Korean War Mustangs Project

[Seagull V]

Hello everyone, in a previous post I asked about the Mustang as I have been looking at doing some skins for the Korean War. Initially I was just going to upgrade the CFS3 Dog Patch Crew skins but have decided to use them as a starting reference and do a full upgrade. "Stang" is Andrew Wai's

Was only meant to be a 2 day project but has grown a bit. Will release when ready. :wavey:

(Unfortunately it has pushed the Ju-52's back a week or 2, will still release the next installment before Christmas, and the the rest after)

If anyone has some favourite KW Mustangs they want done, let me know now while I am on a roll.

[Jagdflieger]

Great idea. Lots of mud moving for mustangs on and around the 17th parallel.

[Seagull V]

SAAF repaints are done, now onto the Aussies.

Proposed list is:- :wavey:

DPC SAAF 325 (updated) - added 335, & 361 "Miss Marunouchi", & 369 "My Boy" (have also made the SAAF insignia more orange coloured and updated the roundel as well)

DPC RAAF 77SQN Cresswell Korea A68-803 (updated) - am adding A68-808 & A68-726 & A68-765, A68-809.

DPC ROKAF 13 (updated) - am adding 18 as flown by Maj. Dean E. Hess USAF advisor to ROKAF, and a couple of others. Any suggestions ?

DPC USAF 12FBS FF-943 (updated) - am adding FF-736 Lt. James Glessner 12thFBS 18FBG (?) & Buckeye Blitz-VI Capt. J.W. Rogers 36FBW 8FBW and would like to do one more, have a nice colour picture of a Reconn.

(Major Moon Mullins has already been done by someone else)

What existing repaints are available for the USAF ? Jagdflieger you already have a couple, are they Fox4 specials? And should I update existing CFS2 skins ? :isadizzy:

There are also a couple of Alpha repaints but I was going to leave the Alpha and concentrate on the AWai "Stang".

[PomBee]

Lovely job. I wanted some 'stangs for my Korean install, so I'm looking forward to these.

PomBee.:salute::salute::salute:

[Seagull V]

Aussies are done, now for the ROKAF.

[burcham8]

I'm looking forward to 'em, too! Love to have them all.

Marc

[gius]

wonderful work, Seagull, many thanks to you!!!:jump::jump:

[Seagull V]

Are we there yet ????????????????
Approaching the finishing line !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wavey:

[Stratobat]

Hey Seagull,

Awesome looking repaints :cool:

I did this SAAF one a number of years ago but it was never uploaded.

Not sure where it is now but if I find it on a disc I'll send it up if anybody's interested?


Hey Jagdflieger,

The Sikorsky S-55's in one of your screenshot, are those conversions of the Alphasim aircraft?

Regards,
Stratobat

Edit: Screenshots are of Andrew Wai's Mustang in FS 2002.

[Seagull V]

Stratobat

If you are able to find her then add it in, Looks nice, and 366 is one I have not done as well.

Aim of this project was to give the mission builders/campaign makers something to work with,
and there is plenty of scope for them as regards combat missions, including having an argument or two with Mig-15s. Both Fox4 and the Dog Patch crew will have permission to use them.

With the paint-jobs I was also trying to get them as realistic as possible with the information that I have, which has slowed the process down a bit. South Korean insignia location gave a lot of headaches, some references have them on each wing, some as per the USAF, and others on the opposite side to the USAF. Spent nearly a day trying to locate information but with no real result. As such have put the insignia on both wings (LHS & RHS). If there are any ROKAF Mustang gurus out there please let me know.

When completed the template will also be available for anyone wanting to add/modify the paint jobs.

Also want to do 3 SQN RAAF in Italy WW2, 2 skins in camo, and 2 in metal.

Then there are a lot of interesting Latin American schemes as well. Bay of Pigs/Football Wars ?
That old Mustang sure got around !!!!!!!

