Bare Metal T-33?

[falcon409]

I found a suggestion by our very own Caz over on the Simmers Paintshop for doing bare metal liveries. This is a first start attempt just to see if the effect had promise with the T-33. All I did was use the silver Caz suggested and then laid an alpha with the gray he suggested over the entire thing. Obviously I'll have to be very precise with where the alpha is and isn't but I kinda like the looks of it for a beginning anyway.

Scuffing up the panels, highlights and shadows will all come later as I tweak it and of course go in with my X-acto and cut away everything that doesn't get the alpha. Thanks Caz!!:salute:

[crashaz]

What a fantastic start though! I like it!! All them century fighters need that finish!!

[txnetcop]

WAY TO GO FALCON!!!!
Ted

[Bone]

Very nice...and shiney. Looks like I'll be doing a bit of time in the T-Bird.

[Bone]

If you're taking requests, then howza'bout:

http://www.marchfield.org/t33a.htm

[Thoe6969]

Oh yeh ,thats looking mighty fine.

[skyblazer3]

Looks fantastic, very subtle. So what was Caz's suggestion? Did it have to do with the base texture color?

[falcon409]

He suggested using silver (136,136,136) for the base color and the alpha (175,175,175). This shot is after I figured out a way to get the alpha I needed and spent about an hour drawing in all the knock out areas to allow the insignias and placards to show with little or no shine. I still need to lighten the main alpha a bit. This looks ok, but not very realistic really. It's gonna take some time to get something that looks decent.

[skyhawka4m]

looking good sir! In side areas of the wing tanks was most often flat black.

[Pips]

Ooh, I like the effect..... I like it very much! :)

[Helldiver]

Best looking reflective surface I've seen. It seems that it lacks another lighter tone, almost a white if you know what I mean.

[falcon409]

Best looking reflective surface I've seen. It seems that it lacks another lighter tone, almost a white if you know what I mean.
Yep, I'm with you Helldiver. It is a good reflective surface, but it still doesn't look right. It looks like a gray airplane with several coats of Clear Coat over it. . .not aluminum. Here's another shot I just did. I've been slowly knocking out all the small placards and warnings so that they are bright and visible again rather than dulled down by the alpha channel.

[falcon409]

Well, I'm gonna set this aside for awhile and maybe come back to it later. I've decided that there really is no way to make a flat color with an alpha look like real metal. Photoreal textures would be the only way to get a true polished aluminum look. As it is, irregardless of the shade of gray or the weathering I've tried on it or the degree of alpha, it simply looks like a dirty gray paint job with a nice Clear Coat finish.:salute:

[skyblazer3]

I've decided that there really is no way to make a flat color with an alpha look like real metal. Photoreal textures would be the only way to get a true polished aluminum look. :

I think there is probably a lot of truth in that.

[Railrunner130]

I recently took a layer of light grey, dropped some random size and various shades of grey onto it, and smeared it. I also isolated a few areas and added another layer of a darker shade to certain panels. I think you could skip the last part because the T-33 skin most likely was built using all of the same aluminum. My panel lines and rivets I usually make a medium grey.

I haven't been very happy with my alpha channel selection, but I've been toying with different textures on it. I'd like to get a swirl going, like a bad polish job or a quick wipe down.

I'm not sure I'm on the right track, but hope that some of it helps!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a310/Railrunner130/2010-6-19_21-33-55-393.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a310/Railrunner130/2010-7-7_21-7-2-760.jpg
If you do this, make sure you have the imperfections going on the proper directions. Notice the two panels that have been darkened. The engines have not been reworked with the latest textures.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a310/Railrunner130/2010-7-7_21-11-31-261.jpg
The strut shows the effects of adding other shades of grey to the alpha layer.

[stansdds]

Simulating a natural metal finish is probably the hardest thing to do. I've never mastered the art.

[Helldiver]

122241222312222Boy, you are awful close with a reflective surface. It's by far the best I've seen. Maybe it lacks a black as can be seen in these reflectibe aircraft. But I wouldn't quit. What you have is very acceptable. I'm merely counting rivets here.

[falcon409]

Well Helldiver, I think what's lacking is that while I have a pretty nice "shine", there really isn't any "reflectivity". With most polished aluminum skins you have "reflections and this doesn't have that. I've heard folks talk about Environmental Maps (I think that's what it's called). I'm wondering if that's the missing part of this puzzle?:confused:

[Helldiver]

Well Falcon old buddy, I sure would like to get ahold of your T-33 as well as a bunch other guys on SOH. It's by far the best reflective surface that's come along, by far.
I'd sure like to see it on Bill Lyons Luscombe 8A Silvaire for FSX. Now's there's a shiny airplane.

[Tweek]

Well Helldiver, I think what's lacking is that while I have a pretty nice "shine", there really isn't any "reflectivity". With most polished aluminum skins you have "reflections and this doesn't have that. I've heard folks talk about Environmental Maps (I think that's what it's called). I'm wondering if that's the missing part of this puzzle?:confused:

Does it have to be a true FSX model to get the kind of reflections you see on say, the Acceleration P-51? That really does look like bare metal, so there must be some way of doing it. Not sure if you can do it on port overs, but that's only a guess.

[falcon409]

Does it have to be a true FSX model to get the kind of reflections you see on say, the Acceleration P-51? That really does look like bare metal, so there must be some way of doing it. Not sure if you can do it on port overs, but that's only a guess.
It appears that the "reflection", or the ability to "reflect" has to be programed into the original model, otherwise no amount of shine will reproduce that effect. The T-33 is an old model. . .a great one, but an old one and doesn't have the ability to "reflect", so it isn't gonna happen with this model.

[stansdds]

It appears that the "reflection", or the ability to "reflect" has to be programed into the original model, otherwise no amount of shine will reproduce that effect. The T-33 is an old model. . .a great one, but an old one and doesn't have the ability to "reflect", so it isn't gonna happen with this model.
That is also my understanding of shine and reflections in FSX and why the A2A F4U Corsair has a semi-gloss finish at best. Shine and reflectivity were not part of its model, so a painter simply cannot get a highly reflective, glossy finish. Helldiver knows what I mean.

[Daube]

It appears that the "reflection", or the ability to "reflect" has to be programed into the original model, otherwise no amount of shine will reproduce that effect. The T-33 is an old model. . .a great one, but an old one and doesn't have the ability to "reflect", so it isn't gonna happen with this model.

It's linked to the programmation of th original model indeed, but not only.
It's all about the Alpha Channel it I understood right. The alpha can define the amount of transparency if the 3D surface was defined to be transparent, or the amount of reflectivity if the 3D surface was defined to be reflective.

In that way, we could see in the past, for some models, some repaints that had a "full chrome" effect... but still, that never looked like real bare metal at all.

If you want to accomplish a good bare metal effect, I think you will have to combine two things:
- an appropriate reflectivity (and the envmap is the texture that is used for "painting" the reflection)
- a photo-real metallic texture, just like the Mustangs from Warwick Carter for example, or the Beech D-18 from Milton.

You will not get a good metallic impression using only reflections in FS9. The FS9 graphical effects are not good enough. In FSX, you can get something a little bit better, thanks to the bump-mapping (the Acceleration Mustang, or the freeware L-159, are perfect examples) and a good texture.

[falcon409]

Yep, bottom line is that this model won't give that sort of polished aluminum appearance and I have no desire to try a photoreal skin.