GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome - big problems

[CBris]

... for now.

Does anyone here know the workings of this dds texture in the FSX/texture folder.

I thought I did...

OK, the problem - I have the DirectX SDK and the DirectX TextureTool. I have created a new GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome.dds image and it works on other aircraft. I have got that bit right and I can see the GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome working on other planes, for example the P51 racer. I now have three GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome files - the default, the one that came with the Icarus Pitts and my own New one.

They ALL work on other planes - the P-51 is shown here:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_defaultglobalenv.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/defaultglobalenv.jpg) http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_changeglobalenv.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/changeglobalenv.jpg) http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_compareglobalenv.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/compareglobalenv.jpg)

If you look closely at the enlargements, you will see the differences (clue: observe the Mustang nose and the reflection there)

BUT I cannot get the GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome to work at all on the Eagles anymore, irrespective of which one is in the FSX/Texture folder.

No matter what I do, the Eagles all show NO GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome see here:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_dulleagle.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/dulleagle.jpg)

Does anyone have any idea as to why the IRIS Eagle no longer looks for the global envmap?

This is what that Eagle should look like:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_dumbdown1.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/dumbdown1.jpg)

[MCDesigns]

That is funky, could it be model specific?

[CBris]

Incidentally - for those readers who do know their way around the DirectX Texture Tool: I don't!

But I have compared the original and the Icarus "Globalenv" cubic bitmaps. The default is A8R8G8B8 and the Icarus one is X8R8G8B8 (32 bit save formats folks). I have swapped these, I have used both 64 bit and 32 Bit versions of the DirectX Texture Tool.

I am doing something wrong, but what?

[bushpilot]

Does anyone have any idea as to why the IRIS Eagle no longer looks for the global envmap?





Do you have texture fallback config in your repaint folder?

[CBris]

Don't get me wrong, Pekka, I was just going to write "Of course I do, what kind of a question is that to ask a painter?"

...and then I checked!

Folks - the IRIS Eagles DON'T have a fallback outside of the aircraft folders...

This is the standard IRIS fallback:

[fltsim]

fallback.1=..\Texture.Common
fallback.2=..\Texture.VC
fallback.3=..\Texture.Bump
fallback.4=..\Texture.Specular


Those who know (I ought to) will see that any default aircraft has the following standard lines:

[fltsim]

fallback.1=..\texture
fallback.2=..\..\..\..\Scenery\Global\texture
fallback.3=..\..\..\..\..\..\Scenery\Global\textur e

All three lines are important, but the first line could be the culprit. Hang on...

If this works, then the fallback should/might be:

[fltsim]

fallback.1=..\Texture.Common
fallback.2=..\Texture.VC
fallback.3=..\Texture.Bump
fallback.4=..\Texture.Specular
fallback.5=..\texture
fallback.6=..\..\..\..\Scenery\Global\texture
fallback.7=..\..\..\..\..\..\Scenery\Global\textur e

More in a bit, after I check results...

Thinks... that first texture is only one layer up to the repaint folder...

Nope. Sorry Pekka. Even editing the texture fallback to the FSX root directory and forcefully pointing at the "Texture" folder hasn't worked.

So... I did something to upset the IRIS Christen Eagles - all of them, But what? This is intriguing.

Thanks for a good first pointer, Pekka - pity I didn't find the answer there - that would have been great...

[BananaBob]

I know if you mess with the default one and don't use the app in FSX SDK it will mess it up, I did one awhile back ago that I use on all my paints but truthfully, I've already forgot how I did it, LOL but I add it to all my skins now, it really makes a difference. Nice paints! :ernae:

[Gizmo]

Edit:Sorry re-read the above

So even if you replace the default env its still messed up?...
humm cant say ive seen that before even when making my own env's

btw for re-building Cubemaps i found Ati's CUBEMAPGEN (http://developer.amd.com/GPU/CUBEMAPGEN/Pages/default.aspx) to be very handy combining it with a large number of env shots and autostitch (http://people.cs.ubc.ca/~mbrown/autostitch/autostitch.html) got me some real nice env maps

hope you get it sorted

Laters
steve

[CBris]

Well...

We all know the Eagles worked before I did something odd.

My amended globalenv textures work on other models.

I can open the mdl files (copied out of FSX and then opened with wordpad...)

[CBris]

I think I'll go to bed and have a fresh look in the morning. I have three GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome files that still work on other aircraft (Haven't had time to check all 185 planes and 500+ paints...)

I have bu66ered something up on the Eagle, so I may try a re-install tomorrow.

Tools, Gizmo? I used the DX Texture Tool in the DX SDK - as instructed to do so by the FSX SDK.

I will have a look at the ATI tool...

[stiz]

have you checked to see if the egale has a custom reflection in the texture folders??

[CBris]

I changed nothing in the texture folders. There were no GlobalEnvs there before nor after... still trying... Maybe Iris will answer in the Iris forums?

[JT8D-9A]

Did you move the aircraft to a directory outside of the FSX directory?

If so, you can copy your cubic map into the texture.common folder or you can try to change your texture.cfg to:

[fltsim]

fallback.1=..\Texture.Common
fallback.2=..\Texture.VC
fallback.3=..\Texture.Bump
fallback.4=..\Texture.Specular
fallback.5=..\texture
fallback.6=..\..\..\..\Scenery\Global\texture
fallback.7=..\..\..\..\Texture

the last entry points to the main FSX texture folder.
This shouldn't be necessary, if the aircraft is located in the FSX\simobjects\airplanes folder.

[Gizmo]

Hey Chris

Ive used the ATI cubemapgen tool because it has a nice GUI that allows you to pipe in your - + XYZ cube images a check them in realtime a sky box and globe setting,it also takes the guess work out of making sure your exporting in the correct .dds cubemap format

Just had a dig around my bookmarks and found the FSD thread where i first read about it

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7389

laters
Steve

[JamesChams]

Mr. Chris B. "CBris,"
I, too, have used the Icarus Pitts' GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome.dds overthe default one. However, I found that the reflections are NOT correct; it reflects Land when actually over oceans and that didn't seem right to me. (See pic below).

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_changeglobalenv.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/changeglobalenv.jpg)

Your's, however, looks like a proper reflection. Would you consider sharing your's (pictured below) as FREEWARE?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_compareglobalenv.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/compareglobalenv.jpg)

Thank you!:ernae:

[spotlope]

James, the chrome texture is a fixed image, rather than an actual reflection. Chris's plane would look just as out of place over the Grand Canyon as Icarus's looks over Plum Island. It's one of those little annoyances masquerading as a feature in FSX.

[CBris]

Hello James,

The first one is indeed the Icarus "global"

The second one is a "global" I created - it is set around Plum Island and as everyone can see, there is even a "Chase Plane" set into the "Z Negative" axis of the "Global" - if you look very closely, you'll even recognise a Christen Eagle...

But until I resolve the issue as to why the Christens are suddenly not "reading" a correctly created GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome, everyone has to wait.

By the way, the odd thing, readers. is that I have replaced the original Icarus Global and still theIris Christen refuses to read any "Global". I may reinstall in the morning

[CBris]

Hi Bill, didn't see you there... parallel posting.

It was my intention to see if A. I could put a cubic envmap together and B. maybe start a mini series as I went along. At the moment it is a very simple "PI" cube, but I am getting the drift...

[JamesChams]

Mr. Bill Womack "spotlope,"


...the chrome texture is a fixed image, rather than an actual reflection. Chris's plane would look just as out of place over the Grand Canyon as Icarus's looks over Plum Island. It's one of those little annoyances masquerading as a feature in FSX.
I figured as much; thanks for the confirmation! :wavey:


Mr. Chris B. "CBris,"


...The first one is indeed the Icarus "global"

The second one is a "global" I created - ...But until I resolve the issue as to why the Christens are suddenly not "reading" a correctly created GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome, everyone has to wait....
No Problem; I can wait... Thanks so much! :wavey:

[CBris]

I think I have the answer

OK, what I did to diagnose...

I started today with the Icarus cubic maps installed from the original Icarus patch (Plural - more later) and the Eagles worked fine.

Mustang: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_changeglobalenv.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/changeglobalenv.jpg) and Eagle: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_notworking.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/notworking.jpg)

Then I checked the format of the Icarus cubes - they are X8R8G8B8 - and I compared this to the original FSX cubes, which are A8R8G8B8. So I edited my GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome to X8R8G8B8 format.

Shut off sim. Moved my GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome to the textures folder. Restarted sim and flew Mustang and Eagles

Mustang: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_working.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/working.jpg) and Eagle: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_notworking.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/notworking.jpg)

So if you look closely you can see that my new cubic map works on the Mustang but not on the Eagle. WHY?

Then I remembered the Icarus patch consists of TWO envmaps, the second is called "GlobalEnvTest.dds" so I removed it and... hey presto! Mustang stays with my new cubemap and the Eagle goes non-reflective.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_dulleagle.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/dulleagle.jpg)

See - all dull and matt.

So... the answer is that the IRIS Christen Eagle calls on a cubic map called "GlobalEnvTest.dds" and not on the "GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome.dds" How come David is calling a reflection map created by Icarus? But anyway - copying my "GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome.dds" and saving it in the Texture folder as "GlobalEnvTest.dds" has SOLVED the problem! Now I can go fix my cubic maps.

Look: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/th_workingatlast.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CBris/Eagles%20Galore/workingatlast.jpg)

There was nothing wrong with either my cubic maps or with my installation of the Christen Eagle. It is merely that the Eagle calls a different cubic environment map filename.

[JamesChams]

Mr. Chris B.,

You should post this on the IRIS forums; they need their customers help for things like this.
Good Job! :wavey:

[CBris]

Long done...

[Paularx]

"How come David is calling a reflection map created by Icarus? But anyway - copying my "GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome.dds" and saving it in the Texture folder as "GlobalEnvTest.dds" has SOLVED the problem! "

CBRIS - this file "GlobalEnvTest.dds" is in fsx default texture folder as standard IIRC- don't think that the model reference to that texture name implies that use of Icarus' texture at dev time... perhaps search to find that file in fsx folder structure as well to verify, at work so cannot confirm now.

You paintwork - as always, is breathtaking !:ernae:

[stiz]

"How come David is calling a reflection map created by Icarus? But anyway - copying my "GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome.dds" and saving it in the Texture folder as "GlobalEnvTest.dds" has SOLVED the problem! "

CBRIS - this file "GlobalEnvTest.dds" is in fsx default texture folder as standard IIRC- don't think that the model reference to that texture name implies that use of Icarus' texture at dev time... perhaps search to find that file in fsx folder structure as well to verify, at work so cannot confirm now.

You paintwork - as always, is breathtaking !:ernae:

yup the GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome.dds and GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome are both defult textures and are located in the main texture folder. The developer has to select either (there both the same, just different sizes if i recall) and place it into the reflection material slot in max/gmax otherwise the plane wont reflect. You can also create your own custom reflection map and call it whatever you want, make sure its the one selected in the material slot, plonk it in the aircrafts texture folder and the sim will read that one instead of the one in the main texture folder.

Also if you put the defult GlobalEnv_AC_Chrome texture in the texture folder the sim will that one first and ignore the one in the main fsx texture folder.

:engel016:

[CBris]

Well you may be right - it was just that the icarus model had that "test" and I don't recall having seen it before, but if it is a default texture, it seems strange that to change the Mustang reflections I have to change the "Chrome" and to change the Eagle reflections I need to change the "Test".

Still, I am only the painter, not a modeller...

...and thanks. More piccies of the latest 2 paints in the Eagle thread...

[stiz]

Well you may be right - it was just that the icarus model had that "test" and I don't recall having seen it before, but if it is a default texture, it seems strange that to change the Mustang reflections I have to change the "Chrome" and to change the Eagle reflections I need to change the "Test".


Icarus most likely selected the "test" one in the material slot, all the defult planes use the chrome one. It gets really fun when the developer makes their own, they could call it "penutbutterandjellyjam.dds" and it'd still work, FSX doesnt care what you call a texture so long as it matches whats in the material slot in the design program :icon_lol:

[CBris]

Got it. Thanks everyone who helped - you all did.

The "Test" is indeed larger. So now I can "make my own" and save them with the new aircraft texture and theoretically make my own chrome effects to suit the model - and not just have to rely on some developer to get it right :ernae:

(just kidding guys - but it does open up another aspect of re-painting for us)