I think I'm out.....

[skyhawka4m]

Well......its been fun but I think I'll be taking a break from SOH.

Its too bad that when you express your opinion a couple things happen:

1. you get the usual crew who go on the personal attack wave who always find the time to degrade others just because they expressed their opinion or distaste for something or a practise.

2. Developers show no spine and defend their products and just take their ball and run home.

3. Developers just ignore issues because they "think" they know better.


So...my two cents will be saved for a while....maybe I'll save up enough to get the A-10 when it comes out......hopefully.

[stansdds]

Unfortunately, these things are often a part of life. I've learned to have a pretty thick skin about things, at least until I'm attacked on a personal level. I've given my opinions and advice on projects, sometimes developers don't listen or don't want to hear it, but that's their problem, not mine. I feel that my place is to give constructive criticism and advice, it is other people's place to listen or ignore, but I'm simply not going to let their actions destroy my enjoyment of flight sims or SOH.

[Kiwikat]

Sometimes everyone needs a bit of a break. I'm on my way back from a very much needed 2-3 month break from SOH...

Whatever your decision, I'm sure we'll see you around again. :salute:

[kilo delta]

Welcome home KIWI !


@skyhawk... as the others have pointed out. This is just an internet forum. No point getting all worked up over anything said or done in cyberspace......it's not like it's real life ;) :)

[Bone]

Great idea, a man's got to know his limitations. I hit my tolerance threshold and took a break from November to Febuary.

[BOOM]

Ahhh Bummer Bud,I always enjoy your commentary and input you bring to SOH,I hope to see you back soon.

[jankees]

Bummer indeed, but I understand very well.
See you around elsewhere!

[dharris]

You may want a break and that is not a bad thing, but I have learned over the years, and years, and years, that alot of the personal attacks are because of the shallowness of the the attackers. There are few all over the net forums to be sure. I have had my posts done that way too. But I won't let the idiots win, some folks like what I bring to topics, so for them I am in it for the long haul. With out the genuine support and advice from the real members here and elsewhere, fsx and simming would not be as interesting and the technical advice I have had from some members like Ted and a few others, I would not have had if I turned tail. If the nut cases bother you, just don't post for awhile, and lurk. This forum still has a lot of useful info and some fine people in general. The wack jobs, well, just consider the source. Yea I will probably get some for this post but nothing I can't handle. Please reconsider. Don

[Sid2008]

The whole world is becoming uncivil and crass. I think that individuals on these forums who engage in personal attacks should be penalized by prevention of their posts for at least one month. I am sorry for this gentleman who was offended by these attacks. Indeed they are offensive, but there should also be room for forgiveness.

My 2 cents.

Sid

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

The whole world is becoming uncivil and crass. I think that individuals on these forums who engage in personal attacks should be penalized by prevention of their posts for at least one month. I am sorry for this gentleman who was offended by these attacks. Indeed they are offensive, but there should also be room for forgiveness.

My 2 cents.

Sid
Indeed right and 2cents well spent , i see parallels between these dramas and what our remote ancestors did whilst screaming loudly, whacking sticks against the ground and gesticulating wildly .<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I don’t believe conflicts have gotten less common or more civilized over a few million years , but tools to deliver a whack with have evolved indeed.<o:p></o:p>

[gera]

Amigo you are doing the right thing....I did that about a year ago, took off and stayed away totally!!!! after a while you get refreshed, like after a cool shower, you walk the other forums and chat here and there with other pilotos, designers and just simers of all types and backgrounds, not the same all crowd!!!! but surely with some crows!!! maybe......then you visit a Brontosauros store, they have different dinosaur shields, of all shapes and some pretty good swords and lances (mental ones at that), so you get a few.....after some months you wake up one day and having had a crash the night before in some lonely freeware airfield you start a flight and notice that the compas points to SOH!!!! you wonder what´s going on.....and open the url.....WOW!!!! you find your old buddy, Gulky Burly, with a disk crash and crying all over for his lost TR33 (??)..so you PM him and after 45 minutes you are back chatting with, sure, your old buddies and, not too buddies, at the well known address.......goodby have fun and, welcome.......

[OleBoy]

You may want a break and that is not a bad thing, but I have learned over the years, and years, and years, that alot of the personal attacks are because of the shallowness of the the attackers. There are few all over the net forums to be sure. I have had my posts done that way too. But I won't let the idiots win, some folks like what I bring to topics, so for them I am in it for the long haul. With out the genuine support and advice from the real members here and elsewhere, fsx and simming would not be as interesting and the technical advice I have had from some members like Ted and a few others, I would not have had if I turned tail. If the nut cases bother you, just don't post for awhile, and lurk. This forum still has a lot of useful info and some fine people in general. The wack jobs, well, just consider the source. Yea I will probably get some for this post but nothing I can't handle. Please reconsider. Don

The man speaketh the truth. :salute::ernae:

[gajit]

Is just a game :bump:

But I know where your coming from.

[Smokey Joe]

I just finished a two month break. Went inactive on everything and just did other things. It was really refreshing. Battles that seemed important then are ancient history now. New people come online and others fade away. There's new sim stuff to explore. A break can be really good.

[guzler]

Jee's, it's just a chat forum and I don't mean to belittle the site in anyway. There's people dieing all over the world and a chat forum becomes too much for people, how out of perspective things must of become :isadizzy:

A break definitely needed !

[Aviator32]

I think we should have a weekly poll about who should have a break next. The 'winner' gets to nominate the next half a dozen candidates :engel016:

[PRB]

I think everyone needs to stop and breath. Take a walk outside. Stand in the rain for a couple of minutes. These food fight threads sometimes remind me of those big car crashes on the interstate. Some people were just minding their own business and got wiped out. Some people were going too fast. Some people were “rubber-necking” and caused another crash. Nobody thinks they did anything wrong. Everyone thinks they know what happened. And always two or three cars don't make it out the other end of the fog bank... It is, in the end, “just a game.” Lets try and practice the “let being helpful be more important than being right” part of our “mission statement”...

[Rattler]

Well......its been fun but I think I'll be taking a break from SOH.

Its too bad that when you express your opinion a couple things happen:

1. you get the usual crew who go on the personal attack wave who always find the time to degrade others just because they expressed their opinion or distaste for something or a practise.

2. Developers show no spine and defend their products and just take their ball and run home.

3. Developers just ignore issues because they "think" they know better.


So...my two cents will be saved for a while....maybe I'll save up enough to get the A-10 when it comes out......hopefully.

Sir, I Agree 100%, But Sad That You are Yielding to a Few, I cant say that I Know you, But I have Always thought that You have Told it like it is, And Respect you for it, Hate to see Someone Being driven away because of Anyone!!!!, Stick by your Guns!!!! Hold your Ground!!!!:salute::salute::salute:

[falcon409]

I have had those times in the past as well skyhawka4m and thought I would just walk away from it and find something else to do, but invariably, within a few days I was right back in. . .lurking for a while and not posting, but not completely out of it as i had promised myself. It's too much fun here to just trash it all for the egotists who see themselves as legends in their own minds, lol.

For the most part, everyone knows who they are and gives them enough rope to hang themselves more often than not. Funny thing is, the offenders rarely see it that way and always walk away from the offending thread feeling quite righteous and self gratified, while everyone else is whispering behind their backs, lol.

I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of thinking that they got to you to the point that you felt compelled to leave. . .that's what they want. . .one less voice against their rantings. I say, stick around and make them miserable. . .it's a lot more fun.:salute:

[kilo delta]

I think we should have a weekly poll about who should have a break next. The 'winner' gets to nominate the next half a dozen candidates :engel016:

Well...I guess that's me gone then! :kilroy::icon_lol:

[jankees]

Well...I guess that's me gone then! :kilroy::icon_lol:

no, me, vote me!!

[OleBoy]

Over time I've come to realize that SOH has unity. Some show it, most don't. Those who do are here for the benefit of everyone's further enjoyment of flight simulator. Insults and intimidation comes easy. Those who walk those lines I ignore and move on for my better enjoyment of being here.

My only wish is that more knowledgeable members would show me how to sharpen my pencil and refine what I enjoy.
.........All in all I think SOH is a great place to be a member. I like it so much here, one of these days my name will appear as OleBoy

[Cazzie]

I had to do that with my model forums skyhawk, but take a little bit of advise my grandpa told me years ago when I would fall into despair after someone hurt my feelings: "Son, don't dwell on those that let you down, rather praise those that help lift you back up." I'll never forget that sage advise from a gentleman long departed.

caz

[Bjoern]

I think we should have a weekly poll about who should have a break next. The 'winner' gets to nominate the next half a dozen candidates :engel016:

I vote Bone. Because he drives CRJs for a living. And this is making me dead jealous.



:icon_lol:

[fsafranek]

Completely understand. Did the same myself for a while earlier in the year. Sometimes would love to just leave the whole thing behind -- this obsession has cost me dearly.

Don't stay away too long. Hangar space is in demand. :salute:
:ernae:

[Paul_Yorks]

Well... I'm not a regular here - but the main reason I hang around, is that this place has hardly any of the issues complained of, compared to some other sites.

Really, SOH is as friendly as it gets, imho. The big problem isn't the sites, it's the nature of the 'Net, where idiots can say stuff they'd never say in real life. But I reckon SOH has the greatest proportion of decent, honest, nice folks I've seen on any forum. Long may it continue.

[gera]

Completely understand. Did the same myself for a while earlier in the year. Sometimes would love to just leave the whole thing behind -- this obsession has cost me dearly.

Don't stay away too long. Hangar space is in demand. :salute:
:ernae:

You are so right.....real flying is an obsession and this hobby too!!!, I leave my PC on always so when I get home everything is set to go.......but as you say it can be an expensive one, at the same time....what´s money for??? enjoyment constant enjoyment.....:jump:( and....for women to take it away from ya!!)

[b52bob]

I always try to stay out of the nastiness.

I have only one thing to add: It's not what you say but the way you say it.

be civil and constructive, not rude and destructive!

Bob

[DennyA]

That's the funny thing... The people who get really upset about some of the discourse around here must not spend much time on forums. Sure, there are insufferable rivet counters, entitled kids who don't understand paying for people's efforts, and the occasionally just rude or inconsiderate person. But that's maybe 2 to 5% of the posts here at worst. Compared to 25% plus on most boards.

If you let the jerks drive you off the Internet, perhaps it's time to cancel the broadband and just use a dial-up modem to log on and send e-mail and pay bills. :) Because you haven't been able to have 95% mature, respectful conversation on the Internet since the day they hooked AOL up to it all those years ago.

But Gabe and Tycho simplify it well:
19786

S-O's fine. Tune out the few folks who don't play nice, and you won't find a better watering hole for sim geeks on the Intarwebs.

[MudMarine]

Well......its been fun but I think I'll be taking a break from SOH.

Its too bad that when you express your opinion a couple things happen:

1. you get the usual crew who go on the personal attack wave who always find the time to degrade others just because they expressed their opinion or distaste for something or a practise.

2. Developers show no spine and defend their products and just take their ball and run home.

3. Developers just ignore issues because they "think" they know better.


So...my two cents will be saved for a while....maybe I'll save up enough to get the A-10 when it comes out......hopefully.

I think there are more ignorant tactless twits around here than "bad" developers that you seem upset with! Don't like it, don't buy it. I'm getting pretty SICK of the "expressed" opinions around here!! If you can do better, do it yourself. The level of character around here the past few years has dropped!! It's about HOW opinions are expressed, not expressing them in the first place.

[Blue]

I think there are more ignorant tactless twits around here than "bad" developers that you seem upset with! Don't like it, don't buy it. I'm getting pretty SICK of the "expressed" opinions around here!! If you can do better, do it yourself. The level of character around here the past few years has dropped!! It's about HOW opinions are expressed, not expressing them in the first place.

You claim it is HOW opinions are expressed but it is pretty clear to me that if anyone says ANYTHING even remotely negative about a developer you fly off the handle. You only seem concerned with YOUR opinion, the opinion of others seems to not matter and people who do not agree with you have to put up with your attacks. You did it more than once in the other thread and here you are in this thread kicking the guy when he is down. How about you grow up and get over yourself and understand that the world doesn't revolve around you and your opinions. That sometimes in life people are going to see things differently from you and developers are not demigods. They are normal people, they do not need bodyguards or fanboys that they can make mistakes or have people disagree with them and it is OK, the world is not going to end.

You flew off the handle in that other thread because people pointed out an issue about cost. Some people were not tactless. Some people were not rude. However that did not stop you from being tactless and rude to them. It did not stop you from dressing them down and jumping on your soap box did it? So it is pretty obvious to me your issue has nothing to do with tact. You just don't like the idea that someone said something negative about a product you just bought. Well get over it. This is the internet. This is a message board. People are going to express their opinions.

To the OP, don't let ignorant knuckle heads run you off. If you feel a certain way about something then express yourself. If someone is going to be a jerk and jump up on a soap box calling you names just ignore them. They will be the ones who end up looking like the jackass in the end. You just can't let the stupid get to you man. You have to let it roll off your back. Like water off a duck.

[skyhawka4m]

You claim it is HOW opinions are expressed but it is pretty clear to me that if anyone says ANYTHING even remotely negative about a developer you fly off the handle. You only seem concerned with YOUR opinion, the opinion of others seems to not matter and people who do not agree with you have to put up with your attacks. You did it more than once in the other thread and here you are in this thread kicking the guy when he is down. How about you grow up and get over yourself and understand that the world doesn't revolve around you and your opinions. That sometimes in life people are going to see things differently from you and developers are not demigods. They are normal people, they do not need bodyguards or fanboys that they can make mistakes or have people disagree with them and it is OK, the world is not going to end.

You flew off the handle in that other thread because people pointed out an issue about cost. Some people were not tactless. Some people were not rude. However that did not stop you from being tactless and rude to them. It did not stop you from dressing them down and jumping on your soap box did it? So it is pretty obvious to me your issue has nothing to do with tact. You just don't like the idea that someone said something negative about a product you just bought. Well get over it. This is the internet. This is a message board. People are going to express their opinions.

To the OP, don't let ignorant knuckle heads run you off. If you feel a certain way about something then express yourself. If someone is going to be a jerk and jump up on a soap box calling you names just ignore them. They will be the ones who end up looking like the jackass in the end. You just can't let the stupid get to you man. You have to let it roll off your back. Like water off a duck.


Wow.....thank you Blue. Also thank you to the gents who said the good things. I guess what some people don't realize is there is more to life than this thing we call a hobby.

Blue you mentioned about how Mud made comments in the other thread and once again here. I'll be straight and say that those are the comments I was referring to. I think if Mud only knew that #1: I was expressing my concern and opinion about the subject and not trying to "attack" them, and maybe had he read that I bought both products, as a matter of factly I have and own ALL the products that Vertigo has put out and love all of them. #2: In this thing I call real life I've been dealing with the 3rd anniversery of my fathers death this week. I've been down and frankly have been having some tough times and frankly I don't need people who don't even know a damn thing about me attacking me or my opinion.

I know Mud will come back and attack me and you now Blue...but thats ok...cause Mud don't know me and frankly I don't give two rips what anyone says about me, my opinions or my concerns, or my ideas, when I'm not going through stuff like I have been. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I served 12 years defending what I beleive in and I'll continue to exercise that right. If people like Mud want to go on the attack let them cause like you said its water off my back like a duck. Finally if developers can't take honest opinions, if they can't learn to defend their plans or ideas, if they aren't willing to take critique, if they are willing to say they made a mistake......then maybe they do need to take their ball home. Frankly, I could care less if developers didn't say anything about new stuff until it was out because then they would see how much we, the folks on these boards, mean to them and their products. I can honestly say that I won't buy a prodcut unless I know how it is anymore. I want to know the complexity and not have it hidden until after I buy it and can't fly it for more than 5 minutes. I could care less if the real plane does that.....last time I checked, FSX is a friggin game. I've invested more in my sims over the last few years than I can only imagine.....but thats ok because I do enjoy it...but frankly...the fun is going away with the complexity that some are striving for.

To any developer who might be reading this......thank you for all you do, but please...don't be spineless when it comes to critique. Be ready to take the hits, be ready to take the slams, but also be ready to defend. don't run away.....it makes you look.....I don't know......just don't, it looks bad.



Thank you Blue! and everyone else for your kind words. Mud.....not sure what to say but....:salute:

[MudMarine]

You claim it is HOW opinions are expressed but it is pretty clear to me that if anyone says ANYTHING even remotely negative about a developer you fly off the handle. You only seem concerned with YOUR opinion, the opinion of others seems to not matter and people who do not agree with you have to put up with your attacks. You did it more than once in the other thread and here you are in this thread kicking the guy when he is down. How about you grow up and get over yourself and understand that the world doesn't revolve around you and your opinions. That sometimes in life people are going to see things differently from you and developers are not demigods. They are normal people, they do not need bodyguards or fanboys that they can make mistakes or have people disagree with them and it is OK, the world is not going to end.

You flew off the handle in that other thread because people pointed out an issue about cost. Some people were not tactless. Some people were not rude. However that did not stop you from being tactless and rude to them. It did not stop you from dressing them down and jumping on your soap box did it? So it is pretty obvious to me your issue has nothing to do with tact. You just don't like the idea that someone said something negative about a product you just bought. Well get over it. This is the internet. This is a message board. People are going to express their opinions.

To the OP, don't let ignorant knuckle heads run you off. If you feel a certain way about something then express yourself. If someone is going to be a jerk and jump up on a soap box calling you names just ignore them. They will be the ones who end up looking like the jackass in the end. You just can't let the stupid get to you man. You have to let it roll off your back. Like water off a duck.

Grow up? Fanboy? You don't even come close to getting it or seeing the WHOLE lengthy picture; only your little world that proves your point. At least I never lowered myself to personal attacks like you have. Your Assumptions couldn't be further from the truth. My "opinion" was directed at no one in general, certainly not you. Insulting people over the internet is cowardly. Do youself and this community (I guess that I've wrongly held to a higher standard?) a favor and walk away with some dignity, like a man!

[MudMarine]

Time to lock this thread please! Nothing is being proven or betters our community here.

[skyblazer3]

Perhaps we should roll our words into a ball that shows our one heart and our one mind. We all love flying, and we all struggle with the limits of this simulator. I would hope that our commonalities would win out over the different perspectives we have on any economic or simulator issues. Let's not attack developers, let's not attack users, and let's not attack pirates. Let's just use SOH to share our knowledge and feelings about flight, aircraft, and this simulator. Let's roll our words into a beautiful ball, with one heart and one mind.

Chris:salute:

[Blue]

Do youself and this community (I guess that I've wrongly held to a higher standard?) a favor and walk away with some dignity, like a man!

If you are a Marine, act like one and stop trying to bully people around on here. Calling people cowards, twits, ect. You are the problem guy. You are the one that needs to do this community a favor. I am not saying walk away I am not even arrogant enough to ask such a thing let alone demand it such as you have. What I will ask though is that you grow up and knock off this holier than thou act. You are not a moderator you are not an admin. You do not get to dictate what people on this board say. The sooner you understand that I think the sooner things will start to run smoother. Somewhere down the line, somehow you got your wires crossed and you got it in your head that you run something around here and you get to talk down to people. This is an internet message board for a hobby. This is not life or death or real life. You need to gear it down and relax. Simple as that.

[skyblazer3]

.... So much for one heart and one mind :gameoff:

[bruce448]

I am going to double post this in 2 threads only, The reason is personal why the textures I made for the Vertigo Bearcat went on sale as an add-on pack.

Currently after working full time now for nearly 28 years, I have had to made myself redundant, so that I can look after my 3 year old disabled daughter who suffers from Ceribal Palsy and mild Autism whilst my partner is in hospital for the next 4 months but to top it off the story doesn't end there my partner and I had a baby son born 5 days ago 7 weeks premature.

Dean at Vertigo offered me a viable way of bringing in some form of income to pay the bills and put food on the table.

I am not writing this for charity or sympathy but just to bring to light the private and personal circumstances behind the decision.

So maybe all the bickering and mud slinging will cease.

Bruce

[Sascha66]

I think there are more ignorant tactless twits around here than "bad" developers that you seem upset with! Don't like it, don't buy it. I'm getting pretty SICK of the "expressed" opinions around here!! If you can do better, do it yourself. The level of character around here the past few years has dropped!! It's about HOW opinions are expressed, not expressing them in the first place.

YOu are not raising the standard here mate...

[Sascha66]

I am going to double post this in 2 threads only, The reason is personal why the textures I made for the Vertigo Bearcat went on sale as an add-on pack.

Currently after working full time now for nearly 28 years, I have had to made myself redundant, so that I can look after my 3 year old disabled daughter who suffers from Ceribal Palsy and mild Autism whilst my partner is in hospital for the next 4 months but to top it off the story doesn't end there my partner and I had a baby son born 5 days ago 7 weeks premature.

Dean at Vertigo offered me a viable way of bringing in some form of income to pay the bills and put food on the table.

I am not writing this for charity or sympathy but just to bring to light the private and personal circumstances behind the decision.

So maybe all the bickering and mud slinging will cease.

Bruce

Thank you! I wish you and your family the best for the future - I'm glad you have your priorities sorted out!

[skyhawka4m]

I am going to double post this in 2 threads only, The reason is personal why the textures I made for the Vertigo Bearcat went on sale as an add-on pack.

Currently after working full time now for nearly 28 years, I have had to made myself redundant, so that I can look after my 3 year old disabled daughter who suffers from Ceribal Palsy and mild Autism whilst my partner is in hospital for the next 4 months but to top it off the story doesn't end there my partner and I had a baby son born 5 days ago 7 weeks premature.

Dean at Vertigo offered me a viable way of bringing in some form of income to pay the bills and put food on the table.

I am not writing this for charity or sympathy but just to bring to light the private and personal circumstances behind the decision.

So maybe all the bickering and mud slinging will cease.

Bruce


Bruce...while I wass not in total agreement with this plan...I paid for the paints and I hold your work very high. so I feel no hard feelings toward you or Vertigo. I am however saddened by vertigo's choice of running away from this. I guess they have to do things the way they wish to do them, but thats ok because I'll continue to buy form them.

[skyhawka4m]

Also, my final post on this issue.....to the sender of the PM....

No I'm not going to walk away just because you think I should. I'm here to stay.

[bruce448]

Bruce...while I wass not in total agreement with this plan...I paid for the paints and I hold your work very high. so I feel no hard feelings toward you or Vertigo. I am however saddened by vertigo's choice of running away from this. I guess they have to do things the way they wish to do them, but thats ok because I'll continue to buy form them.

Skyhawka4m, at the end of the day it was NOT Deans decision not to explain to you or anyone else what was happening in my private life or the reasons behind putting the textures as a seperate package, at the end of the day private should be private, and the decision to post earlier in this thread was not an easy one, and Deans feelings at the moment about having being forced into explaining the reasons would have lead to corporate suicide.

[huub vink]

I haven't been part of anything which caused this thread and I am not planning in getting involved either. But why does somebody need a thread to announce his departure and keeps this thread going for days.

When you want to stay, fine with me, just stay. When you don't want to stay, fine with me as well! Just don't log in anymore! But make up your mind!

One small word of advise; whatever you do, solve your problems with the person you have these problems with and not make it bigger by making it a public event!

When you want to create drama, take an example and leave like the former French president Giscard d'Destaing. Even he needed only 12 seconds!

B9PjBgWOkng

Huub

Bruce, I wish you a lot of strength for the next period. It sounds like you have quite some challenges for the near future.

[txnetcop]

This bantering back and forth stops now or you know what happens next. Let's turn this thing around and make it a positive. Frankly we are getting tired of having to close threads.

Skyhawk if you need some time away-DO IT! If not and you can tolerate some of the conflicts then stick around...things eventually work themselves out. Blue remove yourself from the argument please and let Skyhawk and MudMarine work it out by PM! Gentlemen use your PMs to argue this. I sure hate to call in a moderator or an admin to start a disciplinary process we are grown men with a common interest. Let's go back to doing just that.
Ted

[PRB]

Since this one is getting personal, I am closing it.