OT Red Arrows [Archive]

Seaking055

November 12th, 2009, 17:02

I had no idea where to post this one, I'm sure all you guys across the pond in the UK already know about
this one, but just in case there is someone else who has not heard, the Red Arrows have their first
female pilot.............good for her

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1227250/Just-boys-Red-Arrows-display-team-unveils-Flt-Lt-Kirsty-Moore-woman-pilot.html

peter12213

November 13th, 2009, 07:17

Gutted here lol it should be a male only club I say, whats next the pink arrows?

Chacha

November 13th, 2009, 11:10

Gutted here lol it should be a male only club I say, whats next the pink arrows?

LOL.... :icon_lol:

http://sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=25885

Dougie

November 13th, 2009, 11:37

Heard about this a good few months back.
I think it's rather cool. :wiggle:

peter12213

November 13th, 2009, 18:06

Well it would be if she was nice looking but she's not, she's ugly and ginger loool !!!

Rich

November 13th, 2009, 19:23

This may have some effect on your application to lead the Reds next year

Well it would be if she was nice looking but she's not, she's ugly and ginger loool !!!

peter12213

November 13th, 2009, 20:32

LMAO true mate!

VaporZ

November 14th, 2009, 00:45

Personnally I prefer Commandant Virginie Guyot, ex combat proven Mirage F-1CR pilot and now "Athos 4" on the French Air Force Patrouille de
France ( PAF ).

It is also confirmed she will be LEADER ( Athos 1 ) of the PAF for 3 years
from the 2010 season.
:engel016:
VaporZ

Ian Warren

November 14th, 2009, 05:29

Dang ! Good on Kirsty , Took a KIWI , Hmm to you guys a New Zealander to get the Red Arrows were it is today , now we need YOUR help , due to the proud leaders of this back water , our air force has some what been deleted partly due a .... um wont go there ... , please make a transfer . Ms Moore and Join the RNZAF , :running::medals:<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

jmig

November 14th, 2009, 06:00

Gutted here lol it should be a male only club I say, whats next the pink arrows?

Young man, your attitude is surprisingly last century. I would think that someone your age would have a better attitude concerning the abilities of women to perform in aviation.

USAF and Navy pilots (and I am sure other countries' armed forces) have proven the inability of a woman to perform in combat was an ignorant myth. As a member of the RAF, I would think you would be proud of her. Weekly she helps demonstrate to thousands through-out the world the flying skills of the RAF.

IanP

November 14th, 2009, 07:06

I'm sure the Russian all-female units that were amongst the top scoring tankbusters in IL-2s might have something to say about Peter's statements too. :173go1::d

GBrutus

November 14th, 2009, 13:43

I'm sure the Russian all-female units that were amongst the top scoring tankbusters in IL-2s might have something to say about Peter's statements too. :173go1::d

I'd be all for having some all-female Russian units in the RAF...

Matt Wynn

November 14th, 2009, 14:19

let a guy from a male only unit chip in here.... females in the air force as Reds yes... ok it's been done and is acceptable i have no qualms, i just hope they don't let her be in charge of navigation "Kirsty we said France, Not Finland!", now i'll start running..... she's proved she has what it takes to be a Red, something others will not... I might be british but theres only one 'reds' i like, even peter will partially agree here, the 'Red Freds' :jump: (oh thats the Red Devils, Parachute Display Team of the British Army) :icon_lol:

IanP

November 14th, 2009, 15:30

Which half the Army refers to as the "Pink Pansies"... then hides behind the nearest tank. :d

I always preferred the Blue Eagles personally, but missed out on Av Tech by one place, so had to go Electronics Tech when I joined REME. ;)

Nick C

November 15th, 2009, 01:32

Judging by the fact you're training to become a pilot yourself Peter, I'd have thought you'd be more appreciative of what this lady has achieved.

I'm not ignorant and believe she's done a splendid job and will be an asset to the team.

Bjoern

November 15th, 2009, 02:03

Which half the Army refers to as the "Pink Pansies"... then hides behind the nearest tank. :d

In the Bundeswehr, "pink pansies" and tanks aren't too far off as the unit color of the panzer force on the uniform is pink.

Gets you a fair share of stupid remarks...

...but then again try to achieve something in the field if your armor refuses to move out. Ha!

