Bringing scenery alive

[bobhegf]

This is what having people in the scenery can do to bring thr scenery alive.If we can get them on moving ships and get the AI airceaft on moving ships then we can add a great deal of life to CFS2.

[Ghostrider]

Nice screenie, Bob - I agree compltely - the people "make" it.

Yes, A/C on ships would be a huge improvement too - even if like the personnel, they didn't move. Seems to me that some fairly simple, low poly models of shipboard A/C could be made as part of the ship itself. There could be, say, a model of a CV with planes spotted forward, and a crash barrier in aircraft recovery mode, and another with the planes spotted aft, in launch mode.

Sadly, this is way beyond my meager computer skills, or time constraints with CFS2, but it seems do-able to me, and I'll bet that most computers these days have the horsepower to deal with the additional polys.

Anyway, it's an idea -

How's tricks in Greenville?

[Discus]

Nice screenie, Bob - I agree compltely - the people "make" it.

Yes, A/C on ships would be a huge improvement too - even if like the personnel, they didn't move. Seems to me that some fairly simple, low poly models of shipboard A/C could be made as part of the ship itself. There could be, say, a model of a CV with planes spotted forward, and a crash barrier in aircraft recovery mode, and another with the planes spotted aft, in launch mode.

Sadly, this is way beyond my meager computer skills, or time constraints with CFS2, but it seems do-able to me, and I'll bet that most computers these days have the horsepower to deal with the additional polys.

Anyway, it's an idea -

How's tricks in Greenville?

I think we can put airplanes on the flying deck of any CV if you load them as weapons through the CV´s dp. I know there are some USN airplanes done with that intention in mind. With folded and unfolded wings, and, if my memory don´t fails, with engines on or off. They are here in SOH.

And I think that you can load any airplane (of any nationality) as a weapon. But you can´t make it fly.

Cheers, Discus

[Rami]

Bob,

Your ideas are outstanding, but allow me to make a counter-point here. As a scenery designer, mission maker, aircraft designer, or ship builder, you are always facing the conundrum...

"how detailed and rich can I make it without members taking me out to the woodshed and beating the stuffing out of me?"

The issue centers around that 64KB mission limit for non-XP systems, and poly counts / multi-res for aircraft and ships. If you make things TOO detailed, non-XP or higher systems, or those with slower computers may not be able to run it. (Usio's ships are a perfect example of this)

The solution for this from a scenery / MB standpoint is to make such scenery GSL, so that way it stands on its own without needing to import the objects every time to each mission. However, that comes with its own problems...namely that everything becomes a "solid wall."

(An example is those people you have next to the aircraft. If you made that GSL scenery, you'd die if you crash into them, though we both know the aircraft would certainly win that battle, as Indy's opponent found out in Raiders of the Lost Ark)

If this were enacted, you may want to do a "lite" version for slower computers (I have to do that for missions, occasionally), or for those who simply don't want to install a page-and-a-half of library objects.

It's a hard balance to strike, I run headlong into this all the time with missions. Again, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, because I think it is a great idea. :ernae:

[Ghostrider]

Yes, I remember those models - B-24 guy, I think? They were very nice - I guess I'm just envisioning something a little more framerate and mission builder friendly where we could just select a ship in MB, say "CV-10 Yorktown recovering", and use it in MB. Don't get me wrong, I don't think these would replace those other models you referred to at all - they would just have different uses.

And of course as Rami says, there is always a balance to strike between aesthetics and function. Uh oh, now I sound like a dentist or something. :eek:

[TARPSBird]

Bob, what scenery has the sailors in dungarees and the officers/CPO's in khakis standing around?

[Ghostrider]

Yes, do tell!

Somebody put those guys "At ease". :salute:

[delta_lima]

Nice screenie, Bob - I agree compltely - the people "make" it.

