Grumman Cat

[Terry]

Found this little Grumman over at Flightsim this morning. Havent loaded it yet but it looks promising.

FS2004 (ACOF) - FS2004 General Aviation FS2004 Grumman AA1-C T Cat
[ Download (http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=149987) | View (http://www.flightsim.com/zview.php?cm=list&fid=149987) ]
Name: aa1ctcat.zip (http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=149987) Size: 4,053,004 Date: 09-16-2010
http://www.flightsim.com/p/aa1ctcat.gif http://www.flightsim.com/wbicons/fcq1.gif http://www.flightsim.com/wbicons/fbq1.gif FS2004 Grumman AA1-C T Cat. A two seat single engine 115 hp fixed gear aircraft. This model is based on ZK-FVR. Owned and operated by the Auckland Aero Club based at Ardmore. 2D panel and custom gauges by Pierre Fasseaux, model by Ron Watson.

[OBIO]

I installed the Grumman AAC-1 package...very nice plane. There was an issue with the texture not showing on the pilot. I opened all the texture files with DXTbmp and resaved them to Extended 888 32-bit format. Fired the sim back up and the pilot was textured....not sure if it was a format issue or simply a bit of lag in my system. If you install the package and your pilot is untextured, then use DXtbmp to resave the texture files in a different format.

Took the plane up for a spin and crashed it before I even got it off the ground fully....hit a bit bump and broke the landing gear. That's what happens when you leave the grass runway on a private airstrip....thost darn ground hog holes will get you every time.

OBIO

Oh...took a look at the texture mapping...this will be an easy plane to paint.

[phantomx1]

Delightful little booger, and very nicely modeled. Used to fly one of those.

[Drzook]

Nicely modeled plane and all but mine shakes like a paint mixer when the engine's running and taxiing on the ground. Once it gets in the air it flies all right but on what I thought was a greaser landing the rear gear broke--might be set as too fragile; unfortunately I have no idea how to 'beef up' the gear or to cure the shakes.:banghead:

[OBIO]

I pulled the AA-1C into ACM and beefed up the gear a bit. The plane can now land without the gear failing...it takes a really hard touch down to buckle the gear. I also relocated the scrape points....the fuselage scrape point was way down by the front wheel. Just copy and paste the following contact point info into your aircraft.cfg file (make a back up of the original file first).

[contact_points]
static_pitch = 3
static_cg_height = 4
tailwheel_lock = 0
gear_system_type = 4
max_number_of_points = 7

point.0 = 1, 4.488, 0, -4.115, 2500, 0, 0.568, 40, 0.1, 2.9, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
point.1 = 1, -0.5, -4.409, -3.914, 2500, 1, 0.671, 0, 0.118, 1.585, 0.7, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0
point.2 = 1, -0.5, 4.409, -3.914, 2500, 2, 0.671, 0, 0.118, 1.585, 0.7, 0, 0, 3, 0, 0
point.3 = 2, 0, -12.7509, -0.4072, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 0, 0
point.4 = 2, 0, 12.7503, -0.406, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6, 0, 0
point.5 = 2, 3.0098, 0, -1.9811, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0
point.6 = 2, -13.3454, 0, -0.1542, 1800, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 9, 0, 0

OBIO

[SADT]

OBIO - Does she have a VC, if so, do you think you could post some screenshots please?

I have been waiting for one of these for FS for ages!

[thunder100]

Yes it has VC and Obio if time permits a FSX glass would be highly appreciated

Roland

[normb]

Great little airplane, lands better with OBIO'a mods. A keeper!

I first thought it was a repaint of Piglets AA-1. He did great AA-1 and AA-5 birds. (And a great...on and on....)

Both renditions fly similar to what I remember of the real on (non-virtual?)

[Drzook]

Thanks for beefing up the gear OBIO; at least I don't break the gear when I look at it wrong.
It's still doing the shaking however when moving on the ground and if I don't stop every so often even the beefed up gear fails at some point. I'm thinking it's a contact point issue of some sort; I tried a couple other planes there as well and they worked without incident. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

[Milton Shupe]

This is a nice little aircraft. Ron Watson flies this one (and others) in the RW. I commend him on his first project, a nice "light weight poly" design, efficient mapping and use of textures, and a very nice flight model that he tuned to match the RW aircraft.

I have been testing this package for over a month, never had a the gear break in any venue (but I do not have the shaking problem). The contact points carry the same limits as the C182 so any acceptable touchdown in that would work here. This aircraft FM allows for silky smooth landings.

As to the "dancing", Ron also complained of this issue but I have never experienced it. We looked at gear in gmax, the contact points, the FM etc., and could not find a source for it. However, one thing comes to mind just now that you can try to see if it helps. Since I do not experience it, I cannot test it.

In the aircraft.cfg, Weight and Balance section, change the station load to center the pilot's weight (or add weight for a co-pilot). Since this is such a light aircraft, that may be impacting things. Let me know please.



station_load.0= 166, 0.0, -0.533, 0.000

[Terry]

The only problem I have is worrying about that loose hatchet behind the left seat. Hate to have that embedded in my head.

[Drzook]

I tried the new station load positioning but there was no change in the ground manners. It must be noted that once in the air it is smooth as silk; only when it is on the ground does it do any sort of shaking. A F Scrub's Mohawk does the same thing; he had come out with an updated version recently that supposedly cured the shakes although mine did but to a lesser extent than the original. I'm thinking a comparison of that plane's aircraft.cfg files are in order, will see what changes were made then apply to this bird--will try that tonite; I have to go to work right now however.:banghead:

[Ian Warren]

A post i put up at www.nzff.org , i,m yet to check it out , having one of those bad hair week /months , Ron's Scenery is superb and well placed in the Auckland 'Manukau' City region and a pleasure to complement with http://www.windowlight.co.nz/ scenery

Our talented Auckland 'Manukau' City scenery design adding many custom buildings is now dabbling in light aircraft , Id get to Flightsim.com , put Ron,s name in the search engine and enjoy his works for both FS9 and Scenery FSX .

Ron :salute:

[Z-claudius24]

Hi,

Nice plane.
It's the cousin of the Grumman AA-5B from Piglet(Tim Conrad) :) (I use it also .. very good as usual)
BTW OBIO is right about the pilot texture ! (not mapped)
I used immediately the OBIO tweak for the contact points .. all good and no paint mixer on the ground LOL

Edit:
Anyways .. the texture need a rework by a brush master :)
It's some blurr on it ....

http://i52.tinypic.com/2wqs8bp.jpg

[OBIO]

I am attaching the pilot texture...saved in Extended 888 32 bit format...this got the pilot texture to work for me.

I have the fuselage template done...will do the wing template...then will do a few paints for this bird.

OBIO

[Milton Shupe]

Hi,
.... snipped ...

I used immediately the OBIO tweak for the contact points .. all good and no paint mixer on the ground LOL

...snipped ...




Ah! That is great to hear. Thanks OBIO :)

[txnetcop]

Thanks guys she flies like a dream!!!

[SADT]

Hi Guys,

Does the VC work in FSX? Or does it need a glass fix? If this is so, would somebody be able to do this?

[Milton Shupe]

Hi Guys,

Does the VC work in FSX? Or does it need a glass fix? If this is so, would somebody be able to do this?

The VC animation works; the canopy glass needs the alpha changed to around 30,30,30 to look as shown; the prop can be swapped to correct the front side, however, the rear side as from the cockpit stays opaque.

[phantomx1]

My father once owen an Grumman American trainer, AA1A. I flew it a fair bit. The plane was a bit more sensitive on the flight controls due to it's short coupled fuselage. It was especially very sensitive on rudder. Also added a wee bit more needed power.

By the way, if memory serves me correctly, the original designer of the AA1A was Jim Bede. The plane was stout and had a large tubular aluminum spar that also doubled as the fuel tank. I saw my father loop his. The little plane was very nimble and had a very good cruise, but on a hot summer day you had to be careful getting out of a 2600 ft grass runway with 2 adults on board.

Here are the tweeks I made if you care to give it a try. Simply make a copy of the Aircraft cfg and then cut everything in it and copy and paste the entire contents below into the new copy.

Before anything, rename the original cfg file to something other than "Aircraft" then name the new test copy "Aircraft". If you don't like it simply delete the test copy and rename the original cfg back to 'Aircraft' and you will be back to where you were.

Copy and paste entire contents: Don't worry about the (\\) backed out areas as they are what the original numbers were. You can use them as reference to the changes I made.

[fltsim.0]
title=AA-1C
sim=AA-1C
model=
panel=
sound=
texture=
panel_alias =
sound_alias =
kb_checklists=
kb_reference=
atc_id= FVR
atc_id_color=0x00000000
atc_parking_code =
atc_airline=
atc_flight_number=
ui_manufacturer=Grumman American
ui_type=AA-1C
ui_variation=Trainer
description=First introduced in 1974, the AA-1C series were unique in their bonded honeycomb airframes, producing a simple, smooth, and strong structure. With a sliding canopy. The AA1-1C was built primarily as a trainer.
visual_damage=1
atc_heavy=0
atc_id_font=Verdana,-11,1,600,0
[General]
atc_type=Grumman
atc_model=AA-1C
performance=+ Empty Weight: 1141 lbs + Max Power: 115 Hp + Maneuver speed: 117 kts @ 4.0 g + Max speed: 126 kts @ 8000 ft + Max speed at sea-level: 126 kts + Climb rate: 700 ft/min @ 80 kts Flight Dynamics by Ron Watson.
editable=1
prop_anim_ratio = 1
Category=airplane
[pitot_static]
vertical_speed_time_constant = 2
pitot_heat=1.000000
[weight_and_balance]
// ACM V2.5
max_gross_weight =1600.0
empty_weight =1141.00000
reference_datum_position = 0, 0, 0
empty_weight_CG_position = 2.000, 0.000, 0.000 \\0.000 (file://\\0.000), 0.000, 0.000
empty_weight_pitch_MOI =400.00000 \\681.78000 (file://\\681.78000)
empty_weight_roll_MOI =381.35000
empty_weight_yaw_MOI =950.00000 \\828.00000 (file://\\828.00000)
empty_weight_coupled_MOI =0.00000
CG_forward_limit = 1 \\0 (file://\\0)
CG_aft_limit = 1
max_number_of_stations =1
station_load.0= 166, -0.144, -0.533, 0.000

[lights]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing
light.0 =3, 1.380000, -12.290000, -0.380000, fx_navred
light.1 =3, 1.380000, 12.290000, -0.380000, fx_navgre
light.2 =1, -11.260000, 0.000000, 4.600000, fx_beacon
light.3 =2, 1.300000, -12.320000, -0.300000, fx_strobe
light.4 =2, 1.300000, 12.320000, -0.300000, fx_strobe
light.5 =3, -13.250000, 0.000000, -0.160000, fx_navwhi
light.6 =4, -0.480000, 0.000000, 0.330000, fx_vclight

[GeneralEngineData]
//0=Piston, 1=Jet, 2=None, 3=Helo-Turbine, 4=Rocket, 5=Turboprop
engine_type =0
fuel_flow_scalar =1.00000
min_throttle_limit =0.00000
engine.0 =6.046, 0.000, 0.000
[effects]
wake = fx_wake
water = fx_spray
dirt = fx_tchdrt
concrete = fx_sparks
touchdown = fx_tchdwn_s, 1
windshield_rain_effect_available = 1
[fuel]
//Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)
fuel_type =1
number_of_tank_selectors =1
electric_pump =1
LeftMain = 0.200, -4.340, -1.500, 11.000, 0.000
RightMain = 0.200, 4.340, -1.500, 11.000, 0.000
fuel_dump_rate=0.02000
anemometer_pump=0
manual_pump=0
engine_driven_pump=0

[contact_points]
static_pitch = 3.000
static_cg_height = 4.000
tailwheel_lock =0
gear_system_type =4
max_number_of_points =7
point.0= 1, 4.488, 0.000, -4.115, 1800, 0, 0.568, 40.000, 0.100, 2.900, 1.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0
point.1= 1, -0.500, -4.409, -3.914, 1800, 1, 0.671, 0.000, 0.118, 1.585, 0.700, 0.000, 0.000, 2
point.2= 1, -0.500, 4.409, -3.914, 1800, 2, 0.671, 0.000, 0.118, 1.585, 0.700, 0.000, 0.000, 3
point.3= 2, 0.000, -15.627, -0.276, 1800, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 5
point.4= 2, 0.000, 15.627, -0.276, 1800, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 6
point.5= 2, 3.550, 0.000, -3.070, 1800, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4
point.6= 2, -13.361, 0.000, -0.418, 1800, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 9

[keyboard_response]
elevator = 350, 500
aileron = 450, 1000
rudder = 200, 1000

[forcefeedback]
gear_bump_nose_magnitude =6000
gear_bump_nose_direction =18000
gear_bump_nose_duration =250000
gear_bump_left_magnitude =6000
gear_bump_left_direction =35500
gear_bump_left_duration =250000
gear_bump_right_magnitude =6000
gear_bump_right_direction =500
gear_bump_right_duration =250000
ground_bumps_magnitude1 =3250
ground_bumps_angle1 =8900
ground_bumps_intercept1 =5
ground_bumps_slope1 =0.48
ground_bumps_magnitude2 =750
ground_bumps_angle2 =9100
ground_bumps_intercept2 =0.075
ground_bumps_slope2 =1
crash_magnitude1 =10000
crash_direction1 =1000
crash_magnitude2 =10000
crash_direction2 =9000
crash_period2 =75000
crash_duration2 =2500000
stick_shaker_magnitude=5000
stick_shaker_direction=0
stick_shaker_period=111111
[airplane_geometry]
wing_area =108.60000
wing_span =25.00000
wing_root_chord =6.47000
wing_dihedral =5.00000
wing_incidence =0.00000
wing_twist =0.00000
oswald_efficiency_factor =0.84900
wing_winglets_flag =0
wing_sweep =0.00000
wing_pos_apex_lon =1.00000 \\1.20000 (file://\\1.20000)
wing_pos_apex_vert =-1.38000
htail_area =16.52000
htail_span =8.84000
htail_pos_lon =-11.27000
htail_pos_vert =0.18000
htail_incidence =0.00000
htail_sweep =0.00000
vtail_area =9.00000 \\6.24000 (file://\\6.24000)
vtail_span =3.56000
vtail_sweep =0.00000
vtail_pos_lon =-11.47000
vtail_pos_vert =4.18000
elevator_area =9.00000 \\5.83000 (file://\\5.83000)
aileron_area =8.00000 \\6.08000 (file://\\6.08000)
rudder_area =11.50000 \\3.97000 (file://\\3.97000)
elevator_up_limit =25.00000
elevator_down_limit =35.00000
aileron_up_limit =20.00000
aileron_down_limit =20.00000
rudder_limit =30.00000
elevator_trim_limit =30.00000 \\20.00000 (file://\\20.00000)
spoiler_limit =0.00000
aileron_to_spoileron_gain =0.00000
spoiler_handle_available =0
min_ailerons_for_spoilerons =0.00000
min_flaps_for_spoilerons =0.00000
spoilerons_available =0
spoiler_extension_time=0.00000
auto_spoiler_available=0
positive_g_limit_flaps_up=4.00000
negative_g_limit_flaps_up=-3.20000
positive_g_limit_flaps_down=2.80000
negative_g_limit_flaps_down=-2.40000
load_safety_factor=1.00000
[electrical]
max_battery_voltage = 24
generator_alternator_voltage = 28
max_generator_alternator_amps = 160
engine_generator_map = 1
electric_always_available = 0
flap_motor = 0, 5, 17
gear_motor = 0, 5, 17
autopilot = 0, 5, 17
avionics_bus = 0, 10, 17
avionics = 1, 5, 17
pitot_heat = 0, 2, 17
additional_system = 0, 20, 17
marker_beacon = 1, 2, 17
gear_warning = 0, 2, 17
fuel_pump = 0, 5, 17
starter1 = 0, 20, 17
starter2 = 0, 20, 17
starter3 = 0, 20, 17
starter4 = 0, 20, 17
light_nav = 0, 5, 17
light_beacon = 0, 5, 17
light_landing = 0, 5, 17
light_taxi = 0, 5, 17
light_strobe = 0, 5, 17
light_panel = 0, 5, 17
prop_sync = 0, 15, 17
auto_feather = 0, 15, 17
auto_brakes = 0, 15, 17
standby_vacuum = 0, 15, 17
hydraulic_pump = 0, 2, 17
fuel_transfer_pump = 0, 5, 17
propeller_deice = 0, 5, 17
light_recognition = 0, 5, 17
light_wing = 0, 5, 17
light_logo = 0, 5, 17
[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar=1.20000 \\1.00000 (file://\\1.00000)
parasite_drag_scalar=1.10000 \\1.00000 (file://\\1.00000)
induced_drag_scalar=1.00000
elevator_effectiveness=2.00000 \\1.00000 (file://\\1.00000)
aileron_effectiveness=1.80000 \\1.00000 (file://\\1.00000)
rudder_effectiveness=5.00000 \\1.00000 (file://\\1.00000)
pitch_stability=1.00000
roll_stability=1.00000
yaw_stability=1.00000
elevator_trim_effectiveness=2.00000 \\1.00000 (file://\\1.00000)
aileron_trim_effectiveness=1.00000
rudder_trim_effectiveness=1.00000
hi_alpha_on_roll =1.00000
hi_alpha_on_yaw =1.00000
p_factor_on_yaw =1.00000
torque_on_roll =0.55000
gyro_precession_on_roll =1.00000
gyro_precession_on_yaw =0.00000
[piston_engine]
power_scalar=1.00000 \\1.00000 (file://\\1.00000)
cylinder_displacement=58.75000
compression_ratio=8.50000 \\6.75000 (file://\\6.75000)
number_of_cylinders=4
max_rated_rpm=2800.00000
max_rated_hp=115.00000
fuel_metering_type=1
cooling_type=0
normalized_starter_torque=0.33042
turbocharged=0
max_design_mp=29.92000
min_design_mp=9.00000
critical_altitude=0.00000
emergency_boost_type=0
emergency_boost_mp_offset=0.00000
emergency_boost_gain_offset=0.00000
fuel_air_auto_mixture=0
auto_ignition=0
emergency_boost_duration=0.00000
max_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.10000 \\1.00000 (file://\\1.00000)
idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.00000
max_rpm_friction_scalar=1.00000
idle_rpm_friction_scalar=1.00000
BestPowerSpecificFuelConsumption=0.50000
detonation_onset=32.91000
[propeller]
thrust_scalar=1.10000 \\1.00000 (file://\\1.00000)
propeller_type=1
propeller_diameter=6.00000
propeller_blades=2
propeller_moi=3.86478
beta_max=53.00000
beta_min=51.00000
min_gov_rpm=320.00000 \\420.00000 (file://\\420.00000)
prop_tc=0.01000
gear_reduction_ratio=1.00000
fixed_pitch_beta=52.00000
low_speed_theory_limit=77.91534
prop_sync_available=0
prop_deice_available=1
prop_feathering_available=0
prop_auto_feathering_available=0
min_rpm_for_feather=700.00000
beta_feather=88.50000
power_absorbed_cf=1.00000 \\0.90000 (file://\\0.90000)
defeathering_accumulators_available=0
prop_reverse_available=0
minimum_on_ground_beta=1.00000
minimum_reverse_beta=-14.00000
rotation = 1
[Views]
eyepoint=-0.024, -0.233, 1.710 \\0.144 (file://\\0.144), -0.533, 1.710
[flaps.0] //Trailing Edge Flaps
type= 1
system_type=0
span-outboard= 0.500
extending-time= 5.0
damaging-speed=100.0
blowout-speed=120.0
flaps-position.0=0.00
flaps-position.1=15.00
flaps-position.2=30.00
flaps-position.3=45.00
lift_scalar=1.20 \\1.00 (file://\\1.00)
drag_scalar=1.20 \\1.00 (file://\\1.00)
pitch_scalar=1.10 \\1.00 (file://\\1.00)
[Radios] // availiable, standby frequency, has glide slope
Audio.1=1
Com.1=1, 1
Com.2=1, 1
Nav.1=1, 1, 1
Nav.2=1, 0, 0
Adf.1=1
Transponder.1=1
Marker.1=1
[direction_indicators]
direction_indicator.0=1, 0
[exits]
number_of_exits = 1
exit_rate.0 = 0.8
exit_rate.1 = 0.8

[Reference Speeds]
flaps_up_stall_speed=48.74956
full_flaps_stall_speed=46.05574
cruise_speed=117.00000
max_indicated_speed =117.00000
max_mach =0.19000
[gear_warning_system]
gear_warning_available =1
pct_throttle_limit =0.10000
flap_limit_idle =33.75000
flap_limit_power =16.87500
[brakes]
toe_brakes_scale =0.75000
parking_brake =1
auto_brakes=0
hydraulic_system_scalar=0.00000
differential_braking_scale=0.69000
[stall_warning] // 0 = None, 1 = Suction, 2 = Electric.
type = 1
stick_shaker=1
[hydraulic_system]
electric_pumps = 0
engine_map = 1, 0, 0, 0
normal_pressure =1000.00000
[attitude_indicators] // 0=None, 1=Vacuum Gyro, 2=Electric Gyro
attitude_indicator.0 = 1
[turn_indicators] // 0=None, 1=Electric Gyro, 2=Vacuum Gyro
turn_indicator.0 = 1, 0
[direction_indicators] // 0=None, 1=Vac Gyro, 2=Elec Gyro, 3=EM Slave Compass, 4=Slave to other ind
direction_indicator.0=1, 0
[airspeed_indicators]
airspeed_indicator.0 = 1, 0
[vacuum_system]
max_pressure=5.150000
vacuum_type=1
electric_backup_pressure=4.900000
engine_map=1,0,0,0
[pneumatic_system]
max_pressure=18.000000
bleed_air_scalar=0.150000
[deice_system]
structural_deice_type=2
[smokesystem]
smoke.0=0
[AirWrench]
Aircraft_Length=19.30000
Vmax_sl=144.99815
Vmax_ca=144.99815
V_rc=74.80064
Climb_Rate=700.00000
Climb_Weight=1600.00000
Max_gforce=4.00000
Emergency_hp=115.00000
nose_position_lon=6.33000
ActualIncidence=1.00000
ActualTwist=0.00000
ActualTailIncidence=0.00000
Aircraft_Type=2
FlowCorrection=1.00000
JetAltitude=0.00000
turboprop_critical_altitude=0.00000
target_roll_Vopt=336.71794
target_roll_rate=63.50000
pitch_damping=3.00000 \\5.00000 (file://\\5.00000)
yaw_damping=3.00000 \\5.00000 (file://\\5.00000)
elevator_scalar=1.00000
rudder_scalar=1.00000
dihedral_scalar=1.25000
Elevator_FF=54.00000
Aileron_FF=-50.00000
Roll_Response=10.00000
Adverse_Yaw=125.00000
Control_Response=51.00000
V_Max_Control=149.60127
V_Zero_Control=299.20254
Spin_Stability=90.00000 \\100.00000 (file://\\100.00000)
Stall_Stability=95.00000 \\100.00000 (file://\\100.00000)
Elevator_Propwash=1.00000
Rudder_Propwash=1.00000
spoiler_time=0.00000
afterburner_thrust=0.00000
mach_scale=1.00000
spoiler_type=0
spoiler_cd=0.00000
spoiler_cl=0.00000
spoiler_cm=0.00000
flaps_type=1
flaps_cd_scalar=0.21100
flaps_cm_scalar=-0.38000
vfe_enabled=0
gear_cd_scalar=0.00000
gear_cm_scalar=0.00000
cylinder_head_temperature=501.00000
exhaust_gas_temperature=1201.00000
fuel_pressure=20.00000
oil_pressure=60.00000
oil_temperature=241.00000
radiator_temperature=211.00000
exhaust_pressure_ratio=0.00000
interstage_turbine_temperature=-459.00000
knots_flag=0
cfs1_flag=0
laminar_flow=0
fixed_wing_pos=1
AirWrenchVersion=1.01.88
cfs2_ai_flag=0
fs8_flag=1
direct_edit_mach=0
V_si=65.59440
V_so=60.99129
VSI_Weight=1600.00000
static_margin=0.06000
ReheatCutoff=1.20000
OptimumMach=0.90000
Power_Calibration=1.00000
IdleRPM=675.00000
piston_research=0.00000
Max_Prop_Eff=1.20000 \\0.99300 (file://\\0.99300)
zero_roll_mph=875.39759
roll_damping=3.50000 \\5.00000 (file://\\5.00000)
weathervane=1.00000
aileron_scalar=0.60000
sideslip_scalar=1.00000
prop_yaw_damping_scalar=1.00000
V_Max_RdrControl=201.40000
V_Zero_RdrControl=221.54000
Roll_Off=0.00000
glide_ratio=7.90000 \\8.95521 (file://\\8.95521)
vn_gmax=4.00000
vn_vmo=201.38633
expert_mode=0
CritAoA=16.00000
ClAoA_k0=1.00000
ClAoA_k1=1.00000
ClAoA_k2=0.85000
ClAoA_k3=0.80000
cruise_attitude=0.00000
prop_design_altitude=0.00000
prop_material_type=1
protect_airfile=0
auto_flaps_enabled=0
critical_mach_number=0.80000
max_mach_cd0=60
lo_rpm_friction=1.00000
hi_rpm_friction=1.00000
RAM_Jet_Effect=1.00000
Emulate_Turbojet=0
N2_idle=66.00000
jet_idle_scalar=1.00000
input_units=1
fs_version=5
AI_flag=0
edit_tp_torque=0
keep_jet_air_defs=0
direct_edit_2dtab=0
range_est_alt=0.00000
range_est_rpm=2700.00000
range_est_mp=29.92000
range_est_fuel=44.00000
contact_light_flags=0
[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=0
default_vertical_speed=700
autothrottle_available=0
pitch_takeoff_ga=8
max_pitch=10
max_pitch_acceleration=1
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.5
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000
max_bank=25
max_bank_acceleration=1.8
max_bank_velocity=3
max_throttle_rate=0.1
nav_proportional_control=9
nav_integrator_control=0.25
nav_derivative_control=0
nav_integrator_boundary=2.5
nav_derivative_boundary=0
gs_proportional_control=9.52
gs_integrator_control=0.26
gs_derivative_control=0
gs_integrator_boundary=0.7
gs_derivative_boundary=0
yaw_damper_gain=0
default_pitch_mode=0
default_bank_mode=0
autothrottle_arming_required=0
autothrottle_takeoff_ga=1
autothrottle_max_rpm=90
use_no_default_bank=1
use_no_default_pitch=1
[GPWS]
max_warning_height=0
sink_rate_fpm=-1500
excessive_sink_rate_fpm=-2000
climbout_sink_rate_fpm=-100
flap_and_gear_sink_rate_fpm=-100