[Jagdflieger]

Stratobat,

That's Tom Sanford's UH-19. I believe you can get it over at: simviation.com

It's set up as an AI only aircraft, but it is a great addition for Korean missions and infrastructure.

[Stratobat]

Hey Seagull,


With the paint-jobs I was also trying to get them as realistic as possible with the information that I have, which has slowed the process down a bit. South Korean insignia location gave a lot of headaches, some references have them on each wing, some as per the USAF, and others on the opposite side to the USAF. Spent nearly a day trying to locate information but with no real result. As such have put the insignia on both wings (LHS & RHS).

Accuracy is always going to be a bit of a problem with certain paint schemes but if you look at the links below, I'd be inclined to go with one upper wing insignia.

http://www.swannysmodels.com/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1265582569

http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/p/129001/1326279.aspx

I have seen one model with markings on both wings but if you play it by the numbers, there seem to be more models floating around with only one insignia than there are with two.


Hey Jagdflieger,


That's Tom Sanford's UH-19. I believe you can get it over at: simviation.com

It's set up as an AI only aircraft, but it is a great addition for Korean missions and infrastructure.

Thank you for the info... Busy looking for it now :salute:

Regards,
Stratobat

[Seagull V]

Stratobat, thanks for taking the time to see what is around with resources. Much appreciated. :salute:

I will add another layer to the ROKAF Mustangs with the wing insignia as per the "Academy plastic model", which I have and it is a very nice model. With the other layers left in it will be easy to update if some concrete information comes along.

The wing insignia appears in 3 different ways depending on the resource material. Also the very first markings were obviously hand painted on from the period photographs. There are not too many good photos of the wings to verify what was done, then there is also the issue that the negatives may have been reversed when the photos were produced. A big can of worms that cannot be resolved with my small amount of resources. :isadizzy:

Just got the mission markings for Buckeye Blitz VI to go and the revised wing insignia for the ROKAF then Santa can upload the Christmas Presents !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :santahat::santahat::santahat::santahat:

[oldwheat]

I believe that the ROKAF 'stangs' merely had the original US insignia star painted over with the Korean 'Yin/Yang' symbol. I've seen portrayals with insignia in all 4 wing surfaces but personally consider this to be in error. I have a number of Korean war skins for the Alphasim bird on my pc but I can't get into it @ present.

[Seagull V]

I might do up a PDF that shows some examples of the wing insignia problem with the ROKAF upload, and then if someone is able to resolve it, release a modified/updated Version 2 of the repaint at a later date.

[Stratobat]

Hey Seagull,


The wing insignia appears in 3 different ways depending on the resource material. Also the very first markings were obviously hand painted on from the period photographs. There are not too many good photos of the wings to verify what was done, then there is also the issue that the negatives may have been reversed when the photos were produced.

I had a look in Squadron/ Signal's P-51 Mustang in Action book but unfortunately there were no photographs of ROKAF Mustangs. What I did find in the book was a black and white photograph of another 2 Squadron SAAF Mustang which may be of interest - Number 369 with "MY BOY" written on the side of the fuselage just below the exhaust stack.

After a couple of minutes of "googling", this is what I have found on the aircraft:

Profile drawing: http://www.icon.co.za/~pauljnr/sketch.jpg (http://www.icon.co.za/%7Epauljnr/sketch.jpg)

List of SAAF F-51D Mustangs in Korea: http://www.icon.co.za/~pauljnr/2squadron.htm (http://www.icon.co.za/%7Epauljnr/2squadron.htm)

For comparison RE the ROKAF Mustangs, I had a look in Squadron/ Signal's T-6 Texan in Action book and on page 49 there is a black and white photograph of a ROKAF Texan that has ROKAF roundels (RAF style) on both upper wings. The text states that the ROKAF had only two T-6D's on strength in June 1950.

I think Oldwheat may be on the right track when he says that the US insignia star was merely painted over on ROKAF Mustangs. Perhaps this was a temporary measure that was never corrected?


