F6-F aircraft

[Helldiver]

The latest issue of Flight Journal has a nice close up of a F6-F with a nice showroom shine. Just as it should be. It shows the reflection of the clouds and skyline. The wings capture the reflections of the stars and bars and the aircraft number on the fuselage.
I don't see this on Real Flight's version of the Hellcat. It has a dull satin non - reflecting finish on it.
I don't know where they ever got the hard points inboard of the landing gear to place their bombs. We had hard points out side of the landing gear.
Most common is 250 gallon centerline tank that was hard wired into the plane. The pilots could not drop it. Out board of that would be two droppable tanks of 150 gallons.
For some reason, the hatch, where the starter cartridges are stored, pops open with the cowl flaps. The frame work around the cockpit is scant in thickness.
It's pretty good for a foreigners version of the aircraft but it still needs a lot of work

[Henry]

Thanks for the review!
checks in the mail
sorry sense of humor gets the best of me
from time to time
H

[stiz]

The latest issue of Flight Journal has a nice close up of a F6-F with a nice showroom shine. Just as it should be. It shows the reflection of the clouds and skyline. The wings capture the reflections of the stars and bars and the aircraft number on the fuselage.
I don't see this on Real Flight's version of the Hellcat. It has a dull satin non - reflecting finish on it.



in my opion the real flight hellcat is overly shiny, i know the late hellcats where painting in gloss, and might have been kept spick and span on some ships, but in all the photos i've seen they've all got a reflitivly mat finish.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/Stiz987/Concord_CA_F6F_43.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/Stiz987/F6F_VF-11_CV-12_1945.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/Stiz987/hellcat.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/Stiz987/usp5.jpg

:engel016:

[MudMarine]

Looks perfectly shiny to me!

[deathfromafar]

Like any aircraft of that type, they come out of the paint shop with specular shines and after a while being exposed to the sun and elements they oxidize into more of a matte finish. I used to work in a aircraft paint shop for a year many moons ago and saw the different degrees by which finishes were affected in this manner. After that, I became heavily involved in fine scale plastic modeling/airbrushing and found myself in many discussions on how to model certain paint effects onto the model subject and properly weather it. More or less the same when it comes to painting these FS models. How much of which stage of the paint's life do you want to model in?

[GT182]

On a bright sunny day a glossy paint job will give you away.... to the enemy.

[Prowler1111]

Just a comment..sometimes we forget that most of the textures and effects applied to a given model are limited to sim´s engine..in this case, FSX is a huge leap forward in comparison with FS9, but it does have it´s limits, and it fails miserably trying to represent REAL LIFE effects, but is stellar in giving a very close rendition...
Prowler

[Helldiver]

For one thing your talking about pre 1944 three toned paint jobs.
The U.S. Navy found that he aircraft's speed went up with a shiny surface. I'm taking about the all blue surfaces.
As far as exposure, the aircraft's life would be three to six months and it went back into A&R for reconditioning.
I was stationed in Florida where the sun is merciless. You never saw a dull paint job on a Hellcat sitting around anywhere. Nor did I ever see them on the carrier.

[JimC1702]

I visited your town a few weeks ago Bob. We stayed in Peabody and visited Salem, Newburyport, Gloucester, and Rockport. Had a good time in spite of soggy weather.

Jim

[Helldiver]

I lived in West Peabody for 26 years. I was raised in Salem and Beverly. You were here at the worst of the summer. Summer happened this week and right now it's 86 degrees and sunny.

[Quixoticish]

It's pretty good for a foreigners version of the aircraft but it still needs a lot of work


So this comment doesn't irk anyone else? :mad:

[Gibbage]

I don't know where they ever got the hard points inboard of the landing gear to place their bombs. We had hard points out side of the landing gear.
Most common is 250 gallon centerline tank that was hard wired into the plane. The pilots could not drop it. Out board of that would be two droppable tanks of 150 gallons.


Are you so sure about this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/F6F-3_fighters_landing_on_USS_Enterprise_%28CV-6%29.jpg

http://www.gibbageart.com/files/nasm_f6f_02.jpg

http://www.gibbageart.com/files/f6fbomb.jpg

They clearly look like they are inside of the wheel well.

[Helldiver]

I've seen a coupla hundred Hellcats and started up probably a hundred or so but there's always something I never saw before. I never saw bombs mounted that way and it would take some doing to tie into the wing spar. It certainly was not popular with the troops.
Chief, when you were in Newburyport did you visit Plum Island airport?

[Gibbage]

I've seen a coupla hundred Hellcats and started up probably a hundred or so but there's always something I never saw before. I never saw bombs mounted that way and it would take some doing to tie into the wing spar. It certainly was not popular with the troops.
Chief, when you were in Newburyport did you visit Plum Island airport?

There were lift points there for jacks, and the bomb mounts bolted into the jack points. It was standard on all F6F's, but they served more of a fighter roll then ground support, so I can see it not being used often for bombs, but it was used often for drop tanks to extend range.

[Henry]

So this comment doesn't irk anyone else? :mad:
only by the definition of foreigner
i believe us Brits had a version
maybe he meant Portuguese?
no disrespect there either
as i stated
one must have a sense of humor
or just bang your head on a wall
H:kilroy::kilroy:

[Gibbage]

The US gave the French a bunch of Hellcats after the war.

[JimC1702]

I've seen a coupla hundred Hellcats and started up probably a hundred or so but there's always something I never saw before. I never saw bombs mounted that way and it would take some doing to tie into the wing spar. It certainly was not popular with the troops.
Chief, when you were in Newburyport did you visit Plum Island airport?


No, I regret that I didn't get to the Plum Island airport. I did see signs though. :)

Jim

[Pips]

Either way it's still a beautiful aeroplane. It just looks sooooo right! :applause:

[JIMJAM]

Some good info and pretty pics but has anyone actually flown the Real Flight F6 yet? Comparisons to A2A and other warbirds? Performance,sounds?

I am either getting this one or the F-102 that just came out.
I left behind all my cold war era jets with FS9 so I am puliin towards the Delta.

[Scratch]

Some good info and pretty pics but has anyone actually flown the Real Flight F6 yet? Comparisons to A2A and other warbirds? Performance,sounds?

I am either getting this one or the F-102 that just came out.
I left behind all my cold war era jets with FS9 so I am puliin towards the Delta.

I have the Real Flight Hellcat and am 100% satisfied and I am pretty hard to please.

[PRB]

I agree with Scratch. Great plane. There are some negative opinions of this plane floating around this forum, some having to do with the textures, and some with the flight model. I'm quite happy with both. One of my favorite FSX planes.

[MudMarine]

I agree with Scratch. Great plane. There are some negative opinions of this plane floating around this forum, some having to do with the textures, and some with the flight model. I'm quite happy with both. One of my favorite FSX planes.

You're right P, the Hellcat is a great plane! One of my favorites still! There are just too many nit-pickers around here!

[yago9]

I agree with Scratch. Great plane. There are some negative opinions of this plane floating around this forum, some having to do with the textures, and some with the flight model. I'm quite happy with both. One of my favorite FSX planes.

Real Flight F6 ?Love it but I,ll show you what,s wrong with it .They used same texture file on both sides wich is unforgivable for a high end model.Default FSX planes have mirrored textures wich drives painters insane.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/yago9/F6.jpg

[Gibbage]

Yaho9, its not the entire aircraft, but just a small section just behind the canopy that is mirrored. And its only on the -5, leading me to think its from removing the windows on the -3.

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

They did no such thing, there is one little spot just behind the canopy i am told where there is a possible glitch , there are no mirrored textures on any of the included paints.

[SpaceWeevil]

They did no such thing, there is one little spot just behind the canopy i am told where there is a possible glitch , there are no mirrored textures on any of the included paints.

Chuck - much respect as I love the Hellcat to bits, but there appears to be mirrored writing on at least two of the Fleet Air Arm paints. The 'NO STEP' 'GUNS' and 'AMMUNITION BOXES' stencils are back to front on one wing. I can't upload pics just now but I'm not imagining it!

