Diving sound

[robert41]

What exactly makes that unique sound when a ww2 aircraft dives? Like you hear in the movies all the time, I heard it once in real life at an airshow. A p51 diving almost straight down for a few seconds.

[idancesafetydance]

That was really only heard on the Stuka dive bombers... They had whistles on the wheel-pants that at high speed (in a dive) Created that exact sound, just to send terror into the people about to get dive bombed upon. Hollywood just adds those for fancy holly-wood-ness.

[Mick]

That was really only heard on the Stuka dive bombers... They had whistles on the wheel-pants that at high speed (in a dive) Created that exact sound, just to send terror into the people about to get dive bombed upon. Hollywood just adds those for fancy holly-wood-ness.

Well, if he heard it coming from a Mustang, it's not the Stuka siren that he's asking about.

I recon it's a combination of whatever things a particular plane has sticking out into the airstream, combined with the prop and engine racing faster than usual.

The Stuka's siren was a lot louder, and sounded like what it was - a siren.

[phantomx1]

If it is the winding up sound you are referring to I would have to suggest it is the sound of the prop biting into the air. Also, at what angle the plane's prop disc is in reference to the listener.

If this is what you are referring to, next time you see a plane doing several level complete turns you can hear the wind up sound and the sound pitch change as the prop disc changes angle to the listener.

If you were standing on the ground and a plane continuously circled you, keeping it's wingtip always pointed to you, the prop disc would be in line with you. As it circled you would hear the loud prop noise but the sound pitch would always remain constant. As he breaks out of the circle and flys straight you would hear a loud prop that begins decreasing in volume and in pitch due to the prop disc's angle to you.

Same stuff at work when a plane is heading towards you. As it approaches the volume begins to clime as well as the sound pitch.

Sounds like this: Like the sound of a glass bottle way down low on the G string on the guitar then slide the glass bottle up the scales. And as the plane passes, slide the bottle down the scales on the G string on the guitar.

[brad kaste]

...The Japanese referred to the Corsair as "Whistling Death." That would be the sound of air rushing through the two wing root air intakes.

[OBIO]

Is this the sound you are talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQd7id9hNbg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideosearch%3 Fhl%3Den%26source%3Dhp%26q%3Dmustang%2520diving%26 um%3D1%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwv&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDZ8BsWggg0&feature=related

These videos of a P-51D in a dive clearly demonstrates the whine like sound that a plane can generate during a dive. While I am not totally sure of the dynamics behind the sound, I do believe that it is caused in part by the high speed air entering the radiator opening. On the Corsair, which had twin oil cooler openings in the leading edge of the wings, this sound did in fact earn the plane the name Whistling Death.

OBIO

[Tom Clayton]

I seem to remember someone saying something about the gun barrels whistling in the wind, but I can't be certain.

[Matt Wynn]

yeah its to do with openings on the airframe, i believe, air has to travel over the ports and due to their size and dimension it makes a whistling note, if you blow over the top of a bottle you get a dull sound, same thing applies to aircraft air travelling over a hole and resonating

[Terry]

I seem to remember someone saying something about the gun barrels whistling in the wind, but I can't be certain.

Your right, there was a lengthy thread on this subject which is probably lost. Someone, perhaps Lawdog, did a sound effect for the P-51 whistle which sounds great when doing a high speed flyby from tower view. That should still be on the server somewhere.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

... Someone, perhaps Lawdog, did a sound effect for the P-51 whistle which sounds great...

Oh yes, it does!
Quoted from the readme of this package (created by "fnerg"):
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/index.php?lloc=downloads&loc=downloads&page=info&FileID=10255#download

P-51 Mustang Sounds for Wozza's P51 - By Doug Smith
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
After months of intensive research through hours of Youtube videos, and parameter adjusting by ear, I give you the sounds of the P51 Mustang's Merlin Engine for Warick Carter's excellent P-51 v.2.
A special feature of this sound pack is the ability to "turn" the hi RPM gunport whistle on/off. At full throttle in spot or tower view, the whistle is heard. By easing back the throttle by a degree, the sound fades. Flypasts are awesome!!!!( I must say..) However the whistle would be annoying to hear all the time. This is why I have adjusted the parameters to shut off the whistle as an option.

