be being thick, but there seems to be no GMAX installer.

Cheers,

PomBee.:ernae:

[Milton Shupe]

Try this one: http://files.turbosquid.com/Products/L567271/XFM83W83US/gmax12.exe

YOu will ultimately need some plugins to get to Makemdl as well. That wouold be FSModelExp.dll which does the .x file export and Makemdl that compiles the code into a .mdl file, or .asm as you require.

[PomBee]

Thanks Milton. I tried that link again, and got the same result. I then tried running the installer instead of saving it, and it worked fine.

Could you point me in the right direction to get FSModelExp.dll and Makemdl?

Cheers,

PomBee.:ernae:

Update: Found Makemdl, just need FSModelExp.dll.

[sc7500]

Here Ya Go !

30188

SC
:kilroy:

[gavinc]

Hi,
There is a CFS2 GMAX Gamepack available here
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/page.php?lloc=downloads&loc=downloads&page=info&FileID=6922
that apparently allows you to export directly into CFS2. Can't comment on how well it works as I can't even manage to build a brick in GMAX let alone export one to CFS2

Gavin

[PomBee]

Thanks for that, SC. I couldn't find it anywhere.

And thanks, Gavin for the link to the game pack. I'm sure that it's going to be a LONG time until I can do anything useful with it! I'll have to get the tutorials from Turbosquid, and have a go. Now that the snow has really arrived in the Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia, I'll have some VERY long winter evenings to practice.

Cheers,

PomBee.:salute::salute::salute:

[tobob]

Pombee,

Do the basic tutorials included with GMAX. They help you get used to the layout of the program and the most useful tools. It will seem like a different language until you memorize the buttons and there functions. Once you're familiar with it try Milton's tutorial. It's easy to follow and gain more knowledge of the program. GMAX can be a bear but once you get it, there's no turning back. I'm no expert but if you have any questions feel free to fire at will.

p.s. 3ds Max tutorials are plentiful and helpful also.

Good luck!

tobob

[tony2]

There are some good tutorials on Youtube. Just put in GMAX tutorials - aircraft.
Hope this helps

[PomBee]

Thanks for all the help, Guys. That's what's so great about SOH. If you have a question, there's always folks who are more than willing to help you out.:salute::salute::salute:

Cheers,

PomBee.:ernae:

[Pen32Win]

Howdy PomBee;

While you are a TurboSquid you might want to download some of the free .gmax and .3ds files that they have there. I've found seeing first hand what others have done very educational.

Right now I'm in the process of getting back into GMax and as a starter project I'm converting my old US 40mm flak gun crew members to German Soldiers. It has been a good way for me to get started again. Even after all I've done with GMax I felt like I got something accomplished last night after creating a new German Helmet for them. Tonight's re-lesson will be creating and applying new textures to them. By the time I get the 5 LOD's of Crew members completed I should be ready to once again start something completely new. the best advice I can offer you is, start small and simple, break complex thing down to simple elements and always remember the Little steps add up.

[PomBee]

Hi Pen,

Great to see you back at SOH. Thanks for the heads-up about the GMax goodies at Turbosquid. I'll take it steady (little steps, as you suggest), and try not to get too ahead of myself.

Cheers,

PomBee.:ernae:

[Pen32Win]

It's good to be back, if only on a limited basis until the end of July. One the thing that used to get me frustrated was that there are sooooo many commands and trying to figure them all out. I'm finding that again....LOL I've taken my own advice on the road back and just try to concentrate on one thing each night I get a chance to work on it. Like I said in my last post tonight was just to get textures mapped on to an object and working with the two major commands involved with it.

This was the nights results, these AA Troops used to be the three US troops from my old 40mm Bofors... Now they're close to ready for the Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe. I also did a quick and dirty MG-42 just to see if I could....

30324

For the three troops and the MG-42 it ended up about 1600 polys whicj isn't too bad for the LOD_100 model. That'll get cut down quite a bit by the LOD_10 model.

[PomBee]

Looking very nice, Pen. I hope that I can produce something even half as good.