Yes, A/C on ships would be a huge improvement too - even if like the personnel, they didn't move. Seems to me that some fairly simple, low poly models of shipboard A/C could be made as part of the ship itself. There could be, say, a model of a CV with planes spotted forward, and a crash barrier in aircraft recovery mode, and another with the planes spotted aft, in launch mode.

Sadly, this is way beyond my meager computer skills, or time constraints with CFS2, but it seems do-able to me, and I'll bet that most computers these days have the horsepower to deal with the additional polys.

Anyway, it's an idea -

How's tricks in Greenville?

My knowledge of CFS2 is still growing ... but I know this from having extensively monkeyed about with AI and static carrier aircraft in FS9 ....

First, like Rami said, there's the frame rate issue ... but there's also a challenge I've encountered with AI & static planes on axial-deck carriers .... room! You could pack a few static planes at stern of the deck for looks - at the start of the mission. But then at the end, if you're landing on the same boat, they'd be in the way. Of course, the reverse would be true if you had them on the bow - good for recovery, but now good for launch. Compounding the narrow deck space issue is the fact that I know of only a few FS9 AI planes (Alphasim A-6 and S-3, and Fernandez' F-4B ) who have folding wings.

So unless there is a way for some kind of on-deck traffic management system in the sim's engine - along the lines of an AFCAD system that tells folding wing aircraft when to fold/extend their wings and how/when to park - I don't know how that would be done.

That said, on a larger angled deck carrier, you could stick a couple of smaller static planes ahead and behind the island - and still be able to recover on the angled deck, and launch off the front unimpeded.

dl

[bobhegf]

The scenery is some I have done for the Cactus missions I hope to uploading soon.Now about the Idea of putting the planes on a ship. It will work with no problem doing it the way that was suggested and with only a small frame rate hit. I have some of Leroy 10 trees using 256x256 pitmaps and was able to plant well over 2000 trees around Henderson Field along with the TL-Crew, tents,bulldozers,jeeps,trucks,B-24s Folding wings AC along with other objects and I still got a smoothe ride with no problems. I am running Win98SE on an 8 yearold machine.The GSL is the answer for ground scenery.You can use Martin Wright`s GSL program or the CFS2 GSL program. I find the CFS2 GSL program fast and easy to use.The big problem I have are dark clouds and blake smoke. Those two things kill my frame rates and fast so I don`t have alot of clouds in my scenery.I use CFO Weather so I am able to adjust the weather on the fly in any mission.NOW, lets talk carrier aircraft and aircraft carriers.You can build the carriers or you can take the folding wings ac that The B-24 Guy made and use them.The reason we can`t use any stock AI aircraft in the mission builder on a carrier other than static ac is because when we build missions we can`t controll the ground speed or the alt of the aircraft, I am limitted to 130kts and 167ft in the mission builder.There are ways to correct this problem. You have suggested a few that will work and I am going to suggest one more that I have tried to get someone to help me with for the last six years.You can take The B-24 Guys Folding wings AC and turn them into ships.The B-24 Guy forgot one ship board fighter and dive bomber that need folded wings, The F6F Hellcat and the Helldiver.Now,it will take some work and most if not all the suggestions inorder to get this to work.I will work with anyone or any group,all you have to do is ask.PLease ask I just checked to see how many foldes wings AC you could put on a stock Yourktown class carrier and I came out with six which is about what the real carrier could put in line on her deck. I used the F4F.

[bobhegf]

I just tried to get the AI folded wings ac to fly from a standing start at ground level as well as the TL Crew to move and it was a no go. back to the idea board.

[Discus]

I just tried to get the AI folded wings ac to fly from a standing start at ground level as well as the TL Crew to move and it was a no go. back to the idea board.