[Milton Shupe]

Some of the changes you made I like (in the air), however, when the aircraft loads for me, it bounces once and crashes. I see no difference in the class 1 contact points but I do in the class 2 points.

I did change the static height to -3.8 which resolves that issue.

With the geometry and reference changes you made, the center of gravity now sits in front of the wing at -12% of MAC making the nose heavy and the suspension harsh (too much weight on the nose gear, less on the mains). This causes smoking bouncy tires during rollout and over steering.

Changing the wing_pos_apex_lon =2.76000 corrects the CoG to 25% MAC but the suspension is still harsh and bouncy. This may be a result of moving the CoG reference forward 2' but not adjusting engine location, or the lighter MOIs.

Overall, unless you can resolve these issues, I prefer the original FM over your changes.

[phantomx1]

That is interesting Milton.

All the changes I made were guess work using trial an era without an aircraft cfg configuration utility of any kind. Was all freehanded then go fly, until it felt closer to what I remembered of the handling of the real plane. No dout here that the numbers are way out of bound compared to a configuration utility tool.

I see no smoking bouncing of the tires or the plane with my settings.

I'd also like to note that even with the original downloaded model's aircraft cfg file, I have never seen this model jump around.

This leads me to believe that not every downloaded model behaves exactly the same in every computer. For several years now I have suspected that may be true. I thought it odd in the beginning of this thread that many others were seeing a problematic bouncing plane and I never have.

Thanks for the feedback.

David

[OBIO]

When I first downloaded the AA-1C, it shimmied and danced on the ground. I made some adjustments to the contact points and that went away. Then I found that the landing gear failed even during gentle landings...so some more contact point tweaking seemed to fix that problem.

But....the way this plane behaves on the ground when sitting/taxiing and during landings is not the same at every airport. Now, most of my scenery is stock in terms of airports. Mesh is the freeware Genesis US mesh, Rhumbaflappy's LOD5, 7 and 8 Mesh, and a few other meshes for Hawaii, Greece, etc. At one airport the AA-1C sits nice and sweet, at others the plane wiggles on the ground. At some airports the plane bounces so hard the landing gear fails. At one airport I can slam the plane onto the runway like I am trying to kill it, at another airport the main gear failed during a oh so gentle feather light landing.

In the air, this plane is a dream...but on the ground it is proving to be an unpredictable nightmare.

OBIO

[phantomx1]

Now that you mention that Obio, I had downloaded and installed a mesh for S.C. which may be why my copy of the plane never has bounced or jumped around. Different airport altitudes between default and the downloaded ones I suppose.

Well now that seems to kill the theory I was forming that same downloaded planes behave differently on different computers. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I will try the plane out in another area of the country that has default airport elevations.


Yikes! Went to Charleston WV for some varied airport elevations and it was bouncing all over the place! I still like my flight characteristic settings as per the real plane's flight envelope. I think I will simply add your contact point settings to the cfg I tweeked. That should be sweet enough for me no matter where I fly to. And thanks for the pilot textures OBIO! Love this little trainer.

[Drzook]

Well, I tried the mods so far and all I got for it was a plane that bounces all over the place when in motion on the ground. Even the beefed up landing gear proves to be no match and landings...well let's just say I can usually walk away from them.
However, I found out there is hope. In a fit of desperation I swapped out the aircraft.cfg file with that from the default 172 and pasted the contact points and lights from the original on. The result: no shaking, bouncing, sparking or smoking. Sure it flies like a 172 however at least I was able to find out that it is not the contact points that is giving me all this trouble. Will try to do more research during the day but take heart we will get this bird working yet!!!:jump:

[Drzook]

After replacing the aircraft.cfg file with that of a 172 I got to replacing individual sections in the .cfg file with parts from the original. Normally this would be an excruciatingly time consuming process. However I found the problem in my first try.
...It's all in the MOI's.
under the [Weights and Balances] section you will see this:
[weight_and_balance]
// ACM V2.5
max_gross_weight =1600.0
empty_weight =1141.00000
reference_datum_position = 0, 0, 0
empty_weight_CG_position = 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
empty_weight_pitch_MOI =681.78000
empty_weight_roll_MOI =381.35000
empty_weight_yaw_MOI =828.00000
empty_weight_coupled_MOI =0.00000
CG_forward_limit = 0
CG_aft_limit = 1
max_number_of_stations =1
station_load.0= 166, -0.144, -0.533, 0.000

Replace the above-referenced bold-faced figures with these figures (sourced from Piglet's AA-5A)
empty_weight_pitch_MOI =813.00000
empty_weight_roll_MOI =722.00000
empty_weight_yaw_MOI =1264.00000
empty_weight_coupled_MOI =0.00000

At this point it is a temporary fix--for some reason it 'feels' heavier (I would suppose with good reason seeing as the MOI's were taken from a 4-seater and all). Now I don't have the benefit of actually flying one of these but from what I have read on the internet they were twitchy little guys. I will continue to tweak the MOI's and see how close I can get it to be more twitchy without it doing the dance on the ground.
Hey, it's progress--who knows I might actually get a real flight out of it yet today lol
I would also like to thank OBIO for the revised pilot texture-lookin good:ernae:
Piglet if you are reading this I would also like to thank you for the AA-5:salute:
Thank you Ron Watson for coming up with this plane. It's beautiful.:ernae:

EDIT: I think I got it down to one line that might be causing the bouncing...the roll MOI line is too low. I bumped up the pitch MOI slightly as well and at this point the only time it dances is when I hit the brakes at over 45kts and it isn't much bouncing at all.
//empty_weight_pitch_MOI =681.78000
empty_weight_pitch_MOI =700.00000
//empty_weight_roll_MOI =381.35000
empty_weight_roll_MOI =722.00000
empty_weight_yaw_MOI =828.00000
empty_weight_coupled_MOI =0.00000

I'll probably be seeing just how low I can get that roll MOI line but with it bouncing when I hit the brakes at relatively high speed I'm thinking I'm near the lower limit already.

[phantomx1]

Gonna give your results a try Drzook. It would be nice to get this nice model dialed in right or close to right anyway.

The real plane certainly had a quick and athorative rudder When I flew the RL one rarely did I ever use rudder in turns in cruise flight. However on set up for approach to landing I always placed the feet on the rudder pedals to confirm rudder was still available if the need arised for them on final. You would test the rudder pedals and it quickly you were reminded that they were like quick powered steering. There was too much rudder for it's area size coupled to a short fuselage.

Aileron control seemed pretty much normal but it would roll at a nice rate, a slight bit better than a cherokee or a 150 or 172.

Elevator control and response was as good as the aileron response, a little quicker than what seemed normal. But that rudder seemed like it was magnified in comparison to a cessna 150-172 or cherokee. To me. it made me feel like their were snakes down at them pedals. Using the rudder in cruise you would say "Better keep those feet off them and on the floor. Seemed useless energy to keep the feet on the pedals. Of coarse when it come time to land, instinctively you would ready them for use should you may need it on approach. It was squirrely. Of coarse near stall speed the rudder felt more right with lessened airflow to it.

Will try the 172 cfg and try the new settings on the original cfg. Thanks for the time and effort. This is a very nice little model and cute as all get out.

[phantomx1]

Clearly I have been wrong about several things about this model. I had been calling it an AA1-A Grumman American trainer Clearly I was wrong. May have to scratch out any references I have made about this model. Seems there have been changes made as well as model and corporate names. Sorry bout that!:) Well it looks like an AA1A trainer! Wonder if the manufacterures tweeked down the squirrely rudder on the C's or kept it. They probably did tone it down some.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_American_AA-1

[Z-claudius24]

Hi,

Thank you for all the tweaks.
Flying and taxi perfect :)

Video:

http://simtube.com/video/4229/Grumman-test

[OBIO]

DrZook

YOU FIXED IT!!!! I plopped your MOI tweaks into the AA-1C's aircraft.cfg and she handles wonderfully on the ground. Yes, I did break the landing gear...but only after a series of 6 brutal landing tests....the last landing had the little plane slamming the ground at about 100 knots in a three point flat landing.....she went to bouncing like a frightened cat and the left main gear broke on the tenth or eleventh bounce. This is a drastic improvement over the stock landing behavior, which saw both main gear legs break after a super gentle touch down. Thank you!

OBIO

[phantomx1]

Very nice indeed Drzook! Thank you!

[Fauville]

Ron Watson has uploaded a fix at Avsim for the T cat

http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004acrp&DLID=153115

[Milton Shupe]

Just so you guys know, Ron Watson has been trying to join so he could post here but is still awaiting confirmation.

He has been reading the posts and responding to your feedback. Hopefully we will hear from him soon.

[Terry]

The fix cured all, much better now. Pilot texture is sharp, no jitters or dancing.

Thanks Ron

[OBIO]

Ooh La La! Add some specular shine and reflectivity to this plane and it really comes alive. How do I know? Cause I tweaked the MDL file using MDLC 117 and a hex editor to add specular shine and reflectivity.....that's how I know. Working on a paint job for the plane...a totally fictional but very nice looking color scheme with a British registration number...and the plane just looked flat. So I added the specular shine....and it was better. Then I added the reflectivity and tweaked the paint with an alpha channel...and, as the French say, Voi Louis!...or something like that.

Will contact maker of this fine little plane and see if he would like to upload the tweaked MDLs as an update or give me permission to do so.

OBIO

Oh....this plane will look great in polished aluminum don't ya think?

[Grumman]

Hello fellow pilots,

I would lke thank you all for the support. This project has been a long time coming. And it is great to see so many people enjoying it. If anybody is interested in releasing the AA1C for FSX? Please contact me ( www.ronco@amcom.co.nz (http://www.ronco@amcom.co.nz) ) as I do not run FSX. My system will not handle it.
:ernae:
Regards,
Ron Watson.