Owner of LearFan upset with FS plane?

[Lionheart]

Hey all,

And now for some entertainment.

I recieve this very short email from a guy, asking why I think I can use the LearFan name. He says he owns it.


:d

A guy named Gustavo?


What a crazy world we live in..

I let him know what I usually charge corporations for such work (now), and that it was freeware anyways.

I am glad I get permissions from corporations and owners these days. I looked all over for info on the LearFan back then and none existed, so who knows who this guy is, lol...


Bill

[bushpilot]

Since he owns the name, you should tell him that he should come up with better names for an aircraft. I mean LearFan is pretty lame name LOL:engel016:

[kilo delta]

Get back to him and tell him that you own the rights to the Gustavo name


:icon29::icon_lol:

[Kiwikat]

Get back to him and tell him that you own the rights to the Gustavo name


:icon29::icon_lol:

LOL. :ernae:

[Lionheart]

get back to him and tell him that you own the rights to the gustavo name


:icon29::icon_lol:

lolololol.....

[harleyman]

LOL I have seen a name like that around I think..


But...If he own it now, and just purchased it, It seems to me he ows you now....:kilroy:

[Lionheart]

Yep..

I have 'cleansed' my website of it.

Thats three corporations now that I refuse to work with. :d However, I must say that his 'building' which I looked up on google earth, is a house.

:isadizzy:



Bill

[Ickie]

ask him to prove it and his copywrite #

[Kavehpd]

Whatever you do, do not Google Image Search for Gustavo with SafeSearch filter off! :icon_lol:

[Railrunner130]

http://www.museumofflight.org/aircraft/lear-fan-2100-futura

I don't know where the other two reside, but I'd be really tempted to tell this guy to pound sand. I think if anyone owns the rights to that airplane, it would be Bombardier. (The current owner of Learjet.)

Perhaps I'm a little off base, but there are some serious nut-jobs in cyberspace.

[Prowler1111]

$5 says he is an Argie...

Prowler

[Baron von Blutwurst]

Be a real pain Bill...call your release the "LeerPhan". Unless of course the Chinese already have one of those...lmao:ernae:

[piperarcherpilot]

Sounds like a nut to me. Like Ickie said, kindly ask him to prove it, whatever proof that may entail. Until he proves it, I wouldnt change a thing.

Regardless of whether he legitimately owns the name or not, hes got to be a foolish guy for having an issue with how you're using it...:isadizzy:

[falcon409]

Sounds like a nut to me. Like Ickie said, kindly ask him to prove it, whatever proof that may entail. Until he proves it, I wouldnt change a thing.

Regardless of whether he legitimately owns the name or not, hes got to be a foolish guy for having an issue with how you're using it...:isadizzy:
I've got an idea. . .hey Bill, give us his e-mail address. . .we'll mount a little e-mail party and saturate his inbox with endorsements for your design and request information on his copyright and what his "Learfan" is actually used for. . . .it's possible he owns a line of ceiling fans, lol.

[FelixFFDS]

Bill - I thought you were into modelling FS planes, not horses:

http://www.fasigtipton.com/results/2006/Eastern-Fall-Yearlings-Oct-4.asp

1050 LEAR FAN/YESTERDAY'S LUV - OUT -
F SUMMERFIELD (FRANCIS & BARBARA
VANLANGENDONCK) AGENT

[deathfromafar]

I've got an idea. . .hey Bill, give us his e-mail address. . .we'll mount a little e-mail party and saturate his inbox with endorsements for your design and request information on his copyright and what his "Learfan" is actually used for. . . .it's possible he owns a line of ceiling fans, lol.

Yeah, I like that idea. My email content: "Mr. Gustavo, BITE ME".......:icon_lol:

[Lionheart]

He says I should have called the FAA to varify if the plane and company still existed, and that its either take it offline or we go to court.

If he is the actual owner, I would rather have nothing (absolutely nothing) to do with him.

This guy does not sound like an executive. And his business address is a house, lol..

I now have more room on my website. I am happy.

