A2A P-47 flaps

[PRB]

Been playing with the A2A P-47. Beautiful plane, too! I watched the YouTube cockpit check video and learned that the P-47, like the F6F Hellcat, had only one down position of the flaps. They’re up, or they’re down (except for “neutral”, which is my next question.) So now we have the RealFlight Hellcat, and the A2A Thunderbolt, each of which have flaps with just one down position, not 3 (or 9). I’m wondering how many other US fighters out there have a similar flap system? P-51? P-38? I have P-47s and Hellcats in FS9, and they all have multiple flap positions, which we now learn is not correct. Were all US fighters configured this way? The video does imply that you could lower the flaps as little or as much as you wanted to with the handle, presumably by simply placing the handle where you want. I couldn’t get this to work in the sim, even with the mouse. The handle “snapped” to the full down or neutral position.
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Now, about this “neutral” flap position for the P-47. Neither the video nor the manual explains why there is such a thing. The video does explain that if you put the flap handle in the UP position, they go up a bit further than the neutral position, and create more drag, therefore you should place them in neutral. So what’s the UP position for, anyway?

[some1]

Actually, the flaps in P-47 have not one, but infinite positions. They extend when you move flaps lever to "down", they stop when you move it to "neutral", and retract when you move it to "up", so you can deploy them to any angle between fully extended and retracted by correct operation of flaps lever.

This is a quite unique feature because FSX doesn't support smooth flaps operation easily, so only a few aircraft in FSX have it properly implemented. Anyway, only few aircraft in reality have such flaps construction.

[PRB]

I just figured that out! What a dummy I am sometimes!
:ernae:

[Bomber_12th]

The P-47 has a very similar flap setup to the P-40, in that the handles have up, neutral, and down positions. The neutral position is like an up/down lock for the gear, which holds the hydraulic pressure in place. The B-17 is sort of the same way, though you have a simple toggle switch which you hold either up or down to get the flap setting you desire, until you release the switch to its neutral position. The P-51 and P-38 instead have various 'notches' where you select angles of flap, which is a more pilot-friendly option.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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The P-40, Bf-109, and some other aircraft of the time period, share a similar style setup with the gear handle as well, with the neutral setting always serving as the locking position - you always return the handle to the neutral position once the gear is either all the way up, or all the way down.<o:p></o:p>
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Speaking of the Hellcat and Wildcat, which only have an up and down flap position like the Spitfire, but unlike the Spitfire as the flaps move up and down with the airspeed, if you pay close attention to some photos on Airliners.net, and the like, you can see instances where the flaps are at different levels of deployment on final, due to the various differences in airspeeds when the photos were taken.

[PRB]

Thanks, John! It's interesting to learn how the various planes operated differently.

[fliger747]

Yes, from what I could gather the flap positions are as indicated above, adjustable up and down with a position indicator in the cockpit. A2A seem to disagree with me on this point, which is their right to do. As a backup system in the 747 we could motor the flaps in a similar manner if necessary.

Sometimes in FS a control activation that is simple in real life, such as reaching for a toggle without even having to look at it and holding for say 10 seconds (or whaterver you found usefull) requires some more significant distraction.

Due to the way the FS control systems work, slight departures have been made. Some aircraft such as the P-47 ( I did one once) can be approximated by using a set of programed stops, which is probably how the plane was flown, just the pilot manually stopping at whatever point he wanted. Perhaps a bit closer to how the plane was flown than the either up or down system.

With more sophisticated (at home) control setups, we might be able to more closely approximate things, but most would be fortunate to have pedals or a throttle.

Cheers: T.

[Bomber_12th]

If you have or ever get the chance to see Jeff Ethel's Roaring Glory series, where he flies the P-40, it is interesting to hear how he describes the gear and flap operation. On approach he mentions that he could only get the flaps down at either half or full down, due to the speed at which the flaps deploy - even though the flaps can be stopped at any increment desired, they drop so fast it doesn't give you much time to put the handle back in neutral. Aircraft with slower flap deployment speeds would be easier to select smaller increments, like the P-47.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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Tom, I'm glad you brought up the topic of the difference between finding and using a lever or switch in FS as compared to the real world. A prime example of this, is the FSX A2A Bf-109, which accurately replicates the need to rotate a wheel in order to raise and lower the flaps. Unfortunately in the sim you have to look down in the cockpit in order to do so, while in reality all you have to do is reach down to your side and operate the wheel while maintaining a visual of the airfield and of the airspace, which is critical. In this case I would much rather be given the chance to still use flap switches on the joystick or keyboard, than having to look down in the cockpit, as I think it is more inaccurate a procedure to be required to manually turn the wheel in the sim. I like the fact that with the FSX A2A P-47, you can use up and down flap keys to control all of the movements of the flap lever, even to bring it back to neutral to stop the flap movement.

[Cazzie]

But on most airfields, flaps are not warranted on take-off and I rarely ever use them landing except for final speed bleed down after I'm about ready to set down on the A2A P-47. The Hellcat does benifit from flaps. It's twitchier than the T-bolt.

Caz

[ROB]

You can use key-shortcuts in the BF109 as well. Press and keep pressing "F5" or F6" to retract and "F7" and "F8" to extend the flaps. Release key to stop operation at desired angle. Joystick buttons would work as well (with 'repeat' feature).

Add to this mouse drag and mouse wheel. All control channels are supported.

regards
ROB