New panel via VC screenshot - Copyright infringement?

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Hi, folks!

As posted in the Carenado thread, I currently toy with the idea to build (and release...) a new 2D Panel for the Carenado C185 Bush Skywagon which is in desperate need of a decent 2D pit.

The plan is to take a screenshot of the very nice VC and turn it into a background bitmap (with a 16:10 aspect ratio) and then add the usual gauges. Of course none of those Carenado-owned gauges will be included into the upload, just the bitmap and the customized panel.cfg. The VC parameters will remain unaltered.

Would this procedure be a violation of copyright?

Any opinions welcome.

Cheers,
Markus.

[mgr]

Hiya Markus,

Strictly i think it would, but beter save then sorry, ask Carenado.

Regards,

Marcel

[stansdds]

I would definitely ask permission since it is payware and you plan to use a part of the payware package as the background for your work.

[Milton Shupe]

Markus,

If you are simply looking to create a template (gauge placement and panel shape), you should be okay, but use none of their textures or gauges ... none ...

[racartron]

Markus,

If you are simply looking to create a template (gauge placement and panel shape), you should be okay, but use none of their textures or gauges ... none ...


Sounds like that second ...none... is pretty clear :icon_lol:

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Thanks for your answers, guys!

I think I have point this out:
None of the original files (be it a texture or gauge file) will be included!

What I have on my mind is the following:
Firing up the sim, zooming the VC view to a reasonable scale, making a screenshot.
Then editing the screenshot (turning the window areas to black, deleting the instrument faces etc.) and saving it as background BMP.
Next step is creating a new panel by adding the gauge's values - but of course none (repeat: none!) of the gauges or textures.

Only owners of the Skywagon will be able to make use of it and it's intended to encourage some more folks to buy the Carenado's package!

More opinions?

Cheers,
Markus.

[Milton Shupe]

That "sounds" okay to me Markus ...

[OBIO]

Personally, I see no problem with your plan. But, since I am not the payware company that made the plane, my view on this counts for nothing. I would suggest that you send a message to the fine folks at Correnado and explain your intentions, in detail, and ask them if they have any reservations about your project. I don't think they would have a problem with it...you are not using any of the actual texture files or gauges, just a screen shot of the VC panel edited to work as a 2D panel. And as you said, having a 2D panel available for the plane may well get them a bit of business from folks who prefer to fly via the 2D panel.

OBIO

[HighGround22]

.
Id do it and then tell them about it. Going by the old adage: "It's far easier to obtain forgiveness than permission."

Most likely, the lazy buggers'll realize that it's not everybody who has no use for a 2-D panel. Quite a few, like me, use them exclusively for operation, and only use the VC for "goofiing" (eyeballing out the windows).

So if they quote a lot of gobbledegook and turn you down, then you should maybe send a copy of your proposed panel my way -- y'know, to vet your work and determine whether it's up to par for the hoi polloi (nudge-nudge, wink-wink).

[PeteHam]

Markus, I'd be keen to see a 2D panel attatched to my 185 ;) ;)


Pete.

[edmoore235]

Markus, same here I would enjoy having a 2D panel for my purchased C185 as well. Take care.

Ed

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Thank you for your reasonable statements, gentlemen! :salute:

Once again, I'm sooo glad I've found this forum of sensible and adult simmers! :wavey:



.
"It's far easier to obtain forgiveness than permission."
I love this saying, Jon and I excessiveley make use of it in my job, but in this case I should better be more careful...


... you should maybe send a copy of your proposed panel ...
That's a splendid idea - wilco!
I could additionally spread it to a number of "beta testers" in advance ... :engel016: - anyone interested?
Just shoot me a PM.

Cheers,
Markus.

[Sunny9850]

Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with your idea of using only the screenshot and nothing else that came from Carenado to build a 2D panel.

But if there is any doubt about the legality of this even spreading it as a "Beta" version would still be a violation of the EULA.

I would build it and then send the guys at Carenado a copy to see what it would look like. But I would not share it at all before getting their OK.

Just my $0.01 :D

Stefan

[Volker Böhme]

Hi,

personally, I'm not quite sure whether it won't be a copyright infringement if you use the screenshot as a bitmap for the release version. After all, you're using their work, even though it is processed by redering it in Fs, but it is still originally their work.

I for one wouldn't be too happy about it for sure.

Don't want to spoil the party, but maybe better ask before you spread your bitmap around.

Best regards,
Volker

[dogknot]

I'm temporarily using this alternate (c185_pan.zip) from flightsim until Markus gets his approval.
I just incorporated the bitmap and its gauges call from the panel.cfg into the panel.cfg of the Carenado C185F.

For a temp 2D panel it works out fine.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

... but it is still originally their work.
That's the point!

I make use of something they've built and this is where my concerns are based on.
After all, it's more than repainting exterior textures, covered by their EULA and common sense.

And finally, it's a question of respect.

So it stands to reason to ask for permission in advance - sorry for the disabled beta-testers, but hopefully Carenado will give me a go.

Thanks for your answers!

Cheers,
Markus.

[johnh_049]

maybe use an image that's not carenado's?

http://douglasaircraftsales.com/Portals/0/185%20Panel%201.jpg

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Seems like an idea, but besides the fact that this particular image sure is copyrighted too, the charming idea of using a VC shot is to perfectly blend both views when switching.
Like Jon, I like the VC view to improve my situational awareness ("where the heck am I?") and for sightseeing purposes. A completey different appearance of the 2D cab would be rather annoying.

The 2D panel shouldn't replace the VC - it's meant to be an addition!

Cheers,
Markus.

[PeteHam]

Markus,

If you don't mind waiting, I can take a photo of the panel of one of the 185's which regularly fly into my airport.

Pete.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Thanks for this kind offer, mate! :salute:
I'll be getting back on it - although I'd currently prefer the VC shot, just to keep the transition between both views smooth...

Cheers,
Markus.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

This is how the 2D panel should look like - some more fiddling needed before I ask for permission:

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/wildbillkelso_berlin/Skywagon/NZMC2.jpg

What do you "old school" Wagoners say?
Is that something for you?

Cheers,
Markus.

[andersel]

Looks great, Markus. As a comfirmed 2D guy I will be watching your progress with extreme interest. Thanks so much for doing this. LA

[HighGround22]

. . . The 2D panel shouldn't replace the VC - it's meant to be an addition!
Abso-tively! Posi-lutely! Couldn't agree more, Markus. And I too am looking forward to this jobby with "moistened anticipation"!

[Desert Rat]

If I had this kite, I'd be PMing you straight away. That, sir, is a very fine looking pit.

:salute:
Jamie

[PeteHam]

:jump: :jump:

As soon as permission is granted, my 185 is going into the panel shop :applause:

Thanks Markus :ernae:

Pete.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

After fiddling on some last details, I've packed the test panel and dropped an email to Carenado yesterday afternoon.
I couldn't believe my eyes when opening my email inbox now (it's sunday morning here, and I still have a lot of sleep crust in my optical sensors):



Markus, no problem.
You can upload it to public sites.

Best regards

Carenado



:jump:

Thank you, you gentle folks at Carenado! :wavey:

Good news also for those who like wet and dry runways both:
A panel variant with the gear gauge for the amphibian model will be included.
But remember:
The wheels have to be inside when runway is wet!

Just packin'...

Cheers,
Markus.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Upload proceeded.
Here it is:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=111&linkid=3373

Enjoy!

[Thunderbolt]

nice work ! :ernae:

[stansdds]

It really pays to do things the right way. :ernae:

[dogknot]

The 2D panel came out great! Thanks Markus. Nice work.

[OleBoy]

Nice of Carenado to oblige, as I see many to benefit from your work Markus.

I'm a VC type but, after testing this out, this will be utilized. Outstanding job! :ernae:

[edmoore235]

Thank you Markus. Just wonderful, you did it very well. One giant Gold star next to your name for sure (smile). Take care.

Ed

[racartron]

Seeing as how Markus is already a five star general -- IMHO -- I guess we will have to come up with a proper title for a sixth star. How about General of All Things Enhanced Superbly (GATES) Oh no, some dude in Redmond already took that.

Any suggestions?

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Thank you for your kind replies, gentlemen!
Glad you like it.

As far as stars or other insignia are concerned:
One of the things I very much appreciate at SOH is that there's no titles, ranking system, "karma points" or other stuff I saw at different boards!
Let's keep it this way. :wavey:

Cheers,
Markus.

btw:
How does this cab work on different screen resolutions or aspect ratios?
Any other ratio needed?

[racartron]

Regarding screen ratios, I'm currently using 1280x960 so things are a bit squished, but definitely usable. Since I'll be going to a wide screen format in a few months, no need to do any more -- unless it's a "quick and dirty" mod that won't detract from your prolific painting charter.:icon_lol:

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Well - setting it to a different ratio will need some resizements and adjustments to avoid egg-shaped gauges.
I've just read a poll over at calclassic's: Seems like 16:9 and 16:10 are the widely used ratios, so I think I'll leave it as is.

There seems to be a certain interest on a decent 2D pit:
This panel is out for a day now and there are already
- 31 downloads here at SOH,
- 50 at flightsim.com and
- 123 at AVSIM.
So this definitely was worth it!

Cheers,
Markus.

[PilatusTurbo]

I exclusively fly VC, if they're high quality enough like in this bird, but your 2D panel has the right zoom and detail levels to almost trick me into thinking it's the VC.

Very nicely done sir! :ernae:

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Thank you, Pilatus!

There are not too many aircraft I like to operate from the VC (Rick Piper's HS.748 and Chipmunk, SF8 Sabre and the CS Herk to name a few). Besides their VC's visual quality, it was the way the 2D view matched to it that got me inspired...

Cheers,
Markus.

[edmoore235]

Markus, I use 16:9 ratio 24 inch 1920 by 1080 and the 2d panel is great for me. Thank you so very much. Take care.

Ed

[HighGround22]

.
This is a marvelous boon to Flight Simmers and especially for us mugwumps at SOH. Wonderful job, Markus! And many, many thanks.

[Wing_Z]

There are not too many aircraft I like to operate from the VC (Rick Piper's HS.748 and Chipmunk, SF8 Sabre and the CS Herk to name a few). Besides their VC's visual quality, it was the way the 2D view matched to it that got me inspired...
...Which answers the question I had for you at NZFF!
It's a matter of what feels more comfortable I guess.
I quite enjoy setting the VC POV the same as your 2D panel in this model. and trying to remember where I was!
Whatever your choice, it's an excellent bit of panel work! :applause: