F-22 Progress Images

[Roadburner440]

Well here we are once again with another update for the F-22. Not to much to speak of on systems or anything else as we are still in the rendering stage on this one. So all the progress will be in what you see. I will say we are kicking around a lot of ideas with regards to this project at this point, as we feel the aircraft deserves to be done in the highest standard possible. As always comments are welcome, and now is the best time to suggest things you would like to see since it is the best time to do changes. Better now than later, when it is in the sim and would not be worth the time to back track. :ernae:

http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u359/Roadburner426/F-22%20Raptor/0120010.jpg

http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u359/Roadburner426/F-22%20Raptor/0130000.jpg

http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u359/Roadburner426/F-22%20Raptor/0140000.jpg

[gajit]

Wow - look at that :ernae::jump::applause:

[Rezabrya]

I'm really hoping this bird has some accurate system modeling. It would be real disappointing if there were no systems modeling in a complicated bird like this.

[jmig]

I'm really hoping this bird has some accurate system modeling. It would be real disappointing if there were no systems modeling in a complicated bird like this.

How many of the systems are actually public knowledge and not classified? I can image it might be hard to get real data on this bird?

[MenendezDiego]

sawwwwweet!

[wilycoyote4]

APU doors and APU function?

[idancesafetydance]

this.... this is full of win.

[MenendezDiego]

I hope FSD does a better job at promoting this bird. Some of the P-38 preview shots were well below par from what I've come to expect in any big fsx release

[peter12213]

Looking awesome!
How's the F-15 doing also!

[Roadburner440]

A lot of the systems are indeed classified. That is some of the things we are having to kick around as far as what to do and where to take it. That is the problem in doing an aircraft like this, and we acknowledge that. We have been gracious enough to recieve various support from members in the community in trying to make it as accurate as possible. Which is the main reason we try to keep updates on the progress out there. As far as the P-38 goes unsure what you mean about the screens, but there will be a video coming out in the next week or so as FSD has stated. Hopefully that will give everyone a better sense of the project. I must admit for most MSFS products I get a better idea from videos than screens myself, and I am sure I am not alone on that. As for the F-15 I have not seen it myself since we managed to get it into the simulator. It is off undergoing coding for the systems. I read the majority of the manual and sent off a list of things that should be included so we will see. The moment the F-15 comes across my desk I will get some screens posted. :USA-flag:

[JamesChams]

Mr. Steve J. "Roadburner440 (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/member.php?u=77366),"

1. The F-22 use pilot voice recognition to help in the manage of its systems. I use a product called "Speech Buddy" to do the same in the FlightSim; Cuts down on the workload in the cockpit with both pushing keyboard buttons or moving the mouse. It ONLY requires one thing of the developers model:

That there is a "Key Press" (Keyboard shortcut) event for each and every button/toggle switch feature onboard the VC; enabling a "send Keys" function method to be performed by the software when a voice command is initiated.

2. Complete VMS and NAVIGATION avionics package with HMDS.
3. 4096 UHDT VC/External textures.
4. Inclusion of this too HERE (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=17341), if possible.:kilroy:

If you can make these possible, I would really like that for this model.

Thank you for your consideration. :wavey:<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_259570", true); </SCRIPT>

[djscoo]

Looking forward to this one!:applause:

[MenendezDiego]

I just think they should hire some folks, especially people we see on this forum, to take shots for their marketing, because this is just sad http://www.fsd-international.com/Hangar/P38/index.htm

I'm sure the product is amazing, but it bothers me when a company doesn't take the time to show the FULL potential of their product in fsx (i.e. with REX, GEX, Anti-Alliasing on)

nothing against the product, simply wish fsd would take more time in promoting it

[djscoo]

I just think they should hire some folks, especially people we see on this forum, to take shots for their marketing, because this is just sad http://www.fsd-international.com/Hangar/P38/index.htm

I'm sure the product is amazing, but it bothers me when a company doesn't take the time to show the FULL potential of their product in fsx (i.e. with REX, GEX, Anti-Alliasing on)

nothing against the product, simply wish fsd would take more time in promoting it
I agree...Tigisfat made a post a week ago that blew me away. If you saw the screenshots of the P-38 in his thread, you'd think it was a different plane from the one on their site. Shame on you, FSD...

[Gibbage]

Those are all old dev screenshots. You will see new and better ones soon. Can we keep this one on topic though?

[Chacha]

Those are all old dev screenshots. You will see new and better ones soon. Can we keep this one on topic though?


:applause:

[Roadburner440]

That is certaintly an interesting feature Mr. Chams. I would not say it is impossible to do, but highly improbably. I never knew the F-22 had such a system. That is where having the actual aircraft flight manual would be handy. I would say that is an idea best reserved for the future of flight simulation though. It is quite alright as far as keeping it on topic/not. I view these as a general time to air out anything on peoples minds about all projects. I will see what I can do as I have FEX, UTX, & GEX. I just got my new i7 system 2 weeks ago which was a massive step up from my lap top. I did turn all the tree's off though cause they seem to cause more problems than they are worth. Thanks for the feedback.

[JamesChams]

Mr. Steve J. "Roadburner440 (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/member.php?u=77366),"

Yes, the voice system onboard the F-22, I believe, is called Voice Command & Control. I can simulate that if all buttons/switches have a KEY PRESS Event associated with it in the VC. e.g. the gear level have a Mouse Click event and press the "G" on the keyboard to do the same. Using Speech Buddy (and MSN's Speech recognition SDK), I can use a "user defined" command, like "Raise Gear," for the Speech Buddy software to interperate it and send a keyboard command for the "G" key; and, in the sim, the gear gets raised. Its a "Beautiful" system! :ernae: Now, if you can help with putting all the keyboard key events into the VC, I can have this completely. Thanks! :wavey:
Also, Mr. Dave Sweetman, at McPhat Studio's, is excellent when it comes to UHDT repaints etc. Here is their website: www.McPhatstudios.net (http://www.McPhatstudios.net)

As far as the rest, please just make it at-least Navigate correctly. I can live without the rest, if I have to.
Moreover, getting the F-22 AFM is totally out of the question - Its Classified! :kilroy:

Good Luck Sir! :wavey:

[fsafranek]

A Klingon cloaking device would be a nice feature. No, seriously. :icon_lol:
:ernae:

[JamesChams]

A Klingon cloaking device would be a nice feature. No, seriously. :icon_lol:
:ernae:Mr. "fsafranek,"
If that's the AlphaSim version out for sale, I would have bought it; but, I "seriously" didn't see it. :icon_lol:
And, it must have been really hard for you to repaint.:isadizzy:

:icon_lol:

[Rezabrya]

Make the flight model as accurate as possible and I will love it.

[centuryseries]

The only folks who'd know if the flight model is accurate would be real life F-22 pilots :icon_lol:

[VFR Alexander]

Mr. Steve J. "Roadburner440 (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/member.php?u=77366),"

1. The F-22 use pilot voice recognition to help in the manage of its systems. I use a product called "Speech Buddy" to do the same in the FlightSim; Cuts down on the workload in the cockpit with both pushing keyboard buttons or moving the mouse. It ONLY requires one thing of the developers model:

That there is a "Key Press" (Keyboard shortcut) event for each and every button/toggle switch feature onboard the VC; enabling a "send Keys" function method to be performed by the software when a voice command is initiated.

2. Complete VMS and NAVIGATION avionics package with HMDS.
3. 4096 UHDT VC/External textures.
4. Inclusion of this too HERE (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=17341), if possible.:kilroy:

If you can make these possible, I would really like that for this model.

Thank you for your consideration. :wavey:<script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_259570", true); </script>

The F-22 doesn't use voice control, nor does it have a helmet mounted sight.

[X_eidos2]

Regarding the idea of having key press commands for every switch in the F-22 VC. I think it would be possible for some of the basic functions, but I think you would quickly run out of options for anything that was a custom animation. I don't think many people would want to re-assign more than one or two key commands if any to get things to work, because what works in one plane wouldn't work in the next. I'm currently working on a very simple VC and I'm looking for just 3 key press commands that I might borrow from functions that this plane will never use to activate 3 custom switches. As I look I have to keep reminding myself that each person uses FS differently. While I never do much with radios, others might use them all the time. While someone is tapping keys to adjust a frequency, I don't think they want to suddenly find themselves launching a salvo of rockets. Even in my simple VC I have over 60 custom animations. I can only imagine that in a F-22 cockpit they would have a whole lot more.

[Chris Sykes]

James with regards to the speach regocnition, if you have lots of systems/switches you soon run our of "Key Commands" and from i understand developers use other methods to run annimations etc etc when this happens, therefor if its not got a "Key Command" then you can use the speach recognition software to make it work...

BTW the Eurofighter Typhoon has speach recognition aswell!