[Alain_F355]

I think it is the prop because I have never heard a jetfighter make that sound.

[Motormouse]

I think it is the prop because I have never heard a jetfighter make that sound.

Sometimes called the 'blue' note....Hawker Hunters,and Dh Vampire/Venom will do it, the Canberra (ok so its' a bomber) only used to whistle when speedbrakes were deployed.

ttfn

Pete

[Desert Rat]

The Boomerang also has this phenomenon, gunports, etc.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vy47Z12Lsw4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vy47Z12Lsw4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

The AH model replicates this quite well too, IIRC.

My Fav is the JF Vulcan when you open the speed brakes, a great screemin banshee.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VWhuDBjPrRg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VWhuDBjPrRg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[LouP]

Yep, empty gun barrel openings. And I do believe that the only one that did that originally with all the guns installed was the JU87 by design as mentioned here.

Now I want to go fly my boomerang but the Pats are on LOL :running:

LouP

and how did they ever do that (the game that is) ;)

[Bomber_12th]

On the P-51 Mustang, owner/pilot Jim Beasley actually confirmed that the whistling noise comes from the gun barrels. From his experience, depending on if there are gun chutes or not, and the orientation of the guns themselves, the whistling occurs even in level flight - and it can be heard within the cockpit, even through the noise of the engine. In order to check that it was indeed the guns making the noise, he taped over the gun barrels, and this seemed to cutout the sound completely.

Some other great sounds, that develop from aircraft surfaces, and not dealing with engines, are the musical-notes that come from flying wires on aircraft such as the recently flying Hawker Demon in England, which you can hear within some YouTube videos.

[robert41]

Hi everyone. First I would like to thank you for all the replies. This sound Iam seeking is not the whistle from the gun ports Ive heard before. That particular p51 was flying at a small airport doing very tight loops and made this sound only for about 3 or 4 seconds when diving almost straight down. The sound happened only that one time during the performance and did not have the gun port whistle.

[Matt Wynn]

was the engine note increasing if so could be the supercharger/vent on the underside inhaling more air

[Bomber_12th]

Okay Robert, I now know what you mean. I know this sound effect was made very popular in old movies, even though in almost all cases it isn't an accurate portrayal - making it rather annoying sometimes - the most popular being when an aircraft goes into a downward spiral, and as it picks up speed the siren-like noise gets louder and louder.

I don't know any definitive answers, but I would hazard a guess that it has to due with there being so much more air resistance over the entire aircraft, and especially in the air trying to pass through the arc of the prop, as a prop aircraft dives to extreme airspeeds.

There have been a few soundsets made for flight-sim warbirds, that feature this sound effect as the aircraft's speed increases.

[robert41]

Yes that sound is very well used in old war movies, mostly when a plane is shot down. I am thinking like you B12, that it is air moving through the prop at high speed and/or the prop at a very high speed.

[Matt Wynn]

in theory the only sound coming from the prop is a rumble due to the tips travelling supersonic, i'm sticking by my guns though on gun ports, remember plane dives, speed increases now blow over the lip of a glass bottle gently at first this is low speed, blow harder it is high speed and produces a rather dull note (this is due to the movement of the sound waves inside the bottle after they pass the neck), now find a pocket fan blow into it while it is on... you'll hear a rumbling noise.... while not supersonic it is the same principle...

[Terry]

As most of the old war movies use the same or similar sound for any diving or crashing plane, I suspect it's just the movie directors dubbing in stock sound for effect. The sound probably originated from an old biplane with lots of wires singing in the wind. Or perhaps the sound is faked to begin with.

[fliger747]

In the early biplane Helldivers (Curtiss) the wind in the bracing wires was somewhat responsible. Indeed the STUKA's used a siren. I'll agree with a previous scrivner that the prop tips going supersonic may be a large contributor here. Listen to the windup sound of a Cessna 185 with a two blade seaplane prop takeoff and you get the idea.

Cheers: t