Congratulations to that female pilot there. Illustrates yet again that this world is moving ever closer to equality.

Matt Wynn

November 15th, 2009, 05:03

Pink Pansies.... remind me to not buy you a pint for that :icon_lol: yeah to have gotten into the arrows she deserves it, it's tough going... to even be selected to train to become a red whats the requirements? is it 2 years on frontline unit and an operational deployment? equality.... yeah, women were given the chance to help us blokes up out of the gutter and what happened.... they tripped on their high heels and fell in with us :icon_lol: i'll start running now, i'm bound to find an angry mob at my door shortly... i'll go hide behind an AS90 :icon_lol:

CodyValkyrie

November 15th, 2009, 14:01

I have no qualms with any woman in any service as long as they can haul their own load. I do not believe in "lesser standards" like the USAF does for women. Men and women should be held to the EXACT same standard, and it used to piss me off that women would have to perform less physically than men in in the same career fields. Let's face it, if you can't haul my ass out of a bunker hole, you might not as well be in the same hole!

That's all I will say about that.

IanP

November 15th, 2009, 14:04

Given that the standard of medical I had to pass to get into the Army was lower than the standard required for women and that the current standard required is lower than either, you can see how difficult the forces are now finding it to recruit.

Cloud9Gal

November 16th, 2009, 16:59

Gutted here lol it should be a male only club I say, whats next the pink arrows?

Well it would be if she was nice looking but she's not, she's ugly and ginger loool !!!

I debated if I should even reply to these comments. But then, my values and moral standards compelled me to do so. Not just my morals and values but also the fact I'm female.

Let's face it, depending on the field, the job, men or women will make better candidates. Men are better than women at some things and women are better than men at others. That has always been and always will be. I recognize that it's a fact of life.

However, when I see the younger generation making demeaning comments like the ones quoted above, it not only disappoints me but it saddens me as well. Those comments were totally uncalled for. I strongly believe Flight Lieutenant Kirsty Moore had to work hard to earn that position with the Red Arrows. I would also trust that the Royal Air Force picked the BEST candidate for the position. After reading the story piece about her, I am convinced she was the best candidate. She has earned and deserved the right to be part of the Red Arrows Team.

To call her ugly and refer to her hair as being "ginger" is not only demeaning but it is also crass. Peter12213, I am hoping, as you grow older, that you will start seeing people for WHO they are and what they have inside, versus what they look like.

At this point, I will not question your integrity and I will instead blame your lack of maturity.

Friendly advice: Grow up!

Regards,

C9G :female:

spotlope

November 16th, 2009, 17:05

Amen, C9G.

Flyboy208

November 16th, 2009, 18:47

I am a former USN Hornet Guy, and we had plenty of female Hornet drivers around. I went into active duty during the "Tailhook Scandal". Pilots are Pilots, and People are People. Good for her! At least she is a Redhead and not a Blonde! Godspeed to the newest Red Arrows Member!

Mike :applause:

Snuffy

November 16th, 2009, 19:04

I saw and commented favorably on the thread that Chacha linked over in the newshawks, but I'll chime in here too, now.

I affirm and stand along side the comments made by C9G and Flyboy.

And the one question that seems to have not been asked I think is this Peter: Why is she a member of that team and flying, and you are not? I'll bet she can fly circles around you.

One other thing, I didn't know it was a rule that anyone who flies an airplane needed to be handsome or gorgeous. A person's outward appearance has nothing on their skills and abilities.

Second the advice ... rethink your attitude and grow up.

spotlope

November 16th, 2009, 19:08

Not that it has squat to do with anything, but I think she's a rather attractive lass. Eye of the beholder, and all that. :kilroy: And yes, she for sure would be able to fly circles around me. No doubt!

Chacha

November 16th, 2009, 19:36

tigisfat

November 16th, 2009, 21:22

I'd care more if they didn't make a big deal out of it. It has to be really patronizing when these demo teams hire their first woman and want everyone to take notice just for that fact. If they truly cared about integrating women, then they would act like it was normal ops for women to be in the game.

fsafranek

November 16th, 2009, 21:30

tigisfat

November 16th, 2009, 21:35

Let's face it, depending on the field, the job, men or women will make better candidates. Men are better than women at some things and women are better than men at others.

