Spitfire Mk.Vb question for flightmodel gurus

[huub vink]

Bruno Escaravage's Spitfire is one of the best looking Spitfires I have ever seen. One major problem however, it is done for CFS2. The flightmodel is typical CFS2; nose heavy and when you lower the flaps or undercarriage it fells like you put the hand brakes on.

Is there a flightmodel guru, which can make a FS2004 flightmodel for this beautiful model, like one was done for Bruno´s Mosquito?

Thanks for taking it in consideration!

Huub

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/Huub_Vink/Beatrix_a2.jpg

[Z-claudius24]

Hi,

What is the aka of Bruno Escaravage
I don't find this name in the list at the downloads page.....
Edited:
Ok ... brunosk :)

[OBIO]

He actually has two...his older one and his newer one:

brunosk

bsk

Lots of top notch stuff for sure!

OBIO

[fleurdelys]

Bonjour Huub,

Unfortunately, I'm no flight guru and have had to settle for a partial transplant if I remember correctly... :kilroy:


I seem to remember that it still shows a slight tendency for being nose heavy but nothing that trimming can't take care of.
Which is probably better than nothing but not as good as the right air file, I agree...
I would second your request without hesitation.

However, I can appreciate a very nice skin when I see one and your Princess Beatrix fits the bill to a "T" :icon_lol:

Where can we download this skin ?

Cheers,

Fleurdelys

[Henry]

any mossie builder is a great fellow
and Bruno is one of my heroes
im in!
lol
H:guinness:

[Milton Shupe]

In FS2004, both CFS2 and FS2002 FM's have the same issue. FS2004 changes are required because the wing twist and incidence characteristics defined in the cfg were removed from the FD engine. As a result port overs became nose heavy. That had to be corrected in table 404.

Also, speeds were affected. All this was documented "back then" and there were several posts that outlined procedures to convert the air files.

I can post them if you are interested.

EDIT: Here is one of the posts (Sorry I did not capture the author of this)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the one for FS2002 is generally compatible, but it would be best to convert the FDE to FS2004 for better flyablility:

DETAILS OF THE FS2004 FDE CONVERSION

Load the plane at least once into FS2004 first, to get the new sections of the aircraft.cfg file added.

1. Using AirEd (http://members.dsl-only.net/~eagle/), open the AIR file in the default FS2002 737-400 folder. Copy the Section 1534 from there (or any other plane with that section) by right clicking on the "1534 button" and choosing Copy to Clipboard. Then open your plane's AIR file and right click on any button - choose Add to Airfile (can't remember exact wording).

2. Click on the 1534 button to open the section, and click on any line that isn't 0.00. Edit the number to 0.00, and then press Enter. Do this for any non-zero line. This fixes the nose heavy trim.

3. Now leave AirEd running and open the plane's aircraft.cfg file by double clicking it. Go down to the Aircraft Geometry section and write down the values for wing_incidence and wing_twist. Now calculate the number: wing_incidence + wing_twist/2 divided by 57.3.

Example: wing_incidence = 5, wing_twist = -2

5 + -2/2 / 57.3 = 5 + -1 / 57.3 = 4/57.3 = 0.0698 (0.07).

4. Now back in AirEd click on the 404 button. A graph will open up. Press the right arrow key twice to put you on the third data point (we will ignore the first two and last two data points). Now press the x key. A number to edit will pop up. We need to subtract the number we calculated in #3 from this number (since this data point is negative, we add the number to it - example: data point = -.16, so -.16 + -0.07 = -0.23). Press enter. Then press the right arrow and x keys to bring up the next data point. Once the data points become positive (or zero) you will need to subtract the value instead. Continue this process until the antipenultimate point is reached (the third from the last) - you don't need to change the last two points. This fixes the pitch (too nose-up).

5. Now click on the 1101 button, and look for the Drag section. At the top of that section is Zero Lift drag. Reduce this value by a first guess of 16-19%, based on how much too slow the plane is in FS2004 vs FS2002 in mid level cruise at middle weights. We will fine tune this value later to fix the drag (plane is too slow).

6. Save the file in AirEd, and quit the program.

7. Now, back to the aircraft.cfg file we opened in step 3 (or double click it again). Go down to the Piston Engine section and increase the critical_altitude value by about 3500 ft (i.e. change 5000 ft to 8500 ft). You can fine tune this number by checking in FS2002 during a climb at what altitude the MAP starts to drop. Change this variable's value until it is the same in FS2004. This fixes the problem of piston planes losing power at too low an altitude (piston only).

8. In the Aircraft Geometry section, change the wing_pos_apex_lon value to wing_root_chord/4. Example: if wing_root_chord = 8.6, then set wing_pos_apex_lon to 2.15. This fixes the position of the CG "datum" (black and white circle) in the Fuel and Payload diagram.

9. In the General Engine section, change the min_throttle_limit to around 0.1. This will fix the piston engines dying at idle (piston only).

10. Edit the station load lines of the Weight and Balance section to change to the new FS2004 format. See one of my update files for the new format. It's best if you leave the default weights to be under the MTOW when at full fuel, and in balance (i.e. equal weight ahead and behind the center of gravity).

11. Check the new max_gross_weight line and make sure it matches with what it should be.

12. Include details of this new weight and balance in the checklist file (if any) - see my new CV-340 checklist file for details.

13. Flight testing. Check the following:

a. Cruise at a mid level (12-17,000 ft) and check the cruise speeds vs when the plane is flown in FS2002. Vary the Zero Lift Drag number in AirEd to fine tune this number.

b. Check the takeoff behavior, and make sure that you change the listed trim setting for takeoff in the Reference file, if necessary (I had to change one, out of 5 so far). The takeoff trim value should give a smooth takeoff at the proper rotation speed as given in the Reference file, and minimum elevator force needed for the takeoff and initial climb (but not too nose up on final climb).

c. Check the landing behavior, and make sure with an AP landing (set on APR mode) that you don't run out of trim before touchdown (the plane will nose into the ground). Also check the braking behavior - you should be able to stop within the distance usually described in the Reference file. In any case, check the landing distance in FS2002 and FS2004. If different, change the toe_brake_scalar (?) in the new braking section of the aircraft.cfg file until it's the same. I had to increase most of mine in the larger aircraft.

That's it!

8/2003

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Hmmm - has anyone ever tried to "downgrade" it to a Mk.I and apply the very gracious FDEs of the WoP Spit?

[huub vink]

Hmmm - has anyone ever tried to "downgrade" it to a Mk.I and apply the very gracious FDEs of the WoP Spit?

I tried to apply the flightmodel from the AH/JF Spitfire Mk.V but this wasn't a real success.


any mossie builder is a great fellow
and Bruno is one of my heroes
im in!
lol
H:guinness:

Thanks Henry, I knew you would ;)


In FS2004, both CFS2 and FS2002 FM's have the same issue. FS2004 changes are required because the wing twist and incidence characteristics defined in the cfg were removed from the FD engine. As a result port overs became nose heavy. That had to be corrected in table 404.

Also, speeds were affected. All this was documented "back then" and there were several posts that outlined procedures to convert the air files.

I can post them if you are interested.

Thanks Milton, very useful I have saved it for future use.


Where can we download this skin ?

Cheers,

Fleurdelys

Not yet Fleurdelys. RobH was so kind to share his more than excellent paintkit with me. So most of what you see is actually done by him. Therefor I want at least to add a "personal touch" like weathering. This will result in a small package with several 322 sqn skins. Prinses (and not Princess) Beatrix is one of them. 322 squadron was one of the 3 Dutch squadrons active in the RAF. There was also 3 Dutch squadrons active in the RAAF who took part of the actions in the pacific.
The orange triangle was the Dutch national marking in this period.

I hardly do any RAF repaints as the Royal Air Force painted most of their aircrafts in standard patterns. Prinses Beatrix is a not very exiting exemption on this rule as it was painted in a reversed scheme B.

Cheers,
Huub

Below: Spitfire Mk.Vb BM354 VL-A Malang, later re-named in De Kooy
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/Huub_Vink/Malang_s2.jpg

[Wild Bill Kelso]

She looks absolutely grandioos, Huub! :applause:
Looking foreward to it!

How could I miss Bruno's Mk. V up to now?
Just did a quick&dirty adaption to get her flying:
Added model and textures to the WoP Mk. I: Now she's hovering some 2 ft above the ground, but flies like a dream!
Not the performance of the Mk. V's Merlin 45 of course, but more than sufficient for civil use. I don't assume to encounter a competition with a Bf-109 Friedrich... :icon_lol:

Groeten, :wavey:
Markus.

[Z-claudius24]

Hi,

Thank's Milton. :ernae:
Had already play with some parameters in the airfile but the results were far to be good.
When time allow :) I will apply the procedure contained in your message and see what happend.

[Flyboy208]

Looks good to me Huub, what a coincidence, I just put together a Dutch flown Spitfire MK.XIV .... see my post on this same page.

Cheers! Mike :wavey:

[Henry]

just taking a look at the original fd's
they are way off
the hp is short and the wep is even less
needs a major overhaul
will get back
Great model though
thanks for the HU Huub
H

[huub vink]

Looks good to me Huub, what a coincidence, I just put together a Dutch flown Spitfire MK.XIV .... see my post on this same page.

Cheers! Mike :wavey:

I had seen it Mike. Nice! A weird thing about 322 squadron is that they didn't score any air-to-air kill. However most individual pilots had one or more kill in the period before they joined this squadron. I guess this was caused by the large amount of convoy escorts, reconaissance and ground support missions this squadron flew. However the squadron was very successful against V-1 flying bombs. Flying Officer R.F Burgwal scored 22 kills against the V-1 before he when missing on August 12 1944, during a escort mission over Orléans. A fellow squadron mate Flight Lieutenant J.L. Plesman accounted for 12.

322 squadron is now part of the RNAF and flies F-16s from Leeuwarden AB.


just taking a look at the original fd's
they are way off
the hp is short and the wep is even less
needs a major overhaul
will get back
Great model though
thanks for the HU Huub
H

Thanks H, I knew I could count on you!

Huub

[Cees Donker]

You can't have too many Spits! Great work as usual Huub!

:ernae:

Cees