:engel016:


Bill

[deathfromafar]

That guy is full of himself. The owner of the sole Lear Fan is the Museum of Flight and the Lear name is owned by Bombardier. No one bought the rights to the Lear Fan design. The damn airframe failed to get FAA certification. I wouldn't give in to this wacko. As the others have said, ask him for proof to his claims.

[bushpilot]

Well I don't care if I fly "Cissna" or "LearFun" as long as they are flyable:icon_lol::icon_lol:.

[Txmmy83]

anyone Remember ubisofts racing simulation 3
that was the racing game that havent got a FIA license to use the real track names
so Brazilian GP was GP of Columbia with the real Brazilian GP track layout

bit off topic I know

but it is actually the answer to bushpilots post


BR
Tom

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Bill -
I'd be asking for documented proof of ownership,
and also the context of & registration number.

According to the United States Patent and Trademark Office search (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4002:rr2q9d.1.1)
the Lear Fan trademark expired in 1997
<table border="0"><tbody><tr><td align="LEFT" valign="TOP">Word Mark </td> <td> LEAR FAN</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="TOP"> Goods and Services</td> <td>(ABANDONED) IC 012. US 019 021 023 031 035 044. G & S: airplanes, general aviation, manufacture of</td></tr></tbody></table>
You could maybe try purchasing it yourself. :icon_lol:

US Copyright Ofiice record (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v1=1&ti=1,1&HC=2&hd=0,0&SAB1=Lear%20Fan&BOOL1=as%20a%20phrase&FLD1=Keyword%20Anywhere%20%28GKEY%29%20%28GKEY%29&GRP1=OR%20with%20next%20set&SAB2=&BOOL2=as%20a%20phrase&FLD2=Keyword%20Anywhere%20%28GKEY%29%20%28GKEY%29&CNT=25&PID=TVUEtccTWgbwDqWXaR9Cr_zkrkvli) -
Type of Work: Visual Material
Registration Number / Date: TX0000403708 / 1979-10-16
Title: Lear Fan.
Imprint: Reno : Lear Avia Corp., c1979.
Description: 1 v.
Copyright Claimant: Lear Avia Corporation
Date of Creation: 1979
Date of Publication: 1979-05-30
Copyright Note: C.O. correspondence.
Other Title: Fan
Names: Lear Avia Corporation

HTH
ATB
Paul

[Lionheart]

Hi Folks

Bill -
I'd be asking for documented proof of ownership,
and also the context of & registration number.

According to the United States Patent and Trademark Office search (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4002:rr2q9d.1.1)
the Lear Fan trademark expired in 1997
<table border="0"><tbody><tr><td align="LEFT" valign="TOP">Word Mark </td> <td> LEAR FAN</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="LEFT" valign="TOP"> Goods and Services</td> <td>(ABANDONED) IC 012. US 019 021 023 031 035 044. G & S: airplanes, general aviation, manufacture of</td></tr></tbody></table>
You could maybe try purchasing it yourself. :icon_lol:

HTH
ATB
Paul

Thanks Paul.

Man, why didnt I think of that. I would give the name a good home. (If its expired).


Bill

[Skywolf]

Sounds like this fellow is a fake. Make him prove who he really is and have him show you his copyright. Otherwise just ignore him.

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Bill -
That was for the trademark itself.

The copyright of title Lear Fan may still be active,
and owned by whowever subsumed Lear Avia Corporation.

HTH
ATB
Paul

[jmig]

He says I should have called the FAA to varify if the plane and company still existed, and that its either take it offline or we go to court.

If he is the actual owner, I would rather have nothing (absolutely nothing) to do with him.

This guy does not sound like an executive. And his business address is a house, lol..

I now have more room on my website. I am happy.

:engel016:


Bill

I recently had a similar situation Bill. A couple years ago I wrote an engineering paper/article for an industry publication. I spoke with and visited several companies within the industry while researching the article.

One company, met with me and gave me a tour of his facility. He was fully aware of what I was writing. Well, a year and a half later he emails me demanding I remove the article from our website because I used his name without permission and he didn't agree with the article.

I mentioned to him our telephone conversations and visit. It was like talking to a wall. He became rather testy and ever questioned my qualifications to write the article. That went too far.

I redacted his company's from the "Thank Yous" on the last page of the article, where I thanked the people who helped me.

