A question about installing scenery objects....

[Navy Chief]

Guy Diotte creates some great static aircraft for use with scenery.

I am confused about how/where to install them though.

In his directions, it says to install them into the Addon Scenery/Scenery folder?

But when I try to do that, it doesn't allow me to add it.

Can someone please clarify this for me?

Thanks.

NC

[IanP]

Addon Scenery is already added to your database by default, so you shouldn't need to add it again.

However, you'll need to place the objects using SBuilder, ADE, Instant Scenery or something to a scenery before you'll see anything.

[falcon409]

I have almost all of Guy's static aircraft. Inside the Addon Scenery folder I made up another one for "Static Aircraft" and inside that a folder for "scenery" and "texture", then as I downloaded his planes I just separated them as needed to their correct folders (bgl's and txt files with the scenery and textures into the texture folder). After that I loaded up FSX, activated the "Static Aircraft" library folder in the scenery library and I was all set.

As Ian mentions though, actually placing the aircraft will require an object placement program like Instant Scenery

[Navy Chief]

I have almost all of Guy's static aircraft. Inside the Addon Scenery folder I made up another one for "Static Aircraft" and inside that a folder for "scenery" and "texture", then as I downloaded his planes I just separated them as needed to their correct folders (bgl's and txt files with the scenery and textures into the texture folder).

Thanks! But in addition to the Scenery/Texture folders, there are some .MDL files. Where do I install them????

NC

[falcon409]

In the scenery folder as well. Here's a screen of the interior of my scenery folder:

[IanP]

if you have scenery libraries (.bgl files), you shouldn't need the .mdl files. If there are only .mdl files, put them in the /scenery folder, but you won't be able to place them using Instant Scenery, I don't think... ADE will place .mdl files directly, but I'm not sure what else will.

[falcon409]

His aircraft come with both mdl's and bgl's. I wasn't sure if I needed the mdl files, that's why I included them.

[IanP]

Library bgl files are made up of a number of .mdl files compiled together. However some applications such as ADE can directly place the mdl file as well. Instant Scenery couldn't when I used to use it, but may have been patched since.

One advantage of being able to place mdl files directly is that in theory, it means you can place a user aircraft as a static object. Whether you'd want to or not is a matter of opinion. :)

[GypsyBaron]

MDL files are used to create nthe BGL files. A placement tool
requires a MDL file and the placement lat/lon/alt info.

I suggest you read a tutorial on creating scenery BGL files
so that you can place those scenery objects at locations
of your preference. That is where the MDL files come into play. A BGL file places the model wherever the creator of
the BGL wanted to place it. It is then a fixed location.

To move that object to another location you need to use
the MDL file with an object placement tool.

Paul

[falcon409]

MDL files are used to create nthe BGL files. A placement tool
requires a MDL file and the placement lat/lon/alt info.

I suggest you read a tutorial on creating scenery BGL files
so that you can place those scenery objects at locations
of your preference. That is where the MDL files come into play. A BGL file places the model wherever the creator of
the BGL wanted to place it. It is then a fixed location.

To move that object to another location you need to use
the MDL file with an object placement tool.

Paul

Maybe I'm missing what you're saying Gypsybaron. The first part, "mdl files are used to create bgl files", yep, very true, I've made some simple 3D objects in FSDS as mdl files and then converted those to bgl files to use as scenery objects.

Now by placement tool, I'm assuming you mean one like Instant Scenery, that is a placement tool. If so, then I would have to say, no, it doesn't require the mdl file any longer. Aside from the ones listed in that one image I posted at the beginning I don't have mdl files in any other scenery object libraries.

Once you have an object placement tool such as Instant Scenery, the mdl files job is done. All the placement tool requires is the bgl file. The bgl file is placed to a set of coordinates by the individual using the placement tool, the coordinates are not hardcoded into the bgl file by the original creator as you seem to be suggesting. If that were true, Object placement tools such as Instant Scenery would be useless since we could only place a bgl file where the original creator of that object wanted it placed by virtue of the lat/long he built into it.

If I'm not understanding your idea of a placement tool, please correct me.

[IanP]

If you use the SDK placement tool, you do hardcode the position of an object, but not using a packacge such as ADE, Instant Scenery, Whisplacer, SBuilderX, etc...

And you can place an mdl directly, as I said before, but it's normally easier to corral them into library bgl files for simplicity. I placed one of Dan Dunn's Hurricanes the other day directly as an mdl file - it didn't work very well (half way underground and the prop was a solid disk) but it did work. If the mdl was constructed with the intention of using it as a scenery object, it would work as well calling it directly as an mdl file as it would pulling the mdl out of a bgl library.

...er... did that make any sense whatsoever?

[GypsyBaron]

Maybe I'm missing what you're saying Gypsybaron. The first part, "mdl files are used to create bgl files", yep, very true, I've made some simple 3D objects in FSDS as mdl files and then converted those to bgl files to use as scenery objects.

Now by placement tool, I'm assuming you mean one like Instant Scenery, that is a placement tool. If so, then I would have to say, no, it doesn't require the mdl file any longer. Aside from the ones listed in that one image I posted at the beginning I don't have mdl files in any other scenery object libraries.

I've never used Instant Scenery however any tool that places scenery
is going to be creating a NEW BGL that contains the NEW
location parameters.

The tool may make use of GUID's which reference MDL's
and thus may seem to the user that no MDL file is used.



Once you have an object placement tool such as Instant Scenery, the mdl files job is done. All the placement tool requires is the bgl file. The bgl file is placed to a set of coordinates by the individual using the placement tool, the coordinates are not hardcoded into the bgl file by the original creator as you seem to be suggesting. If that were true, Object placement tools such as Instant Scenery would be useless since we could only place a bgl file where the original creator of that object wanted it placed by virtue of the lat/long he built into it.
As I indicated above, I believe that if any placement tool is using
a BGL as input, it is then decompiling that BGL, inserting NEW
location parameters and then creating a NEW BGL.

The location information MUST be hardcoded into the BGL that
is placed in a "scenery" folder, otherwise FSX ( of FS9 ) would
not know where to put the objects(s).

Here is an example of the intermediate stage of object placement
using ADE. It is in the XML file:

<SceneryObject
lat="53.5084943845868"
lon="8.05175319314003"
alt="0.0M"
altitudeIsAgl="TRUE"
pitch="0"
bank="0"
heading="112.988891601563"
imageComplexity="VERY_SPARSE">
<LibraryObject
name="{88d34df2-94ba-4068-a5a0-59609aeecade}"
scale="1.00"
/>
</SceneryObject>

Note the reference to the "LibraryObject". The GUID will point
to the objects MDL for insertion into the new BGL that ADE
will create to place that object at the location stated in
the XML file.

The XML file gets run through the XML2BGL utility to create
the new BGL. This process, again, may be totally transparent
to the user.

The point of the initial discusion was the need/use of the
MDL file that is often included in addon scenery. It is there
for the user to reposition the object using an approach like the XML to BGL tools.

If a tool like RWY12 is used the objects may be contained in
BGL libraries but when they are placed a new BGL is created
from information retrieved from the library BGL file. That
information would include the MDL data.

Paul

[GypsyBaron]

-SNIP-

And you can place an mdl directly, as I said before, but it's normally easier to corral them into library bgl files for simplicity. I placed one of Dan Dunn's Hurricanes the other day directly as an mdl file - it didn't work very well (half way underground and the prop was a solid disk) but it did work. If the mdl was constructed with the intention of using it as a scenery object, it would work as well calling it directly as an mdl file as it would pulling the mdl out of a bgl library.

...er... did that make any sense whatsoever?

Ian, what process or tool did you use to place that MDL file?
Was it an XML that refereced the MDL name and then
fed to an XML to BGL utility?

What was the file you placed in a "scenery" folder?

Paul

[falcon409]

. . . . .The point of the initial discusion was the need/use of the MDL file that is often included in addon scenery. It is there
for the user to reposition the object using an approach like the XML to BGL tools.
Paul
Well actually, the point of the initial discussion as initiated by Navy Chief had to do with where to put the static objects library files for Guy Diotte's aircraft objects. The mdl files only came up because Guy supplies those with his objects. Most don't and since I don't have a need for them I simply move them over to the Recycle Bin and flush them.

Now I assumed (and that's always something one should never do) that Chief was using a simple object placement utility like Instant Scenery or Easy Scenery. Since he hasn't replied yet, I don't know what he uses. But if he does use one of those two as an example, mdl files are not needed and certainly up to him to do with those as he sees fit.

The long explanation you've given. . .all very good info. . .not anything I'll use, but good info none the less, lol. Thanks for the explanation.:salute:

[Navy Chief]

......Chief was using a simple object placement utility like Instant Scenery or Easy Scenery. Since he hasn't replied yet, I don't know what he uses.

In fact, I use Instant Scenery (or, to be more precise, I ATTEMPT to use that program). I gave up trying to get SDK placement tool to show up on my drop down menu. I never DID get that to show up, even though I have SDK installed, and have done everything I can to get it to work, to no avail.

It would be so nice if I could get together with several members on here (in person) to learn more about how to do these things!

NC

[falcon409]

In fact, I use Instant Scenery (or, to be more precise, I ATTEMPT to use that program). I gave up trying to get SDK placement tool to show up on my drop down menu. I never DID get that to show up, even though I have SDK installed, and have done everything I can to get it to work, to no avail.

It would be so nice if I could get together with several members on here (in person) to learn more about how to do these things!

NC
Chief, If ya need help with Instant Scenery, let me know, I use it for everything I do scenery-wise.

[Navy Chief]

Chief, If ya need help with Instant Scenery, let me know, I use it for everything I do scenery-wise.

Appreciate the offer of assistance. My problem is, I don't use it that much to remain familiar with it. So much time passes, usually, that I have to "relearn" how to do the basics.

One thing I have never done, which I need to, is to centralize all the scenery objects, so I don't have to search for them. Also, I know that along with Instant Scenery is a program called "Library Maker". Have never used it. Is it what I could use to put all the objects in one place?

It's all so daunting at times, and I just don't have the patience!

Again, if there was a way to do a search on SOH for members who live in my area (within so many miles?). Maybe we could have a meeting now and then to share knowledge? Online communication is fine, but it'd be neat to have a "hands on" type learning session!!

NC

[falcon409]

. . . . .One thing I have never done, which I need to, is to centralize all the scenery objects, so I don't have to search for them. Also, I know that along with Instant Scenery is a program called "Library Maker". Have never used it. Is it what I could use to put all the objects in one place?

It's all so daunting at times, and I just don't have the patience!

Again, if there was a way to do a search on SOH for members who live in my area (within so many miles?). Maybe we could have a meeting now and then to share knowledge? Online communication is fine, but it'd be neat to have a "hands on" type learning session!!

NC
I understand what you're saying Chief. For the technical side of the photo real scenery work I'm trying to learn it would be great to sit down with a master and just take notes, lol.

Ok, getting all your objects in one place is pretty easy really. For instance, Guy's airplanes, I did what I mentioned above, just made a folder for them and separated the files to the folders they needed to be in.

For libraries that you download, if they come in their own folder heirarchy, you can leave them that way or make a new folder with separate folders inside for "texture" and "scenery" and use just that one for a depository, name it "Scenery objects" (or any name you want really) and just activate that one folder in the scenery library.
That's one thing to remember, whether you keep the objects in the folders they were downloaded in, or you make a new one, the folder(s) must be activated in the Scenery Library for Instant Scenery to find them.

The Library maker is simply a way to make thumbnails of the objects for use when you load a library in Instant Scenery. If you don't have thumbnails, then you have the GUID # which really will mean nothing to you. Using the Library maker for those libraries that don't have thumbnails is what that's for.

[IanP]

Ian, what process or tool did you use to place that MDL file?
Was it an XML that refereced the MDL name and then
fed to an XML to BGL utility?

What was the file you placed in a "scenery" folder?

Paul

I'm not going to go in depth with this to avoid hijacking the thread, if you want specifics, I'll send them by PM, but the tool I used was Scruffyduck's Airport Design Editor.

No XML coding or XML2BGL CMD box malarkey, I've had enough of those. I'll let Scruffyduck's coding do that in the background for me when I press "compile", these days, thanks! :d

I used to use Instant Scenery, for tiny little sceneries like IPBC and IPBB, but it was absolutely impossible to line things up using that. It's OK for little bush strips and placing "debris" (barrels, plants, benches, whatever) but not suitable at all for larger scale airports or where buildings/structures have to be placed accurately. Placing everything using ADE also allows me to place objects relative to each other, so I can see where the parking spot is while I'm placing ladders and barrels around it. It also means that it all ends up in two BGL files at the end (a "scenery" bgl and a "flatten" bgl) rather than having one for IS, one for ADE, one for the flatten, one for Fencebuilder Pro (although that one is still going to appear occasionally because it's darned useful for building fences, or more often walls in my case), etc. It's generally a lot less hassle to use ADE for what I do, rather than IS or Whisplacer.

A good example is that if I wanted to place two of the static A-10s that have just been uploaded around an existing apron at an AFB, I could have used IS. If I needed to build an apron and/or place a row of A-10s along it as a flightline, it's far easier, more accurate and less time consuming to use ADE (or one of its competitors) than one of the tools that use slewing your own aircraft to position them.

It's all down to horses for courses, as usual.

[guzler]

Is it possible to add photo scenery using ADE ? I have done a few airport mods using ADE and prefered it over Instamt scenery for the same reasons, and having seen some of the scenerys created by Falcon recently, wouldn't mind having a bash at that in the future with some local airports / microlight fields.

[IanP]

Not that I'm aware of, guzler. SBuilderX, to the best of my knowledge, is still the only package that will do photoreal ground textures.

SBuilderX, ADE and Instant Scenery all do different things and work well together, but none of them are really competing products. For simple photosceneries like a microlight field, you'll want SBuilderX for the ground textures and possibly flatten files, IS or Whisplacer or something to place objects. ADE and similar only really come into play if you want to do larger airports with taxiways, runways, etc. set up properly (e.g. for use with AI). However, Instant Scenery will not make the scenery visible to the default GPS, map or flight planner. If you want to do that, you have to make the airport (or at least its reference point) using something like ADE.

[GypsyBaron]

I'm not going to go in depth with this to avoid hijacking the thread, if you want specifics, I'll send them by PM, but the tool I used was Scruffyduck's Airport Design Editor.

-SNIP-

Ahh...that answers my question. The "mdl" file was converted
and placed as a BGL. That is what I was saying in my
prior posts. The mdl file is not placed AS a mdl file.
It becomes a BGL with location data through the use of
a placement tool such as IS, ADE or Whisplacer.

Paul

[IanP]

The mdl file was placed as an mdl file, called by the bgl file, Paul.

A library bgl is just a collection of mdl files. They, or an individual mdl file are called in exactly the same way that a user aircraft or any other model is. All a scenery bgl file does is tells FSX where to place the model, at what altitude, scale, position and orientation. It doesn't actually contain the models themselves in any way. You have to have either the mdl files themselves, or a library bgl containing the mdl files, installed and active to see them.

[scott967b]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, in FSX scenery objects are defined as .mdl files with (optionally) texture bitmaps. The .mdl must be compiled into a bgl file. Separately, it is necessary to write "placement" code that locates the object within the FSX world.

If the .mdl file and placement code are in different bgl files, the .mdl is considered to be a global library, and can be placed anywhere in the world by any placement code bgl.

If the .mdl file and placement code are placed in the same bgl, the .mdl is considered "locked" to that bgl.

ADE does not create global libraries, but can place objects from existing libraries using the library object manager. Note that FS9 global libraries can be used as well as FSX ones. Alternatively, the .mdl can be included and placed within the ADE project to create a locked mdl. Only FSX .mdls can be used this way.

LibraryCreatorXML is nice tool for creation of global libraries from .mdl files.

scott s.
.