Concepts for a new Flight Simulator

[Lionheart]

Hey guys,

We were talking on another thread about FSX and Mathijs' new flight simulator he is working on. And it occurred to me, why not start a thread that would throw around some ideas for a new Flight Simulator, but one that would be totally fictional, but 'realistic' (has to work or its no good, has to be fast and smooth, run on regular computers, etc).

So.. Here it goes.

Idea one.

This was brought about by hearing Gibbage talk about how other games that have amazing terrain details, but only good for 300 yards radius.

How about this for an idea.

Extreme Ground Detail; This would be an LOD (distance) activated ground detail system (could be switched off) and would create things like high detail 3D (2D actally) grass, stones, 3D textured ground, higher detail trees (maybe), and things of that nature.

This would only activate when you are close to the ground. Figure, you cannot see blades of grass perhaps 10 yards away, so this would be a very small radius distance.

The Tile Terrain texture which has the classification of terrain mapped into it would tell the sim rendering engine what to put there, such as sand, grass, tall grass, rocky terrain, shale, gravel, etc, and it would auto-locate onto the flat area's and have sort of a blending mapping similar to the Ocean (you can barely tell where it ends and begins as the mappings join like tiles).

So, when you land at a grass field airport, get out, walk around your plane, go to a picknick table and kick back and watch the other planes land and take-off, you can watch the grass move in the wind, check out the trees, hear the birds singing, and get a real experience for the area 'that is close up to you'.


This way you could have have scenery like Far Cry, and it would not tax the computer heavily, and could be turned off for slower computers, and would be similar to Autogen. (You would have to be very close to the ground for these things to become visible).



An idea...


Bill

[harleyman]

Build it..We will follow......

Sounds good to me...

Just need one that is actually written for a computer. Not a Space Shuttle....



But having detail able to switch on and off would solve tons of problems for us all..

Then if your rig can't run full detail, kill it till you can upgrade parts.Until that time at least you can fly it.....

Oh..And have it use more graphics cards too, so better cards give better results....

[GT182]

I'd like to see a superb combat sim ala FSX with Multiplayer. With things that shoot and go boom. ;) And be able to use the excellent quality FSX addon aircraft we have now. :kilroy:

[VFR Alexander]

More options for flight dynamics (TVC, FBW), visual icing/damage/fire. Along with better physics (slipping on icy runways, etc).

[Kavehpd]

Proper helicopter physics would be on top of my list. Tilt rotor would be next followed by ground handling that resembles planet Earth!!!

Throw in sky diving and hot air balloon capabilities and we'll call it a deal.

[Rezabrya]

Yes give it an even balence of using the CPU, ram, and GPU. Why have a killer GPU like I have when FSX barely uses it? You can get a lot more performance and detail out of a PC if it uses all the parts evenly rather than depending on one part.

[Skywolf]

I would like to see combat, racing, and futuristic travel. Maybe thats asking to much. Skydiving and balooning would be fun also!

[Gibbage]

The graphic capability's of the Crytek engine is insane, but like I said, is limited to a small area. Its simply not possible to model an entire planet with that level of detail. But some of the rendering systems can be used to help enhance the overall look, such as the live render soft shadows, AO, HDRI and all that other stuff. It just needs a good engine, and those shaders can just drop right in.

[Lionheart]

The graphic capability's of the Crytek engine is insane, but like I said, is limited to a small area. Its simply not possible to model an entire planet with that level of detail. But some of the rendering systems can be used to help enhance the overall look, such as the live render soft shadows, AO, HDRI and all that other stuff. It just needs a good engine, and those shaders can just drop right in.


Gibbage,

Do you think its possible to have models react similarly in a new FS as like FSX but without all the various sophisticated side textures for the materials? (like Specular, etc).

I see that FS9 models work pretty good in FSX. Perhaps the shaders could do awesome wonders to models with basic materials (like FS9) and look as amazing as FSX models? (aside from bump mapping of course).


My own humble opinion is that if you made it easy for developers to make models for, (like as easy as possible), you would attract more people to the sim. More developers, more addons, more people buying the sim. (Kind of like iPhone and Apps. iPhone only holds and runs the Apps, the thousands of developrs make the apps which make the iPhone a huge success).


Bill

[Lionheart]

This is a fantasy of mine...

I would like to see the FS9 engine reset to allow high resolution ground textures, allow unlimited texture sizes or at least to 4096 square texture sheets, new autogen textures, and start that baby up and see how it would run....

My thoughts are it would be one smooth, fantastic sim.

I wonder if it can take shader additions as like the other game engines?



Bill

[Kiwikat]

This is a fantasy of mine...

I would like to see the FS9 engine reset to allow high resolution ground textures, allow unlimited texture sizes or at least to 4096 square texture sheets, new autogen textures, and start that baby up and see how it would run....

