Well...I feel like a jack

[Rami]

To all,

I feel so ashamed! I've been pressing Bruno for an updated Fulmar for the Pedestal campaign, and then I come across this in my research...

"The planners assigned all three available large aircraft carriers in support of the operation. Sea Hurricanes and Martlets replaced all obsolete Fulmar fighters. Their carriers would be positioned inside the destroyer screen and in the convoy's rear; the carrier aircraft would be employed for attacking the Italian surface ships based at Messina, Tarent, and Naples in case they posed a threat to the convoy."

Sorry, Bruno. I'll make sure she gets plenty of use anyway. ;)

[Talon]

Rami,I also saw that but several other sites said "Most Fulmars were replaced by Martlets and Sea Hurricanes but not all".I'll do more research.


Talon

[PSULLYKEYS]

The Wikapedia source (not always the best, but a start) indicates that 809 sq equipped with fulmars were aboard the Victorious until November 1942.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Victorious_%28R38%29#Squadrons_and_aircraft.5B 3.5D.5B21.5D

I'll keep looking.:kilroy:

[Collin]

I only came across the 6 Martlets II's in A flight 806 sqd aboard the Indomitable, they claimed 4 kills.

Squadrons

806 A flight Marlet II 6 aircraft. Indomitable.
809 Fulmars. Victorious
880 Sea Hurricane 1b. Indomitable.
827 Albacores. Indomitable.
801 Sea Hurricanes. Eagle. Which then landed on Victorious after Eagle was sunk.
807 Sea Hurricanes, Eagle and Argus. and Seafire's IIc, Furious.
880 Sea Hurricanes Indomitable.
800 Sea hurricanes Indomitable.
796 Albacores 6 aircraft Indomitable.
832 Albacores Victorious.
817 Albacores Victorious.
885 Sea Hurricanes (6) Victorious.
884 Fulmars (6) Victorious.
813 Sea Hurricanes Eagle, lost with ship.
823 Albacores, Furious.
804 Sea Hurricanes, Furious.

The sqdns can have different flights on different ships and have different aircraft, like 807.
The sqdns listed for Furious and Argus were the normal complement and took part in the defence of the convoy until the ships returned to Gibraltar.

830 Swordfish (6) Malta based.


Does that help?

regards Collin:ernae:

[Collin]

So by date the aircraft availability...

10th-midday 11th

Sea Hurricanes
Seafire 2's
Martlet
Fulmar

Albacores

Midday 11th - 1900 12th

Sea Hurricanes
Marlets
Fulmar

Albacores

Midday'ish 13th - 15th

Spitfires (limited fuel).
Swordfish.

regards Collin:ernae:

[hewman100]

There's one or two photos out there of Fulmars on deck during 'Pedestal'.

[Rami]

To all,

Thanks, I stand corrected. At least I got to throw Martlets into the mix. :mixedsmi:

And from Malta, were Beaufighters available, par chance?

[Collin]

To all,

Thanks, I stand corrected. At least I got to throw Martlets into the mix. :mixedsmi:

And from Malta, were Beaufighters available, par chance?

Beau's were available but only for emergencies, fuel was limited to spits for recce and aerial protection and swordfish for anti-sub/shipping strikes against any supposed threat to the convoy.

C

[mariereid]

It just goes to show us how much work goes into these projects. Seems like all the research a fella does just leads to more research. That is just one of many, many steps it takes to put together great missions, aircraft, ships, etc. It's amazing stuff! Thanks to the fine work of Rami and all the rest of the authors, we can go back in time and get a feeling of how it was. Once again, many thank yous, guys, for all you have done and continue to do for us.:medals::ernae:

[Brunosk]

Keep searching Rami, I am positive that Fulmars were involved indeed !

[PSULLYKEYS]

Here's photographic proof, the wing fold shows definately a Fulmar. The caption read "three fleet carriers during Operation Pedestal":medals:

[Discus]

This is what I´ve found in a link that I´ve added to my "research" subfolder in my Favorites folder:


The squadron formed as a fighter squadron at Worthy Down in February 1940 with 8 Skua and 4 Rocs.

