Fairchild C-119

[PeteHam]

In the past there's been some discussion regarding the Fairchild C119 by Daisuke Yamamoto.

Todate I still haven't found a good flight cfg for this classic.

One version has it tied to the Beech Baron air file, and in several other downloads I've tried have a modified cfg , but it still flies like a dog.

I'm sure there's enough interest and tallented guys here to do justice to this fine aircraft.

Please ........

Thanks guys,

Pete.

[A26]

I second that!

a26

[Milton Shupe]

In the past there's been some discussion regarding the Fairchild C119 by Daisuke Yamamoto.

Todate I still haven't found a good flight cfg for this classic.

One version has it tied to the Beech Baron air file, and in several other downloads I've tried have a modified cfg , but it still flies like a dog.

I'm sure there's enough interest and tallented guys here to do justice to this fine aircraft.

Please ........

Thanks guys,

Pete.

I flew this years ago in FS9, maybe FS8. If you wish to encourage someone to do the flight model, why not do the research for the performance data, and maybe come up with some load out configs. I.E. do you want it loaded, half loaded, or empty? Maybe even come up with a POH or other helpful data.

That might encourage someone to jump on it. :)

EDIT: Here is a nice info link about history: http://www.ruudleeuw.com/c119-info.htm

[Willy]

I've known of a few people who have tweaked it, but I'm not sure how far along they got with it. Milton makes an excellant suggestion.

[OBIO]

Once upon a time, before my last major HD crash...or maybe the HD crash before that...I had the C-82 and C-119 installed. I had a FDE set sent to me that was really nice....now I have no idea how close it was to the real thing as I have never seen a real C-119, let alone fly one...but the plane handled great in all areas of flight. Was a real joy to fly. I even tweaked that FDE a bit to include the jet pack thingie up on top and did up a sound pack to go along with it. I have the sound pack, and the paint template...but not the FDE. Let me shoot a PM to the guy who sent me the FDE for the C-119 and see if he would be kind enough to shoot me another copy of it.

OBIO

[Brian_Gladden]

The Baron tweaked flight dynamics were done by me and Lizardo.

The main problem is that it was one of the authors first projects and when he built the model. the "zero" reference point was not near the center of the 3D model (optimal is the approximate COG of the real deal) and instead, was located in the rear of the flight deck.

This makes it nearly impossible to get a good flying flight model. It always needs wayyyyy to much pitch trim and weight an balance is nearly impossible to get right. When the model was generated, it also screwed up the values in the air file, hence the use of the Baron's (FS 2002) air file. Perhaps the FS 2004 DC-3 would be more appropriate now...

It's really too bad since I love the VC in the bird. The only other choice is Mike Stone's C-119. Which hasn't got a VC.

If anyone has Daisuke's e-mail address, perhaps he could be persuaded to either redoing the model with the COG relocated or releasing the source files for re-work.

[Milton Shupe]

... snipped ...

... perhaps he could be persuaded to either redoing the model with the COG relocated or releasing the source files for re-work.

Brian, just to be clear, the model's location in the design program sets only the FS Reference Point. The CoG can be moved to anywhere from there using the aircraft.cfg statement:

reference_datum_position = 0, 0, 0 //this is the center of mass set from the design program
empty_weight_CG_position = 0, 0, 0 // You can move the CoG with this statement giving offset from the reference datum (fore/aft-left/right-up/down)

[PeteHam]

I've got a copy of the Fairchild C119B & C Flight Manual for a start.

Pete.

[Brian_Gladden]

Brian, just to be clear, the model's location in the design program sets only the FS Reference Point. The CoG can be moved to anywhere from there using the aircraft.cfg statement:

reference_datum_position = 0, 0, 0 //this is the center of mass set from the design program
empty_weight_CG_position = 0, 0, 0 // You can move the CoG with this statement giving offset from the reference datum (fore/aft-left/right-up/down)

Correct. However , even with tweaking the COG in the cfg, if the model's reference point is in a weird place, it becomes very difficult to get the plane to fly right.

[Milton Shupe]

I downloaded the aircraft and his fix from Flightsim. Took her for a spin. The CoG was at 10% MAC and a lot of trim was required to get her up, and a lot of negative trim required to fly level.

So, I corrected the CoG and adjusted the air file for proper trim at level flight. She now lifts off with less than 2 degrees positive trim and one notch of flaps easily without getting vertical, also lifts off by herself with 2 degrees positive trim and no flaps at about 118kias.

Landing is gentle and graceful with just a few degrees of up trim. She's a pussycat.

Now with all that, the performance numbers are not accurate, stall speeds are likely too slow, and cruise and top speeds are slow. But she flys through all phases nicely. It is a starting point.

[PeteHam]

That's great news Milton :applause: :applause:

I'm pleased there's those like you who are knowlegable in these mods.

I've tried fiddling the numbers ( might add here that I haven't got a clue as to what I'm doing :icon_lol: ) and the whole thing turns into a can of worms.

From flipping over and over on starting the sim to massive amounts of trim to try and maintain control , to going ballistic when I lower flaps ........... :icon_lol:

Eventually the aircraft crashes .... wonder why I can't find anymore test pilots :monkies:

Pete.

[OBIO]

Pete

It sounds like you and I flunked out of the same Aeronautics class LOL! I can't do diddly squat with flight dynamics unless a mountain size lump of luck happens to fall into the mix.

Tim

[PeteHam]

Pete

It sounds like you and I flunked out of the same Aeronautics class LOL!

Tim

:icon_lol: Yeah , maybe we should have paid more attention to the tutor instead of daydreaming :icon_lol:

Pete.

[aeromed202]

Just glancing at it I started messing with the FDs at some point on this one. I have a day off coming up so I'll see if my humble hacks show any promise. The points Milton identified are usually not too hard to resolve.

Pete, if you could digest that manual a bit and post some data I could use them as a start. Airspeeds and settings for takeoff, cruise, landings and so forth. Even a handful would help. Thanks.




Just noticed that Robert Coady did updated dynamics for the aircraft c119bxcr.zip at Flightsim. I presume this the same base model but I have not tried out his mods. Would be worth a look.

[Milton Shupe]

Here are the tweaks I did just to get her more flyable. She is not accurate but at least easily flyable.

For a more accurate FM, I would start from scratch because the air file tables need to match up better with this aircraft but this is useable.

Thanks for taking on the task aeromed202. :applause:

[Z-claudius24]

Hi,

Thank you.. :jump:

[PeteHam]

Just glancing at it I started messing with the FDs at some point on this one. I have a day off coming up so I'll see if my humble hacks show any promise. The points Milton identified are usually not too hard to resolve.

Pete, if you could digest that manual a bit and post some data I could use them as a start. Airspeeds and settings for takeoff, cruise, landings and so forth. Even a handful would help. Thanks.



Aeromed202 , I've sent you a pm.

Thanks,

Pete.

[PeteHam]

Here are the tweaks I did just to get her more flyable. She is not accurate but at least easily flyable.

For a more accurate FM, I would start from scratch because the air file tables need to match up better with this aircraft but this is useable.

Thanks for taking on the task aeromed202. :applause:


Thanks Milton :applause:

I'll give these a try out.

Pete.

[PeteHam]

Here's some figures from the Flight Manual .............

Take Off;

50,000 lbs = 82 kts
60,000 lbs = 89 kts
64,000 lbs = 92 kts
74,000 lbs = 99 kts

Approach;

40-50,000 lbs = 82-90 kts
50-60,000 lbs = 90-100 kts
60-70,000 lbs = 100-110 kts

Max Flap speed = 140 kts

Stall Speed;
Dirty ( gear & flap down ) varies from 68 kts @ 40,000 lbs to 92 kts @ 74,000 lbs.

Hope this helps.

Pete.

[aeromed202]

Thanks all for the encouragement. I'll block out time tomorrow for this if I don't get a start tonight.