I might do up a PDF that shows some examples of the wing insignia problem with the ROKAF upload, and then if someone is able to resolve it, release a modified/updated Version 2 of the repaint at a later date.

If you need a good PDF creator program, doPDF has worked nicely for me in the past. It installs on your computer as a virtual printer.

http://www.dopdf.com/

Regards,
Stratobat

[Seagull V]

Stratobat

"My Boy" is one of the 4 SAAF Mustangs that I have done !!!!! :bump:

Everyone who is interested:-

Okay, Christmas presents are now being assembled, hopefully upload will be tomorrow night or a bit earlier.

Problems with correct wing insignia location for the ROKAF Mustangs, so I will do a PDF which will help explain that situation so any future historians/gurus will be able to let us know what was actually done and we can then update the skins. Oldwheats logic makes great sense to me, but having served in the military I can see that there could have been "alternative variations" on what is assumed logical. Picture references would be great but most of the pictures are of the fuselages. Then there is the "reversed negative" picture problem which is obvious when "text" is involved.

Next problem is upload size, I have done all of my work as 2048 x 2048 and it looks quite nice with a bit of distortion when saved as Extended 16 bit 565 images with Dxtbmp, however it gives an image size of around 12 meg. When saved as DXT1 it has an image size of a bit over 2 meg but has more distortion and bleeding.

As I was initially planning on having them uploaded with the AWai Mustang with a Zip file of 4 texture sets per Mustang, size was around 45 Meg when zipped. Will save as DXT1 and try and get the uploads to about/under 10 Meg each. Given that there are members still on dial-up the less size the better. (Might also result in less death threats from admin about filling up the servers.)

If people want the maximum effect they will need to take the texture files into Dxtbmp and save as Extended 16 bit 565 which I would recommend. Will add the details to the read-me files. :salute:

Pictures below show the difference between Extended 16 bit 565 & DXT1

[Stratobat]

Hey Seagull,

If you were to reduce the bitmaps to 1024 x 1024 16 bit 565 what would the file size be?


If people want the maximum effect they will need to take the texture files into Dxtbmp and save as Extended 16 bit 565 which I would recommend. Will add the details to the read-me files.

Are you going to be including your original 2048 x 2048 bitmaps in the download as well?
Nice looking repaint :ernae:
Regards,
Stratobat

[Seagull V]

Stratobat

Was going to do a trial and see how it looked.If okay will save at the reduced size, then make the template available for anyone who wants to use it but with the template size at 2048 x 2048, it would need a bit of trimming as the folder size is currently at about 185 Megs. :icon_eek:

[Seagull V]

Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells :santahat::santahat::santahat: Still a couple to go.

[Seagull V]

Thanks to Rami for his never-ending role in addition to all of the other jobs he has to carry out.

Repaint packs are uploaded with AWai's Mustang, read the Readme to check the credits as well as to see what needs to be installed.

There are a few texture mapping issues so I had to do a few compromises otherwise the project will be delivered way after the new year.

The DP is not fully done, it still needs a pair of yellow napalm tanks, some extra long-range external tanks, 2 x Tiny Tim rockets, plus another pair of entries for a 2 bomb & 4 rockets and a 2 napalm & 4 rockets combination. If I get time I will update, otherwise anyone else is welcome to help out.

ROKAF wing insignia is still not resolved, many thanks to those who tried to help out (greatly appreciated) but hopefully some ROKAF Mustang historian/guru will come to the rescue at some point.

Enjoy :santahat::santahat::santahat::santahat::santahat:

[blohmundvoss]

Great work, Seagull - I can't wait to try these out. It's a treat to have some more non-US skins for this bird in Korea.

Many thanks
BuV

[Stratobat]

Hey Seagull,

Downloaded all of them - Thank you for the great textures :applause:

Is the base package for Andrew Wai's P-51D Mustang still available?

Slightly unrelated but if anybody is interested in reading a book on the SAAF in Korea, "South Africa's Flying Cheetahs in Korea" by Dermot Moore & Peter Bagshawe (ISBN: 1-874800-15-4) is a pretty good read.