[JamesChams]

The F-22 doesn't use voice control, nor does it have a helmet mounted sight.Mr. "VFR Alexander,"
Its NOT common knowledge, but the pilots DO use it; so its there. I've also got a DVD documentary set from www.topics-ent.com (http://www.topics-ent.com) called "Fighter Pilots (http://www.topics-ent.com/.docs/record_id/10086/pg/10833)" - In the F-15 DVD, there is a segment about the F-22's VC&C. HMDS isn't on all of them so, you are "somewhat" correct.
Also, this Pilot in this video calls "FOX" the voice command for the release of the weapon. check it out here: 8QQozXfXSxU&fmt=18

Gents,

Regarding my request for Speech Recognition:
I am aware of the limitations, I am ONLY requesting this for pertenant features, though. And, its about time developers explored the "Potential" of maximizing the capabilities of "features" in FSX. Its frankly getting a little lame just taking out the latest jets with steam gauges and absolutely NOTHING NEW about its abilities or actual flight charactistics.

And, the F-22 (like the JSF) has features that most modern aircraft have yet to compete with. So, it would be nice to see those features in the VC as well. Why else, as a customer, would I spend another $30-$40 (USD) for another product that does NOTHING differently or "Better" than the freeware one; because its got MORE gauges? NO, I want something that is more "real" to life and you can actual navigate with; do a mission or two for its type with; and have some fun exploring its flight envelope (Thrust Vectoring - Backflips, etc.). And, it should look like a $100 Milion (US) dollar jet with 4096 Textures both in the VC and outside (exterior) for the whole "emmersion-experience" in the sim.

BTW: If your an FS developer on the F-22 and live in/near Ohio, Wright-Patterson AFB, leiason officers will allow you a close-up look at them if you contact them and do the necessaries, and it will probably cost. Check Food 4 Less Ad (https://www.ladysavings.com/publix-weekly-ad/?food-4-less/) and Food City Ad (https://www.ladysavings.com/publix-weekly-ad/?food-city/).

That's the deal for me.

[XLR8]

WOW ! This is great ! I have been wanting this bird for a long time.I have the Alphasim F-22,but its not real good but it's better than nothing.

Two things that I would like to see ! An FSX sp1 version,and maybe a clear HUD option (not green ).

I know people who work at Lockheed that might give some info,they tell me stuff all the time.

:applause:

[MenendezDiego]

F/A-22's James? LoL

F-22A

[JamesChams]

F/A-22's James? LoL

F-22A
FYI: That's what is WAS called during its development... but, I've change it in the post so that "jerks" don't find more reasons to pick on every single post I make.

EDIT: Quote from From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The aircraft was variously designated F-22 and F/A-22 during the years prior to formally entering USAF service in December 2005 as the F-22A." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22_Raptor)

[JamesChams]

WOW ! This is great ! I have been wanting this bird for a long time.I have the Alphasim F-22,but its not real good but it's better than nothing....I have the AlphaSim FS9 version, too, and its a "Toy" but not in a bad way :kilroy:; IMO it could use a modern FSX fix and look.:engel016:


I know people who work at Lockheed that might give some info,they tell me stuff all the time....Yeah, just keep quite with what and who you tell it to or they'll have you shot.:icon_lol: (just kidding:173go1:)

Later! :wavey:

[XLR8]

I have the AlphaSim FS9 version, too, and its a "Toy" but not in a bad way :kilroy:; IMO it could use a modern FSX fix and look.:engel016:

When Alphasim had there forums up and running. I had asked about a FSX version. I was told it was 80% complete. But I think things have changed over there. Thats been a good year or so.

Yeah, just keep quite with what and who you tell it to or they'll have you shot.:icon_lol: (just kidding:173go1:)

Later! :wavey:

I worked out there before getting laid off. I still talk to people.

[falcon409]

I am attempting to get back in contact with a pilot who flew with the 457th and has since transferred to Elmendorf AFB to fly the F-22. We made many deployments together and one of those took us to Tyndall AFB for a two week stint flying against the f-15's. Every morning, the F-22's would taxi by our F-16's close enough that we could count the teeth in the pilots mouth as he smiled and waved, lol. They were not using HMD's at that time. It is my recollection from talking to others from Lockheed that the HMD was on the drawing board but was scrapped for the time being due to budget constraints with the understanding that it could be resurrected sometime down the road for future blocks. I believe the year 2011 was a target.

Voice activated commands. . . .not too sure about that either. I heard the almost undetectable "fox" in that video, which neither proves nor disproves the assumption. All it tells me is that the pilot gave an audible "fox" to indicate a missle release, just as we have heard on many other hud camera videos during live fire exercises or actual combat.

I'll see what "Nato" has to say, since he flies them.