[PeteHam]

Aeromed202 , you should have a package in your mailbox :wavey:
Good luck and we all look forward to the end result :jump:

No pressure :icon_lol:
:ernae:

Pete.

[aeromed202]

Got it, thanks. As I was reading it over I was wondering about the weight and balance section of the CFG

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight = 26200 // (pounds)
empty_weight = 16145 // (pounds)

The lit refers to a max of about 60000 lbs. Do the numbers in this balance section really show FS simulated weight? Did the author mean that his 26200=60000 in FS? Is FS architecture set up to understand pounds, square feet of wing area and the like realistically or is it up to the aircraft modeller? Before I get into it I need to have the right starting points. I can just use what is there but if I'd rather use real-world numbers if possible.

[PeteHam]

In Section 2 ( in the red box ) it lists the normal t/o wgt as 64,000 lbs and landing gross wgt as 60,000 lbs.

But then the charts at the rear of the manual have the t/o wgts as 54, 64 & 74,000 lbs.

Max ldg wgt is 60,000 lbs.

Hope this helps,

Pete.

[aeromed202]

Not quite. I have always wondered if those values entered as max_gross_weight and empty_weight in the CFG are true pounds in the creation of the model. If they are then I should change them to reflect reality. If they are not and do not try to relate to real weight, like a value for roll stability has no meaning other than a scalar effect value, then I can just alter them as needed to produce a result. Does that make sense?


So far I've loaded Miltons update then started making adjustments to make performance follow the manuals information. I am at the point where I try to simulate 60000 to 70000lbs of weight and need to know if those CFG weights are trying to be real or not. I think I can pretty much have it fly well no matter which way I go but for those who want to play with payloads I would prefer do it the right way.

[Milton Shupe]

Use all real world numbers. The SDK says this:

max_gross_weight = nnnnnn pounds: Maximum design gross weight of the aircraft. This parameter is used solely in FSEDIT to help determine the aerodynamic coefficients.

empty_weight = nnnnnn pounds: Total weight (in pounds) of the aircraft minus usable fuel, passengers, cargo, and expendable armament (Combat Flight Simulator aircraft). If not specified, the value previously set in the .air file will be used.

Also, recompute the MOIs

[aeromed202]

Thanks Milton. So I will alter those numbers to reflect actual weights then go at it again.

[Milton Shupe]

I am curious as to which engine you will model for, the 3350 or 4360 ...

The aircraft.cfg engines are confusing looking at the statements:
[piston_engine]
power_scalar = 1.0 //Piston power scalar
cylinder_displacement= 130.71 //Cubic inches per cylinder
compression_ratio= 6.7 //Compression ratio
number_of_cylinders=14 //Number of cylinders
max_rated_rpm= 3700 //Max rated RPM
max_rated_hp= 1200 //Max rated HP

That is not a 3350-85.

Even data about the 3350's differ in places regarding HP:

R-3350-85 : 2,500 hp (1,900 kW)
R-3350-89A : 3,500 hp (2,600 kW)
R-3350-93W : 3,500 hp (2,600 kW)

Most of the 3350's used were -85's but some say 3500 HP which were -93W's. I think the -85's were most prolific and later some 4360's.

I suspect the 3350-85 is the most likely choice.

[Sunny9850]

[piston_engine]
max_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.000
idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.000
max_rpm_friction_scalar=1.000
idle_rpm_friction_scalar=0.860 // LP 2104/10
cylinder_displacement=186.000 // real world 186=3350/18 cuin
compression_ratio=6.7 //8.500
number_of_cylinders=18
max_rated_rpm=2900.000
max_rated_hp=3400.000
fuel_metering_type=1 //car heat on
cooling_type=0
normalized_starter_torque=0.70 //was 0.0125->Because of power scalar
turbocharged=1
max_design_mp=66.8 // LP 2104/10 //58.500 // turbocompound chargers and 145 hi-octane fuel
min_design_mp=7.0 //6.70 // LP 2104/10
critical_altitude=600 //9600 //16400.000 // limit ceiling alt, not equal to real ceiling ! // LP 2104/10
emergency_boost_type=1
emergency_boost_mp_offset=0.000
emergency_boost_gain_offset=0.700
fuel_air_auto_mixture=0 // 1 = automix on, 0 = manual mixture set
auto_ignition=0
power_scalar=1.00 //0.932 // was 1.030 but due to fuel_metering influence

This is the engine section for our our L-1649A Starliner. This is of course the R-3350-EA-2 engine with Turbo-Compound system. But you can maybe start with this as a baseline.


[piston_engine]
max_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.000
idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.000
max_rpm_friction_scalar=1.000
idle_rpm_friction_scalar=0.800 // 1.00
cylinder_displacement=186.000 // real world 186=3350/18 cuin
compression_ratio=6.700
number_of_cylinders=18
max_rated_rpm=2800.000
max_rated_hp=2500.000
fuel_metering_type=1 // 1=Gravity Carburetor, the only way to have CARB HEAT active
cooling_type=0
normalized_starter_torque=0.0185 //0.0125 use the smaller number for manual engine starts using the FE controls or assigned keyboard keys for a slightly more realistic visual animation of a radial engine start.
turbocharged=1
max_design_mp=51.500
min_design_mp=6.60 //6.800
critical_altitude=9200.000 // not equal to real ceiling, set to reproduce HB METO power with altitude !
emergency_boost_type=0
emergency_boost_mp_offset=0.000
emergency_boost_gain_offset=0.000
fuel_air_auto_mixture=0 // 1 = automix on, 0 = manual mixture set
auto_ignition=0
power_scalar=1.00

Or the numbers for the R-3350-75

Looking forward to finally getting a fully functional C-119.

Stefan

[falcon409]

I'm working on a layered paint kit for it, slow going with lotsa rivets, lol.:salute:

[aeromed202]

Sorry for the delay, I was hijacked by the missus for the usual work to do stuff. After reading sections of the manual, I was still unsure of some of the weights. At one point it discussed a fictional flight to drop 19000 lbs of equipment so I took that as an upper limit for payload. That plus the empty weight and full fuel load (4200 lbs) I got about what I was reading was the max takeoff weight of about 70000 lbs and an empty weight of about 46000 lbs. What I've done so far is use Miltons update, changed weights to the above values then went to work on dynamics. Currently it will rotate and takeoff at about 100-110 kts, cruise at 200, and land full flaps approach speed of 98-110 mph depending on loading. I changed up the station loads to just three with the last one usable as payload (19000 lbs max).

Two snags I can't seem to make right are 1: I can't seem to make the landing gear soften at all on landing. It hits hard and drops the nose gear to the runway too fast. 2: I had to make excessive elevator force to enable rotation (related to #1?). Something just made it not want to respond to a normal elevator scalar value. Having to do this this made other values changes necessary to compensate so it wouldn't pitch like a butterfly in a gale on elevator input, a bit crude but effective. Overall it seems to fly pretty well. The original model didn't have the problem as much. As for the engines I defer to others more knowledgable in that area. I only changed the power and thrust values.

Time for some testers. Below are my changes. Copy and paste them from [general] on down since I don't know what textures people have. Give me some feed back and we'll get this done.