In May 1940 the squadron took part in bombing attacks on Bergen, Norway, and subsequently provided cover during the Dunkirk evacuations at the end of the month.
Subsequently with Fulmar replacing the Rocs, the squadron embarked on HMS Illustrious for Bermuda, and after returning to the UK re-embarked for the Mediterranean, with additional Sea Gladiators. Over the next few months the squadron shot down 20 enremy aircraft.
In February 1941 the squadron provided defence for Crete, and then embarked on HMS Formidable for further operations in the Mediterranean. The squadron only dis-emabarking at Aboukir and Idku when the ship was badly damaged by enemy bombing in May 1941.
The squadron was then equipped with RAF Hurricanes and in August became part of the Royal Navy Fighter Squadron in the Western Desert.
In February 1942 after the disbandment of the joint unit the squadron was re-equipped with 12 Fulmars for transfer to Ratmalana, Ceylon. In May 1942, A flight embarked on HMS Indomitable with Martlet IIs and B Flight embarked on Illustrious with Fulmars. When HMS Indomitable was damaged on 12 August 1942 in Operation Pedestal to Malta, A flight disbanded on the ship's return to the UK.

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Squadrons/806.html

Discus

[sjrichardson]

There's a set of 1/72 scale model aircraft decals for Operation Pedestal which includes a Fulmar from 809 Sq. See profile in this link to the model suppliers Hannants:

http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=DPC72002

Hope this helps.

Simon.

[hewman100]

I believe a couple of Beaus were sent out as cover for the Ohio.

[Discus]

From July 1942 with HMS Victorious in the Mediterranean, the squadron accounted for 2 enemy aircraft, but lost 3 of its own during Operation Pedestal. The squadron subsequently returned home for army cooperation training at Sawbridgeworth. In October 1943 the squadron re-embarked on HMS Victorious and was involved in tactical reconnaissance during the North African landings, and following re-equipping with Seafire IIc’s to provide cover for the Salerno landings.


Commanding Officers and Squadron Personnel
L/C SWD Colls, RN Jan 1941-July 1941
L/C VC Grenfell, DSO, RN July 1941-Oct 1941
L/C EG Savage, DSC, RN Oct 1941-Aug 1942
Aircraft

Fulmar I Jan 1940-Mar 1943
Spitfire Va March 1943-June 1943
http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Squadrons/809.html

I hope this helps.

Cheers, Discus :salute:

[Ravenna]

Just been re-reading Richard Woodman's "Malta Convoys 1940-1943". He cites FAA records for squadrons attached to the Pedestal carriers as per Collin's posts (above). This might also be useful: The carrier workup exercise (operation BERSERK) established the ships' intended tactical roles, with Victorious, having the higher proportion of Fulmars,providing low altitude air cover while Indomitable and Eagle, with Sea Hurricanes and Martlets, would give the convoy high cover.
What ships do you propose to use for do you propose to use for the fleet oiler "Brown Ranger" , the auxiliary oiler "Dingldale" and the tug "Salvonia"?
BTW, Collin's "Ohio" is looking GREAT!:applause:

[Moparmike]

test reply

[Rami]

Ravenna,

I decided not to add any additional oilers other than the Ohio, not because I'm trying to be neglectful or rude, but because I am mindful that having over forty ships in a mission may make it nearly impossible to fly it for some. I've had to keep the amount of ships at a limit of forty-two, especially since I'm using a handful of Usio's ships in addition to Groundcrew and CG shipyard.

Here's a list of what I am using...

"name_string.34"=Ithuriel
"name_string.35"=Penn
"name_string.36"=Ashanti
"name_string.37"=Ledbury
"name_string.38"=Pathfinder
"name_string.39"=Badsworth
"name_string.40"=Cairo
"name_string.41"=Phoebe
"name_string.42"=Sirius
"name_string.43"=Nigeria
"name_string.44"=Kenya
"name_string.45"=Manchester
"name_string.46"=Bramham
"name_string.47"=Zetland
"name_string.48"=Bicester
"name_string.49"=Tartar
"name_string.50"=Nelson
"name_string.51"=Rodney
"name_string.52"=Charybdis
"name_string.53"=Intrepid
"name_string.54"=Icarus
"name_string.55"=Matchless
"name_string.56"=Fury
"name_string.57"=Derwent
"name_string.58"=Foresight
"name_string.59"=MV Clan Ferguson
"name_string.60"=MV Port Chalmers
"name_string.61"=SS Ohio
"name_string.62"=MV Glenorchy
"name_string.63"=MV Waimarama
"name_string.64"=MV Brisbane Star
"name_string.65"=MV Deucalion
"name_string.66"=MV Empire Hope
"name_string.67"=MV Dorset
"name_string.68"=MV Rochester Castle
"name_string.69"=MV Wairangi
"name_string.70"=MV Melbourne Star
"name_string.71"=Indomitable
"name_string.72"=Victorius
"name_string.73"=SS Almeria Lykes
"name_string.74"=SS Santa Elisa