A posy for Panther?

[Cazzie]

Ed,

I have finally saved up enough money to get one of those Four-Thirds cameras and have been following all post you put up on the Olympus EPL-1 and Sony NEX.

I know you have one of each, which would you prefer should you only have finances for just one? Currently I am leaning toward the EPL-1, as it is more readily available in my area, but I'd like a second opinion from someone who has used both.

Caz

[Panther_99FS]

Phew Caz
That's a really tough call.......if you need an EVF, then Olympus "wins" since Sony doesn't have one.....if you don't then, then what kind of lenses will you be looking to shoot with? Dedicated platform lenses or a mix with adaptors :ques:

[Cazzie]

Ed,

One of the reasons I was leaning to the Olympus was that one could purchase an EVF attachment. I hate LCDs, I need to wear reading glasses to see good with them and an EVF allows me to compose easier. I was thinking of getting the PEN with the standard 14-42mm lens and the telephoto 40-150mm lens. Ritz Camera has a deal in which one can get both lens along with the MMF/2 adapter, which would give even greater telephoto capabilities. What do you think of this deal?

http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/SLR1220.htm?utm_medium=productsearch&utm_source=google

I have been impressed with the quality you have shown from your photos with both cameras.

Caz

[Panther_99FS]

Okay,
Since you hate LCD's, that knocks out the NEX......

My recommendation is that you look hard at the following:

-Olympus E-P2 Package With The VF-2 Viewfinder (you'll also like the additional external controls that the E-P2 gives you over the E-PL1)
-M. Zuiko 14-150ED lens (It's what I use and it gives me great range in a small package)

Here's a shot of my E-PL1 with my only lens, the M. Zuiko 14-150ED...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/4881279358_0711139891_b.jpg

[Cazzie]

Thanks a heap Ed,

I'll look into the EP-2, but the EPL-1 suits my budget better, even without the extra cost of the electronic viewfinder, those thing are as expensive as a camera!

Caz

[Panther_99FS]

Panasonic is offering this with their EVF for $708 USD
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/648490-REG/Panasonic_DMC_GF1K_K_Lumix_DMC_GF1_Digital_Camera. html

[Cazzie]

Panasonic is offering this with their EVF for $708 USD
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/648490-REG/Panasonic_DMC_GF1K_K_Lumix_DMC_GF1_Digital_Camera. html

Oooh, me like that, free viewfinder too, could use the extra cash for the optional 45-200mm telephoto lens shown. Would have to order online though, no stores here carry the Panasonic Four Thirds Lumix cameras.

Caz

[Panther_99FS]

Main difference between Olympus & Panasonic M 4/3'ds is that Olympus has in-body image stabilization whereas Panasonic does not.....So this is something to think about if you plan on using non-Panasonic M 4/3'ds lenses....

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Caz I'm not sure the GF1 EVF is always very highly thought of. It's not as good as what is on the G1, G2, GH1.

http://which43.com/?p=150

and for several opinions check - many here seem to think it is just fine.

http://www.mu-43.com/f43/evf-gf1-543/

This is the micro 4/3rds forum I belong to.

If you want the EVF for manual focus say with adapted lenses then the one with the GF1 may not do well enough. As a framing aid it's probably just fine. Best if you could try one. The Gf1 is a pretty good camera though. I use a G1.

Also be careful your getting what you want. Video? How much Video capability - 720p good enough? That is what the GF1 has.

Note also that the NEX3 is 14MP while the Micro 4/3rds is 12MP - if that makes any difference to you.

It's a tough decision picking out a small camera.

-Ed-

Panther is right on the stabilization issue.

[Panther_99FS]

Yes...as EasyEd says,
The Olympus EVF is much more highly rated than the Panasonic.....

[Cazzie]

Thanks Ed and Ed, I am leaning more toward the Olympus simply because it is readily available in my area, but so are the two Sony NEXs. From what I hear, the Sony NEX's LCD is very good and doesn't present much glare. What's your opinion on that Panther?

Caz

[Panther_99FS]

The NEX LCD is quite good & you can tilt it.....but again, if you really hate LCDs, then you might not be happpy in the long run.....

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Caz see if a store will take a NEX out into the daylight (hopefully it's sunny) so you can look at the LCD visibility. The string on the NEX at Future Shop here isn't long enough to get out the door so I can't say. Some say it isn't bad because of some design fixes - others don't like it. Panther can you see in bright daylight? Don't know if there will ever be an EVF for the NEX rumours mostly negative that I've seen but who knows. Also NEX like Panasonic has lens not body stabilization. I think high ISO performance better on NEX than Oly right Panther? I think better than on either e-P1 or 2 also.

Also Caz be sure you try out the NEX menu system and see if it's for you. The lack of manual control puts a lot of people off. Course that is also an issue on the Olympus E-PL1. Also e-P1 or 2 don't have built in flash nor do they autofocus while recording - don't know about E-PL1 Panther?

If the little square form factor is what your after these are pretty much the choices. If the square form factor isn't the deciding factor I would suggest you look around and consider the Panasonic G2. Just a little larger than an e-p1 (see bottom of this page for various size comparisons)

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DMCG2/DMCG2A.HTM

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

Not sure which LCD is the best in bright daylight. Even if the NEX is the worst, it has the advantage of being able to be partially tilted....However, there's no EVF for the NEX.

When it comes to high ISO performance, NEX spanks Olympus. But the Olympus kit lens is sharper than the NEX kit lens.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

P just remembering what the guy at Future Shop told me - the NEX LCD has some internal light reflection reducing technology/stuff - I've no idea if it works well or not.

As for high ISO performance I look at it this way. From a hardware perspective do you have good enough hardware that with good software processing you can "fix" high ISO problems? My sense of the NEX is that it has pretty darn good 14MP hardware combined with really good in camera software processing. The question is - is the Oly 12MP hardware good enough to get equally good high ISO results using either really good in camera or computer based software processing? So is the fault in the hardware or software or both? And how does a buyer know? If I knew I'd likely buy great hardware and learn to post process if the camera processing was weak. But if all I want is to use out of camera results - then I need to think about the whole camera (hardware and in camera software) package. Depends on how you want to work.

Consider Oly jpgs. Out of camera the Oly jpg images are really hard to beat for appeal. They are certainly better than panasonic G1 or 2 jpgs. But people have been changing in camera settings and how images are processsed in camera or computer converting and processing Panasonic RAW images and getting just as good a results. Does that make the Oly camera better or is just the software programming in the Panasonic camera weaker? And which as a consumer can you and can't you fix? I wish reviews clearly could distinguish the difference.

Pretty soon the Panasonic GH2 will be announced. 18MP total 16MP effective. A nice step up for micro 4/3rds. I'll be very curious to see what this means for high ISO performance.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

I see your point EasyEd...
I own Adobe Photoshop Elements 7 & Topaz DeNoise. And even with those, Sony's NEX high ISO performance still beats the Olympus....

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

P It may still beat the Oly but how do you know until you try multiple exposures and exposure blending coupled with - perhaps - some noise reduction on the Oly image? When I first learned of the idea of HDR I did immediately wonder about the possibilities of noise reduction with multiple different exposure shots of the same scene. I realized immediately that exposure blending was the real "key" to HDR not the tone mapping that makes the wild images - which is what the uninformed assumed HDR was all about. I'm wondering if all Sony did with the NEX was "go there"? The speed at which the NEX takes pictures (7/sec) made it possible - the Oly at - I think - 3/sec is too slow..

-Ed-

[Cazzie]

Panther and Ed, I have Photoshop CS4 and also the Pro Home edition of the Neat Image noise reduction filter plug-in. In case you haven't tried it, it does wonders to grainy high ISO pix.

http://www.neatimage.com/

As stated, the Oly is much more readily available in my depressed area than the NEX. I can get the NEX here, but I'll have to have the store order it, as it is not an in-store item. Might as well cut the middle man there and order it myself, should that be my choice. I have been leaning toward the EPL-1, due the image stab being built into the camera body in lieu of the lens and the Ritz off is hard to beat. BTW Ed, the EPL-1 I saw has a built in pop-up flash. As far as 12.3 mp vs 14 mp, I rarely shoot anything in the larger formats, in particular for web use. I generally use only 6 mp of the on my Pentax istDL even, plenty big for 8 X 10 or reduction for web use.

Caz

[JorisVandenBerghe]

Regarding the flash: the NEX does include a little flash - you have to mount it on the accessory port. Put it up to use it, put it down to turn it off. It comes with the camera.

http://www.pbase.com/anserum/image/124654380

http://www.pbase.com/anserum/image/124424251

[Panther_99FS]

-NEX comes with a flash & lens hood for the 18-55 kit lens.

Also,
NEX has some in-camera goodies that Olympus doesn't have - sweep panorama, hand-held twilight mode, and HDR.

Here's a straight out of camera shot in the AUTO HDR mode...(Note you can manually set the auto HDR to +/- upt 6 EV)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/4981175681_d84a1b1ed6_b.jpg

[Cazzie]

-NEX comes with a flash & lens hood for the 18-55 kit lens.

Also,
NEX has some in-camera goodies that Olympus doesn't have - sweep panorama, hand-held twilight mode, and HDR.

Here's a straight out of camera shot in the AUTO HDR mode...(Note you can manually set the auto HDR to +/- upt 6 EV)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/4981175681_d84a1b1ed6_b.jpg

Yeah, when I saw that 3200 OSO prop shot, I was amazed. You rascal, before it's over, you'll have me buying them both. Wasn't it enough when you near bankrupted me with all the FS9 and FSX payware purchases? :icon_lol:

[Panther_99FS]

Then again,
Here's an Olympus E-PL1 shot with my M. Zuiko 14-150ED....

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4090/4960143496_a4993d9e48_b.jpg

[Cazzie]

I glad you don't live near me Panther, my wife would not like me having a friend with so much influence on my purchases. :icon_lol:

Caz

[Panther_99FS]

And yet again on the other hand,
This is ISO 6400 straight out of camera shot from the NEX-3

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4939010825_8ef480526f_b.jpg

[JorisVandenBerghe]

By the way, the E-mount lenses are nicely made. Great build quality (I think it's metal ?) and they also have an in-lens AF-motor which is virtually silent. The front element doesn't rotate upon zooming nor focusing, so you could use a (polarizing or other) filter if you want :wavey:.

[Panther_99FS]

IMHO (and also another Oly/NEX owner's too),
The NEX 18-55 is softer in IQ than the Oly 14-42....However the NEX lens is definitely more solidly built....

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

P now your onto an issue that concerns me. I'm finding that I generally don't like (maybe prefer is a better word) lenses that produce "soft" images. I find that with a lot of images I want that "tack" sharpness. I'm sure you can see the difference between your D5000 and the NEX and the Oly is probably somewhere in between - probably closer to the Nikon. Now the question is - Is the image soft because of the lens or the focusing system? How do you get that sharpness on an LCD or in an EVF if you don't have all the little indicators (prisms, lines, etc) that used to be in film SLRs? This is another question that has bugged me for some time.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

EasyEd,
An acquaintance of mine who also owns the E-PL1 and NEX-5 is convinced it's in the NEX lens. When she tried her other lenses on the NEX, the images were sharp....

[Panther_99FS]

Still messing with aut-HDR settings on my NEX-3...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/4999623176_6f6bb61039_b.jpg