Still and all, the deep shine and the sense that this is a stressed-skin aeroplane are done amazingly well, probably the best I've ever seen.

[RobH]

Chuck - much respect as I love the Hellcat to bits, but there appears to be mirrored writing on at least two of the Fleet Air Arm paints. The 'NO STEP' 'GUNS' and 'AMMUNITION BOXES' stencils are back to front on one wing. I can't upload pics just now but I'm not imagining it!

Spaceweevil, In my opinion the wings aren't mirrored, they are just a "flipped version of the other wing. The right wing uses the same texture sheet as the left wing. As you problably noticed on those 2 FAA paints that the camoflauge is the same on both wings.

I may have this backwards, but I believe the right wing texture is just a "flipped" version of the left wing, that is why the lettering is backwards on the right wing, and that the camoflauge is the same on both wings. Just a minor oversite by the painter.

I caught this and fixed the writing on the repaints that I have done for the RF Hellcat.

I can't wait to get my replacement video card today, so I can fly her some more. Thanks again Real Flight!!:ernae:

[SpaceWeevil]

That makes sense, and it's only the FAA paints anyway - a minor blemish on a real stunner.

[Cobra8472]

Text error is my fault! My apologies!

The shine was a matter of great discussion during testing and development. I think we struck a decent balance- although a tad of more shineyness would've been alright too :icon_lol:

Nick

[VCN-1]

Text error is my fault! My apologies!

Nick

From what I have seen a couple of the re-painters saw that and corrected it on their releases. Seemed simple enough to fix.

BTW IMHO it is a great release and was long overdue.

My thanks to all those who were involved in its creation.

VCN-1

[Henry]

It is one of my favorites also!
There is a program by Ivan Hsu
that will shine the model also
but i do not know if it works on true fsx models
ill tinker:kilroy::kilroy:
H

[PRB]

Interesting discussion about the “shinnyness” of the F6F, both real and the one from RealFlight. My RealFlight Hellcat sometimes appears to be quite shinny indeed, under the right light conditions, as can be seen in this pic. The shinny effect here is not “photo real”, where the reflective effects are “baked” into the texture file, they are “real”, meaning the FSX graphics engine is doing it, and it changes as you move the plane around, as it should, and “photo real” does not. In other lighting conditions, it does not appear shinny like that at all, but appears more like the photos posted here of real Hellcats in WW-II. So I wonder just how dull those dull F6Fs really were, in real life living color..?

http://www.prbsystems.com/pics/f6f3.jpg

[yago9]

Yaho9, its not the entire aircraft, but just a small section just behind the canopy that is mirrored. And its only on the -5, leading me to think its from removing the windows on the -3.


Gibbage,a mirrored textures is a mirrored texture and it doesn,t belong on such a sweet model or any other payware for that matter.If i need to paint any spot of that aircraft I should be able to do it correctly .

[yago9]

It is one of my favorites also!
There is a program by Ivan Hsu
that will shine the model also
but i do not know if it works on true fsx models
ill tinker:kilroy::kilroy:
H


Great tool for Fs9 but no,it doesn,t work on true FSX models.

[Scratch]

If I was blessed enough to own a Hellcat in real life, like I pretend to do in FSX with the Real Flight Hellcat, I would lovingly polish that sucker with pride. What I see in the sim is pretty much how I would like it to look. That to me is more important than how it looked in theatre. If this were a combat sim maybe I would feel slightly different, but it wouldn't be a show stopper for me. I have seen Hellcats in museums and I was lucky enough to see one fly over my house one day doing touch and gos for almost an hour and what I see in the Real Flight Hellcat is as close to perfection as I could ever want.
The way the external textures came out raised the bar for others to follow. That doesn't happen too often.

[Gibbage]

Gibbage,a mirrored textures is a mirrored texture and it doesn,t belong on such a sweet model or any other payware for that matter.If i need to paint any spot of that aircraft I should be able to do it correctly .

What I was pointing out is you made it to sound like the entire aircraft was mirrored, and that it was on all models, when in fact, its just a very small section on one model.

[fliger747]

Most of the warbirds are painted in a shiny paint like IMRON. The period aircraft were somewhat dull/matt if in the three tone paint. Late war aircraft in the dark navy blue were reasonably shiney.

Cheers: T.

[yago9]

What I was pointing out is you made it to sound like the entire aircraft was mirrored, and that it was on all models, when in fact, its just a very small section on one model.

No I didn,t said anything to make it sound like that.I even posted a shot of a small portion of the aircraft and just for you I circled the problem with white color..I quess that still wasn,t clear enough still. Size is your best arqument ? Again, mirrored textures shouldnt be used as shortcuts in a payware unless it,s stated in the product description so I should make an informed purchase decision based on all the positive and negative facts.If I paid 40$ for a model I should be entitled to re-texture it correctly. Instead of defending this practice you should assure us it,s not becoming a modeling habbit with Aircraft Factory.
Dino,s FREEWARE F14 had the canopy textures mirrored and without anybodys complaint he fix the issue in couple of days instead of saying non-stop" it,s just a small portion ".

[Gibbage]

If I paid 40$ for a model I should be entitled to re-texture it correctly.

Honestly, your not "entitled" to anything other then flying around an F6F. Paint kits are a bonus, or gift if you will. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.


Instead of defending this practice you should assure us it,s not becoming a modeling habbit with Aircraft Factory.

First, im not defending the practice. Im just stating that you make it sound like the entire aircraft is mirrored, its not. Second, I dont know what Aircraft Factory does. I dont work for them. But I try to keep things un-mirrored as much as possible. There are limitations to game engines that us artist's need to deal with, and also sometimes we make errors. To blast a very well recieved product like you have just because of a small error is really not cool. Did you try to submit the issue through proper channels first? Or do you just vent on forums when you dont get everything you feel entitled too?

[krazycolin]

Hello Yago9...

First off, things like this should be pointed out to Realflight whose product this is. That way, you have a chance at getting it fixed. Gibbage doesn't have the right or the capacity to do so. Though he may have modeled and painted the plane originally, he didn't have anything to do with creating and then selling the package.

Second, Gibbage doesn't work for Aircraft Factory (A2A), he works for Milviz. Neither of us will ever do another model for A2A.

Thirdly, if you paid 40 bucks for the Realflight F6F, someone ripped you off.

Fourth, I will have to take responsibility for this one as it is, in the end, my fault. I am the one who approved the model and the UV's. Not Gibbage. We didn't know at the time that this "mirroring" of UV's would cause this much trouble. It's a standard method of working in 3d as it saves time and effort and it's extremely effecient. Nonetheless, I do hereby apologize to you and all those who had an issue with the mirrored texture.

Fifth and finally, I personally guarantee that this practice has been stopped and will not happen again.

I strongly suggest that you contact support at Realflight and ask them for a fix. I am sure that Dean would be glad to assist you in that.

kc

[jmig]

Hello Yago9...

First off, things like this should be pointed out to Realflight whose product this is. That way, you have a chance at getting it fixed. Gibbage doesn't have the right or the capacity to do so. Though he may have modeled and painted the plane originally, he didn't have anything to do with creating and then selling the package.

Second, Gibbage doesn't work for Aircraft Factory (A2A), he works for Milviz. Neither of us will ever do another model for A2A.

Thirdly, if you paid 40 bucks for the Realflight F6F, someone ripped you off.

Fourth, I will have to take responsibility for this one as it is, in the end, my fault. I am the one who approved the model and the UV's. Not Gibbage. We didn't know at the time that this "mirroring" of UV's would cause this much trouble. It's a standard method of working in 3d as it saves time and effort and it's extremely effecient. Nonetheless, I do hereby apologize to you and all those who had an issue with the mirrored texture.

Fifth and finally, I personally guarantee that this practice has been stopped and will not happen again.

I strongly suggest that you contact support at Realflight and ask them for a fix. I am sure that Dean would be glad to assist you in that.

kc

Me thinks that is one class act post!

I have the plane and enjoy it. I think it too is a class act. Even class acts can have faults. I know I am married to one and she isn't perfect, just almost.

************************************************** *****************

In support of the repainters, I think that any developer who doesn't provide a paint kit is hurting themselves. A paint kit allows many more skins, one of which someone may just want enough to buy a copy of the aircraft.

Also, I think today a paint kit is expected by the customer almost as much as a full working VC. It is one of those things that becomes a standard feature over time.

[yago9]

Honestly, your not "entitled" to anything other then flying around an F6F. Paint kits are a bonus, or gift if you will. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.



First, im not defending the practice. Im just stating that you make it sound like the entire aircraft is mirrored, its not. Second, I dont know what Aircraft Factory does. I dont work for them. But I try to keep things un-mirrored as much as possible. There are limitations to game engines that us artist's need to deal with, and also sometimes we make errors. To blast a very well recieved product like you have just because of a small error is really not cool. Did you try to submit the issue through proper channels first? Or do you just vent on forums when you dont get everything you feel entitled too?

What is wrong with you ? It,s a payware model and I , as a customer I have the right to share my impression on the product I purchased with my money . I already said i love it, it,s a sweet model, an outstanding piece of work ,but you just ignored that part constantly.
I brought this small texture flaw public so it wont become a habbit because it matters to me as a painter.Gibbage thx to you it became a topic that already drifted somewhere else and this thread will be locked for sure if it goes down this path. I can make that screenshot smaller if you want and circle the problem with red also, so you can finaly get it I wasn,t talking about the whole aircraft been mirrored.

I appologise If I associated wrongly this model with Aircrat Factory.

[yago9]

Hello Yago9...

First off, things like this should be pointed out to Realflight whose product this is. That way, you have a chance at getting it fixed. Gibbage doesn't have the right or the capacity to do so. Though he may have modeled and painted the plane originally, he didn't have anything to do with creating and then selling the package.

Second, Gibbage doesn't work for Aircraft Factory (A2A), he works for Milviz. Neither of us will ever do another model for A2A.

Thirdly, if you paid 40 bucks for the Realflight F6F, someone ripped you off.

Fourth, I will have to take responsibility for this one as it is, in the end, my fault. I am the one who approved the model and the UV's. Not Gibbage. We didn't know at the time that this "mirroring" of UV's would cause this much trouble. It's a standard method of working in 3d as it saves time and effort and it's extremely effecient. Nonetheless, I do hereby apologize to you and all those who had an issue with the mirrored texture.

Fifth and finally, I personally guarantee that this practice has been stopped and will not happen again.

I strongly suggest that you contact support at Realflight and ask them for a fix. I am sure that Dean would be glad to assist you in that.

kc

Didn,t want to blow this issue out of proportions ,someone helped a lot on doing so. Thank you for your gracious response. Yes , I wasnt expecting to find an F6 wich needed some extra markings exactly in that spot. Sry my conversion from euro to dollars was wrong, I paid 28.44 and it worth every penny.Such great models don,t deserve any kind of shortcuts ,as I said before. Thx for taking that into consideration.:icon29:
Actualy I did tell Real Flight wich put the blame on the painy kit..When I said it,s not a kit issue I heard the crickets in reasponse.That,s why I posted the issue here.

http://www.realflight.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=302

[krazycolin]

Yago9,

As much as we would like to help you on this, we can't and, honestly, given that it's now months old, probably will never be fixed. That said, it's only one part of the plane and though I know it bugs you (and maybe others) I think you'll have to live with it. Both Kev and I understand why you're a bit upset and both of us have said that we would not make that mistake again. We're all a bit touchy about the quality of our stuff...

For the A2A thing, no worries, it's just we have real issues with them at this time. (nuff said on that one or it will get yanked)

Thanks for the kudos btw

Jmig, I am learning how to keep calm in the face of adversity... it's hard... but I am getting there.

kc

[yago9]

I didnt started as upset .Later reactions and comments got me close though.I,wasnt expecting for a F6 fix to be honest but I,m hoping not to find same issue on my future purchase regardless of the authors.Thx.

[krazycolin]

I guarantee it. There will be no more mirrored textures anywhere on any of our models.

Once again, please accept my apologies for that one.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled show!

kc.

[vstudios]

"removed"