'Olympus E-5 DSLR Coming?'

[Panther_99FS]

http://www.43rumors.com/ft4-first-trusted-source-tested-the-new-olympus-e-5/

[lefty]

Hmm, this looks like I may have to save up after all.........

[Ferry_vO]

Wonder if you can still open the screen like in the first photo once you've installed a screen protector as seen in the second photo!

[lefty]

Can't think of too many occasions when I'd want to..........

[Ferry_vO]

Self-portraits..?

I don't see the purpose of a fold-uot screen on an SLR anyway... I have used 'live view' on my camera on only a handful of occasions where I needed to shoot over a fence.. There was a guy in the zoo today with an Olympus SLR who only used the live view to focus and shoot.. Some people 'just don't get it..

[lefty]

I agree - only really use the screen for checking the shots. Infuriates me that so few small compacts have a viewfinder.

[Panther_99FS]

I've read where landscape photographers like to use live view in conjunction with tri-pods....

[JorisVandenBerghe]

Now Ferry and Lefty, I'd like to ask where this 'hate' or "look, he/her is using live view...how unprofessional!" attitude about live view comes from.

I can understand why people prefer using live view although I only use it to get a decent shot from unusual angles (our cat on the grass for instance) and mostly use the OVF myself because it works easier with my telephoto lens which is rather heavy (1.5 kilogram).

Live view is not bad...it's the way some brands (Canon *cough* Nikon *cough*...not even mentioning the others) implemented it that made it pretty much useless except for static subjects and use on a tripod. It's especially useful when having an articulating LCD.

I have captured quite a number of shots of our cat using the articulating LCD. The following sounds like marketing talk, but still...if you want to experience live view the way it should be, go try a Sony DSLR with live view at your favourite camera store! The A550 and A500 (their successors are a tad slower, at 3 fps) even take 4 frames per second with autofocus in live view...They feature an additional sensor in the body, so live view uses the fast phase-detection autofocus you use when looking through the viewfinder. To my knowledge, Sony is the only camera brand to have useful live view on its DSLRs.

Just check this little gallery on Cameralabs.com, bottom of the page. Taken in live view, at 4 fps. Not even taken with a really fast-focusing lens, just an ordinary kitlens costing like $ 100 or so...

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Sony_Alpha_DSLR_A550/sample_images.shtml

My apologies for going way off-topic, but I strongly, but respectfully, disagree with some of the participants in this discussion. Thank you for your understanding.

[lefty]

Well sir, I think the answer in my case is explained by the difference in our ages (can't speak for Ferry, but he's a much better photographer than I would ever be)

When you've spent 50 years gazing through viewfinders, it comes as a serious culture shock to have to hold the ruddy camera at arms length, peering into a wee screen with the sun making it virtually invisible, and trying to compose a shot. I like to shoot without glasses on, and simply can't focus on the silly little screen easily. A viewfinder can be adjusted to my vision.

Martians first arriving here must think all these people with outstretched arms are in the middle of some form of worship........

So in my case, it certainly isn't snobbery !

[Ferry_vO]

I don't like looking at the screen either, mainly because it's hard to tell what the AF is focussing on and taking the actual photo takes too long (Relatively speaking). When using the viewfinder I can see exactly what will be in the shot and how the focus is.
Other than taking photos from an difficult angle I don't see any use for live view at the moment.

[Panther_99FS]

When you've spent 50 years gazing through viewfinders, it comes as a serious culture shock to have to hold the ruddy camera at arms length, peering into a wee screen with the sun making it virtually invisible, and trying to compose a shot. I like to shoot without glasses on, and simply can't focus on the silly little screen easily. A viewfinder can be adjusted to my vision.



So in my case, it certainly isn't snobbery !

You'll get no argument from me here!

[EasyEd]

Hey All,


When you've spent 50 years gazing through viewfinders, it comes as a serious culture shock to have to hold the ruddy camera at arms length, peering into a wee screen with the sun making it virtually invisible, and trying to compose a shot. I like to shoot without glasses on, and simply can't focus on the silly little screen easily. A viewfinder can be adjusted to my vision.Time moves on the world moves on... Whole generations of photographers don't use a viewfinder now - so - time for old dogs to learn new tricks and adapt to change - you have to believe change is good otherwise it just pizzes ya off.

