Alphasim F7F Tigercat flight dynamics question

[OBIO]

I have two alternative flight dynamics packages that I downloaded from the library for the Alpha F7F. One package is geared for the F7F-3N night fighter....I have set that plane up as a separate plane and installed that set of flight dynamics. The second package is called Tigerkitty-2 and it has two air files in it....one named the same as the stock file (Tigercat V2) and the other is named Tigercat V2.aam1.air. Which one of these is better suited to the standard day fighter Tigercat?

Also, am I the only one tired of flying the dark blue Tigercat or the very dark blue Tigercat? I hope not...cause I have spent this evening working on a paint template for the plane. Enlarged all the texture sheets to twice the stock size (from 512 by 512 to 1024 by 1024 or from 256 by 256 to 512 by 512). Much sharper panel lines, much sharper details. Found a few really neat paint schemes..non-historic I would imagine...but they will add some nice variety to the Tigercat. And I have a few fictional skins in mind...British Royal Navy (tested the plane in 1945 but chose to go with a navalized version of the Hornet), a USAF style skin, a US Army Air Force skin with D-Day stripes, and an Ohio Air National Guard circa 1949 skin....totally fictional squadron called the Sabretooths.

And all this because I was going to use the F7F to fly the 5th leg of the Greek Island Hop List on line but wasn't in the mood to fly a blue airplane.

OBIO

[PeteHam]

I'd gladly welcome some new Tigercat textures :jump:

Thanks OBIO :applause:

Pete.

[Sundog]

I remember a couple of years back, someone made textures for the Tigercat in a USAAC natural metal finish, but I think those textures were lost in the Avsim crash. Needless to say, I'll be looking forward to your. Also, I can't answer your FDE question, since I don't have any of those updates you're referring to.

[OBIO]

I know the stock flight dynamics have the F7F flying like a pig. I will test the other flight dynamics and see which give the best performance for the F7F-3.

Here are two screen shots of the F7F in polished bare metal, fully reflective textures. Still a ways to go before I have the entire paint template done...but I am getting there.

OBIO

[tonybones2112]

I know the stock flight dynamics have the F7F flying like a pig. I will test the other flight dynamics and see which give the best performance for the F7F-3.

Here are two screen shots of the F7F in polished bare metal, fully reflective textures. Still a ways to go before I have the entire paint template done...but I am getting there.

OBIO

I flew several F7Fs in CFS2 and as you say, they suck. I haven't deleted the zip files yet, if the real plane flew this way the real plane flew this way, but it and the Skyrocket are 2 I just don't fly.

Bones

[zmike]

<<one is named the same as the stock file (Tigercat V2) and the other is named Tigercat V2.aam1.air.>>

aam(n).air files are just backup files autocreated by the air file editor during FD development. The unfinished and earlier aam1 air file should have been deleted before uploading to avoid this confusion.

FSAviator

[expat]

I remember a couple of years back, someone made textures for the Tigercat in a USAAC natural metal finish

Think I have that - with green trim? - called "Problem Child".

OBIO, as someone said, "there you go again"?!

Didn't you start/post in a SOH thread about the AS F7F panel/gauges (in FSX?) a year or so ago? I have a ported one that flies very well in FSX and uses hi res gauges. Would be just the ticket to get some better paint jobs. The "glossy sea blue" color as Helldiver will attest is often hard to get right in FS and the ones available are too dark. Nice fictional 2/3 tone USN paint was done a while ago with "Felix the Cat" on it.

Also, if you check airliners.net there is at least one AWESOME F7F on the airshow circuit painted in Korea era black with cool detailing and nose emblem colors.

Look forward to your continuing great work. Any progress on the RA-5C?

expat

[OBIO]

The RA-5C project has hit a snag...not a major one, just a really annoying one. I hate those tail codes on the tail...on one side they have to be angled one way, on the other side they have to be angled the other way...and I don't have a font that is remotely close to those boxy letters...so I am having to "draw" the tail code letters then distort them into the proper angles. The results are less than stellar...at least of the 5th skin. The first four skins are done...I think I will get the project packed up with the 4 completed skins, the new 2D and VC panel arrangement and release it to the world. I will also upload the paint template in case anyone else wants to spray some paint on the bird. I will do a few more skins and upload them as a separate package later...once I get those darn tail codes perfected.

OBIO

[fsafranek]

The RA-5C project has hit a snag...not a major one, just a really annoying one. I hate those tail codes on the tail...on one side they have to be angled one way, on the other side they have to be angled the other way...and I don't have a font that is remotely close to those boxy letters...so I am having to "draw" the tail code letters then distort them into the proper angles. The results are less than stellar...at least of the 5th skin. The first four skins are done...I think I will get the project packed up with the 4 completed skins, the new 2D and VC panel arrangement and release it to the world. I will also upload the paint template in case anyone else wants to spray some paint on the bird. I will do a few more skins and upload them as a separate package later...once I get those darn tail codes perfected.

OBIO
What paint program are you using? See it there isn't a "slew" function. Angle normal text (best Navy font I've found is the payware Long Beach font) forward or backwards the necessary angle -- you may have to do the two letters individually to get the right angles. In PSP7 that I continue to use it gives them a very jagged edge but if you make them quite a bit oversized you can them clean that edge up with an anti-aliased line where necessary. By the time you resize them down to the correct size they clean up nicely.

Hope this helps. Looking forward to some new RA-5C flights.
:ernae:

[OBIO]

Frank

You are a genious! I went in, redid the tail lettering on the NAS Sanford paint...not an exact match, but much much closer...and more importantly, much better looking than the crap I was doing. Now I will use those techniques to redo the tail codes on the first four paints. That will put the final coffin nails in five new paints and this package will be ready to zip up and upload.

Here's the funny thing...I have been using Photoshop on and off since 1993 or 1994....Version 1.0 for Mac I think. There is so much power in Photoshop that it is nearly impossible to know the program fully....I have learned a number of new techniques this year alone.

OBIO

[srgalahad]

I have two alternative flight dynamics packages that I downloaded from the library for the Alpha F7F. One package is geared for the F7F-3N night fighter....I have set that plane up as a separate plane and installed that set of flight dynamics. The second package is called Tigerkitty-2 and it has two air files in it....one named the same as the stock file (Tigercat V2) and the other is named Tigercat V2.aam1.air. Which one of these is better suited to the standard day fighter Tigercat?

Both flight models (-3N and Tigerkitty) were done by fliger747 and are the only ones approved for use in the RTWR (because of the realism). There are differences because the two configurations are different (fuel, drag) and you'll note that the changes are to both the .cfg and .air files.


Also, am I the only one tired of flying the dark blue Tigercat or the very dark blue Tigercat? I hope not...cause I have spent this evening working on a paint template for the plane. Enlarged all the texture sheets to twice the stock size (from 512 by 512 to 1024 by 1024 or from 256 by 256 to 512 by 512). Much sharper panel lines, much sharper details. Found a few really neat paint schemes..non-historic I would imagine...but they will add some nice variety to the Tigercat. And I have a few fictional skins in mind...British Royal Navy (tested the plane in 1945 but chose to go with a navalized version of the Hornet), a USAF style skin, a US Army Air Force skin with D-Day stripes, and an Ohio Air National Guard circa 1949 skin....totally fictional squadron called the Sabretooths.

OBIO
There are other possible paints ( I remember seeing a fire-tanker one out there at some point) and yes, the "variations on blue" can be a bit boring and awkward at the same time depending on the light and image settings, etc of the photos.. A couple of mine from Palm Springs and links to a few others of the same plane on the Web...

http://www.p38.com/images_list.cfm
http://classicwarbirds.net/ (scroll down what should be the first page)

Rob

[fliger747]

I have recollection that Willy did a paint and airfile for this plane at some point or another. One of the issues with the stock cfg file was the nose gear which had a tendency to get into a set of oscillations and fail.

[HorusJ]

This site might help for future Cat repaints:
http://napoleon130.tripod.com/f7ftigercat/

J

PS:I would love to have a FS tanker-cat,even if it is missing that bulging belly.

[smilo]

thanks OBIO, it's good to see you taking on this project. :salute:
the F7F-3N was my aircraft of choice for the RTWR.
she wasn't the fastest, but I liked the way she handled.
if I could get a bare metal version, without insignia,
I would be a happy camper.
then, if I could figure out a way to lose the rockets,
all would be good in River City.

[Dangerousdave26]

Tom's mods to the Tigercat air file also fixed a small issue with the nose gear being prone to breaking with very little stress.

[Dangerousdave26]

then, if I could figure out a way to lose the rockets,
all would be good in River City.

Turn off the lights. They only show up when the lights are on.

[smilo]

Turn off the lights. They only show up when the lights are on.

thanks Dave,
I guess I should have said,
lose the rockets permanently.