Regards,
Stratobat

[Seagull V]

awp51d.zip

http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/games/PC/flight-sim/uploads03/may/
Look towards the end of the "a"'s

If you have time there are some other interesting goodies located in there as well, especially if you like the "older" aircraft. :wavey:

[Jagdflieger]

Just got 'em. Thanks!

[blohmundvoss]

Slightly unrelated but if anybody is interested in reading a book on the SAAF in Korea, "South Africa's Flying Cheetahs in Korea" by Dermot Moore & Peter Bagshawe (ISBN: 1-874800-15-4) is a pretty good read.



In a similar vein, I'd recommend 'With the Yanks in Korea Vol 1 1950-51' by Brian Cull & Dennis Newton, one of Grub Street's excellent publications and dealing with British and Commonwealth involvement in the air war in Korea. Along with other things it covers the RAAF, SAAF, RCAF, and RAF pilots seconded to US forces.

Cheers
BuV

[Stratobat]

Hey Seagull,

Thank you for the link :)


Hey BuV,


In a similar vein, I'd recommend 'With the Yanks in Korea Vol 1 1950-51' by Brian Cull & Dennis Newton, one of Grub Street's excellent publications and dealing with British and Commonwealth involvement in the air war in Korea. Along with other things it covers the RAAF, SAAF, RCAF, and RAF pilots seconded to US forces.Looks like an interesting book. Thank you :)

The only reference I find to a Volume Two though is that it hasn't been published yet. Is that correct?

Regards,
Stratobat

[blohmundvoss]

Hey BuV,

Looks like an interesting book. Thank you :)

The only reference I find to a Volume Two though is that it hasn't been published yet. Is that correct?

Regards,
Stratobat

That's right, Stratobat. If I were you I wouldn't hold your breath. Grub Street's books are usually excellent but they are often way behind schedule for publication. Still, better late than never!

Cheers
BuV

[Seagull V]

Just Flight Sabre Vs Mig & Korean Combat have landed in my Post Office Box, still available at:-
http://www.justflight.com/flightSimAddOnList.asp?cat=&sim=7&type=&imageField.x=57&imageField.y=7&product=All+Products

Some nice low prices as well !!!!!!!

Will need to have a good look and do some "flight testing" along with the excellent Fox4 work, obviously with some new Mustangs added in. Should look good with some newer aircraft models substituted in.

Might need to do some extra campaigns/missions.

Anyone seen a decent paint scheme for a Polikarpov Po-2 in North Korean markings ?

[sc7500]

...Anyone seen a decent paint scheme for a Polikarpov Po-2 in North Korean markings ?...

Will This work ?

25971

And try this link for detail info:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38776

SC
:kilroy:

[Seagull V]

Very nice Russian example. Soviets used them for night-time raids on the Germans, something the NKs did as well against the UN forces - Bedcheck Charlies.
http://www.kp-models.com/catalogue/modelkit/polikarpov_po_2_in_korean_war/

Looking at what other aircraft were used that can be added to the KW list.

Have not seen too much about the NK use of the PO-2 but often heard of them being referred to. Did it have the stock soviet green colour, camo, or painted black, if it was black was it a full coat or streaky/patchy. Makes it a bit harder that it operated at night-time so colour photos are a bit harder to find. Could do a patchy black coloured PO-2 with assumed locations of North Korean markings as a what if.

[Seagull V]

One of these CFS2 version ? :jump:
http://forums.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?194799-Polikarpov-PO-2

FS2004 Polikarpov Po-2 in four variants and different paints. VC only, no 2D panel. By Ralf Kreibich.
http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=133427

Morton also did a lovely CFS2 version with 4 Soviet skins of the FS2004 Polikarpov Po-2 (U-2) Original author - V. Zhyhulskiy
but I have not seen a North Korean skin for it. ChrisN also did a conversion as well.