I've thought about this for a long time. It really comes to a head for aviation. Men are usually better at the tactical, fast-reacting and hand-eye coordination side of aviation. Thus, it seems men make better combat aviators and aerobatics pilots (don't tell Debbie Rihn-Harvey or Patty Wagstaff I said that). On the other hand, women are better at multi-tasking and (usually...hopefully) aren't as subseptable to the same 'macho' tendencies that cause SO many crashes all over the world. It would seem that the average woman might do better managing and staying focused in a calm airline cockpit with lots going on at once. Has anyone here tried to set up an approach, fly vectors while maintaining speed and altitude, talk over the satellite phone, talk over the radio and tune new frequencies, reconfigure the aircraft for landing an field questions from flight attendants while someone else reads a checklist out loud?

Flying is less about stick and rudder skills these days than it is about knowledge, multi-tasking and situational awareness. Who's better? I can't make up my mind. I've flown with professional and competent women, and I've flown with women that want to get by on acting like cute little girls.

JamesChams

November 17th, 2009, 04:46

I have no qualms with any woman in any service as long as they can haul their own load. ... Let's face it, if you can't haul my ass out of a bunker hole, you might not as well be in the same hole!Mr. Cody B.
I'd have a hard time hauling your "ass out of a bunker hole" as well and I'm a lot tougher then I look; just Kidding! http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Seriously though, I'm for similar standards, too. But, I must say that most of the women that meet that criteria aren't much in the way of "being Feminine" IMHO :blind: and I find it hard to see them as women because of it. But, I'm bias to women with a more "gentle" disposition to begin with, so pardon me if I seem "narrowminded" in this area. However, I much rather men and women work together than not. But, in all honesty, there are fewer positions for ONLY men in Aviation as a result of the gender de-segregation and many :male: secretly hold a grudge because of it.

Hope no one gets too upset with Peter's statements or mine; the world is strongly divided about these matters any way and that might NOT change for quite some time.

Good Luck, :female: 's!

Snuffy

November 17th, 2009, 06:33

If you don't know Peter personally, you 'll say what he said was rude, unacceptable and biased.... But personally he is a sweet dude.... He crack jokes like you and I do.... He really doesn't mean any harm.... It is like throwing jokes to his sister and making her boil... but his intentions was not.... to belittle woman...

So, if you misunderstood him, I am asking for apologies in his behalf.... Thank you very much! :engel016:

Just my firm opinion here, but we do have female members on this board and it appears at least one has taken offense at this child's brashness.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
If anyone apologizes it should be the one offending and not the offended.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
So I'm seeking apologies in behalf of the female members, from him to them.<o:p></o:p>

Chacha

November 17th, 2009, 06:59

Just my firm opinion here, but we do have female members on this board and it appears at least one has taken offense at this child's brashness.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
If anyone apologizes it should be the one offending and not the offended.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
So I'm seeking apologies in behalf of the female members, from him to them.<o:p></o:p>

We have to hear from Peter's side....

...I agree with you, Ted.... At times our words, if we are not careful, can take offense to other members, let us hear from him....

Often times, we say jokes not intended to hurt others but just a joke, especially when we are talking to our very close friends.... He may have done it in the past and he came out and apologized for it. Let us give the young dude a chance to straighten his act, that is part of growing up, and being brave and bold and at the same time humble. Everybody makes mistakes.

Damage has been done and it is time to pick up the pieces once again and move on... :engel016:

CodyValkyrie

November 17th, 2009, 07:37

Mr. Cody B.
I'd have a hard time hauling your "ass out of a bunker hole" as well and I'm a lot tougher then I look; just Kidding! http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon10.gif
LOL. Hey, I gained a bit of weight when I left the military.... sue me! :D

I'm all more for the femanine as well James. I still however would put my fiance up against most men in a cage fight. She's tough, and she is a fine woman to boot. Hell, she used to be a cop!

What I do not appreciate is the lower standards that the USAF had implemented in many roles. I'll have a much higher trust that someone may pull my ass out of a burning plane if I know they are held to the same physical standards.

To boot, in our day and age, the media and military like to tout their reverse equal opportunity at times. It drives me nuts... it is like they are attempting to make up for all the fallacies of equal opportunity between men and women from time's past. I feel they go about this stuff the wrong way sometimes. As a woman I would be offended by it. If I spent my life trying to equal the same physical standards, then I got paraded around because of my gender... well, you get my point perhaps.

When I was going for BTZ (SrA below the zone; a rank), if you had male genitalia you could bet you could not get it. For some reason at Eielson AFB, AK for the period of a few years it seemed only women got promoted early. It was a big damn joke, as no male made the rank for a period of about 3 years. Something happened that I wasn't privvy to however and they broke up the system; sent a lot of people to various bases. I don't believe is was sexual in nature because they would have made a huge deal about that, but nonetheless something was going on and they broke the good ol' boy system up. After that happened, men and women per capita got promoted equally early.

Shylock

November 17th, 2009, 07:38

I seen Peters posts as just being funny. Some times sarcastic humor is lost in any forum. Maybe I am just giving him the benefit of the doubt. If he did mean his comments in the serious manner, then shame on him. That's not the right attitude to have so early on in life. I am a believer in bad karma.

Cody said it best. Don't lower your standards. Here woman have an easier time getting into the NYPD then the men do. But the FDNY has so very few woman on the job because the test they have to pass are the same as the men. There was even a women's group that demanded their test become easier for women to get on. While I served with the NYPD there were many female partners. There were the female ones that I could trust to have my back at anytime out there. They were better cops then any male partners. Other times the stereotypes would run through my head and would make me second guess why this person took the oath to serve and protect.

Henry

November 17th, 2009, 08:04

Some times sarcastic humor is lost in any forum
amen to that:kilroy:
but bottom line in my opinion
it does not come down to Gender it comes down to qualifications
either one can do it or not
and as far as ugly is concerned
thats probably why i am unemployed:icon_lol:
LOL
H

peter12213

November 17th, 2009, 13:00

Naa it was meant as a joke, I'm sure she's a great flyer, good luck to her!

Nick C

November 17th, 2009, 13:04

Naa it was meant as a joke, I'm sure she's a great flyer, good luck to her!

There is a big difference between a joke and an insult, I'd suggest you learn the difference between the two.

Matt Wynn

November 17th, 2009, 13:41

i knew i should have reminded him to wind his neck in...

insult: An action or form of speech deliberately intended to be rude; Anything that causes offence/offense by being of an unacceptable quality; To offend someone by being rude, insensitive or insolent; To demean or affront...

Joke:....

"A British General had sent some of his men off to fight for their country in the Falkland Island Crisis.

Upon returning to England from the South American island, three soldiers that had distinguished themselves in battle were summoned to the General's office. "Since we weren't actually at war," the General began, "I can't give out any medals. We did, however, want to let each of you know your efforts were appreciated.

What we've decided to do is to let each of you choose two points on your body. You will be given two pounds sterling for each inch of distance between those parts. We'll start on the left, boys, so what'll it be?"

Soldier 1: "The tip of me head to me toes, sahr!" General: "Very good son, that's 70 inches which comes to 140 pounds"

Soldier 2: "The tip of the finger on one outstretched hand to the tip of the other, sir!"

General: "Even better son, that's 72 inches which comes to 144 pounds"

Soldier 3: "The palm of me hand to the tip of me left pinky, sahr!"

General: "That's a strange but fair request, son!

As the general begins the measurement: "What! Son, where is your left pinky?"

Soldier 3: "Falkland Island, sahr!"

(Real ones a lot more crude, right UK Armed forces regulars/part timers?) :icon_lol:

AirHead

November 17th, 2009, 13:52

Who knew!

Snuffy

November 17th, 2009, 14:35

Naa it was meant as a joke, I'm sure she's a great flyer, good luck to her!

No where near an apology to the offended.

Man up.

harleyman

November 17th, 2009, 20:51

It was a tad harsh what he said..

But I like ChaCha don't think what he said came out as quite the way he wanted it interpited....

Kodos for her making the team..She wouldn't be flying in that formation without the skills ..

And to me she has that girl next door look...And I liked that girl all my life...

tigisfat

November 17th, 2009, 21:54

Not that is has any bearing on flying or anything, but I as well think she's pretty....

It has to be said: most demonstration teams do select based on looks for the male members. It won't be any different for women. They must serve as ambassadors to the world in every way. They are selected not only based on looks, but ability to work in a team, friendly disposition and a constant positive outlook also.