[fsafranek]

I remember a couple of years back, someone made textures for the Tigercat in a USAAC natural metal finish, but I think those textures were lost in the Avsim crash. Needless to say, I'll be looking forward to your. Also, I can't answer your FDE question, since I don't have any of those updates you're referring to.
Look here: http://www.fsupgrade.com/fsu_alphasim.html
:ernae:

[aeromed202]

I couldn't quite locate the updated flight dynamics mentioned earlier. Turns out I had done something with them before. Try out these sections. The bouncing is gone, it's a little more nimble, but there is no visual strut compression so you have to put up with the nose gear partially dissapearing into the tarmac on braking. I didn't dare go further because the bouncing would come back. Didn't touch engine performance. The flight tuning section is new, but the rest are over-writes.

[weight_and_balance]
// ACM V2.3
max_gross_weight = 25720
empty_weight = 16270
reference_datum_position = 0, 0, 0
empty_weight_CG_position = -0.14, 0, 0
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 19548
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 9801
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 49214
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 0
max_number_of_stations = 1
station_load.0 = 200.000000, 2.320000, 0.000000, 1.780000, Station 1
[contact_points]
static_pitch = 3.488
static_cg_height = 7.259
max_number_of_points = 7
point.0 = 1.000, 13.917, 0.000, -8.333, 1800.000, 0.000, 1.050, 40.000, 0.290, 6.500, 0.700, 6.000, 4.000, 0.000, 170.000, 225.000
point.1 = 1.000, -1.500, -9.750, -7.660, 2000.000, 1.000, 1.500, 0.000, 0.677, 2.500, 0.600, 7.000, 5.000, 2.000, 170.000, 225.000
point.2 = 1.000, -1.500, 9.750, -7.6600, 2000.000, 2.000, 1.500, 0.000, 0.677, 2.500, 0.600, 5.000, 7.000, 3.000, 170.000, 225.000
point.3 = 2.000, 0.000, -25.600, 3.300, 1500.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 5.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.4 = 2.000, 0.000, 25.600, 3.330, 1500.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 6.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.5 = 2.000, -28.483, 0.000, -1.353, 1500.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 9.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.6 = 2.000, 15.574, 0.000, -1.629, 1500.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4.000, 0.000, 0.000
gear_system_type= 1
[Flaps.0]
type= 1
span-outboard= 0.500
extending-time= 5.000
system_type= 0
damaging-speed= 0.000
blowout-speed= 0.000
lift_scalar= 0.800
drag_scalar= 0.600
pitch_scalar= -0.100
flaps-position.0= 0.000, 0.000
flaps-position.1= 10.000, 0.000
flaps-position.2= 20.000, 0.000
flaps-position.3= 30.000, 0.000
flaps-position.4= 40.000, 0.000

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar=1.100
pitch_stability=0.950
roll_stability=0.850
yaw_stability=0.800
parasite_drag_scalar=1.000
induced_drag_scalar=1.000
elevator_effectiveness=0.5800
aileron_effectiveness=1.000
rudder_effectiveness=0.900
elevator_trim_effectiveness=1.000
aileron_trim_effectiveness=1.000
rudder_trim_effectiveness=1.000
p_factor_on_yaw=0.0

[Milton Shupe]

OT: I think we definitely need a new F7F. I have been thinking about doing another SOH group project for FS2004 with the F7F as the target. If there is interest, and once we get the AT-11 done, I will consider this project.

I do not want to hi-jack this thread so if there is interest, please start another.

[Sundog]

Look here: http://www.fsupgrade.com/fsu_alphasim.html
:ernae:

Those are them. Thanks! :)

[expat]

Sure like this one:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Grumman-F7F-3N-Tigercat/1257294/L/

[Willy]

OT: I think we definitely need a new F7F. I have been thinking about doing another SOH group project for FS2004 with the F7F as the target. If there is interest, and once we get the AT-11 done, I will consider this project.

I do not want to hi-jack this thread so if there is interest, please start another.

Be still my heart! A new Tigercat would be most appreciated.

[norab]

Here is a little more color HTH

[norab]

one more

[OBIO]

if I could get a bare metal version, without insignia,
I would be a happy camper.


Smilo

As I work on the paint template, I am doing it up in bare metal (though I do have the modern style US insignia on it). I can do up a plane bare metal job with ease. And now that the MDL file has been tweaked to support full reflective texturing, the TIgercat looks good in polished aluminum.

OBIO

[Willy]

I have recollection that Willy did a paint and airfile for this plane at some point or another. One of the issues with the stock cfg file was the nose gear which had a tendency to get into a set of oscillations and fail.

What I've got is a paint that removed all the insignia from the F7F leaving it a plain dark blue. Just the thing for sneaking about.

The flight model I use is the stock one but with some mods to the nose gear suggested to me by Milton to fix the flimsy nose gear that I kept breaking on landings.

[falcon409]

As is usually the case, a lot of aircraft go unnoticed by me unless a thread like this one pops up and then it's like. . ."oh yea, the F-7 Tigercat" wish I had one for FSX, lol.

Then I go out trying to find one and end up with what you see here. This was supposed to be FSX ready, but obviously it isn't. I know this is the FS9 forum, but just for grins, does anyone else have or did have this problem?

[stansdds]

OT: I think we definitely need a new F7F. I have been thinking about doing another SOH group project for FS2004 with the F7F as the target. If there is interest, and once we get the AT-11 done, I will consider this project.

I do not want to hi-jack this thread so if there is interest, please start another.

I would be interested in one that works well in FSX. The A-26 ported over "ok", so how about a FS9/FSX version of the Tigercat?

[expat]

Was flying her last night in FSX with no problems at all. None. FSX/SP2/Acceleration.

Solution is to swap out the gauges per this SOH thread some time ago:

http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:FdjKKBn33yEJ:www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D3220+fsx+alphasim+tigercat&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk


expat

[expat]

Don't think I have tried this but there is this route too via flightsim.com:

FSX - FSX Warbirds FSX Marines F-7 Tigercat VMP-254
[ Download (http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=143311) | View (http://www.flightsim.com/zview.php?cm=list&fid=143311) ]
Name: f-7tigercatvmp-254.zip (http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=143311) Size: 12,662,470 Date: 02-02-2010 Downloads: 1,529
http://www.flightsim.com/p/f-7tigercatvmp-254.gif http://www.flightsim.com/wbicons/fcq1.gif FSX Marines F-7 Tigercat VMP-254. This is Alphasim's Grumman F-7 Tigercat modified for Microsoft Flight Simulator X. The Grumman F7 Tigercat was the first twin-engined fighter aircraft design to enter service with the United States Navy. Designed for the new Midway-class aircraft carriers, the aircraft were too large to operate from earlier decks. Although delivered to United States Marine Corps (USMC) combat units before the end of World War II, this aircraft served with the VMP 254 Marine Photo Reconnaissance. The Marine unit VMP-254 was commissioned in December, 1946 at MCAS El Toro under the 1st MAW. It was assigned the F-7 Tigercats and later F4F-5P Corsairs, but soon became a paper squadron due to the reduction in forces after WW II. It was decommissioned in December, 1949 and all its assets transferred to 1st MAW HEDRON-1. This aircraft includes a panel by Mel Mutter. Aircraft package includes history and pictures of the actual aircraft and VMP squadron. Textures by Mark Rooks of RDG Aircraft.

[falcon409]

Ok, if you'll read my post back on the previous page, you'll see what you get if you load this airplane by Mark Rooks. It is NOT FSX ready.:salute:

[expat]

Hmm, OK, not the first or last time probably either.

Sorry about that. I will check when back home my files and either give you the source or happy to send my panel to you Ed.

Have a good weekend.

expat

[fliger747]

The good news is that Milton Shupe is begining a F7F-1 project.

The issue with the nose gear on the Alpha model submerging has to do with the amount of animation movement matching the movement specified in the cfg. Been a while since I worked with this, but it would appear that the original animation did not have enough range of motion and was too stiff, making breakage quite easy. Increasing the range in the cfg takes away some of the too stiff problem, but causes a mismatch with the visual model

T

[falcon409]

I'm getting closer. After OBIO made a few suggestions, I found that the panel.cfg file was calling the wrong texture for the VC. I got that corrected as well as the viewpoint (which was somewhere behind the seat). Now I've redone the panel bitmap for the VC and rearranged the gauges to match. Just tweaking all that a bit more as well as enlarging and cleaning up the main textures. It will be some time before Milton's takes flight and with the work I'm putting into the AS version. . .it'll do just fine until then.
Flip the first and the last shot and you'll have a progression from initial look to the WIP VC. I added switches to the left side and am just adding the lables and it should be complete.

[falcon409]

. . . .and the finished panel. This should hold me for now!!:salute:

[Cees Donker]

That looks good!

:wavey:

Cees

[falcon409]

That looks good!
Cees
Thanks Cees!!:salute:

[Cees Donker]

falcon,

Will you upload this panel?

:jump:

Cees