That said I have spent over 30 years using viewfinders and prefer them myself but that said I now use a Panasonic G1 and am going to buy a G2 to have video and other features (see below). I have found that I often use liveview (as you call it) or the LCD for a number of situations like low angle shots where I don't have to lay on the ground to use the viewfinder or for those more discreet shots where you don't want a subject to be camera conscious as they often are when you put camera to eye. Of course you need a high quality multi-way swivelable LCD like the G1/G2 has. It also helps that you can swivel it to reduce glare. That said I still use the viewfinder 90% or more of the time although in the case of the G1 it is not a mirror based viewfinder but is an EVF - electronic viewfinder - so the colors are not exactly right but close and the sharpness and crispness and 100% field of view is there so it works very well. I find I don't look at the color in the EVF as I am more focused on composition. On the G2 the LCD is not only multiway swivelable but is also is touch sensitive and so you can define your focus point by touching the screen where you want it to focus and even take the picture by touching the screen as well as go through all the menus and such by touch.

So I am learning a new trick and that is how to use each way of operating the camera to advantage. I would not however want to be without a viewfinder of some sort - mainly because of the glare issues in bright sunlight although ability to swivel the LCD does help.

-Ed-

[JorisVandenBerghe]

I don't like looking at the screen either, mainly because it's hard to tell what the AF is focussing on and taking the actual photo takes too long (Relatively speaking). When using the viewfinder I can see exactly what will be in the shot and how the focus is.
I thought the 7D's autofocus was such a clever piece of technology, LOL. How can it be hard to see where the focus is, as you see exactly the different picture as well as the AF-points ? I mean, when I take a picture of a flower through either the viewfinder or the LCD, I see exactly the same and it takes just as long (both focusing and taking the shot). I can tell what it is focusing on and on what it doesn't...or do you mean those 19 cross-sensor AF-points aren't visible during live view ? Doesn't the LCD features an anti-glare coating or anything by the way ? A lot of DSLRs have it these days and I'd be surprised if the 7D hasn't.

I understand your point about the available correction, Lefty, and the matter of getting used to it. But it's the future...EVFs can be corrected to suit your eyes, so it may just be a matter of time before it will be available in live view. Unless you're using long lenses, live view works just as good as the OVF.

[kilo delta]

Only time I've ever used live view on my Nikon d300 was when shooting macro. I find it much handier to use the viewfinder.


OT: but the lack of a viewfinder on my JVC HD camcorder (compared to my old Panasonic SD camcorder) is extremely irritating at times too.

[lefty]

Another thing - when you're using a viewfinder, the camera is held quite tight against your face/nose whatever, which helps to keep the thing steady. Nice and compact. Holding it out some vague distance in front of you squinting to try and see what's on the damn screen ain't exactly going to help the camera shake ! Unless you use one of those bracket things, of course, which is cumbersome.

[Ferry_vO]

Another thing - when you're using a viewfinder, the camera is held quite tight against your face/nose whatever, which helps to keep the thing steady.

Aiming is easier too, especially with a large distance.


How can it be hard to see where the focus is, as you see exactly the different picture as well as the AF-points ?

Harder than looking through the viewfinder, especially with moving objects. When looking through the viewfinder I see nothing but the subject and the AF points. Looking at the screen I see the image on the screen, the camera, and everything around the camera.


I mean, when I take a picture of a flower through either the viewfinder or the LCD, I see exactly the same and it takes just as long (both focusing and taking the shot).

The mirror is in the 'up' postion when using live view, so when taking the shot the mirror goes down first, then up&down to take the photo and up again to go back to live view. Two steps more than taking shots using the viewfinder.

Once again, liveview works but I wouldn't use it for anything else than static objects.

Edit: And when making movies.

[Panther_99FS]

I think people should be able to shoot in whatever way pleases them the most :)

You go Lefty! :jump:

[JorisVandenBerghe]

I agree about the aiming and the stability, especially with telephoto lenses like my 70-400. With smaller (read: less than 1 kilogram) lenses, it ain't a problem to me though.

You can prevent fluffing a shot by cranking up the ISO so the shutter speed freezes your movement...most contemporary DSLRs have superb high ISO-performance.

In my opinion that's a matter of concentrating on your subject, Ferry. Then again, who am I to judge about someone else's shooting habits.

I'll agree we disagree about the usability of live view. I think it's a wonderful thing.