[General]
atc_type=Fairchild
atc_model=C119
editable=0
performance= \n \n \n \n \n \n
[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight = 70000 // (pounds)
empty_weight = 46000 // (pounds)
reference_datum_position = 19.25, 0, 0 // (feet) distance from FlightSim Reference position: (1/4 chord, centerline, waterline)
empty_weight_CG_position = -23.00, 0, 0 // (feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from specified datum
max_number_of_stations =50
station_load.0 = "170.0, -5.4, -2.0, 0.0, Pilot" //Weight, Lat, Lon, Vert Position
station_load.1 = "170.0, -5.4, 2.0, 0.0, Co-Pilot" //Weight, Lat, Lon, Vert Position
station_load.2 = "0.0, -27.0, 0.0, 0.0, Cargo, max 19000" //Weight, Lat, Lon, Vert Position
;Moments of Inertia
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 477699.03
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 57179.10
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 331797.97
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 1000.0
[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar = 0.9
parasite_drag_scalar = 1.12
induced_drag_scalar = 1.0
elevator_effectiveness = 2.4
aileron_effectiveness = 0.55
rudder_effectiveness = 0.6
pitch_stability = 3.6
roll_stability = 0.85
yaw_stability = 0.4
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
rudder_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
p_factor_on_yaw = 0.5
torque_on_roll = 1.0
gyro_precession_on_yaw = 1.0
gyro_precession_on_pitch = 1.0
[flaps.0] //Trailing Edge Flaps
type = 1 // 1 - tail, 2 - lead
span-outboard = 0.5 // 0.0 .. 1.0
extending-time = 9 // seconds
flaps-position.0 = 0 // degrees
flaps-position.1 = 11 // degrees
flaps-position.2 = 23 // degrees
flaps-position.3 = 34 // degrees
flaps-position.4 = 45.0 // degrees
damaging-speed = 140 // KIAS
blowout-speed = 175 // KIAS
lift_scalar = 1.6
drag_scalar = 1.2
pitch_scalar= 0.3
system_type = 1 //0=Electric, 1=Hydraulic, 2=Pneumatic, 3=Manual, 4=None
[GeneralEngineData]
engine_type = 0 //0=Piston, 1=Jet, 2=None, 3=Helo-Turbine, 4=Rocket, 5=Turboprop
Engine.0 = -9.75, -9.1, -1.8 //(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from reference datum
Engine.1 = -9.75, 9.1, -1.8 //(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from reference datum
fuel_flow_scalar= 1.0 //Fuel flow scalar
min_throttle_limit = 0.0 //Minimum percent throttle. Generally negative for turbine reverser
master_ignition_switch = 1 //Master Ignition Switch
[piston_engine]
power_scalar = 1.38 //Piston power scalar
cylinder_displacement= 130.71 //Cubic inches per cylinder
compression_ratio= 6.7 //Compression ratio
number_of_cylinders=14 //Number of cylinders
max_rated_rpm= 3700 //Max rated RPM
max_rated_hp= 1200 //Max rated HP
fuel_metering_type= 1 //0=Fuel Injected, 1=Gravity Carburetor, 2=Aerobatic Carburetor
cooling_type= 0 //0=Cooling type Air, 1=Cooling type Liquid
normalized_starter_torque= 0.3 //Starter torque factor
turbocharged= 1 //Is it turbocharged? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
max_design_mp= 47 //Max design manifold pressure, (inHg)
min_design_mp= 10 //Min design manifold pressure, (inHg)
critical_altitude= 7000 //Altitude to which the turbocharger will provide max design manifold pressure (feet)
emergency_boost_type= 0 //0=None, 1=Water Injection, 2=Methanol/Water injection, 3=War Emergency Power
emergency_boost_mp_offset= 0 //Additional manifold pressure supplied by emergency boost
emergency_boost_gain_offset= 0 //Multiplier on manifold pressure due to emergency boost
fuel_air_auto_mixture= 0 //Automixture available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
auto_ignition= 0 //Auto-Ignition available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
max_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar= 1.0 //Scalar on maximum RPM mechanical efficiency
idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar= 1.0 //Scalar on idle RPM mechanical efficiency
max_rpm_friction_scalar= 1.0 //Scalar on maximum RPM friction
idle_rpm_friction_scalar= 1.0 //Scalar on idle RPM friction
[propeller]
thrust_scalar = 1.5 //Propeller thrust scalar
propeller_type= 0 //0=Constant Speed, 1=Fixed Pitch
propeller_diameter= 11.53 //Propeller Diameter, (feet)
propeller_blades= 3 //Number of propeller blades
propeller_moi= 40.2 //Propeller moment of inertia
beta_max= 35.0 //Maximum blade pitch angle for constant speed prop, (degrees)
beta_min= 18.0 //Minimum blade pitch angle for constant speed prop, (degrees)
min_gov_rpm= 1400 //Miminum governed RPM
prop_tc= 0.1 //Prop time-constant
gear_reduction_ratio= 1.778 //Propeller gear reduction ratio
fixed_pitch_beta= 0.0 //Fixed pitch angle of fixed pitch prop, (degrees)
low_speed_theory_limit= 80.0 //Speed at which low speed theory becomes blended in (feet/second)
prop_sync_available= 1 //Prop synchronization available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_deice_available= 1 //Prop de-icing available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_feathering_available= 1 //Prop feathering available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_auto_feathering_available= 0 //Prop auto-feathering available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
min_rpm_for_feather= 700.0 //Minimum RPM for prop feathering
beta_feather= 89.5 //Feathering pitch angle (degrees)
power_absorbed_cf= 0.9 //Coefficient of friction for power absorbed by propeller in feather
defeathering_accumulators_available= 0 //Defeathering accumulators available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
prop_reverse_available= 0 //Prop reverse available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUE
minimum_on_ground_beta= 0.0 //Miminum pitch angle on ground, (degrees)
minimum_reverse_beta= 0.0 //Minimum pitch angle in reverse, (degrees)
feathering_switches = 1 //Switches which invoke feathering
//0 Class
//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)
//2 Lateral Position (feet)
//3 Vertical Position (feet)
//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)
//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
//6 Wheel Radius (feet)
//7 Steer Angle (degrees)
//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)
//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio
//10 Damping Ratio (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)
//11 Extension Time (seconds)
//12 Retraction Time (seconds)
//13 Sound Type
[contact_points]
point.0=1, -10.04, 0.0, -10.30, 1600.0, 0, 1.10, 40.0, 1.40, 1.5, 0.50, 9.0, 9.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.1=1, -32.60, -16.06, -9.45, 1600.0, 1, 1.50, -7.0, 1.00, 1.5, 0.60, 13.0, 13.0, 7.0, 166.0, 166.0
point.2=1, -32.60, 16.06, -9.45, 1600.0, 2, 1.50, -7.0, 1.00, 1.5, 0.60, 10.0, 10.0, 7.0, 166.0, 166.0
point.3=2, -34.62, -54.74, 3.18, 800.0, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 5.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.4=2, -34.62, 54.74, 3.18, 800.0, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 6.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.5=2, -86.36, -16.06, 2.81, 800.0, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 9.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.6=2, -86.36, 16.06, 2.81, 800.0, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 9.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.7=2, 0.03, 0.0, -1.2, 800.0, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 4.0, 0.0, 0.0
static_pitch = 0
static_cg_height = 8.56
gear_system_type=1 //Hydraulic
tailwheel_lock = 0
[gear_warning_system]
gear_warning_available = 1 //Normal
pct_throttle_limit = 0.1 //Percent throttle that activates warning
flap_limit_idle = 0.0 //Flap angle that activates warning at idle
flap_limit_power = 16.0 //Flap angle that activates warning at above idle
[brakes]
parking_brake = 1 //Parking brake available
toe_brakes_scale = 0.9 //Brake scalar
[hydraulic_system]
normal_pressure = 732.0 //PSI
electric_pumps = 0 //no electric pumps
engine_map = 1,1,0,0 //pumps on Eng1,2
[Views]
eyepoint = -2.41, -1.74, 2.92
[LIGHTS]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing
light.0 = 3, -34.62, -54.74, 3.20, fx_navred ,
light.1 = 3, -34.62, 54.74, 3.20, fx_navgre ,
light.2 = 3, -86.36, -14.24, 5.63, fx_navwhi ,
light.3 = 3, -86.36, 14.24, 5.63, fx_navwhi ,
light.4 = 1, -82.13, -14.24, 17.89, fx_beacon ,
light.5 = 1, -82.13, 14.24, 17.89, fx_beacon ,
light.6 = 4, -3.00, 0.00, 1.95, fx_vclighth,
light.7 = 3, -34.62, -54.74, 3.20, fx_strobe ,
light.8 = 3, -34.62, 54.74, 3.20, fx_strobe ,
//light.9 = 3, -10.04, 0.0, -9.32, fx_navredh //testlight
[Radios]
// Radio Type = availiable, standby frequency, has glide slope
Audio.1 = 1
Com.1 = 1, 1
Com.2 = 1, 1
Nav.1 = 1, 1, 1
Nav.2 = 1, 1, 0
Adf.1 = 1
Adf.2 = 1
Transponder.1 = 0
Marker.1 = 1
[keyboard_response]
//Breakpoint speeds (knots) on the keyboard increments of control surfaces.
//Speed at which the incremenet is reduced to 1/2 and 1/8 respectively.
elevator =200, 1000
aileron =200, 1000
rudder =200, 1000
[direction_indicators]
//1 Type: 0=None, 1=Vacuum Gyro, 2=Electric Gyro, 3=Electro-Mag Slaved Compass, 4=Slaved to another
//2 Indicator number of slaving indicator if Type = 4
direction_indicator.0=1,0
direction_indicator.1=2,0
[attitude_indicators]
//Type: 0=None, 1=Vacuum Gyro, 2=Electric Gyro
attitude_indicator.0 = 1
attitude_indicator.1 = 2
[turn_indicators]
//Type: 0=None, 1=Electric Gyro, 2=Vacuum Gyro
turn_indicator.0=2,0
[EFFECTS]
wake=fx_wake
water=fx_spray
dirt=fx_tchdrt
concrete=fx_sparks
startup=fx_engstrt_jenny
touchdown=fx_tchdwn, 1
[electrical]
max_battery_voltage = 24
generator_alternator_voltage = 25
max_generator_alternator_amps = 100
[fuel]
LeftMain = -22.55, -6.7, -3.0, 202.0, 0.0 //Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)
RightMain= -22.55, 6.7, -3.0, 202.0, 0.0 //Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)
Center1 = -22.55, 0.0, -2.7, 200.0, 0.0 //Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)
fuel_type = 1 //Fuel type: 1 = Avgas, 2 = JetA
number_of_tank_selectors = 2
electric_pump=1
[airplane_geometry]
wing_area = 987.0 //Square feet
wing_span = 95.0 //Feet
wing_root_chord = 6.85 //Feet
wing_dihedral = 5.0 //Degrees
wing_incidence = 2.0 //Degrees
wing_twist = -1.0 //Degrees
oswald_efficiency_factor= 0.65 //Measure of lift effeciency of wing
wing_winglets_flag = 0 //Are winglets available?
wing_sweep = 14.5 //Degrees, wing leading edge
wing_pos_apex_lon = -12 //Feet, longitudinal distance from reference point, negative going aft
wing_pos_apex_vert = -2.7 //Feet, vertical distance from reference point, positive going up
htail_area = 95.8 //Square feet
htail_span = 28.25 //Feet
htail_pos_lon = -52.7 //Feet, longitudinal distance from reference point, negative going aft
htail_pos_vert = -52.7 //Feet, vertical distance from reference point, positive going up
htail_incidence = -1.0 //Degrees
htail_sweep = 27.0 //Degrees, horizontal tail leading edge
vtail_area = 37.9 //Square feet
vtail_span = 11.49 //Feet, tip to body
vtail_sweep = 50.4 //Degrees, vertical tail leading edge
vtail_pos_lon = -51.4 //Feet, longitudinal distance from reference point, negative going aft
vtail_pos_vert = 6.7 //Feet, vertical distance from reference point, positive going up
elevator_area = 83.4 //Square feet
aileron_area = 102.8 //Square feet
rudder_area = 46.7 //Square feet
elevator_up_limit = 30.0 //Degrees
elevator_down_limit = 20.0 //Degrees
aileron_up_limit = 27.0 //Degrees
aileron_down_limit = 18.0 //Degrees
rudder_limit = 30.0 //Degrees
elevator_trim_limit = 12.0 //Degrees
spoiler_limit = 0.0 //Degrees
spoilerons_available = 0 //Spoilerons Available?
aileron_to_spoileron_gain = 0 //Aileron to spoileron gain
min_ailerons_for_spoilerons = 0 //Degrees
min_flaps_for_spoilerons = 0 //Minimum flap handle position when spoilerons activate
[Reference Speeds]
flaps_up_stall_speed = 87.5 //Knots True (KTAS)
full_flaps_stall_speed = 71.5 //Knots True (KTAS)
cruise_speed = 225.0 //Knots True (KTAS)
max_indicated_speed = 250 //Red line (KIAS)
[autopilot]
autopilot_available= 1
flight_director_available= 0
pitch_takeoff_ga=0.0
default_vertical_speed=700.000000
autothrottle_available=0
direction_indicator=1
attitude_indicator =1
max_pitch=10.000000
max_pitch_acceleration=1.000000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.500000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.000000
max_bank=25.000000
max_bank_acceleration=1.800000
max_bank_velocity=3.000000
max_throttle_rate=0.100000
nav_proportional_control=9.000000
nav_integrator_control=0.250000
nav_derivative_control=0.000000
nav_integrator_boundary=2.500000
nav_derivative_boundary=0.000000
gs_proportional_control=9.520000
gs_integrator_control=0.260000
gs_derivative_control=0.000000
gs_integrator_boundary=0.700000
gs_derivative_boundary=0.000000
yaw_damper_gain = 0.0
default_bank_mode=2 //Default to Heading Hold
[forcefeedback]
ground_bumps_magnitude1=2600 ; 0 - 10000
ground_bumps_angle1=8900 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
ground_bumps_intercept1=5.0
ground_bumps_slope1=0.6
ground_bumps_magnitude2=1200 ; 0 - 10000
ground_bumps_angle2=9100 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
ground_bumps_intercept2=0.085
ground_bumps_slope2=0.65
crash_magnitude1=10000 ; 0 - 10000
crash_direction1=01000 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
crash_magnitude2=10000 ; 0 - 10000
crash_direction2=9000 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
crash_period2=75000 ; in microseconds
crash_duration2=3500000 ; in microseconds
[stall_warning]
type=1
[exits]
number_of_exits = 1
exit_rate.0 = 0.4 ;Percent