PomBee.:salute::salute::salute:

[Pen32Win]

Thanks and you will. Today was one of those day where bad turns out good. I was supposed to be at an event today but my truck battery took dump and it took me about 5 hours to get a jump. While I was waiting I decided I'd see if I could get through the whole process and actually produce a bgl. So I took the MG-42 and built an AA Tripod for it. I then Merged a couple of the rebuilt troops into the Scene and reconfigured their arms and legs to fit. Then I started whackin' polys for the other 4 LOD's. I got that done and then went and got a new battery... By the time I got back home it was too late to go to the event so I went back to work on it. Then the fun part!!! I did a DMG Model and then pulled out my old notes on creating the BLG. After a bit of trial and error I got the Merge and Link Routine figured out again.

The best part is I actually got a working Multi-LOD bgl!!! I can't do much with it until I get a new Power Supply and Flight Controller but it showed up in the MB... Now I'm ready to help other folks out too with the process. So it ended up being a pretty productive day after all...

[PomBee]

Superb! That's some fine work.

I probably won't get to do much with it for a while, but when I do, I know who to come to for help. I've got to replace my computer with something that actually works. At the moment, I'm trying to do everything on an old Dell Latitude laptop, and it isn't up to the job. It's also got problems of it's own, which doesn't help. We had to leave all of our PCs in the UK when we emigrated to Nova Scotia, as they probably wouldn't work over here, so we need to buy something soon.

Cheers,

PomBee.:ernae:

[Pen32Win]

While the Computer hole I'm in is not as deep as yours I know the frustration. When I first fired my Flight Sim PC back up the 500W Power Supply kept cutting out every time it got warm. I still had the original 350W it came with but it's not enough to run my Video Card. So I had to reinstall all of my old stuff until I can get a new P/S. On the bright side the old stuff does fine with GMax and my computer isn't rebooting itself every 5 minutes. Gotta get that and a new Flight Controller too. Trying to slew around to eyeball new objects with a K/B only is a real pain.

Yesterday I saw a command I've never used before and am going to have to give it a try. Using a "Background Image". I think it might speed up the developement process. I'll let you know how it works out.

[Steve2112]

GMAX - Is FUN!
Truly is amazing when you export into CFS2 and see your first object that you created.
After two weeks this is my first well actually second creation.
It's all most complete, I am finally giving up on adding night maps. I spent two days trying to configure them. I give up. I don't think CFS2 supports them.
So moving on to completion very soon now.
Pen32Win - If you have time any tips you can throw my way as far as setting up LOD's and the process of adding them that would be awesome.
Also I’m going to need a beta tester or two to test out my new creation.
305973059830599

Steve2112

[PomBee]

Beautiful work, Steve2112. I'll definitely d/l that when it's available.

Cheers,

PomBee.:ernae:

[Pen32Win]

OK Steve;

We'll take this thing in phases....

Phase I. I keep each of my LOD's in a separate file. Each File is named something like this:

2112_Lighthouse_LOD_100.gmax
2112_Lighthouse_LOD_80.gmax
2112_Lighthouse_LOD_60.gmax
2112_Lighthouse_LOD_30.gmax
2112_Lighthouse_LOD_10.gmax

Copy each file and stick them in a safe place. Your emergency backups.

Now, Open Each file and do the following....

Select Everything in the file. Go to the Group menu and select Ungroup.
This ensures you don't end up with groups inside of groups in the final product.

Go to the Parts Listing (Part Hierarchy) menu and make sure you don't see anything in brackets like this "[Roof01]" it should just be "Roof01".

Now Select everything again and go to the Group Menu once again. Select Group and name the group something like this "Lighthouse_Lit_LOD_100". The name will corrispond to the file name and its LOD Level.

Save the File.... Then repeat for each of the other LOD Level Files...... and I'll be back later....

[Pen32Win]

Hi Steve;

From the other thread you have going am I to understand that you don't have the LOD_100 model completed right now?

If that's true it's actually a good thing. One thing a lot of 3D Developers do not do is clean up their work. That is to eliminate all of the extra poly's on the bottom and inside of objects that will never be seen. Even though they're not seen CFS2 still renders them which slows down your FPS.