Just a stupid blind shot.
Ships in CFS2 can run into each other without consequenses (other than an odd looking/unreal situation) so:

For a second CV going along the CV where the player is suppoused to land:

What if you:
a) Treat an AI aircraft like a ship.
b) Give them contact points like real loooooong "invisible" wheel struts that keeps them at flying deck altitude.
c) Spawn them at the start of the action a with a little more speed above appropiate stall speed, 1000 ft behind and aligned with the deck.
d) Make them slow down as best as you can, using Cody´s MB tutorial for making landing crafts stop before the beach. Or (more advanced) give them a "working" tailhook. May be it still works with out tweaking?

As I write this I find some draw backs:
1-You need to make a dp for the CV deleting any vertical movement of the CV.
2-I don´t know (yet) how to make the adjustment of the contact points.
3-I don´t know (yet) how the tailhook will react.:bump:
4-It won´t be a proper landing.
5-You can only "land" 1 airplane (but that´s more than nothing at all), but you can add to it a fly by another flight.

It can improve the situation a lot. How about seeng the torpedo bomber you´ve just managed to keep safe from harm landing safely back at home?!:jump:

But again, it´s just a thought that may be someone could pic and improve, or launch from here to the eternity.

Cheers, Discus:salute:

[Talon]

Not CFS2 but planes on deck look nice.


Talon

[bobhegf]

Talon, I have tried everything to get the folded wing aircraft to move. How did you do it?

[Talon]

Talon, I have tried everything to get the folded wing aircraft to move. How did you do it?

Bob,

The screenshots are not from CFS2,they are from another sim I fly.I do fly other combat sims and do alot of work on them also.


Talon

[bobhegf]

I didn`t read your post correctly. Went back and went back over it, my mess up.What sim is it?

[bearcat241]

I didn`t read your post correctly. Went back and went back over it, my mess up.What sim is it?

IL2 FB - Pacific Fighters...if you're into PTO A2A action, its not a bad option to have when you get the urge to step outside the CFS2 Pacific world. Sea scenery, weapon and damage effects, and aircraft model graphics are a perfect 10 IMO, including 3D clouds and dynamically moving waves. Don't like the land scenery graphics too much tho' -- could be better. Fighter AI are reasonably intelligent, responsive and aggressive with solid tactics. And friendly AI will launch and recover to carrier along with the player in missions. It was the Ace Expansion Pack and Pacific Fighters addons that got me back to playing IL2 FB.

[Talon]

IL2 FB - Pacific Fighters...if you're into PTO A2A action, its not a bad option to have when you get the urge to step outside the CFS2 Pacific world. Sea scenery, weapon and damage effects, and aircraft model graphics are a perfect 10 IMO, including 3D clouds and dynamically moving waves. Don't like the land scenery graphics too much tho' -- could be better. Fighter AI are reasonably intelligent, responsive and aggressive with solid tactics. And friendly AI will launch and recover to carrier along with the player in missions. It was the Ace Expansion Pack and Pacific Fighters addons that got me back to playing IL2 FB.

Actually it's IL2 1946 which has all the IL2 games.With all the addons for it,it's pretty good sim now.You can even have crew members on the deck.Great for flying online.


Talon

[Fibber]

I believe that TiLoup did a carrier with planes with folded wings and started engines. He also has figures that you can place around the deck. I know he had one mission where you take off and sometimes a idling corsair will catch on fire on the deck.
Just found them. They are called Tl_crew-(1-5) They were here before the hack. I still have them.

[bearcat241]

Actually it's IL2 1946 which has all the IL2 games.

Yeah i know, but right now i'm waaay behind on the recent updates. Got 'em all on my hard drive and CD's, but since i don't fly it online, i left off at IL2 PF+FB+AEP 4.04m. Haven't gotten around to the 1946 expansion yet -- its on my to do list for 2011.

Meanwhile, long live CFS2! ...:salute:

[bobhegf]

Anyone interested in helping to try and figure out how to put moving AI aircraft on carriers?

[Pips]

The IL-2 1946 sim is definitely a very classy product, as Bearcat said. Aircraft are superb, as is AI, and the graphics are first class. However the Pacific theatre is poorly let down by the land scenery. It's downright awful! :eek:

CFS 2, even in it's most basic form, is better. And with all the excellent terrain add-ons it's streets ahead.