[Sunny9850]

Not sure how much it matters but you still have it set to 14 cylinders and it should of course be 18 for the R-3350s.

Stefan

[Milton Shupe]

She flies pretty well for me, takeoff was no issue lifting off smoothly nor was the landing without the nose slam you mentioned. Touchdown should be around 85-90 knots depending on weight.

However, I would recommend increasing elevator trim range to 20:
elevator_trim_limit = 20.0 //Degrees

And, correcting the CoG from 37% MAC to 25+, I used this to move it:
wing_pos_apex_lon = -13 //Feet, longitudinal distance from reference point, negative going aft


And, changing the engine section as Sunny9850 suggested with the 3350-75 parameters as a start. Cruise is in the ballpark of 227 kias at 32" MP after that change.

Drag seems too low now with the increased weight, both parasitic and induced, but I had no issues getting her to slow with patience and a flatter approach.

Lift from flaps seems weak once speeds get to short final ... keeping power on is essential for the lift but then the weak drag creates a speed issue.

Hope this provides another perspective for you.

[Ascua02]

Hello all:

OK lads, got a problem.

I like the bird and in the past I tried to do something with it (wishful thinking!!) the results are better forgotten :isadizzy: so I decided to follow the advice of the gurus.

Took careful note of the whole thread, dutifully copied all the archives and merrily started configuring the beast.

