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View Full Version : Internet slowly wakes up to PayPal's quiet fee hike



hey_moe
August 19th, 2009, 15:23
PayPal has generated its fair share of controversies (http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2008/09/ebay-fuels-fires-of-resentment-with-new-paypal-only-policy.ars) over the years, but it has begun to stir up another one by adding new transaction fees that affect all customers—without telling anyone about them. The company slipped the fees in with a more general update to its "send money" service in June, but because the changes were so well hidden, the Internet has been slow to wake up to what amounts to a huge increase in PayPal's income.
Under the previous system, fees were charged based on the type of account the receiver was using as well as where the money was coming from. If the receiver was a premium or business account owner, he or she was charged 30¢ plus 2.9 percent of the transaction—the same applied to all accounts if the money was coming from a credit or debit card instead of a PayPal balance or directly from a bank account. People using personal accounts could make all these payments to anyone else for free.
In June, PayPal made a number of changes to its User Agreement and posted an update to the PayPal Blog. At that time, director of product marketing Heinz Waelchli wrote (https://www.thepaypalblog.com/2009/06/paypal-send-money-updates/) that PayPal had now begun allowing those with business and premium accounts to make personal transfers to friends and family for free. This, in itself, is a welcome update—I use my PayPal account to receive payments for items I sell on Etsy, but now I can send money to my brother from the same account without either of us having to give PayPal a cut.
What PayPal failed to do was inform users of the fact that any transfer having to do with goods or services will be charged the 3¢ + 2.9 percent fee no matter who or where it's coming from. This includes payments sent from personal accounts as well as payments made after someone has sent you a request for payment (even if that request has nothing to do with goods or services).
For example, a personal account sending another personal account money for a one-time payment for, say, mowing your lawn was not previously charged any fees on either side, but is now charged the usual transaction fee (the sender gets to decide who pays). The only way to avoid this is by selecting "gift" when making the transfer—something you can't do if you're following through on a purchase or invoice from someone. And, if you fall into this category (which many people do), it's likely that you had no idea about the changes until just now.
On the one hand, PayPal insists that it made the changes clear to customers via e-mail and a "formal notice" (aka legalese (https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_update-policy&login_access=1249929184&login_access=1250691671) buried deep within the bowels of paypal.com and behind the login wall), but it only takes a bit (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/paypal-fees-change-428028/) of digging (http://www.gadgetell.com/tech/comment/paypal-adds-new-fees-with-no-notice/) around (http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/08/19/paypal-doubles-fee/) to discover that this issue was obviously not clearly communicated at all. When pressed for a reason for being so quiet about the changes, PayPal PR manager Charlotte Hill told PC World (http://www.pcworld.com/article/169843/paypal_adds_fees_sneakily.html), "We didn't want to make a huge formal communication out of this pricing change, because we weren't really adding any fees, and we were hoping it would be a more useful experience for people."
Well, it appears as if the lack of a "huge formal communication" has now begun to anger users, as it comes off as a shady way to hide the addition of fees to mass numbers of transactions. Sure, users would have been irritated either way, but doesn't PayPal know that the way to handle bad PR is to be the first one to control the message? People value openness and transparency—especially when bad news is involved. Now, those controlling the message are other, ticked off users, and that won't be an easy one to clean up after.

OBIO
August 19th, 2009, 15:38
That's funny...I didn't receive an e-mail concerning this change in policy. Did anyone else receive an e-mail from Pal Pal concerning this? Somehow, I think that the answer is going to be NO!

OBIO

GT182
August 19th, 2009, 15:59
I qot rid of my PayPal account about 3 years ago as it was hacked by someone. Never got another and I'm glad. :d

Tako_Kichi
August 19th, 2009, 16:11
I never got an email either.

Wittpilot
August 19th, 2009, 16:13
2 Things..

1.) Can you really trust any email notice that says it's from "PayPal"? Heck, I would go plum dead broke in a week if I listened to anything sent to me alleging they were PayPal... and I think PayPal should be aware of that...

2.) I, like many others, only use paypal for use on eBay... While I know many may have complaints and such, I think having a third party to handle financial transactions with a stranger online is a good idea. Fingers crossed, but I haven't had a problem with paypal yet. So, how is this going to affect purchases on eBay???

GT182
August 19th, 2009, 16:18
EBay owns PayPal. That's whay they only want you to use PayPa when you winl.... nothing else. To use a money Order or some other means of payment you must get ahold of the seller and make arrangements with them outside of EBay.

Willy
August 19th, 2009, 17:06
I quit using PayPal a few years ago. If PayPal is required for a transaction with me, there just won't be one.

N2056
August 19th, 2009, 17:34
Just another reason I never used it to begin with! :icon_lol:

Wing_Z
August 19th, 2009, 19:00
I didn't get an email, and haven't noticed any difference in my transactions.

Why mount a campaign against PayPal?

It works fine for me, and certainly beats dishing out credit card information to every flybynight I buy stuff from online :d
And, because I don't have to "Join" every website I buy from, my spam count is negligible, too. Apart from offers to update personal particulars on bogus "PayPal" websites, that is...;)

Lionheart
August 19th, 2009, 19:32
I have been aware of a 4% charge on all 'Send Money' transactions. I pay my team (all but one) via PayPal and all of my company royalties come through PayPal, even vendors in Europe pay through PayPal.

So far, its been pretty good. I didnt know about free transactions, lol.. Ive been paying 4% for a couple of years now. arrgh.. But thats to team mates and all.

I kind of wish they had a Bank system by now. I would like to have saving accounts through them. If only banks worked similar with such flexibility at PayPal.


I am sorry though that the free transactions are going away. I wish I had known about them.



Bill

Terry
August 20th, 2009, 02:26
I got an email from them yesterday. When I clicked on their link IE7 warned me it was a phishing site. I never went to their site and have no idea whats's going on.

deKoven
August 20th, 2009, 03:36
I didn't get an email, and haven't noticed any difference in my transactions.

Why mount a campaign against PayPal?

It works fine for me, and certainly beats dishing out credit card information to every flybynight I buy stuff from online :d
And, because I don't have to "Join" every website I buy from, my spam count is negligible, too. Apart from offers to update personal particulars on bogus "PayPal" websites, that is...;)

Hmm, I did get an email from PayPal. I've used Pp for several years now and have zero complaints about PayPal itself, and have had only a couple about the people I've dealt with through them. I did have a bogus "PayPal" email; sent it to themselves and got back a real nice ack about them wishing others would do same so that they could pursue the perps through legal means.

:ernae:

cheezyflier
August 20th, 2009, 05:40
paypal is a pita. i won't use it, and that's why i don't buy stuff on ebay.

Lateral-G
August 20th, 2009, 06:02
paypal's 4% fee is just like any other CC user fee for the seller. If you, as a seller, were to take a CC as form of payment you'd have to fork over 4% to VISA or MC. That's how they (the CC companies) make their money.

As a buyer, however, I should never have to pay a fee to use paypal. Of course it seems that paypal is moving towards being another credit card type of instrument whereby they charge user fees no matter if you are a seller or buyer. As a buyer, if you have a CC then you often have to pay a yearly fee anyway (although most saavy CC users go to cards with no annual fee)

I can't say I fault paypal for trying to make a profit. Afterall they provide a service and you have the choice of using it or not. In the end it smacks of greed. Pure and simple. Plus they are feeling the hurt in todays economy like all other businesses and as usual the final recourse is to screw the consumer. In the end they are the ones who pay.

-G-

cheezyflier
August 20th, 2009, 09:39
for me it's nearly unuseable.

i live in canadia. my credit card is drawn on an american bank. i cannot sign up this card with my canadian address. i cannot get a canadian credit card because i don't have a job, and haven't had one for 3 years. if i create an american paypal acct with that credit card, i have to create an address i don't really live at, mail the $$ to texas to pay the c.c. and it frequently gets lost. i can't pay the bank because they charge me $40 transaction fee to cash a foreign postal money order even though it is already in U.S. funds.

Wittpilot
August 20th, 2009, 17:00
I can see how that would be a real pain in the keester Cheezyflyer... Like I said, I really only use it for eBay purchases, although I have used it for just one or two other things. It is nice on eBay because your payment is instant, and it takes out that old delay of the seller waiting for your payment to arrive another way.