[JamesChams]

Gentlemen,

I welcome any input (that's accurate for the actual aircraft; wheather it be a current service Sqd. or development versions) to the developers for this project. Go for it! :applause:

I would like to fly this as close as "FSX possible." :wavey:



EDIT: Except for :crybaby: "drama" inputs.:a1451:

[MenendezDiego]

this should help...
http://198.65.10.229/DID/080116-F-1234P-002.jpg

[dhl1986]

I have a ton of high-res photos of the Raptor I taken at airshows over the past couple years. Let me know if you think they would help. :wavey:

[falcon409]

Wow, how about we check the image size before we post from now on? Try to keep it page size and not wall size, lol.

[Roadburner440]

If there are any photos that wouldn't be consider classified we would be more than happy to get what we can. This is probably the hardest undertaking that we have had to do as far as lack of information. Key things would be the avionics screens so we can accurately represent what is supposed to be there. The one above is a nice picture. We have various materials but I am a firm believer that you can never have to much material to make it right.

[dhl1986]

If there are any photos that wouldn't be consider classified we would be more than happy to get what we can. This is probably the hardest undertaking that we have had to do as far as lack of information. Key things would be the avionics screens so we can accurately represent what is supposed to be there. The one above is a nice picture. We have various materials but I am a firm believer that you can never have to much material to make it right.

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the cockpit (if they let me that close to an F-22, I'm not sure I would be able to resist trying to steal it) - All the Raptors on display at the airshows I have been to were protected by FOD barricades and had two MPs standing watch. The best I could offer are high-res shots of the outside of the plane, and a few of it in action with some vapor.

[JamesChams]

If there are any photos that wouldn't be consider classified we would be more than happy to get what we can.... We have various materials but I am a firm believer that you can never have to much material to make it right.Mr. Steve J. "Roadburner440,"

I assume you at least have these ones (Pic.'s below)? And, this http://www.geocities.com/jiyangc/cockpit.htm pic.'s & info., too?

And please take note of the following statements in the above mentioned website:
It is the first baseline Night Vision Goggle (NVG) compatible cockpit.
It has designed-in growth capability for helmet-mounted systems.

and, this hint about the VC&C, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22_Raptor#Upgrades

"The leading features of the F-22 cockpit include simple and rapid start-up, highly developed HMI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human-Machine_Interface), (Voice user interfaces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_User_Interface), which accept input and provide output by generating voice prompts. The user input is made by pressing keys or buttons, or responding verbally to the interface). Direct Voice Input (DVI) is a style of Human-Machine Interaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface) "HMI" in which the user makes voice commands to issue instructions to the machine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_User_Interface)."

But, I found another confirmation for the VC&C as a requirement for the A.T.F. (i.e. F-22) on an unclassified document here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11607526/F22-Raptor-Americas-Next-Lethal-War-Machine (on the bottom of Page 3)
This document, as a whole, contains a lot of NECESSARY Cockpit avionics and systems pic.'s and technical info.; it would be worth the read, IHMO.

And I found another quote (Dated on Dec '2007), at the bottom of this article: (http://mae.pennnet.com/display_article/315296/32/ARTCL/none/none/1/The-F-35-Joint-Strike-Fighter-to-be-controlled-via-voice-commands/ (http://mae.pennnet.com/display_article/315296/32/ARTCL/none/none/1/The-F-35-Joint-Strike-Fighter-to-be-controlled-via-voice-commands/))
"The F-35 Lightning II is scheduled for initial operation in 2008. If the speech-recognition system proves successful on the F-35, it is likely to be applied to other aircraft, such as the F-22 Raptor and unmanned aerial vehicles."

http://uscockpits.com/Jet%20Fighters/FA-22%20Raptor.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/F-22-raptor-16.jpg


These next two appear to be from a simulator of sorts:

http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m430/mayasahlas/F22_cockpit001.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/photobucketrich/F22_cockpit002.jpg

And I would like to see this effect modeled: "The Sonic Boom Vapor" and an "abrupt stall"

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm220/AnnaMollyMadison/RaptorFlyBy.jpg http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee152/Swairlines/Aviation/f22.jpg

And in keeping with A2A's "Female companion" theme; here is 'Trix' Jamieson

First female F-22 Raptor pilot 'Trix' with impressions of her oxygen mask still showing in her face after high-G Manuevers

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa168/maxtype/Trix0001.jpg

If all this is NOT too much to ask... :kilroy:

Also... a couple of vid.'s from informed sources and a flight Stall with HUD info.

fBUmRd4hKlg&NR=1&fmt=18 qphv_3F4UVA&NR=1&fmt=18

OK; I'm done! :kilroy:

[JamesChams]

And, here are a few Vid.'s with great audio (cone) sound and aerodynamics for flight .air files.:engel016:

Gp9wuqfyOwM&NR=1&fmt=18 jlgVEFs3SMs&NR=1&fmt=18 _Kq43OaTeOY&NR=1&fmt=18

OK, NOW, I'm done. :kilroy:

[wilycoyote4]

Thanks James, very informative, helpful. I hope FSX supports some things.

[VFR Alexander]

Mr. Steve J. "Roadburner440,"

I assume you at least have these ones (Pic.'s below)? And, this http://www.geocities.com/jiyangc/cockpit.htm pic.'s & info., too?

And please take note of the following statements in the above mentioned website:
It is the first baseline Night Vision Goggle (NVG) compatible cockpit.
It has designed-in growth capability for helmet-mounted systems.

and, this hint about the VC&C, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22_Raptor#Upgrades

"The leading features of the F-22 cockpit include simple and rapid start-up, highly developed HMI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human-Machine_Interface), (Voice user interfaces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_User_Interface), which accept input and provide output by generating voice prompts. The user input is made by pressing keys or buttons, or responding verbally to the interface). Direct Voice Input (DVI) is a style of Human-Machine Interaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface) "HMI" in which the user makes voice commands to issue instructions to the machine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_User_Interface)."

But, I found another confirmation for the VC&C as a requirement for the A.T.F. (i.e. F-22) on an unclassified document here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11607526/F22-Raptor-Americas-Next-Lethal-War-Machine (on the bottom of Page 3)
This document, as a whole, contains a lot of NECESSARY Cockpit avionics and systems pic.'s and technical info.; it would be worth the read, IHMO.

And I found another quote (Dated on Dec '2007), at the bottom of this article: (http://mae.pennnet.com/display_article/315296/32/ARTCL/none/none/1/The-F-35-Joint-Strike-Fighter-to-be-controlled-via-voice-commands/ (http://mae.pennnet.com/display_article/315296/32/ARTCL/none/none/1/The-F-35-Joint-Strike-Fighter-to-be-controlled-via-voice-commands/))
"The F-35 Lightning II is scheduled for initial operation in 2008. If the speech-recognition system proves successful on the F-35, it is likely to be applied to other aircraft, such as the F-22 Raptor and unmanned aerial vehicles."



The systems are not in place as of yet.

Fox is a standard code to signal a missile launch, the F-22 will not use a VC&C system or the JHMCS for years to come. It has also been said that any voice control commands would be for default systems only; such as switching the MFD's, etc., Lockheed has no plans at all to incorporate missile launching through voice commands, mainly because it is both delayed and needs confirmation to do any task.

[falcon409]

The systems are not in place as of yet.

Fox is a standard code to signal a missile launch, the F-22 will not use a VC&C system or the JHMCS for years to come. It has also been said that any voice control commands would be for default systems only; such as switching the MFD's, etc., Lockheed has no plans at all to incorporate missile launching through voice commands, mainly because it is both delayed and needs confirmation to do any task.
Thanks for confirming those VFR, much as I stated earlier, however I don't really know what I'm talking about, so having someone else make the same observations is reinforcing, lol. I would also kinda make the observation that we can read any number of articles, watch videos and get inside information from various sources, but unless it comes from an operational unit Officer or one of the engineers on the project, it's simply hearsay. Thanks VFR.

[JamesChams]

The systems are not in place as of yet.

Fox is a standard code to signal a missile launch, the F-22 will not use a VC&C system or the JHMCS for years to come. It has also been said that any voice control commands would be for default systems only; such as switching the MFD's, etc., Lockheed has no plans at all to incorporate missile launching through voice commands, mainly because it is both delayed and needs confirmation to do any task.
I don't want to seem disagreeable by what I've stated... I used public/civilian sources so as NOT to violate any CLASSIFIED restrictions. I also happen to know that some of the features in that software v3.0 which didn't get their upgrade to v3.1 and was pushed back to v3.5 has been cancaled due to budget issues by congress. So, many, if not all of the service sqd.'s won't/don't have these. BUT, Night Vision googles are on ALMOST every one; or so I've been told and a limited version of VC&C exists on ALL. If someone told you its not there, then we know what blanket that falls under - the "CLASSIFIED" one. So, I won't say yeah/nay or debate it with you. Also, "FOX" is NOT a verbal cue by fighter pilots; its FOX1 or FOX2 to distinguish between heat-seeking or passive-homing missiles. FOX was used in that video for the purpose, I mentioned; but you don't have to take my word for it.

But, build the aircraft as best as you know, I will be happy to fly it... :jump::gameon:
However, I will add that if its like the YF-23 ( with default Acceleration gauges, etc.) I WON'T!:gameoff:

[Roadburner440]

Everyone can rest assured that the F-22 will not be like the YF-23. This is why we are going through great lengths to research this project appropriately. We intend on this to be a very highly detailed model.

[VFR Alexander]

I don't want to seem disagreeable by what I've stated... I used public/civilian sources so as NOT to violate any CLASSIFIED restrictions. I also happen to know that some of the features in that software v3.0 which didn't get their upgrade to v3.1 and was pushed back to v3.5 has been cancaled due to budget issues by congress. So, many, if not all of the service sqd.'s won't/don't have these. BUT, Night Vision googles are on ALMOST every one; or so I've been told and a limited version of VC&C exists on ALL. If someone told you its not there, then we know what blanket that falls under - the "CLASSIFIED" one. So, I won't say yeah/nay or debate it with you. Also, "FOX" is NOT a verbal cue by fighter pilots; its FOX1 or FOX2 to distinguish between heat-seeking or passive-homing missiles. FOX was used in that video for the purpose, I mentioned; but you don't have to take my word for it.

But, build the aircraft as best as you know, I will be happy to fly it... :jump::gameon:
However, I will add that if its like the YF-23 ( with default Acceleration gauges, etc.) I WON'T!:gameoff:
Fox + # is what is said after a missile launch to inform others of the type of missile, and that a launch occured.
There is no VC&C on the F-22 fleet, for many reasons:
1. It just isn't there.
2. There are no switches in the cockpit relating to voice control
3. It doesn't help all that much.
4. Cost.

And also, I never denied they have NVG's. They do, and apparently they're pretty heavy.

[JamesChams]

... We intend on this to be a very highly detailed model.Thank you, Mr. Steve J. "Roadburner440"!
I, too, was hoping you'd say and do that; after all, it is still (currently) the best fighter in the world and your model, IMHO, should be as well.:engel016:

L:jump::jump:king forward to it! :wavey:

[falcon409]

Fox + # is what is said after a missile launch to inform others of the type of missile, and that a launch occured.
There is no VC&C on the F-22 fleet, for many reasons:
1. It just isn't there.
2. There are no switches in the cockpit relating to voice control
3. It doesn't help all that much.
4. Cost.

And also, I never denied they have NVG's. They do, and apparently they're pretty heavy.
Gotta love it, thanks VFR.
In fact NVG's are not anything new, our pilots were doing night vis operational training for a year before we went to Balad in 06' and have used them on subsequent deployments ever since. I can't imagine, with his extensive knowledge, that he really meant it was a new piece of equipment.;)

[Roadburner440]

I wish there was a way to realisticly do NVG's or FLIR's in MSFS. Having a FLIR system installed in an aircraft like what we have on our H-60 would be pretty cool. I do not understand the talk of NVG's being heavy though? Granted my only aviation experience has been with helicopters. Ours just look like tiny binoculars that clip onto the front of their helmet and powered by 4 AA batteries. I am sure the Air Force probably has a lot better stuff than we do in the Navy, but I can see just fine out of ours so don't see where there would be any kind of improvement from a larger/bulkier unit.

[CodyValkyrie]

There are different units in use, but generation 3 NVG is standard gear. Even a PVS-14 would be enough for most cockpit situations, even though it isn't a true set of goggles. I know when I was in the USAF, we used the PVS-14 quite a bit, mind you I was not flying aircraft.

The biggest problems I see are the people still using the PVS-7 and other binoculars that while worn on both eyes, direct the image through a signle lense. Pilots lose their sense of depth perception because of that. We even had an A-10 pilot crater into the ground a few miles behind my house in Alaska because he got disoriented when flying in the dark. At the time, they used the PVS-7 NVG suite.

[JamesChams]

Gents,

I though that I would shed a little more "light" (Night Vision Light :p:) on the NVG found here (bottom of the page): http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/1998/articles/jan_98/jan4a_98.html

"NVGs have not been neglected in new aircraft design. The F-22 is the first aircraft to include NVG-compatible cockpit and exterior lighting in its baseline design. The Joint Strike Fighter will be similarly equipped."

and this one: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-22-cockpit.htm

(Top of Page)

"It is the first baseline "night vision goggle" compatible cockpit, and it has designed-in growth capability for helmet-mounted systems (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/#)."

(bottom of page in section titles Lighting)
"The cockpit interior lighting is fully Night Vision Goggle (NVG) compatible, as is the exterior lighting..."

And, I found a video that confirms it: http://www.acc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070410-007.wmv (http://www.acc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070410-007.wmv)


The LCD are also designed to be used with NVG; but I couldn't find a documented source that verifies which version of NVG they are using. But, I can ask and see if someone will tell? :kilroy:

[dhl1986]

Hm. Well it turns out I don't have near as many photos of the 22 as I thought. Here are the quality shots from my (small) collection, hope they help.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1933/dobbinsairshow24.jpg

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1355/dobbinsairshow23.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1492/dobbinsairshow25.jpg

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2339/dobbinsairshow19.jpg

[MenendezDiego]

lol, that one looks familiar! I have about 100 shots of this bird up close

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v346/237/26/805540625/n805540625_4720109_939.jpg

Heard from the daughter of the VP at Lockheed in Marrietta that the F-35 program will be moved there. No more F-22's (sad) but what the heck, I hear the JSF are loud!

[dhl1986]

lol, that one looks familiar! I have about 100 shots of this bird up close

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v346/237/26/805540625/n805540625_4720109_939.jpg

Heard from the daughter of the VP at Lockheed in Marrietta that the F-35 program will be moved there. No more F-22's (sad) but what the heck, I hear the JSF are loud!

Excellent shot! lol!

And if that news is true, you have just made me the happiest guy in Atlanta. I am down here in Roswell and have heard some especially thunderous traffic lately. Traffic departing from runway 11 at Dobbins comes pretty close to my apartment.

[Sixghost]

Why debating on NVG capability on Raptors? Wouldn't be plain ridiculous for the claimed to be Fighter not having it? Every Nato aircraft must have it as a standard to operate in war zones and it's beginning to become a standard on every operating aircraft.

And probably that "Fox" only is said because the missile is just an inert version with no guidance system of any kind.

BTW, very nice work there Milviz, you keep on impressing us! Good luck with hunting infos, I'm in the same situation myself, I know how it's frustrating!

[MenendezDiego]

lol well I did hear it from the VP's daughter, who went and asked for me lol. She came back, 'yep, he said they are moving production to Marrietta, something about the assembly parts being similar, that it'd be more economical'

So I'm guessing you've seen the primered F-22A's right? The green ones? lol

[SkippyBing]

Yeah, all NVG compatible means is that it doesn't radiate light in the frequency range the goggles use to see. NVG basically operate at the upper limits of the visual light band and into the low IR area, hence warm things show up slightly better under NVG. There's also a 'notch' at a certain frequency that lets through the HUD display as green light isn't normally visible.
As long as the cockpit lighting is in the range the goggles don't see you won't get blooming, you actually have the instrument lights reasonably bright on goggles as you have to switch from looking though the goggles to see outside to looking under them to see the instruments. For flying goggles are focused at infinity so you can see outside the cockpit, if you look inside everything is blurred.
The main advantage with having two tubes is that if one goes u/s you can still see! You don't actually get that much perception of depth with NVGs due to various factors including the monochrome picture, lack of shadows etc. The eyes aren't actually far enough apart to give you good depth perception more than a few feet away anyway, most of it comes from life experience giving you cues. I.e. you know how big trees are, until it turns out they're saplings and the hill is much closer than you thought, which has caused incidents in the past.
It's like I did an NVG course or something...

[VFR Alexander]

Why debating on NVG capability on Raptors? Wouldn't be plain ridiculous for the claimed to be Fighter not having it? Every Nato aircraft must have it as a standard to operate in war zones and it's beginning to become a standard on every operating aircraft.

And probably that "Fox" only is said because the missile is just an inert version with no guidance system of any kind.

BTW, very nice work there Milviz, you keep on impressing us! Good luck with hunting infos, I'm in the same situation myself, I know how it's frustrating!

The raptors do have NVG's, just not the others systems mentioned. It would be a bit silly for it not to have them.

[dhl1986]

lol well I did hear it from the VP's daughter, who went and asked for me lol. She came back, 'yep, he said they are moving production to Marrietta, something about the assembly parts being similar, that it'd be more economical'

So I'm guessing you've seen the primered F-22A's right? The green ones? lol


No, I have only seen one Raptor coming out of Dobbins (Not counting the ones during the airshow) and it was at about 5,000 ft by the time it got to me. I have gone spotting from Cobb Parkway several times, but have only caught C-130s. Do you know of a good time to go see some action?

[JamesChams]

The only question I have, at the moment, about all this is...

"Whose the ugly guy with the camera?"

:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

[MenendezDiego]

Please James, you don't want to hear my rebuttal

[wilycoyote4]

What about fuel tanks under the wings?

[XLR8]

Got this stuff sent to me from a "friend ".Hope it helps.

I asked a few question that were not clasified,that he could answer.
Is the HUD green ? Pilot can change color,green ,red clear.

Detail of curent cockpit today.Pic #9
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=20396 (http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=20396)

YF-22 pit.
http://www.geocities.com/jiyangc/cockpit2.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/jiyangc/cockpit2.jpg)

Will go fishing with him next weekend.

[dhl1986]

Got this stuff sent to me from a "friend ".Hope it helps.

I asked a few question that were not clasified,that he could answer.
Is the HUD green ? Pilot can change color,green ,red clear.

Detail of curent cockpit today.Pic #9
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=20396 (http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=20396)

YF-22 pit.
http://www.geocities.com/jiyangc/cockpit2.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/jiyangc/cockpit2.jpg)

Will go fishing with him next weekend.

Man, that is very embarrassing for Lockheed.

http://images.spaceref.com/news/2006/f22.38.jpg

Just look at this guys face. Pissed off is an understatement.

[Rezabrya]

Hey! At least he gets to fly an F-22 right?

[Gibbage]

Thats some THICK THICK glass!

[wilycoyote4]

http://www.f22fighter.com/cockpit.htm#Canopy
"...............The 3/4" polycarbonate transparency is actually made of two 3/8" thick sheets that are heated and fusion bonded (the sheets actually meld to become a single-piece article) and then drape forged."........................

[Gibbage]

Very cool sight! Im rather shocked that just the canopy is 360lbs. You learn something new every day!

[falcon409]

Basically the same composition as the F-16 transparencies. They appear rather thin but when you have to remove one for being written up by the pilot and replace with a new one, you get to see just how thick they actually are. The current transparencies are rated to take a bird strike at 550kts and withstand that impact. The polycarbonate construction is pretty resilient.

[dhl1986]

Hey! At least he gets to fly an F-22 right?


Hahaha, yeah, you are right. Very hard to have sympathy for him.

[XLR8]

Thats some THICK THICK glass!


When I worked out there they would test the canopy's with chickens and these rubber balls to test them.

[JamesChams]

The poor guy spent 5 hours in there (cockpit) stuck, before they got him out... Anyone, would be a little fed-up waiting that long. :kilroy:

[Slug Flyer]

The poor guy spent 5 hours in there (cockpit) stuck, before they got him out... Anyone, would be a little fed-up waiting that long. :kilroy:

Another hour and he probably would have just said "Screw it" and pulled the eject lever. :d

[MenendezDiego]

Very cool sight! Im rather shocked that just the canopy is 360lbs. You learn something new every day!

I opened an F-4D Canopy the other day (Display F-4D at a museum) so ofcourse no hyrdolics to help her open...it was a DUZY! Had to weight atleast 160 pounds of glass and frame. I never would have thought

[Roadburner440]

Yeah the polycarbonates and plastics in general are pretty amazing. Being a structural mechanic that is my job on the H-60. The poly windows are pretty thin and light on ours, but we only use them on the side windows. The front pilot/co-pilot windshield is a newer style automotive type glass and the center window is about 3/4" thick plastic. I've never seen a bird go through them, but if you get up over 150 knots in one of our birds you are lucky. So no need for the heavy stuff here on my end. I think all composites are pretty fascinating. The fact you can take a sheet of cloth, layer it together, and impregnate it with resin to make a strong/resilient solid panel is still amazing to me. To think they make entire aircraft out of the stuff now. :cool:

[falcon409]

I opened an F-4D Canopy the other day (Display F-4D at a museum) so ofcourse no hyrdolics to help her open...it was a DUZY! Had to weight atleast 160 pounds of glass and frame. I never would have thought
While we still had F-4's in the late 80's, winter brought on the inevitable air bottle leaks and since the canopy system on the F-4 is pneudraulic it meant manhandling those babies every morning til the crew dogs could get the bottles serviced, lol. Trying to hold in the "open" button and get your fingers under the frame enough to start raising it was a real B___h, lol.

[MenendezDiego]

While we still had F-4's in the late 80's, winter brought on the inevitable air bottle leaks and since the canopy system on the F-4 is pneudraulic it meant manhandling those babies every morning til the crew dogs could get the bottles serviced, lol. Trying to hold in the "open" button and get your fingers under the frame enough to start raising it was a real B___h, lol.

lol oh trust me, I experienced just that. "How far does this damn open button go!!!" Good times :)