Try 1: Got Aeromed cfg, added the modifications from Milton and the engine section from Sunny9850. Airfile beech_baron_58. Got to the strip, fire the engines and throttled up. Sweet Jesus, left behind the SR-71 in the paralel runway, the airframe was vibrating (first time I've seen this in FS9) flying like a bat out of hell... The experiment finished when I overstressed the airframe by overspeeding when climbing at 1300fpm on cruise settings. Oops

Never mind, me bad

Try 2: Got Aeromed cfg, added the modifications from Milton and the engine section from Sunny9850. Airfile Fairchild C119 (the original, me thinks). Got to the strip, fire the engines, throttle up. Calm, relax, it is bound to accelerate... give a shave to the squirrell in the tree at the end of the runway and at 100mph, balls to the wall, AoA was over 5 degrees, climb rate zilch and unable to accelerate except in a dive (I think, was not high enough to try!!)

Now, all this seems to indicate that I'm doing something wrong.

Can somebody tell me which combination of air file and aircraft.cfg are we talking about so I can follow the development, which BTW i find pretty interesting, and that the bird desserves.

Thanks in advance chaps and again thanks for taking up the subject, you made us proud!!!:ernae:

[magoo]

I'm going to post some new flight models in a bit. Should fix all issues.
First will be a C-119-C/F with P&W 4369, Aeroproducts 4 blade prop.

I think with the different mdl's we've got, and the different performance values between engines and props, I'll issues files with the idea that different planes will be divided into separate folders. these will be unfinished betas, Flightsim enthuisiast's input required.

Probably put'em up in a few hours.

Who knows the signifigance of Daisuke's long nose/ short nose models? I remember the RCAF running C-119 G's with long nose...I imagine all weather radar. Was this specific to certain models, perhaps late fifties, early sixties??

[p3aewguy]

I'm going to post some new flight models in a bit. Should fix all issues.
First will be a C-119-C/F with P&W 4369, Aeroproducts 4 blade prop.

I think with the different mdl's we've got, and the different performance values between engines and props, I'll issues files with the idea that different planes will be divided into separate folders. these will be unfinished betas, Flightsim enthuisiast's input required.

Probably put'em up in a few hours.

Who knows the signifigance of Daisuke's long nose/ short nose models? I remember the RCAF running C-119 G's with long nose...I imagine all weather radar. Was this specific to certain models, perhaps late fifties, early sixties??

The long nose housed a radar antenna for weather and navigation. They were used by the Canadians and the USMC. Checking in Aerofax's C-82 and C-119 reference book, I can find no other military operator's of these versions. Post military service, the Canadian C-119s were flown as fire tankers and retired from that when banned from fire fighting due to structural fatigue and failures. Looking forward to your updates!

Dave

[Brian_Gladden]

the pair still hauling freight in Alaska are short nose variants. One regular and one with the aux jet engine...

Nice website about the planes.

http://www.flyingboxcar.com/

[Milton Shupe]

Thanks for sharing that Brian; a good read.

[magoo]

Okay. These are some files that I started about a year ago when I rediscovered Daisuke's C-82 and C-119 models. I recalled that Jay McDaniel ( Farmboy) wrote a flight model update for the C.82 Packet. It's here in the library, so I downloaded, installed, and liked it.
The C-119 was lacking, though.

Reading this thread gave me the kick required to refocus my effort. This is really an attractive and well done visual rendition of such a legendary craft. (See Brian Gladden's link above....amazing still...!)

So, okay. We've got a pile of MDL files, long nose, short nose, three blade, four blade, a kerosene burner on the roof.....yeah, yeah, yeah.

Let's make it simple.

Let's begin with a new folder. Label it something like C-119C, or C-119C R4360, or whatever you like, as long as it's distinctive and easy to remember, easy to find.

Copy into this new folder (From Daisuke's original C-119 folder) the folders labeled,"model, model.nose4prop, panel, sound, and texture." Add the files from the zip attatched here, and you've assembled the basic kit for a Fairchild C-119C with Pratt&Whitney R.4360's, and Hamilton Standard four bladed props.

That I would describe this as a "C" model airframe, please note that I do this loosely. Let's say it's a facsimily of "C", the essence of Pratt&Whitney.

I wanted this flight model to have a family feel comparable to Jay McDaniel's C-82 physics. Some of his entries have been referenced to maintain a likeness, as if they existed in the same universe. It is...a flight simulator....even if only for the desktop in a massively destandard real world techie manner.

What to look for:

I've quoted limiting specs from an FAA data sheet issued in 1970. Operating speeds, etc. The plane will easily exceed those. It'll run as it would have in the early nineteen-fifties. FlightSim doesn't seem to recognize the octane rating (or lack of.....)from those generic little fuel pump stations that populate the flightsim world. I wouldn't over-run one of these old ladies in real life, and it'd sure be nice to nail down some sort of gauge that would punish flyers who ran her over fifty-two lbs on takeof....etc,etc.
A gauge that could program a prop runaway or involuntary prop-reverse could be a hoot. Fouling fifty-six sparkplugs or generating an magnesium case fire that melts a wing spar in fifteen seconds would be a....ummm....well....let's forget the magnesium flare effect, and just focus on trying to replace fifty-six spark plugs in an eight hour shift.....

And..... that's all beyond me...I table those whims as a distant wish.

I did find a conversation over at Cal-Classic regarding a gauge in the new Convair C.340 that provides cowl flap drag....good one to try later.

As well...I'm at a bit of a loss for the moment as to how one could evoke reverse pitch on a piston engine prop in FS.
Again...some talk about a Martin Bar in Cal Classic's DC-7C.....heady stuff for a guy who spends most of his time in France and Italy floating around in biplanes. That'll be looked at later. Anybody want to dig in now, I'd be happy.

What to look for here:

I'm uncertain about the flaps. They seemed small for the plane, and yes...real world pilots have mentioned that. Did I create a believeable effect here? Do they generate enough lift, drag....too much(?)....does the plane pitch the right way......believably?

Fuel......I've got FAA data on fuel tank capacity, I know this tank sits in the wing outboard of the engine nacelle, that tank sits inboard....but then there's a pair that sit within the fuselage....but where? I put them up top, inline with the other fuel tanks, away from the cargo area, where the main spar passes through the fuselage. It seems a logical guess.....would they be there on the real aircraft?

The cargo bay.

She's got 10,000 pounds of stuff to haul by my default. Seems reasonable. To keep the plane balanced, I've loaded her like this:

Cargo Bay Payload Points, 1000 lbs each default:

(Points 0-2 are flight deck crew.)

+14 feet CoG, lateral placement, 3 ft. left and right of center, No's 3 and 4

+8 feet CoG, lateral placement, 3 ft. left and right of center, No's 5 and 6

+2 feet CoG, lateral placement, 3 ft. left and right of center, No's 7 and 8

-4 feet CoG, lateral placement, 3 ft. left and right of center, No's 9 and 10

-10 feet CoG, lateral placement, 3 ft. left and right of center, No's 11 and 12

...With this data, the user can modify the loadouts through FS, or go right into the Aircraft.CFG and create heavier and/or more concentrated loads and easily maintain an effectively balance aircraft knowing the relavance of each load point to the aircraft's CoG. Users with the ACM program can simply load up the C-119 and visually randomize the load pattern with even less effort.

Next I'll work out a Curtiss Wright powered plane, a later three bladed prop variant, and then look at those jet-pod things. I haven't the slightest idea how to render a multi-type powerplant aircraft in the flight model.

Just approximating the thrust with an average of "three" piston engines seems disatisfying. My mind wanders back to gauges. Could an XML guru come with a way to evoke an auxilary jet turbine, and trigger a separate sound set as well as the thrust value, repleat with throttle lag?

Hmmmm.

Here's the files. Have at'er boys. Let me know what it does on your FS setup. It's just beta, I'm open to changes any which way but loose.

23423

[magoo]

oh yes, one last point.

Effects.

I always fiddle the effects as planes come aboard the little world in my computer. When releasing a flight model, I always rewrite to flightsim default (yawn) effects so users recieve a standard treatment. Many will trick out the effects to suit themselves afterwards.

This aircraft.cfg still has a few non standard effects entries.