Geez Bill, that sounds an awful lot like FSX... :monkies:

[Lionheart]

Geez Bill, that sounds an awful lot like FSX... :monkies:

lolol....

no... FSX is a totally new engine, remember?

[bkeske]

I want one that will do this:
http://www.fotobank.ru/img/DV03-5092.jpg?size=l

Actually fly of course, not a cartoon, and all for the price of a good used computer :icon_lol:

So that leaves Macs out of the equation; right Bill? :bump:

Brian

[Lionheart]

Actually fly of course, not a cartoon, and all for the price of a good used computer :icon_lol:

So that leaves Macs out of the equation; right Bill? :bump:

Brian


LOL.....

My iMac is so far advanced, you have to think bigger....

Like Star Trek TNG bigger...

Warp baby! Folding space! Not just hovering around at 80 knots..

:d



EDIT: except run FSX at full sliders.. arrgh

[Kiwikat]

My iMac is so far advanced, you have to think bigger....

ROFL... now THAT is funny. :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

I want a sim that is as funny as bill. :engel016:

[bkeske]

Just kidden Bill, I use both Macs and PC's. :wiggle:

[Lionheart]

Just kidden Bill, I use both Macs and PC's. :wiggle:

Its ok man....

I confess.. My iMac will not fold space or do Warp 9.8. Sure looks it. If I place it on a plate of very clean plexi, it appears to hover....

:d

[Piglet]

Vectored thrust support! Rocket engines! Autogyros! Much better ground handling! If I had all that, think how much more "peculiar" my plane choices would be....

[Lionheart]

I agree Tim.

You know what would be cool is if we could add 'handling' tags. I was thinking of this earlier. Sort of like adding sounds and animation, one could add flight handling characteristics threw several open slots that one could tag and program, like open doors, windows, etc..

[An-225]

I second vectored thrust support.

Perhaps, in an airplane's .cfg file, you can stipulate varying degrees of vectored thrust.

The line could look like this...

Vectored_thrust=X

Where X is a numerical value between 1 and 4.

A value of 1 indicates no vectored thrust.
A value of 2 indicates 2D vectored thrust, linked to the aileron and elevator controls.
A value of 3 indicates 3D vectored thrust, linked to aileron, elevator and yaw controls.
A value of 4 indicates thrust nozzles, like those on the Harrier - new options for keystrokes are implemented into the simulator, allowing you to rotate the nozzles independently of flaps.

[Piglet]

I almost forgot, blinding sun! Have the sun really hit you in the eyes. Too many combat sim don't really deal with this, and it's such a major part of combat flight, or even civvie flight.
One neat thing about X-Plane, is the "sunglasses" effect.

[Mongo]

I'd like to see changes to ATC in the sim - make it more realistic, and avoid things like multiple changing back and forth between two courses and/or altitudes on approaches. Maybe incorporate the use of SID's and STARS.

[cheezyflier]

Vectored thrust support! Rocket engines! Autogyros! Much better ground handling! If I had all that, think how much more "peculiar" my plane choices would be....

i could think all day on just that one aspect right there. :applause:



I'd like to see changes to ATC in the sim - make it more realistic, and avoid things like multiple changing back and forth between two courses and/or altitudes on approaches. Maybe incorporate the use of SID's and STARS.

i totally agree here, as well as allowing for emergencies, and to fix some of the rediculous approaches they sometimes come up with.

[Lionheart]

i totally agree here, as well as allowing for emergencies, and to fix some of the rediculous approaches they sometimes come up with.

I have been rerouted at international airports in FS9 and FSX while in an IFR approach, and was taken all around the outskirts of cities like Paris and Phoenix, adding nearly 30 min's to the flight, all because an AI plane was just sitting on the runway, lol... When it happened again on the second pass, I exited the sim.

[Gibbage]

lolol....

no... FSX is a totally new engine, remember?

Modern game engines are what we call modular. At the heart of the program is something we never see. All it is, is a program that does math. It crunches numbers, and feeds those numbers too various components. Attached to that engine, is stuff we do see. Art assets, gauges, textures, worlds, shaders, and all that. If they said they had an all new engine, its very possible. Like I said, we never see it. It hides in the background, working silently without ever being seen. To have a game engine that can simulate an entire world is not something you can buy. Even IL2 can only simulate small (relitivly) maps. So the FSX engine, when looked at from a brauder scope, is very remarkable, and does something that no others can.

Also, this is not information I learned from working at Aces. I never saw the engine or any code. I was just an artist, so don't take what I saw as inside information. Its just what I have learned from working with FSX as freelance and just talking to others who also work in FSX.

[Bone]

To have a game engine that can simulate an entire world is not something you can buy. Even IL2 can only simulate small (relitivly) maps. So the FSX engine, when looked at from a brauder scope, is very remarkable, and does something that no others can.



And Microsoft decided to let it all go, over and out. Something doesn't compute.