What he didn't know was that I had liked his company and its products. I had recommend them several times in the past.

[EgoR64]

:wavey:

Hi Bill,

You should touch bases with the gent that created it for X-Plane, Wonder if he got torched for it.

Cheers, and look forward to your Learfun for FS !!

[CBris]

Lear Fan... You are a fanatic follower of Lear (the king, perhaps?)

So just imagine the fun, when you cross a Cessna and a Pitts? Cesspits? Can I register that name?

Just checked Wikipedia - LearFan is owned by LearAvia.

Useless info... he's dead:


Prominent Stallion Lear Fan Dead

Updated: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:26 PM
Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:07 PM

(javascript:void(0))
Lear Fan, who stood at the Beck family’s Gainesway Farm near Lexington, died July 7 of natural causes. The pensioned son of Roberto had begun his stallion duty at the farm when it was owned by founder John R. Gaines. He was 27.
A Kentucky-bred, Lear Fan developed into a prominent miler in Europe for owner Ahmed Salman. At 3, he won the Prix Jacques le Marois (Fr-I) and was classic-placed, running third in the General Accident Two Thousand Guineas (Eng-I).


Back to the LearFan - according to Wiki, the inventor is Mr. Bill Lear himself, RiP. If Gustavo is one of the Investors that Lear's wife. Both survivors are in US Museums, so get permission from either to rebuild one of their exhibits. They OWN the airframes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LearAvia_Lear_Fan

Or write to Mrs. Moya Lear in person. She may be rather more pleased to see Bill's plane go into general service - even if only in sim.

[mike_cyul]

As you have removed the content from the website (and wait until the cached version is clensed, too), I would indeed now write back to him and ask for his proof of ownership. If he fails to respond, you can forward his email to Bombardier and others with a simple query as to wether his claim is accurate. If nothing else, they may be interested to know who is claiming ownership of the name, and you may be doing them a service.

Mike

[Lionheart]

Thanks Mike and guys. I certainly will. For the sake of William Lear and his wife.



Bill

[Lionheart]

This is the info on him so far;

Gustavo Cuello
Owner of Learfan Co.
7708 Dentcrest dr
Dallas Texas 75254
gcuello@sbcglobal.net

[kilo delta]

This is the info on him so far;

Gustavo Cuello
Owner of Learfan Co.
7708 Dentcrest dr
Dallas Texas 75254
gcuello@sbcglobal.net

Hehehe @ posting his email addy.......That boy is gonna get spammed something good when the bots find it.:icon_lol:

[Lionheart]

Lets not do anything bad.

I am trying to secure the copyrights presently.

It seems there is absolutely no Lear Fan company, no Lear Fan corporation, no LearFan (no space) corporation or company or copyrights.

Copyrights were through LearAvia Corporation. LearAvia is now abandoned, so the copyright is abandoned.

Bill

[Lionheart]

I have also reported this guy to the FAA.

[CBris]

Careful Guys...

Google the name and be aware that at least one Gustavo Cuello is a priest and linked with unsavoury acts against minors. Others of the same name are also around...

[Lionheart]

Gustavo has been a busy boy.

Sexual charges?


http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news3/2003_07_18_TylerMorningTelegraph_FugitiveEt_Cuello _6.htm

[piperarcherpilot]

Yeah, this is just goofy. :isadizzy:

I'd demand he present verifiable proof of current ownership of the name, and if he doesnt do it in 2 weeks (or in some timeframe), I'd absolutely put the content back up on the website, and ignore the guy's emails. I certainly wouldnt back down to the guy...its looking like hes just here to mess with you and do the same kind of thing that destroying Avsim did...injure the community. Dont let him win by simply backing down.

And after he doesnt present proof, if he still says "Waaaaahh...I'm gonna take you to court blah blah blah!" then at that point I'd say "be my guest."

Or...maybe...take HIM to court for harassment.

[Lionheart]

Yeah, this is just goofy. :isadizzy:

I'd demand he present verifiable proof of current ownership of the name, and if he doesnt do it in 2 weeks (or in some timeframe), I'd absolutely put the content back up on the website, and ignore the nutcase's emails.

If he still says "Waaaaahh...I'm gonna take you to court blah blah blah!" then at that point I'd say "be my guest."

Take HIM to court for harassment.



This is indeed a harrassment. With impersinating a huge corporation in ownership and threatening legal litigation, I think it might even fall under the roof of the FBI. He caused my website to be altered. I wonder if he is here on a temporary visa? That might be yanked as well.


Bill

[Seadog]

I just spent the required $1.00 fee to search the records of business organizations filed with the Texas Secretary of State Corporations division. I used the search term Learfan Co. The search returned 19 companies that had names beginning with LE and LA, both single and multiple word names. Not one of them was Learfan Co., nor even Lear Fan Co. The 19 results included business names ending in Company, Corp., Inc., LLP, LLC and Corporation, so putting Co. in the search was not a limiting factor.

The long and the short of it is that there is no business entity named Learfan Co. registered as such in the State of Texas. That means he's nothing more than an individual, perhaps a sole proprietor doing business under the assumed name of Learfan Co. If so, he can only sue in his own name.

Since his address is an area I frequently drive past, I'm fairly familiar with the socio-economic status of the location, and it isn't a corporate enclave. It is immediately adjacent to a a high tension power corridor between it and a heavily traveled main thoroughfare. It isn't a slum, but it isn't high rent either.

The odds of old Gustavo owning a copyright on the design of an aircraft such as this are infinitessimally small. Those are the same odds that he owns the trademark on the name as used for an aircraft. Any other use is irrelevant because only those infringing uses that are likely to cause consumer confusion are actionable, and that is especially so when the alleged infringing use long predates the more recent unrelated use that is the basis for the complaint.

So, Learfan Co. is not a legally registered business entity, and, unless he owns the trademark for and is marketing Lear Fan aircraft, there is no basis for a trademark infringement complaint. If Gustavo owns the design of the aircraft itself, he might have a very shaky leg to stand on to make a copyright complaint, but I think it would be bogus. The chance that he actually owns anything here of importance is simply too small to register.

Personally, I'd tell him to specify whether he owns a copyright or a trademark for Lear Fan and what his claim against you is. I'd tell him the Texas Secretary of State has no record of a legally organized and registered business entity called Learfan Co. I'd tell him to prove his right to make a complaint against you or withdraw it. I'd wait and see what that produces before taking any further action.

[piperarcherpilot]

This is indeed a harrassment. With impersinating a huge corporation in ownership and threatening legal litigation, I think it might even fall under the roof of the FBI. He caused my website to be altered. I wonder if he is here on a temporary visa? That might be yanked as well.


Bill I wouldnt take it too far too fast by accusing him just yet, but I dont think you'd be out of line at all to let him know that you're upset with him and you dont believe him. Just like people do with police when they're in doubt they're real police, ask him to show his credentials....and if he does, you'll know. But when he cant do it, then the tides have turned, and you have a harassment case.

[FAC257]

Bill

You could put a propeller on this horse.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/24778/gainesway-stallion-lear-fan-pensioned

It would diffuse the whole issue while also possibly making somebody go completely nuts at the same time. :)


FAC

[Wing_Z]

Dear Mr Gustavo,
It has come to my attention that you are the owner of the Learfan Company.
We appreciate your coming forward with this information.
According to our records, you have failed to file tax returns for the period 1980 - 2009.
Please contact this office at your earliest convenience.

Will S Queeze
Internal Revenue Service
United States Government
Dallas Texas

[Tim_Horton]

:wavey:

Hi Bill,

You should touch bases with the gent that created it for X-Plane, Wonder if he got torched for it.

Cheers, and look forward to your Learfun for FS !!



I would not be surprised if that guy with x-plane is the Gustavo guy! Most likely another developer who saw your project and realized he has one in production and is trying to scare you off so he can sell his, while your trying to give it away!

I would not worry to much, international Law is a tricky buisness, and trying to lay claim is even longer paper trail that ends up with the sue'r with more bills than the person getting sued. If the name is not taken use King-Pusher.