[trasno]

Yes, the Pacific scenary from IL-2 is awfull. Flying over Oahu is like flying over a golf course. A pity. And you can´t change anything, the payloads are fixed, guns are fixed. You only can change the skins. I would like to see more carriers, small ships and more vehicles.

Trasno

[Talon]

Yes, the Pacific scenary from IL-2 is awfull. Flying over Oahu is like flying over a golf course. A pity. And you can´t change anything, the payloads are fixed, guns are fixed. You only can change the skins. I would like to see more carriers, small ships and more vehicles.

Trasno

Actually you can change somethings.There is a new Hawaii map and many others.A new update just came out 2.01 which gives you alot of new things.

In my game I have several Solomons maps,Korea,Burma.Thailand some F-86;s,Mig-15's Panthers,Skyraider,Cougars and the list goes on.I can't list everything because there is so much.


Talon

[bobhegf]

Here is another shot.

[Ghostrider]

That's looking very nice, Bob!

[trasno]

Actually you can change somethings.There is a new Hawaii map and many others.A new update just came out 2.01 which gives you alot of new things.

In my game I have several Solomons maps,Korea,Burma.Thailand some F-86;s,Mig-15's Panthers,Skyraider,Cougars and the list goes on.I can't list everything because there is so much.


Talon

Is that update an Ultrapack?

Trasno

[Talon]

Is that update an Ultrapack?

Trasno

Trasno,

Yes it's an Ultrapack but you can add other addons to it.Right now I have the 2.0 Ultrapack but plan on downloading the 2.01 soon.


Talon

[miamieagle]

Its IL46!

Another fine Sim!

I fly CFS2 and Il46 as well.

There are things you can with one Sim that cannot bee done with the other.So I fly them both!

It all about enjoying a hobby with others in a community!
:jump:

[trasno]

Trasno,

Yes it's an Ultrapack but you can add other addons to it.Right now I have the 2.0 Ultrapack but plan on downloading the 2.01 soon.


Talon

Hi Talon

Sorry to ask, because I know you are not ok in health. And you are my only one contact with 1946 world.
I installed UP 2.01, and now I got some doubts.
Is possible to modify a map? I ask because in the Aleutian map, Fort Glen is wrong placed.
How can I make a map?
Is possible to change plane payloads? Because B5N ones are wrong...
How can I use the maps in the quick mission builder?

Thanks

Emilio "Trasno"

I forgot to ask for the new Hawain map you installed. Where can I find it?

[Jagdflieger]

Bob,

That last screen shot with the Wildcat looks good enough to be a photo.

Here's a few shots I made several years ago when playing around with figures in CFS 2.

[Jagdflieger]

A few more from the Russian Front. Scale was an issue with these figures, although I've always felt that the stock MS tents and barrels were a little large.

[Talon]

Hi Talon

Sorry to ask, because I know you are not ok in health. And you are my only one contact with 1946 world.
I installed UP 2.01, and now I got some doubts.
Is possible to modify a map? I ask because in the Aleutian map, Fort Glen is wrong placed.
How can I make a map?
Is possible to change plane payloads? Because B5N ones are wrong...
How can I use the maps in the quick mission builder?

Thanks

Emilio "Trasno"

I forgot to ask for the new Hawain map you installed. Where can I find it?

Trasno,

I don't have the 2.01 yet because I'm out to sea and can't dowload it because of the size.That also means I don't have any of the addon maps or updated maps. By the end of August I'l be up to date with everything I hope.

I also belong to a group of guys that fly online. The leader of the group gets all the addons for us and puts them up on his site. We also test some of the addons before they are released. I know in the 2.0 release you could activate the maps for QC but everything was in Russian when you flew them. You had to use the JSGME exe to activate them.


Talon

[trasno]

Thanks Talon


Trasno