Pirates mistakenly attack French Warship

[Lionheart]

Hey all,


I love it when this happens.

Somali pirates attacked a ship at night, thinking it was a huge frieghter. What they found out was that this ship is the flag ship Naval vessel, dispatched to hunt down pirates in the Somali waters..

:d

More here;
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091007/wl_africa_afp/somaliapiracyshippingfrance_20091007151820

[MCDesigns]

SWEET! Now get an attack heli and seek and destroy the rest of them :jump:

[N2056]

I like this one...came out after we rescued the Captain of one of our merchants :d

http://blog.usni.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/the-us-navy.jpg

[Slug Flyer]

I swear I read stories about this exact thing happening earlier this year. Of course, the guys who made this mistake the first time probably haven't come back to tell the cautionary tale...

In all fairness, it's not a combatant warship like a destroyer...I can see how it could be mistaken for a freighter at night.

[Lionheart]

I swear I read stories about this exact thing happening earlier this year. Of course, the guys who made this mistake the first time probably haven't come back to tell the cautionary tale...

In all fairness, it's not a combatant warship like a destroyer...I can see how it could be mistaken for a freighter at night.

Yes.. It carries fuel for the other ships. They call it their 'flagship' so I can only assume its a command vessel for directing the French Fleet on operations.


Im glad the bad guys made the mistake. :d One of two skiffs caught.


Bill

[Wing_Z]

I feel genuinely sorry for those Somali dudes...y'all know the background story there, don't you?

[djscoo]

I feel genuinely sorry for those Somali dudes...y'all know the background story there, don't you?
go on...

[N2056]

I do, and I don't feel sorry for them at all. There is no way that what they are doing can be justified.

[Jen]

I do, and I don't feel sorry for them at all. There is no way that what they are doing can be justified.

You are absolutely right, piracy can NOT be justified.

But NEITHER can the reason, which lead to piracy, among what was normally ordinary fishermen.
Namely Europian factories and hospitals huge waste dump of toxic material, such as lead, cadmium, mercury.. and even lots of nuclear waste.
Then add the organized illegal robbery of the only natural resource they had, which was tuna. This all started when Somalia was left without any government almost 20 years ago.

As I said, this is NOT a defence for piracy, just a little remeinder, that there might be others, who are not exactly saints in this story:engel016:

Jen

[Wing_Z]

Yeah these guys are all once-upon-a-time fishermen.
So for various reasons too many to list here, (and certainly not all the doing of the fishermen under discussion) the Somali gummint stopped functioning.
With no protection of the coastal fishing waters, the international fleets moved in.
The locals never stood a chance, fishing against the big organised guys.
But they DID know the waters were theirs, and they were being robbed.
Piracy act #1 was the taking of a foreign trawler's catch.
It was an act of desperation, and it fed the village for a time.
From there it's easy to see the progression.

So sure it's fun to send in the Navy and shoot the blighters but it will not cure the problem.
These people have absolutely nothing to lose - if they stop doing what they are doing they will starve.
QED.
My pity is for those who know what they are doing is a deadend street - literally.
But there's no gong back now...

How to stop the piracy off Somalia?
Defend the Somali fishing exclusion zone and put the fellas back to an honest day work, like the old days.
Question is: Who will do this?

[Lionheart]

Anyways.. Good that they at least got one of the bad guys teams.

:ernae:


Imagine the damage they would have done to innocents if that were just a freighter.




Bill

[Wing_Z]

This kind of policing would be why the US Navy among others is looking at this baby. (http://www.gdlcs.com/)
You would not stand a chance...

[wombat666]

That 'Littoral Combat Ship' is a threat that I wouldn't like to tangle with.
:mixedsmi:

[djscoo]

How to stop the piracy off Somalia?
Defend the Somali fishing exclusion zone and put the fellas back to an honest day work, like the old days.
Question is: Who will do this?
I think it's too late for that...who would want to go back to working for a living when they can steal with very little consequence?

[Lionheart]

Yep...


I for one cannot see myself going to piracy, kidnapping, assaulting people with rifles and machineguns and various other artillery because I cannot fish. I would probably get a job at Walmart instead.

:d

The reality is that these people are killing and doing evil stuff. What are we supposed to do?

Thats my humble thoughts on it. I dont think of myself as an extremist. We are 'protecting innocents' from murderers and bandits that mean harm.


EDIT: Yes, I know, they do not have Walmarts there. But they have farm land. They can do other things, like harvest banana's, fruits, veggies. They could build homes, wood working, growing rice, hunting (for meat, not people), etc. There are endless lists of other things they could do that is more profitable. Going after rich people for kidnapping should be treated appropriately in a lawful way. Wipe out the bad guys that are doing really bad things....


Bill

[djscoo]

EDIT: Yes, I know, they do not have Walmarts there. But they have farm land. They can do other things, like harvest banana's, fruits, veggies. They could build homes, wood working, growing rice, hunting (for meat, not people), etc. There are endless lists of other things they could do that is more profitable. Going after rich people for kidnapping should be treated appropriately in a lawful way. Wipe out the bad guys that are doing really bad things....


Bill

I'm probably sounding overly agumentative, and this isn't meant personally, but they really don't have that many options. Only 2% compared to ~20% in the US of their land is arable. Farming simply isn't profitable in a desert. Per capita GDP in the US is ~$45,800 while in Somalia it's ~$600. Most of us can't fathom being that poor, or living in such a hopeless state. I feel bad for the nation as a whole, but there is little that can be done besides protecting our own property and citizens.

On a side note, the dumping of toxic waste was authorized by the unrecognized government in exchange for like $70 Million. You can't place the blame solely on the companies. The waste broker gives you money, and the waste, and it's up to you to dispose of it properly. The (quote-unquote) "President" just took the money and dumped the waste.

[Bjoern]

How to stop the piracy off Somalia?
Defend the Somali fishing exclusion zone and put the fellas back to an honest day work, like the old days.
Question is: Who will do this?

The somali police, should it ever be in a state in which it can hold up law and order there.

Those pirates aren't doing this out of desparation or because they're Robin Hoods. Modern piracy gangs have a mafia-like structure and are not really much more than criminals stealing ships instead of cars. Piracy is profitable there because it's a well traveled area and the ransom for kidnapped ships is usually well into the millions of Euros or Dollars and just like in all the classical Mafia movies, the key people in the hierarchy get the biggest slice.

Hence I don't feel really sorry for the guys in their speedboats with their RPGs and AKs. They knew the risks.
It's just the old game of criminals vs authorities on another scale.


By the way: Modern piracy as seen in the waters around Somalia isn't a current thing. A certain area in Asia (forgot which one, I think it was near the Philipines) was infamous for piracy, but in recent years, the local authorities could get back into the game.


- Edit: Did you know that Somalia has one of the most extensive and cheapest mobile phone networks of the whole african continent? So "poor buggars" my arse. ;)

[NCGent]

I am very glad that my morals are higher than that of those guys and others around the world. I’m struggling also to feed myself, pay my bills and keep myself clothed. I use my brain and other resources to come up with new ways to do this and all those new ways are of a legal fashion. I don’t murder or hold hostage other people to obtain anything I need nor do I sale any illegal substances to enhance my monetary intake. Piracy has 0% excuses, no way to justify it at all, you don’t steal a mans food when you are hungry, you work with that man to figure a way to feed you both.


Chris

[Wing_Z]

Aah we live in our 1st-world western-style democracies and pass judgement...so easy.

Let's take an example a little closer to that culture then:
For decades, the "Irish Troubles" caused misery, death, suspicion, and hatred.
The British tried to police this unruly lot by ever-tougher strong-arm tactics which were met by ever-tougher acts on the part of the IRA and others.
Ultimately a nuke would've gone off somewhere.

Then somebody (actually the EU) said: Wait a minute, there's a root cause for all this!
Let's see if we can't pump some money into the place and address the issues of poverty and superstition that cause the problems.
They did just that, and all those hard-core Paddies watched their support base melt away, to start reaping the benefits of a society with a chance.
Ireland is a pretty good place today.

Kicking ass around the world is a good way to feed the arms dealers, but will NEVER solve the problem.
Pick any trouble spot in the world and apply this test: Vietnam (twice), Afghanistan (twice, erm, actually, many times) Uganda, Lebanon etc etc.

Crikey I have gone on...if you are still with me, this is not meant to be a political rant...
Ultimately the big losers are the civilians involved in the conflict.
If you have never been in a situation of desperation where the only course open to you is survival, no matter what, then you probably can't make the mental leap to see why you should feel sorry for the Somali pirates.
Enjoy your life, you are privileged.

[Jen]

Aah we live in our 1st-world western-style democracies and pass judgement...so easy.

Let's take an example a little closer to that culture then:
For decades, the "Irish Troubles" caused misery, death, suspicion, and hatred.
The British tried to police this unruly lot by ever-tougher strong-arm tactics which were met by ever-tougher acts on the part of the IRA and others.
Ultimately a nuke would've gone off somewhere.

Then somebody (actually the EU) said: Wait a minute, there's a root cause for all this!
Let's see if we can't pump some money into the place and address the issues of poverty and superstition that cause the problems.
They did just that, and all those hard-core Paddies watched their support base melt away, to start reaping the benefits of a society with a chance.
Ireland is a pretty good place today.

Kicking ass around the world is a good way to feed the arms dealers, but will NEVER solve the problem.
Pick any trouble spot in the world and apply this test: Vietnam (twice), Afghanistan (twice, erm, actually, many times) Uganda, Lebanon etc etc.

Crikey I have gone on...if you are still with me, this is not meant to be a political rant...
Ultimately the big losers are the civilians involved in the conflict.
If you have never been in a situation of desperation where the only course open to you is survival, no matter what, then you probably can't make the mental leap to see why you should feel sorry for the Somali pirates.
Enjoy your life, you are privileged.

Couldn`t agree more Wing_z.

Most people only wish a job, an income and a chance to support their families.
Give´m a chance for that, and they will completely loose their appetite for piracy and other extreme ways of living.

Take that away from them, and the result is 100% certain.

Teenagers without ANY future, but unemployment and lifelong hopelesness, is very easy prey for these mafiosos.
What should have been strong young Somali fishermen with the ability to support themselves, rapidly turns into crack smoking desperados.

It`s the same all over the world. Somalia, mexico, central Amerika, palestina... you name them.

And I don`t think the "why don`t they just get a job" is valid in these places.


Jen

[Wing_Z]

Reading through all this, one might think the intent is to dump on Lionheart's thread.
It is not.

I think it's too late for that...who would want to go back to working for a living when they can steal with very little consequence?
While you are figuring out a long term solution, short-term you must of course protect the shipping, preferably with sexy hardware (see post 12 above).
But either way, the pirates will die, so you can't help but feel sorry for them....especially the ones who don't even know the difference between a Navy ship and a fat fishing trawler.

[pied]

Search , I think, 'Planet Money' Podcast for their series on this issue.... It is a business purely business.

There are the money guys, the food suppliers, the stalkers, the takers, and of course the intelligence people. Each get a cut of the take, and if I'm remembering correctly the teenagers who actually take the ships get the smallest percentage.....


pied