[Kiwikat]

Dear Mr Gustavo,
It has come to my attention that you are the owner of the Learfan Company.
We appreciate your coming forward with this information.
According to our records, you have failed to file tax returns for the period 1980 - 2009.
Please contact this office at your earliest convenience.

Will S Queeze
Internal Revenue Service
United States Government
Dallas Texas

ROFLMAO :icon_lol:

[Shylock]

I say ask for proof. I doubt he owns it. And if he does lets all go have a talking to with him. lol

[Lionheart]

I have requested proof.

This should be interesting.

[Seadog]

Tried to make this post earlier, but for some reason it ended up saying a moderator had to review it. Anyway ....

I spent the required $1.00 plus 2.7% surcharge fee (boy, governments are creative) to search the records of registered business entities in Texas at the Secretary of State's website. I searched for Learfan Co. and got 19 results, none of which were actually Learfan Co. The results inluded one and two word names starting with bot LA and LE, and entities including Co., Corp., LLC, LLP, Corporation and so on. The search casts a pretty wide net, so I'm confident in saying that there is not a legally organized and registered business entity in Texas by the name Learfan Co. The only other possibility is that Gustavo is a sole proprietor operating under an assumed name which, so long as registered at the Dallas County Courthouse, would be legal. But he's not a corporation, that's for sure.

He has two possible claims, and it would help, Bill, if you simply quoted his email that you ultimately referred to in which he claimed the right to the aircraft name. Anyway, one possibility is a trademark claim, which is a claim that says he owns the name Lear Fan and has used it as a trademark and that your use of it infringes on his rights. The second kind of claim would be a copyright violation in which he says he owns the copyright to the visual image of the aircraft itself. That copyright claim would only be valid if he had purchased the original copyright from Lear Avia or a successor owner. The trademark claim would only be valid if he were selling Lear Fan aircraft or flight simulation depictions of a Lear Fan. Trademarks do not provide for exclusive use of the term, but only for exclusive use in connection with a specific product or service. An infringing use is one which would cause consumers of the trademarked good or service to have confusion over the source of that good or service. To use the example posted above, the ceiling fan, there would be no such confusion, hence no infringing use. That's because a consumer of ceiling fans wouldn't care who used the name in connection with a flight sim add-on, but wold get confused if two people tried to use the same name for different ceiling fans.

His address is one I drive past frequently. It is adjacent to a wide high tension power corridor paralleling a main thoroughfare, and it is not a place where a corporate executive would reside.

I look forward to seeing what his reply is.

[RyanJames170]

i am interested to see what he reply's lol

[euroastar350]

Well I don't care if I fly "Cissna" or "LearFun" as long as they are flyable:icon_lol::icon_lol:.

I think I just crapped my undies:monkies::d

[Lionheart]

The more I think of it, the more this sounds like an XP9 dev.

I am curious if that guy that made the XP9 LearFan is Gustavo. If it is, Im going to Austin on it.

Devs are neighbors in the sim world. At least in FS they are.

[piperarcherpilot]

The more I think of it, the more this sounds like an XP9 dev.

I am curious if that guy that made the XP9 LearFan is Gustavo. If it is, Im going to Austin on it.

Devs are neighbors in the sim world. At least in FS they are.

If it turns out this way, If I were you, my next payware FSX release would be an updated, stunningly accurate and beautiful model of the Lear Fan 2100...

Who cares about the harassment from this guy then, we would all buy it and enjoy it and we'd all have a little fun with him. :icon_lol:

[Lionheart]

If it turns out this way, If I were you, my next payware FSX release would be an updated, stunningly accurate and beautiful model of the Lear Fan 2100...

Who cares about the harassment from this guy then, we would all buy it and enjoy it and we'd all have a little fun with him. :icon_lol:

Youre reading my mind, lol...

[Shylock]

Dont forget my name is Shylock for a reason. :jump: Just saying....

[tigisfat]

Careful Guys...

Google the name and be aware that at least one Gustavo Cuello is a priest and linked with unsavoury acts against minors. Others of the same name are also around...


Unfortunately, so is a prominent member of the MSFS development community.
:pop4:

[cheezyflier]

Dont forget my name is Shylock for a reason. :jump: Just saying....

http://innerbadass.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/becool.jpg