One thing I've got to warn you about this process of cleaning up... It's why I always wait until the very last to apply bmp textures to objects. Example, you have a box sitting on the ground, you apply a bmp texture to it, add the UVW Map Modifier and then Unwrap UVW. You then going into Unwrap UVW and get the polys aligned on the image just perfect and you save it.. Later, you come back to clean up and realize those two polys on the bottom of the box are not needed. You go in and delete the polys and close out of the object only to find your perfect image /poly alignment has gone out the window. Now you have to Delete the Unwrap UVW Modifier, then Re-Add it again to conform to the new shape of the object and then realign everything again.... Now I expect this when creating the lower LOD Models as just part of the process but; when you're working on your LOD_100 model it sure will save you time if you clean up first, then apply the bmp images.....

Time for me to go get a few things done around the house and with any luck I'll get to spend some time working on my Flak 38.

Let me know when you're ready to proceed.

[Pen32Win]

Well the German AA Project is starting to take shape. I had to pick the worst of them to start with!! LOL The Mount the Flak 38 is really something else. It's no wonder they could never produce enough of the things, they're over engineered to all beat Hades. Unlike the US Bofors this thing has got more twists and turns that a 40 ft. python. It's like some kind of sadistic erector set!!! LOL. I'm going to have to do some serious poly hacking on the lower LOD's. I'm at 1200 polys already and that doesn't include the gun carraige, gun, sights, seat, controls, magazines or the 2 man crew..... BTW, the tube in the middle is just a place holder for sizing.
30663

[Steve2112]

Looking good Pen32Win.
So my system crashed and I am just now getting back up and running.
Few questions here before I move onto LOD's.
Flipping Poly's? Not sure what you are referring to here please define this step and or the process of preparing my object for LOD.

Thanks
Steve2112

[Robert John]

Pen32Win
I Still taking longer to clean up the
models,sometimes longer than to build them.lol.
as well as getting rid of all hidden polys I keep
some almost hidden polys just in case you get
up real close I also get rid of unneeded vertices.
In cfs2 the engine does count polys (actually
the graphic card reads triangles)
In fsx engine unlimited polys but counts
vertices.A good read about this over at the
fsdevelopers forum.
Steve2112
Flip a poly
To model the inside of a object we can just
name a texture ds_xxx that tells the game
engine to texture both sides of a poly so now
instead of having one poly we have two and
some of these are hidden, bad for fps.
There are tutorials on the net about this.
Select a poly in editable mesh or editable poly,
clone the poly, the poly you want to flip must be
editable mesh, select poly with polygon goto
surface properties and flip, then you can attach
both polys together and have a poly with two
sides, sounds a lot of work but that way you can
model just the inside you see. ie cockpits. open
hangers. buildings with roofs blownoff etc.
Hope this helps.
lods
Make a box name xx_lod_100, make a dummy,
name dummy xx
make sure xx is x,y=0,0 and link the box to the
dummy.
clone your box name it xx_lod_080 and link that
box to dummy.
move xx (dummy) and all the models will move
together. there you have it lods.
Robert John

[Pen32Win]

Howdy Steve;

Flipping Poly's? I didn't post anything about flipping them....????
But, Roberts post is a good take on it.

Howdy Robert,
I use "Poly" for the sake of continuity of discussion, two triangles in CFS2 = 1 Poly most everywhere else... Including GMax. Thanks for the link. I'll give it a read.

[Steve2112]

Looks to me like my understanding of prepping my object prior to creating LODS is on the money.
So now I will begin on my LOD's.

Thanks for the Link and Info Pen32Win and RJ.

By the way, just curious RJ what was the final Poly count on your last post of your sub pen?

Steve2112

[Steve2112]

Clarification

Ok – I just want to clarify for my own sanity here.
Creating LOD’s (Level of Detail). Seems to in tale two methods, both the same however in the end.

Method 1: In GMAX - Create your object to completion, with all the bells and whistles.
Then with your object open in GMAX create another “Dummy” object and rename it on the drop down menu to match the name of your saved object.
Example: Current GMAX object – Lighthouse_Generic.
Rename “Dummy” object to Lighthouse_Generic.
With your “Dummy” or Lighthouse_Generic object selected click on “Select & Link “ button on the tool bar and while holding down the left mouse button drag your mouse over your Lighthouse_Generic_LOD_100 object. This will allow you to set up a hierarchy so that the “Dummy” object is the parent of the objects.
Repeat this step until all of your LOD objects are linked to the parent object.
Notes: Rename each LOD object LOD_100, LOD_75, LOD_50, LOD_10. And so forth.

Questions with Method 1:
Do you create "Groups" or group all of your ojects together?
Do you need to create a series of “Groups” and then rename them all to match your LOD names? Example: Group all objects within your LOD group and rename that Group Lighthouse_Generic_LOD_100 and so forth.
Can you link to a LOD Group from the parent object and then ungroup the LOD group or do you need to keep the LOD group grouped?
Notes: Seems to me that Method 1 may have some potential link gaps and that one could potentially only link to a single object within a LOD group causing the LOD to actually not function as intended.

Method 2: In GMAX – With a “New” empty project open, create an object from the “Helper” tool bar. Click on the “Helpers” button then select or click on the “Dummy” button.
In any of the four viewports, click and drag to create a dummy object. The size of the dummy does not matter.
Save your file as “Lighthouse_Generic.gmax and close.
Open your completed project Lighthouse_Generic_LOD_100 object with all the bells and whistles.
Save your file as Lighthouse_Generic_LOD_100.gmax (If it’s not already created).
Now rename your “Lighthouse_Generic_LOD_100 to “Lighthoues_Generic_LOD_75.gmax and save. Continue this method until all of your desired LOD levels are met and created.
Open each “LOD” project and remove any unnecessary poly’s and reduce your objects poly count, save and close.
Export each LOD project and click or select “Save Files” within MAKEMDL.exe. This creates your *.ASM and your *_0ASM files.
Last step: Open your “Dummy” Parent GMAX file, in GMAX and click export. When MAKEMDL.exe pops up select “Keep Files” from the “Options” tab, then select the “LOD” tab and add each LOD file as desired. Example: Lighthouse_Generic_LOD_100, and so forth.

Questions with Method 2:
Do you need to use X.Files to add to MakeMDL.exe's LOD tab?
Can you use a completed BGL? Or?
If you have to use X.Files file types then how do you create them or export them? What program creates this X.files that MakeMDL calls for when adding LOD's.

Is there another Method or process?

Just a little clarification would be great. I would actually prefer to use method 2 if it’s an option.
What are your recommendations?
Thanks

Steve2112

[Robert John]

30828

Hi all
Here is my lowpoly low texture sheet
representation of
Saint-Nicolas la rochelle
Chaine Towers
la Lanterne
work in progress
Robert John

[Pen32Win]

OK, picking up at the end of my post on the 7th.

You now have 5 files each with a single Group named for the LOD Level like this "Lighthouse_Lit_LOD_100"

Now Open your *_LOD_100.gmax File.

Create a Dummy Object and Name it the same Name You want the BGL to be....."Lighthouse_Lit" for example.

I put the Dummy object in the middle and make it just bigger that the object being created. I move the LOD_100 Group off to one side for the moment.

Next I Merge (File>Merge>Select the File with the next lower LOD>Select the Group from the List) the other 4 LOD's into the current file. I line them up in order across the bottom of the screen with the Dummy Object Above them. (Top View)

Next Select the Select and Link Tool. Click on your LOD_100 Group and Drag. You should see a little chain link as you move towards the Dummy Object with a dotted line trailing back to the LOD_100 Group. When you get to the Dummy object it will highlight it and you can release.

Do this for the other 4 LOD_# Groups. Now open your Track View Tool. Under Objects you should just see the Dummy Object. Click on the + sign next to it and you should then see all of your LOD Groups under it. The Dummy is the Parent, the LOD's the Children.

One last thing. Line up your groups back in the center. I use the X, Y, Z Coords at the bottom to ensure they're all in the same spot.

Then Save your work.

Now you're ready to export the whole thing.

Gotta run for a few hours......

[Steve2112]

Ok - So then all of the LOD's are made inside my main Gmax file.
Where I group the main object and clone it and make copies to create more LOD's? Correct?
Then I link them all to the "Dummy" object.
Then I export it.
So I take it you do not use "X" files? I take it you don't use MLDCommader? Or do you?
If so at what stage?
I have seen a few differant methods of creating LOD's and I was just curious which one you used.
Also how are you configuring your FS2002 SDK pack.
Are you changing any of your code in your Target Line:
/cfs2 /fs8- /dll /debug /fullmat /softmat /specularcanopy

Are you adding a Parameterfile? If so where are you adding it?
Lots of fun questions.

Steve2112

[Pen32Win]

"Ok - So then all of the LOD's are made inside my main Gmax file."
After you Merge them they will be.

"Where I group the main object and clone it and make copies to create more LOD's? Correct?"
No, the Merge process will bring them into the LOD_100.gmax File as a new Group. As you go throught the Merge Process the Lower LOD Models will show up. The LOD_100 was already there when you opened the file. You'll do 4 Merges, one for each of the lower LOD's.

"Then I link them all to the "Dummy" object.
Then I export it. "

Yes, you'll have 5 Groups and the Dummy Object. Link them one at a time from the Model to the Dummy Object.

"So I take it you do not use "X" files? I take it you don't use MLDCommader? Or do you?
If so at what stage?"

Nope I use..
MakeMDL MiddleMan 1.3
Make BGL 2002 MSFS SDK 8.00.020403.01
BGLC
Raw2Sca
SCAM Compilier by LW
In that order. MakeMDL MiddleMan launches when I hit Export followed by Make BGL where I enter the Grid Coords and set the distance to appear.

I don't mess with the X files only the 0.asm files. This process I posted over in the Developers Forum....

As for as the FS2002 game pack I don't remember doing anything special to it. But, that was a long time ago.

Gotta run Steve. I'm going to be away for a few days. I'll check in to see how you're doing when I get back. Good Hunting!

[Steve2112]

Nice - Very Nice!
A few last questions - What determines the "Size" I don't really see any changes with the LOD's added to the BGL. Very Suttle differences so I was wondering, what is a good Size number to place in the MyObjLib.SCA file. What number do you use? Or do you leave it at Zero?
Zero seems to create what I consider a "POP" into view effect that I can't stand.
I was thinking around 35 to 40. Honestly though I have like a dozen of these lights going with NO problems, frame rates really don't even change. Smooth very smooth game play.
I’m going to really load down a hell storm mission and look for problems but I honestly don’t think I’m going to see any.
Good tutorial - Thank you very much Pen32Win. You’re the “Right Stuff”. I owe you one.:ernae:
Now off to create my model_D_0.sca file "The Damaged Object".
After that I think this puppy is ready for the show case and some beta testers.

Steve2112

[Pen32Win]

Howdy Steve;

That's great news. For the Size it's a bit of Trial and Error. I usually start out at 0.5 and go from there. If it looks too small I bump it up to 0.6. I'll put the new object in a mission and test it out against object of a similar size and go from there. It's a bit funny but I've had the same object come out a slightly different size depending on what else is in the model. For example, those AA Troops that were originally part of the US 40mm Bofors model were done at 0.5. When I converted them to German troops and put them with the MG-42 they came out smaller than the original. So I bumped them to 0.6 and they came out the same size in CFS2.

In Make BGL I set the View Distance to 10000 Meters for most stuff. If it's a very large object I'll kick it up to 12000 or so. That way you don't get that "In Your Face" bang, pop here I am.

I'm glad I could help and look forward to seeing your finished product. Congratulations, you're a GMax Developer Now!!! LOL :ernae:

[rhumbaflappy]

SIZE is the radius of the object in modeling units.

If your largest dimension is 30 meters, and you used Gmax for FS2002, then the SIZE should equal 60.

The _0.asm file will give the SIZE ( radius ) info.

SCALE determines changes in actual size by altering the modeling units proportionately.

Dick

[Robert John]

31024
Steve
In the asm_0 the size is Radius in modeling units. the model this came from the size is 383.
Hope this helps.
Robert John.

[Pen32Win]

Thank You for the correction gents. I was a little fuzzy after my trip and was backing thinkwards.:salute:

[Steve2112]

A few tweaks and I think this Lighthouse will be complete.
I have to tweak the *.dp file some. I was going to give it a low - med life point but it just is way to easy to destroy. I think I will need to go with a higher life point.
Thanks for all your help guys.
Do any of your want to beta test my Lighthouse?
It's about two or three days from being beta complete still but just let me know and I will e-mail it to you.

Steve2112

[Robert John]

To Steve
a program to make dps is dped 1.2, I used it once its ok.With this program you can make a full crash box and put in many effects.
Robert John.

[Steve2112]

Yeah I use Dped 1.21. I don't think the crash boxes are very accurate though. It almost seems like there is an altitude/height limit with them. I can not seem to get my crash boxes to envelope the top of my lighthouse. I tried exaggerating my height but still the crash box falls short and doesn’t cover the top.
Strange.

Steve2112

[Pen32Win]

Howdy Steve;

The DP "Damage Boxes" will only matter when it comes to Bombs, Bullets and Rockets hitting it.
Is that what you're saying? That you can't see bullet strikes near the top of your object?

A "Crash/Collision Box" is in the mdl/bgl. What did you end up using for the Size?
Seeing as you're doing a Lighthouse I suspect it is much taller than it is wide or long.
Did you use the height in meters for the size? Like RF said, check your asm_0.

[Pen32Win]

Things are coming along pretty well here and I'm starting to feel like it's coming back. I sure picked a challenge to start over on. This has to be the most complicated Light AA Mount ever produced. If not, yikes!!!

This is the initial version of 4 I plan on doing. It's the Post Feb '43 No Shields Version done in a base coat of "Dunkelgelb nach Muster", aka Mustard Yellow. The Post '43 With Shields version will be done in the Three Color Disruptive Pattern. After that I'll go back in time and do the same two in the early war "Dunkelgrau" aka Panzer Grey.

[Steve2112]

Yeah - I of course need to double check it but yes I was using a size half of what my 0asm file was calling for. Cool, good to know thanks guys.
Pen - that model ROCKS! You have serious GMAX skills. Nice work.:ernae:

[Robert John]

Pen32Win
Looks good.
Steve I think you can draw your model with the boxes in dped to the correct size using your gmax model to find the points and make the dp to fit x,y,z.
Robert John

[Pen32Win]

Thanks Gents;

I've almost got both of the LOD_100 versions done though I've got to work on the textures some more. I'm not quite happy with them yet. The 3 Tone Disruptive Pattern is too pixilated for my taste. But, the base models are getting very close. Then the real fun begins, chopping down these little mosters. They're both over 4000 polys and by LOD_10 I want them down to 900-1000. I'm aiming LOD_80 and LOD_60 to be decreases of about 500 polys each. Then very large drops in LOD_30 and LOD_10. BTW, all of these numbers include the crew members.

Until I started my research I never realized that the Flak 38 20mm was the most numerous German AA Weapon deployed. I think those figures may include the Flak 38 and the Flakvierling 38 which was the Quad Mount (and next on my list). The ETO is about to get much more dangerous for Allied Pilots. After I get these 20mm's done I'm going after the 37mm's. Once I get all 4 of these weapons done I'm going to do something I've never done before, make them mobile, as in AFV's. I'm thinking about starting that venture with the Panzer IV Chassis as so many different AFV's were created from it. It's also one of the least done for CFS2. I know of one, I think it's an F2, and it's done in Afrika Corp colors.

Anyways, here's the Flak 38 with Shields Up!

[Pen32Win]

Steve;

I don't know what you have planned for your next project but the other day when I was doing research I found a cool document with all of the various German Ground Based RADAR Sites in it. When I came upon it I thought it might be right up your alley. If you're interested I'll send it to you.

[Steve2112]

Hey Pen,
You bet I'm interested. Please send me as much info as you can.

Just to let you know I"m ready to release a "Beta" test on my light house.
I will post it in the CFS2 General Discussion Forum.

Your Flak 38 is looking awesome! :jump:

Steve2112

[tobob]

Pen32Win,

I see your having no problem getting back into gmax. The models are awesome! Keep it up!

:salute:

tobob

[Pen32Win]

Thanks tobob, it's getting there little by little. When they work in CFS2 as well as they look @ LOD 100 then I'll be a happy camper.

Steve, check your PM's, I'm going to try to get a new Flight Controller this weekend. Until then I can't fly and I'm not doing the K/B thing...... BTW, You're Light House looks Cool all lit up. Very nice work.