[effects]
wake = fx_wake
water = fx_spray
dirt = fx_dustrun
concrete = fx_sparks
touchdown = fx_tchdwn, 1
contrail = fx_wop_contrail_s
startup = fx_wop_engstrt-b29
windshield_rain_effect_available = 1

Dustrun is by Bill lyons. It was included in most of his releases, and is still my favorite way to evoke a dust devil in FS. Available wherever Bill Lyon's aircaft are downloadable.

A couple of entries pointing to Wings of Power aircraft effects, the B-29 startup puts the exhaust in the right place....if indeed for an impossibly tight and clean starting compound-radial mill....

If you don't have the Wings of Power b-29 installed, or Bill Lyons "dustrun" effect, be aware you need to add something of your own.

....also....this entry:

[smokesystem]
smoke.0 = -8.0, -50.0, 15.0, fx_nicks_watrsnoland_m
smoke.1 = -8.0, -50.0, -15.0, fx_nicks_watrsnoland_m

.....Gee....I remember that vaguely. Some amazing effects under Nick's name...but this one doesn't click. I wonder what it did...? I'll check it out tomorrow after work. In the mean time, users be aware....change it if the effect does nothing in your sim.

[Milton Shupe]

Excellent magoo ... will check it out. :jump:

EDIT: WOW! Just took her through the flight tests ... everything feels perfect through all phases of flight and taxi. Very stable, believeable, expected responses were right on in drag, pitch, yaw, and throttle responses. Induced and parasitic drags seemed perfect. Pitch from gear and flaps were right on re: my expectations. Takeoff, climbout, crusie, approach, and finals were perfect for me. Excellent work all around. Thank you very much Magoo. :-))) This is a keeper. I did not give much attention to the ancilliary things but will check them out later today. The lights look great and sitting static on the tarmac and suspension is much better. :-)

[modelr]

Following along faithfully here. One of my favorite aircraft. Thanks for all the work being done here. Only wish I had more skills and time to really help out.

[Ascua02]

Took her for a short flight, everything correct, only problem with all wingtip lights, but that can be sorted in minutes.

Great effort Magoo!!

Thanks

[Volker Böhme]

Hi Magoo,

feel free to post any questions at theCalClassic forum - I'm sure a C-119 would be appreciated there as well. Someone might come up with additional infornation.

Best regards,
Volker

[smilo]

Following along faithfully here. One of my favorite aircraft. Thanks for all the work being done here. Only wish I had more skills and time to really help out.

same here...well said, modelr.
nothing more to add
except, many thanks, indeed. :salute:

[Z-claudius24]

Hi,

Thank's for FM


only problem with all wingtip lights, but that can be sorted in minutes.

For those who don't have free minutes ... :)

[lights]

//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing

light.0 = 3, -0.6, -54.52, 3.4, fx_navredh
light.1 = 3, -0.56, 54.52, 3.4, fx_navgreh
light.2 = 2, -0.51, -54.52, 3.4, fx_strobeh
light.3 = 2, -0.54, 54.52, 3.4, fx_strobeh
light.4 = 2, -51.86, -14.26, 5.68, fx_navwhi
light.5 = 2, -51.86, 14.27, 5.68, fx_navwhi
light.6 = 1, -47.95, -14.32, 17.89, fx_beaconh
light.7 = 1, -47.95, 14.30, 17.89, fx_beaconh
light.8 = 4, 14.66, 2.76, 1.96, fx_vclight
light.9 = 4, 14.67, -2.74, 1.94, fx_vclight
light.10 = 4, 9.30, 4.29, 1.94, fx_vclight
light.11 = 2, 3.93, 0, 7.05, fx_strobeh

[Milton Shupe]

Thank you Claudius, that is appreciated. :applause:

Now, back to the AT-11. :)

[PeteHam]

Thanks to all who have shared their skills and knowledge to get this classic flying.

:ernae:

Pete.

[smilo]

Thanks to all who have shared their skills and knowledge to get this classic flying.

:ernae:

Pete.
and thanks to you, Pete,
for getting the ball rolling on this one.

I flew a mission in a C-119
way back in '69.
we had just kicked the cargo
out the back door,
when the pilot banked hard
to see if we hit the target.
there I was, standing there,
looking straight down at the ground,
centrifugal force holding me in place.
damn, that was fun!

BTW, Happy Belated Birthday

sorry,
the candles have burned out,
the music has died down,
the ice cream has melted,
there's only one piece
of stale cake left,
and worst of all,
we drank all the beer.
dang, what a bunch of
worthless, inconsiderate hoons

:birthday:

[OleBoy]

FS2004 Fairchild C-119 Prop Texture
[ Download (http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=126451) | View (http://www.flightsim.com/zview.php?cm=list&fid=126451) ]
Name: c119prop.zip (http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=126451) Size: 182,815 Date: 08-25-2008 Downloads: 521
http://www.flightsim.com/n/c119prop.gif
FS2004 Fairchild C-119 Prop Texture. An alternative prop texture for Daisuke Yamamoto's C119 Flying Boxcar (C119BXCR.ZIP (http://www.flightsim.com/file.php?cm=SEARCH1&fsec=0&fname=C119BXCR.ZIP)). By Bob Rivera.

[magoo]

Hmmm....yeah. The BananaBob prop textures really add a good visual to this mdl. There's some nice paints out there too, USAF textures by Eric Joiner, a really nice RCAF texture by Jim Hanson, among a host of others. I think Heather Sherman created some paints that you'd want to bring to a party. All great stuff.

Just hit the file search function at Fightsim, type in "C-119". Then just separate the Daisuke mdl paints from the Mike Stone ones, and you're into the grande buffet.

Thanks for the kind words regarding the flight model, boys. I've twiddled up an R-3350 version, it was an interesting and short excercise on how to skin a cat in a slightly different manner. The CT engines seem to develop a flatter torque curve in the FS program, but I'd defy the average sim-pilot to notice the difference. I'll test it a bit tonight, and then put it up.

Pete Ham has offered to send me some really good info, we'll see what happens once it's in my hands. Maybe it'll change everything, maybe not. Keen to see where my "guesstimates" have left me.

I'll probably make up a downrated late model variant (street-survivor) with three bladed props next....and then take a hard look at XML gauge stuff. It be a dream if one could program a seperate jet pod that could be powered up at will, deliver independant thrust, smoke and noise.

No promises there, rather than methodically put my foot in my mouth. It may well be over my head, but worth a looksee anyway....

Happy flights!

[aeromed202]

I tried your tweaks Magoo and thought they made the aircraft fly kind of like it had little mass to it. I know I tend to go a bit far the other way and when I review something I've done in the past end up scaling back the carry-through on surface inputs, like I'm doing now. My sliders are at 3/4 or closer to realistic. I'm also limited to CFG alterations.

Like the cargo points, haven't put them in yet. Sprinkling in Miltons comments too.

[Milton Shupe]

Yes, Magoo has the aircraft loaded up pretty heavy as the default. Simply lightening the load (points) should make a big difference.

BTW, I run all realism sliders maxed, and of course, our controls are likely set for differing sensitivities and null zones. Always makes it tough for a developer of these things. :)

Thanks for all your efforts.

EDIT: BTW, for those folks who like to do the circuits and shorter flights, it might be good to lighten the load and set fuel to a lower level so as not to exceed the max weight for landing.

[magoo]

As with Milton, I run my sim with realism sliders maxed out. I'd advise all sim-pilots to open the fuel and payload window while selecting the plane, reducing all freight entries to zero, drop the fuel load to 25-30%, and having an instructional flight. I don't know if you could barrel roll it with enough altitude....but I wouldn't be surprised.

Maybe empty the wing tanks and see.....

With 56 cylinders and FlightSim's high octane avgas.....Ol'Dollar Nineteen will certainly stand up and beg, and will not be easy to get back on the ground with zero payload and vaporous fuel tanks.

Don't let those pesky FAA guys catchya doin' that......

[Z-claudius24]

Hi,

Dust cleaned :)

Video:

http://simtube.com/video/4310/Fairchild-C-119-Flying-Boxcar

http://i55.tinypic.com/xmiqhf.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/ozihg.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2461kkw.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/iwnr7o.jpg

[falcon409]

Working on the livery shown below. Just starting actually using the layered paint kit I manufactured:

[OleBoy]

Nice one. I'll watch for it to land

[falcon409]

Coming along. One thing I've noticed though (and this is in FSX right now) the L/H vertical stab has no texture and I don't see a texture file for it in the folder.

[Sunny9850]

C119_03 and C119_12 are the two Rudder textures in my folders. I'd check first if they are both there and have the correct formats. I think one was a mirror image of the other....but I am not positive on that one.

Stefan

[falcon409]

Thanks Stefan, I found it in another texture file. Not sure why it didn't copy over to the new texture folder, but all is well now. . .Thanks again!!:salute:

[Z-IanMCD]

Hi,

Dust cleaned :)

Video:

http://simtube.com/video/4310/Fairchild-C-119-Flying-Boxcar

http://i55.tinypic.com/xmiqhf.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/ozihg.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2461kkw.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/iwnr7o.jpg


Nice vid Claudius!!!

[OBIO]

I just broke my C-119 package down into individual models. Makes it a bit easier when selecting the various models for flights...and hopefully there will be dedicated FDE for the various types soon.

C-119A = 3 Blade Prop, Short Nose
C-119B = 3 Blade Prop, Long Nose, Jet Pack
C-119C Short Nose = 4 Blade Prop, Short Nose
C-119C Long Nose = 4 Blade Prop, Long Nose
C-119D Short Nose = 4 Blade Prop, Jet Pack, Short Nose
C-119 D Long Nose = 4 Blade Prop, Jet Pack, Long Nose

I have a paint kit done for the C-119 (and the C-82) but I never got around to doing a single complete skin. I do need to make a couple tweaks to the panel lines on the fuselage to reduce some jaggies in a few spots...but other than that the paint kit is ready to roll.

OBIO

My favorite variant of the C-119 is the 3 blade, short nose version.

[fliger747]

I see the huge cowl flaps fully open. For most such installations, such as DC6 etc, the cowl flaps can cause a huge drag (1/2 total airplane drag for the KC97) and certainly severe buffeting of the tail surfaces. For the DC6, a 4 deg trail was about the max in flight. Sometimes after a long taxi, the FE would start the takeoff run with them open and move them to trail as airspeed gathered.

I suppose one could tie the cowl flap position to a spoiler drag effect, though not sure how a buffet could be implemented.

Good work guys! T

[Volker Böhme]

Hi,

cowl flap drag modelled as spoiler drag is indeed modeleld in most aircraft hosted at CalClassic.Com. It might be worth looking into their gauge folders. I dont' think the gauge designers will refuse you permission to use their gauges if you ask them.

Best regards,
Volker

[Sunny9850]

The only slight catch with that use of Spoiler drag is that you might have the occasional user that runs into performance problems due to extended spoiler simulation on an aircraft that doesn't actually have a spoiler as such....usually that is caused by having a spoiler axis assigned in FSUIPC. So a warning in a Readme would probably be advisable.

But then again who reads those :salute::salute:

Stefan

[falcon409]

I little more research to find another shot that shows the tail markings and this one will be ready:

[Sunny9850]

Finally had a chance to take this "new" C-119 out for a quick test flight. And I think one word tots it up nicely. WOW.

It is way more than a modification. It's a transformation that finally makes this superbly modeled airplane fly like it should. Heavy or light I think she feels quite right for the airplane she is.

Thank you very much.... this is what I had been hoping for when I discussed this with Pete and then some.

Cheers
Stefan

[OBIO]

Here's my first small contribution to the updating and restoration of the C-119. A revised engine texture file. I lightened it to allow the rear cylinders to be slightly visible and added some nice hi-vis orange performace plug wires.

23692

OBIO

[magoo]

....And here's a flight model with slight adjustments to render a facsimily of the Curtiss Wright R3350 mill and Aeroproducts four bladed prop. I was a little surprised with the realization of how few entries we have to differentiate between these two very different powerplants. I guess the bottom line is that with each new release of flightsim leaves us with fewer working detail entries in the airfile, while the aircraft.cfg grows in plain text values that denote more generic physics. (Lament....:costum:)

I haven't had much time to test this small change, but sim pilots should find roughly the same performance values, map is still 60 lbs (Low octane users please restrict to 52 lbs max....), but now one will find the props run up to 2900 rpm.

The torque curve may be a bit flatter, and if I got it right, there may be marginally better performance at high altitude.

I took her out for a ten minute cruise from Tofino, BC last night, full load, full fuel. With this setup things seemed to be an bit sluggish, but it may have been me after a hard day at work.

Please let me know if this is the case, it should come across as a load of the same old beans, on a slightly different plate.

Pete Ham, please sent that info over anytime, I've setup the meat grinder and am keen to get through it.

thanks all, see the files attached.

[stuartcox]

I always ignored this download until you reincarnated it!
The input you lot have given is incredible!
I have been following the thread step by step and wouldn't know who to thank first!
This is one of my 'favourites' now!
Thanks to everybody!

Stuart 23708

[falcon409]

The original textures are 4096x4096. For FS9, what size is ideal and should it be 32bit or DXT3 or both?

[johnh_049]

The original textures are 4096x4096. For FS9, what size is ideal and should it be 32bit or DXT3 or both?
for fs9 no bigger than 1024 X 1024. dxt3 is better on frame rates. but 32 bit can look better.

[magoo]

I've had some enquiry about Jay McDaniel's (Farmboy) flight model for the C-82 Packet by Daisuke. It's listed in the Library archive at this site, but I've checked and recieved a 404 code when trying to download.

I've managed to retrieve Farmboy's original file from my personal deep storage, and have just uploaded it to the library here. It includes an upgraded mdl integrated with the flight model, and a panel upgrade. Essentially the entire aircraft model is in there, ready to fly.

A prayer for Jay's blessing that we're still enjoying his work, and my hope that he's happy and thriving. Last I heard he had departed on a BMW flat twin for a really long pub crawl across the continental USA.

[Tom Clayton]

As far as I know, FS9 won't play nice with anything over 1024x1024. As far as format, try both. Some models don't display DXT textures well, while some systems get bogged down by 32-bit.

D'OH! Didn't catch John's response...

[falcon409]

As far as I know, FS9 won't play nice with anything over 1024x1024. As far as format, try both. Some models don't display DXT textures well, while some systems get bogged down by 32-bit.

D'OH! Didn't catch John's response...
Thanks Tom, once completed (one more day probably), I'll release it for FS9 with 1024x1024 and 32bit/DXT3 textures. In FSX 4096x4096/2048x2048/32bit.:salute:

[falcon409]

Ok, here is a link to download the livery:
http://www.box.net/shared/y88t1gqkrs

The zip contains two folders, one "32bit" and one "DXT3". copy all the textures from your main C-119 texture folder into a new one named "texture.733". Next copy the textures from whatever folder you want to use into the new folder and overwrite when asked. Load the aircraft and take a look. I did not add alpha channels yet so there is no shine to it. This is more of an experiment to see if the skins work and if anyone sees anything obvious that needs to be changed.

Thanks!

[OBIO]

One thing that strikes me about the C-119 models is the amount of specular shine assigned to the material that makes up external aircraft. Far too much specular shine for my taste...so I am going to reduce it by at least 50%.

For those who want to make similar adjustments to the MDL material settings, NORAB uploaded a nice PDF version of the tutorial I wrote up on using Martin Wright's MDLmat utility to adjust specular shine. The PDF tutorial is in the FS2004 library, under OTHER. It's an easy adjustment to make...just make a back up copy of the original MDL files, open the MDL in MDLmat and adjust the Specular setting on the very first material in the list. In stock form it is set to 255, 255, 255 (which is the max specular setting). I have adjusted mine down to 100, 100, 100. Much better more to my liking.

OBIO

[OBIO]

Anyone have a recommendation for a good replacement for the stock 3-blade prop texture. I;m sure BananaBob or Cazzie have more than a few great 3-blade prop textures....I just don't know where they might be found.

OBIO

[rohan]

Tim,
I thought that had already been posted, but here it is anyway,
Ro

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/page.php?lloc=downloads&loc=downloads&page=info&FileID=12290

[OBIO]

rohan

The prop texture in that package is for the 4-blade prop. Looks great! But it has one blade too many to be useful for the 3-blade prop.

OBIO

[rohan]

... oops ... then I guess Bob didn't do a 3 blade version, otherwise it would be in my library,
Ro

[rohan]

as an alternative, would the new prop texture in the C-82 upgrade posted yesterday be any good, suitably renamed of course ?

[Ascua02]

Hello Lads!

I found the thread quite interesting and my c-119 is looking (and behaving) like a charm.

I also wanted to contribute by giving you an extension to the panel with gauges for the fuel tanks and possibly (if I can screw my neurone enough) a tank selector, however, I hit a snag with the gauges i created as the needles do not want to colaborate:a1451::banghead::banghead:.

Problem is they go round and round 3 times before showing something and when they do is wrong, been looking in a lot of forums but I cannot find a solution, and the worst is I think it must be something silly (more :banghead::banghead:). Somebody up to have a look-see in the code??

Saludos

P.S. I have also to say that threads and sites like this make me proud of all of us
THANKS! :salute:

[WolfFlight]

Heather is alive and well over at FSEconomy

She has redone the C119 and her model is a dream...

It is for FSE members only though...

If you are wondering what she has been up to... she has done many repaints...

she just recently did a custom paint on a C177 for an FSE member to make it match his actual plane and panel... she did a knockout job...

[Milton Shupe]

Anyone have a recommendation for a good replacement for the stock 3-blade prop texture. I;m sure BananaBob or Cazzie have more than a few great 3-blade prop textures....I just don't know where they might be found.

OBIO

You could try the BB texture for the A-26 ... 3-blade.

[OleBoy]

I found over at avsim.ru;
Airplane Fairchild C-119 'Flying Boxcar' 32bit textures.
File name hs-119-32.zip

I assumed they were 32bit textures only. Once downloaded, it contains the whole aircraft. For anyone interested, here is the link

http://www.avsimrus.com/f/fs2004-aircrafts-40/fairchild-c-119-1661.html?action=download&hl=

[gaucho_59]

Here are the tweaks I did just to get her more flyable. She is not accurate but at least easily flyable.

For a more accurate FM, I would start from scratch because the air file tables need to match up better with this aircraft but this is useable.

Thanks for taking on the task aeromed202. :applause:
You sound knowledgeable in this area of model tweaking... I have an excellent visual model of a Connie EC-121 that has the front landing gear placed wrongly... IT IS AT A 90 DEGREE ANGLE TO THE MIDLINE OF THE AIRCRAFT instead of being IN LINE fore and aft... is there a remedy for this??? I have no way to contact the original designer... Please advise via private message if you know of a solution to this problem...

[Sunny9850]

Shameless plug.......download the Manfred Jahn Lockheed Constellation series available at Flightsim.com. We did cover all versions of the triple tailed beauty including the military variants.
Start with the base pack of the L-1049 and the upgrades and then add the EC-121 variants from this file.

http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=136191

And for a simulated radar station add this.
http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=145703

In case that is the one you are talking about and not the older Mike Stone version then you most likely tried to modify the package for example by using a different panel folder.
That does not work .... and can in some instances cause the model animations to go haywire.

Cheers
Stefan

[Z-claudius24]

Hi,


In case that is the one you are talking about and not the older Mike Stone version then you most likely tried to modify the package for example by using a different panel folder.
That does not work .... and can in some instances cause the model animations to go haywire.Can be a solution to try (work with some Posky models when you use third party panel as it's the same nosewheel prob.. )
You must put in your third party panel.cfg .. some stances from the VC original panel.cfg and also (maybe! ) the gauges for dito...
Try some combinations and you will solve your prob hopefuly

[Sunny9850]

There is a lot going on behind the scenes with our Connie. The main items that must be transplanted are the Starliner.gau file and the specific versions C-121***sim.xml file that is called up in the panel.cfg of the original package.
But even then it is highly unlikely that it will ever work correctly and fly like it should. All of them are really designed as a complete package with extensive development to make it work just like the real one did in both feel and POH numbers.

Stefan

[Jagdflieger]

Thanks to everyone for the overhaul on Daisuki-san's nice Dollar Nineteen. Mine is now up and flying well.

[smilo]

yup, i agree with you, Dave.
she's one of my faves.

[Gerdoner]

Okay. These are some files that I started about a year ago when I rediscovered Daisuke's C-82 and C-119 models. I recalled that Jay McDaniel ( Farmboy) wrote a flight model update for the C.82 Packet. It's here in the library, so I downloaded, installed, and liked it.
The C-119 was lacking, though.

[...]

What to look for here:

I'm uncertain about the flaps. They seemed small for the plane, and yes...real world pilots have mentioned that. Did I create a believeable effect here? Do they generate enough lift, drag....too much(?)....does the plane pitch the right way......believably?

Fuel......I've got FAA data on fuel tank capacity, I know this tank sits in the wing outboard of the engine nacelle, that tank sits inboard....but then there's a pair that sit within the fuselage....but where? I put them up top, inline with the other fuel tanks, away from the cargo area, where the main spar passes through the fuselage. It seems a logical guess.....would they be there on the real aircraft?

The cargo bay.

She's got 10,000 pounds of stuff to haul by my default. Seems reasonable. To keep the plane balanced, I've loaded her like this:

Cargo Bay Payload Points, 1000 lbs each default:

(Points 0-2 are flight deck crew.)

+14 feet CoG, lateral placement, 3 ft. left and right of center, No's 3 and 4

+8 feet CoG, lateral placement, 3 ft. left and right of center, No's 5 and 6

+2 feet CoG, lateral placement, 3 ft. left and right of center, No's 7 and 8

-4 feet CoG, lateral placement, 3 ft. left and right of center, No's 9 and 10

-10 feet CoG, lateral placement, 3 ft. left and right of center, No's 11 and 12

...With this data, the user can modify the loadouts through FS, or go right into the Aircraft.CFG and create heavier and/or more concentrated loads and easily maintain an effectively balance aircraft knowing the relavance of each load point to the aircraft's CoG. Users with the ACM program can simply load up the C-119 and visually randomize the load pattern with even less effort.

Next I'll work out a Curtiss Wright powered plane, a later three bladed prop variant, and then look at those jet-pod things. I haven't the slightest idea how to render a multi-type powerplant aircraft in the flight model.

Just approximating the thrust with an average of "three" piston engines seems disatisfying. My mind wanders back to gauges. Could an XML guru come with a way to evoke an auxilary jet turbine, and trigger a separate sound set as well as the thrust value, repleat with throttle lag?

Hmmmm.

Here's the files. Have at'er boys. Let me know what it does on your FS setup. It's just beta, I'm open to changes any which way but loose.

23423

Sorry for the massive bump, but does anyone still have the file magoo mentioned?I'm also searching for the paintkit mentioned in the thread

[casey jones]

There was a movie with James Stewart flying a C-82 which I found on my Cd I have kept for
years then there was a re-make of the Flight Of The Phinox but using a C-119. Then on
the FS.Com I found a copy of a dl FS9 C-119 prop but I could never get it to start its engines
or fly, I can'nt remmenber the author so I was surprised no one wrote him that there was
a problem with this very shineny C-119.

Cheers

Casey