As far as a new sim is concerned, I would like to have the entire world with photo real scenery.

[Lionheart]

As far as a new sim is concerned, I would like to have the entire world with photo real scenery.


OH man! Me too, lol...

If contracts could only be made with groups like Google or the like that have maps of the world, you would only need to link in with them for map updates.

You might have to release the sim without winter, etc... You 'might' be able to work with a group that had winter maps though. I think Google runs winter maps in the winter. I noticed this a few times last year when in my binge of flying in TileProxy.

EDIT: You know.... You could actually start small on a sim and have only key locations available, like several states, maybe a part of Europe, and have that as the introduction, similar to the first release of Flight Unlimited, which was limited in scenery. Then you could have scenery that was high detail, all photo real, and expand as you could with updates in following launches of new builds. But! Create the system 'extremely' modular and module friendly like Mac OSX. Have it so that it continually evolves. None of this 'reinventing the wheel' every several years. Just 'enhancements'.


Bill

[bushpilot]

As far as a new sim is concerned, I would like to have the entire world with photo real scenery.

According to this (http://scenerysolutions.blogspot.com/2009/06/flight-simulator-terrain-system.html), single daytime season coverage of the world, in 1m per pixel photoscenery, would take up HDD space 563 terabytes. And that has to be multiplied by six to cover all seasons and night time. Now who wants to chip in when I buy my next HDD?http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Bone]

OK, let me make an adjustment to my desires:



As far as a new sim is concerned, I would like it to come with a large enough HD and the entire world in photo real scenery.

[Gibbage]

As far as a new sim is concerned, I would like to have the entire world with photo real scenery.

Thats a nice pipe-dream, but that would take millions of man-hours to do. Something not even M$ could afford.

[PRB]

Better clouds and weather. One of the most intersting things to look at from a real plane are clouds. Wouldn't it be cool to have clouds that you could actually fly around and didn't vanish as you got up to them? FS does a poor job with them. Along with that would be better weather. Weather is HUGE to a real pilot. It affects everything.

[bushpilot]

How about good crash detection? The one that lets you do some wacky stuff like water skimming without automatically detecting them as plunges into the water.

[Flyboy208]

I would love to have ATC voices that are particular to the region/country you are flying in ... accents really ...

Mike :wiggle:

[Bone]

Thats a nice pipe-dream, but that would take millions of man-hours to do. Something not even M$ could afford.

That just goes to show you that I don't know didly about cyber-creating.

[Brett_Henderson]

First and foremost.. a new sim HAS to have a realistic flight-model. The FSX one is quite good, but if we're talking about an all new sim... let's start there.

Next.. system management and accumulated abuse. If you forget to open the cowl-flaps before takeoff, and don't see the CHT rising in time to open them.. you get closer and closer to unexpected engine failure. Same if you run at red-line too long.. or don't properly manage fuel-mixture.. If you're lucky, it might give you a little warning that wear is accumulating.. maybe it won't and that engine will sputter and die while you're out over water, too far to glide to land. Or if you deploy the flaps at too high an airspeed.. or land hard.. and on and on... Keep dumping those C172 flaps at 120kias, and they might not deploy when you REALLY need them.

Next... weather stuff. More relaistic wind and visibility transitions.. better, volumetric clouds.. carb ice.. airframe ice.. pitot ice. Fly into clouds where the OAT is below freezing, and you WILL ice up.

On the fun side.. I always thought it would be neat to keep saved flights "active". Like, if you land your Mooney.. park it and save that flight.. and then later, fly to that airport in something else.. the Mooney will be right where you left it.. and ideally, you'd be able to climb out of your plane, and into that Mooney..

[kilo delta]

OK, let me make an adjustment to my desires:



As far as a new sim is concerned, I would like it to come with a large enough HD and the entire world in photo real scenery.

.....and three weeks time,24/7, to install the game :icon_lol:


What do I want in the new sim?.............


.... better lookin' flight attendants



:guinness:

[beatle]

.... better lookin' flight attendants


I'd like that on real flights too :->

Tim

[crashaz]

ROFL! Beatle

Going to have to throw in my 2 cents for more realistic weather... volumetric.... storm fronts... cloud shadows,winds. :wavey:

[Skywolf]

Better Atc also.....communicating with mic. I thnk we all want it as real as possible. Within the limits of man hours, money, and computer size of course.

[RyanJames170]

ok here is an thought lol. is there an way to make FSX as its stands use more of the GPU i know the Bloom thing the russian guy did was prety neat to say the least. but could we force it to use more GPU or enable some stuff to use CUDA??

i dont know if its posible.

as for an New sim maybe more ballnced in using GPU CPU and maybe even CUDA suport to use the Tesalas and GPUs in SLI lol

Ryan
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[dhl1986]

a more visually satisfying and cinematic FSX basically, with emphasis on military aviation. you do that and you've got a customer for life :ernae: