The Ongoing Mystery Aircraft Thread Part Deux.

[giruXX]

you're almost right :biggrin-new:

attentive readers of this thread will remember it as well

[Baragouin]

I know at least one who will not be surprised by this one......:mixed-smiley-010:... but it is really quite cute -
Really very cute Lefty but she was here before and I even remember her name....
Cheers
BG

[lefty]

OK fellows - dumbo here posted this last year :banghead: (could have sworn I hadn't) - the Cabanes-Saissac. Right, here's a floater that hopefully is new to the forum at least......

[Baragouin]

OK fellows - dumbo here posted this last year :banghead: (could have sworn I hadn't) - the Cabanes-Saissac. Right, here's a floater that hopefully is new to the forum at least......
Not quite sure.....SPCA I Type 10/E5?
Cheers
BG

[giruXX]

I guess it's the SPCA Type E-5

[giruXX]

and what about the SPCA T-3 BN4 ?

[Moses03]

Here is what I have on it from my archives. Thought BG was correct on the Type 10.

[lefty]

Well I have it as SPCA Type 10. We are talking French designations here, so there is bound to be disputation ! However, the beer is going to BG......:icon29:

[Baragouin]

Thanks Lefty yes french designations are really intricate and we got here at least three different ones....
anyway here's my today's offer it isn't particularly difficult but the pic is very cute:
http://i.imgur.com/2yXMZ7V.png
BG

[giruXX]

I see a lot of Curtiss XF9C-1 (http://www.aerofiles.com/curt-xf9c1.jpg) in it (Model 58) but it might be a variant which I cannot detect.

[giruXX]

Oops! I have to change my mind it is the General Aviation XFA-1

[lefty]

That's because it's the Atlantic (American Fokker-designed) XFA-1.

[Baragouin]

I see a lot of Curtiss XF9C-1 (http://www.aerofiles.com/curt-xf9c1.jpg) in it (Model 58) but it might be a variant which I cannot detect.
Sorry no Sir
BG
This is my reply to the first answer
My reply to the subsequent answer is: YES SIR the General Aviation XFA1

Now who's the winner? I think Giru therefore he should submit the next question
Cheers
BG

[lefty]

Yes, GX beat me by a short head -just shows it ain't only French machines that have multiple designations - this one has about four !

[giruXX]

Browsing old journals I found this obscure wee thing.

Would anybody here know more about it?

[Moses03]

Hey gX, I have it as the Cambilargiu Folz C.F.1.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://xoomer.virgilio.it/aviostoria/C/CAI/CF-1.htm&prev=search

http://i.imgur.com/RTbjWG7.jpg

[giruXX]

Thank you Kevin! That's a great find (at least for me). :applause: I was desperately searching for Camhilargiu :banghead: Aparently a typo in my wee source.

Over to you :icon29:

[Moses03]

Onward and upward...

http://i.imgur.com/TKiliOS.jpg

[lefty]

That's the Krapish K-4

[Baragouin]

Onward and upward...

http://i.imgur.com/TKiliOS.jpgMmmh she's very similar to a Bloudek XV except for the trousers.....therefore....
Cheers
BG

[Moses03]

Lefty swoops in for the kill.:very_drunk: Krapish...a bit unfortunate name there, despite reports that it flew well.

[lefty]

Here's something a bit newer and really quite a pleasing and well-balanced design, considering its provenance . Naturally, it failed.

[Baragouin]

That's the Krapish K-4
Excellent Lefty her pic isn't even on Aerofiles! (I would like to be your nephew to inherit your pic collection!)
Cheers
BG

[lefty]

What a delightful thought, BG if you were my nephew (!) it would give me an excuse to visit Tuscany......

However, the real treasure trove of pictures is in Moses' vault, a great brass-bound chest he keeps in his cellar. I believe that it will be bequeathed to the Smithsonian Museum - but he's a mere youngster, remember....:mixed-smiley-010:

[wout]

Hi Mike:encouragement:
Is she a member if the Deauville dynasty (SO-7050/SO-7060)?

[giruXX]

She is the SNCASO SO.7055 No.01, F-WEAA (but I guess wout knew that)

[lefty]

Yes, this one's actually the Sud-Ouest SO7055 - I hate those awful acronyms- over to gX again......:very_drunk:

[giruXX]

Thank you Mike.

Here is one without acronym:

[lefty]

Hmm, a toughie, this one. Raab-Katzenstein 'Schwalbe' ??

[giruXX]

It's not the Schwalbe :engel016:

[lefty]

In that case, how about the RK-2 Pelikan ?

[giruXX]

Yes, you got it :icon29

[lefty]

One for the pusher fans....

[wout]

Hi Mike:encouragement:
The Jarvis Jaybird and later known as the Volmer VJ-21. Now in the Wings of History Museum in California.

[lefty]

Or, indeed, Volmer Jensen VJ-21. Over to Holland :very_drunk:

[wout]

This is no.3 in a series of at least 5 or 6 with the same name

[giruXX]

Could this be a Лявин Дельфин (a "Dolphin" built in the town of Kronstadt under the leadership of engineer Peter Lyavin)?

[wout]

Hi giruXX :very_drunk:
The Delfin-3 it is (RA-0539G). Pretty active club there at Kronstadt!
.

[giruXX]

My next is a bit grainy. Hope it works nevertheless!

[Baragouin]

My next is a bit grainy. Hope it works nevertheless!
It should be a Soldenhoff A2....
Cheers
BG

[Moses03]

Ack! Missed nipping in on a pusher!:adoration:


Sidetracked this weekend as our annual Around The World Race is in progress.

Live tracker here. (We are the green icons you can click on to check pilot/alt and speed):

https://www.fsrtwrace.com/followrace.php

[giruXX]

It should be a Soldenhoff A2....
Cheers
BG

Good guess BG. However, it is not the A/2 or I don't have it as such at least.

[Baragouin]

Good guess BG. However, it is not the A/2 or I don't have it as such at least.
I'm afraid it's more than a guess Giru. Please check the attachment and the pic concerning the Soldenhoff A-2 (reg. 1708): Isn't that self-explanatory?
Cheers
BG
http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/flying%20wings/europe_interwar.htm

[giruXX]

Sorry for being pedantic, BG. :engel016: It isn’t the D-1708. I am so pedantic because the name of the craft is unequivocally written on its fuselage. Hélas, not perceivable on the photo but in the video from which I took it. I can confirm that you are very close. :applause:

[Baragouin]

Well I have pics of the Soldenhoff A2, A3, A4 and A5 all of which are very similar (I would say identic) the only flagrant difference amongst them is the following:
- A2 has a flat two (or four) engine without wing tip fins- the same applies to A4 except that she has a radial engine - A3 and A5 (the latter with registration D-2156 have got two or four fins both of them with radial engines.
Since I can see no trace of fins on your pic (unless they are so small that they can barely be seen) I should assume that she must be either an A2 or an A4.
Therefore take your pick!
Cheers
BG
BTW I also have pic of a S5 which is a museum piece located in a Swiss airport (maybe Kloten?)

[Baragouin]

Well I have pics of the Soldenhoff A2, A3, A4 and A5 all of which are very similar (I would say identic) the only flagrant difference amongst them is the following:
- A2 has a flat two (or four) engine without wing tip fins- the same applies to A4 except that she has a radial engine - A3 and A5 (the latter with registration D-2156 have got two or four fins both of them with radial engines.
Since I can see no trace of fins on your pic (unless they are so small that they can barely be seen) I should assume that she must be either an A2 or an A4.
Therefore take your pick!
Cheers
BG
BTW I also have pic of a S5 which is a museum piece located in a Swiss airport (maybe Kloten?)
Another addendum to the a.m. story: checking "Golden years" it appears that registration D-1708 refers to a Soldenhoff LF6 whilst registration D-2156 refers to a Soldenhoff A-5. This implies that the caption referring to D-1708 in the page attached to my previous post is wrong. Now since the item edited by Giru is in my eyes an exact likeness of the wrongly captioned A2 I must assume that Giru's image is LF6!

[giruXX]

BG or someone else: Please check here: https://flughafenbb.wordpress.com/1919-1945/flugpionier-soldenhoff/

(and revise or tell me where I am wrong :teapot:)

my source is this: http://iam.curiousabout.ch/alexander-soldenhoff/

[Baragouin]

BG or someone else: Please check here: https://flughafenbb.wordpress.com/1919-1945/flugpionier-soldenhoff/

(and revise or tell me where I am wrong :teapot:)

my source is this: http://iam.curiousabout.ch/alexander-soldenhoff/
Nobody is telling you that you are wrong! However I challenge anydody to detect any difference whatsoever between the LF5 (as per footage) and the LF6
(wrongly captioned as A2) as appearing on site www.century-of-flight.net.
May I however respectfully end up the story here as I'm getting rather sick and tired of it.
Cheers
BG

[giruXX]

BG there is no reason to get angry. :very_drunk:

I hoped you would refine your research a little bit further and find the video or another clue for an "alternative answer" :semi-twins:. You are right that both machines cannot be distinguished from the video shot. But as the video starts with a close up of the fuselage that shows “LF5 Soldenhoff” I thought I should be on the safe side wrt. the name of the craft.

One difference between the two (i.e. LF5 and LF6) are their engines: two-cylinder or five-cylinder, respectively.

Either BG continues or Open House.

[Baragouin]

Hi Giru!
Sorry if I gave you the impression of getting angry : I just wanted to make my point and thank you for allowing me to proceed. Unfortunately I'm presently not at home and have no documentation ready therefore I'll be excused if I'm asking for a OH.
Cheers
BG

[Moses03]

Okay, let's refresh with something completely different.

http://i.imgur.com/BEhDdIj.jpg

[lefty]

Looks like some oddball mockup, Kevin. Very rum-looking prop, even odder engine, and as for the floats......was this a flier ??

[Moses03]

Not a mockup Mike. She was a flier for sure.

[Moses03]

The younger sibling of this flying boat appeared in this thread in the distant past. It was of similar layout but most notably had a 2-bladed prop and thicker wing struts.

[lefty]

In which case this must be the Argonaut H-20 Pirate ?

[Moses03]

Amazes me how you figured that out with so little info. :guinness: A pint for the Scotsman on the elder Pirate.

[lefty]

Just detective work as usual ! We haven't had a nice Aggie for a while - how about this one ? (It may have been here before, but can't find it.....)

[giruXX]

A Hongdu N-5, perhaps?

Nanchang N5A from :china:

[lefty]

That's the one, gX..:very_drunk:

[giruXX]

Here is a neat little number:

[cthornburg]

MCA HF.XX-02

Chris

[giruXX]

That's her! :icon29:

[Baragouin]

MCA HF.XX-02

Chris
Good on you Chris I just found her on the last page of my last archive book!
BG

[cthornburg]

Should be easy

Chris

[pomme homme]

Hordern-Richmond Autoplane of 1936.

[cthornburg]

Right On over to you

Chris

[pomme homme]

Thank you, Chris. Here's something a little more obscure - and of a more grainy depiction (or should I say pixelatorily challenged!).

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2607/32189571654_2250b87f7f_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/R3tYbJ)

[lefty]

'pixelatorily' eh ? Try saying that after a couple of Calvas........:very_drunk:

[Moses03]

I have the feeling Mike has been waiting to unleash this monograin on us!

[pomme homme]

I can assure you, gentlemen, that what I've offered is not the Russ Conway Pixillated Penguin!

[lefty]

Well, my granny used to like Russ Conway, Mike.....

Actually this unlovely machine is the 1925 B.A.E.G. A20 Monoplane, produced by Leopold Bauer and Max Eger in Brunn. :austria: 596cc 18 hp Douglas engine..

[lefty]

While waiting for Pomme homme, I need some help from you fellows, and am sure some of you will have the answer ! Whilst researching, I came across, in the 1947 Jane's, a description of a Sud-Ouest machine, the G.L.3 Libellule, a sporting twin-boom pusher with Praga engine. There is a full description with dimensions etc., but no illustration.

Can't find out any more, expect for another reference to a Lasserre G.L.3 Libellule, presumably the same aircraft. Can anyone enlighten me, please, as to whether it was ever built and flown ?

[pomme homme]

Well, my granny used to like Russ Conway, Mike.....

Well, I suppose someone had to! Did she like Winifred Atwell as well?


Actually this unlovely machine is the 1925 B.A.E.G. A20 Monoplane, produced by Leopold Bauer and Max Eger in Brunn. :austria: 596cc 18 hp Douglas engine..

Indeed it is. It was produced as a Volksflugzeug but, presumably, der Volk didn't agree as there was only one and der Osterreicher, as a people, weren't prepared to queue for long enough to get their turn to fly it!

Over to you, Mike.

[pomme homme]

While waiting for Pomme homme, I need some help from you fellows, and am sure some of you will have the answer ! Whilst researching, I came across, in the 1947 Jane's, a description of a Sud-Ouest machine, the G.L.3 Libellule, a sporting twin-boom pusher with Praga engine. There is a full description with dimensions etc., but no illustration.

Can't find out any more, expect for another reference to a Lasserre G.L.3 Libellule, presumably the same aircraft. Can anyone enlighten me, please, as to whether it was ever built and flown ?

Does this help - http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13777.msg135058.html#msg135058 (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13777.msg135058.html#msg135058?)

[lefty]

Thanks Mike - my grubbing around didn't reveal that thread !

Am a bit pushed today - here's a very easy one to keep things rolling -

[wout]

Hi Mike :encouragement:
Seems like the Siai-Marchetti SM-101 to me.

[lefty]

Of course, Walter, another one that didn't make it....over to you, sir....:very_drunk:

[wout]

It is quite some time that we had a Cub-look-a-like. Hope we did not have it earlier.

[wout]

She was a one-off developed/built by students

[Moses03]

Brazil Walter?

[wout]

Affirmative Kevin:applause:
Now only need the name, the organisation that created her, the registration and the name of the test pilot`s dog.

[pomme homme]

Don't know about the first three, but the fourth one is caozinho!

:dog:

[wout]

This is a better photo of the lady. Taken in 1962. I know there is at least a third photo around.

[Baragouin]

This is a better photo of the lady. Taken in 1962. I know there is at least a third photo around.
I have something in my modest Archives which is pretty similar: CNNA HL/1 built in Brazil in 1940...however I'm not sure I'll keep on searching!
Cheers
BG
Here I think I've found her: I.T.A. "Panelinha" (1963 - Brazil PP-ZTN)!
Cheers
BG
PS I've got exactly the same pic as Wout...
The organisation is or was: Instituto Tecnologicas Aeronautica...I'm sorry but I can't be specific about the test pilot's dog...

[wout]

Hi Baragouin:very_drunk:
That is the one. She was mainly used as a glider tug and the engine was a 145hp RR/Continental C145-2 (O-300).

May I invite you for the next challenge?

[Baragouin]

Hi Baragouin:very_drunk:
That is the one. She was mainly used as a glider tug and the engine was a 145hp RR/Continental C145-2 (O-300).

May I invite you for the next challenge?
It is already a honour for me to be able to crack a Wout mystery! I expect to come up soon with something new...
Cheers
BG
Well I found this one which isn't that difficult but I liked the pic!
Cheers
BG
http://i.imgur.com/NrTA9ln.jpg

[giruXX]

Could this be UTB-2 from Tupolev's bureau?

A Low-powered trainer designed by P. O. Sukhoi, also called UTB (Uchyebno-Trenirovochnyi Bombardirovshchik for training bomber).

[Baragouin]

Could this be UTB-2 from Tupolev's bureau?

A Low-powered trainer designed by P. O. Sukhoi, also called UTB (Uchyebno-Trenirovochnyi Bombardirovshchik for training bomber).
Yes indeed Giru: a Sukhoi UTB2...your turn please
Cheers
BG

[giruXX]

Thanks BG!

Here is my next (it looks like a mixture of other well-known aircraft).

[Baragouin]

Thanks BG!

Here is my next (it looks like a mixture of other well-known aircraft).
I think she's a Macchi MC99....
Cheers
BG

[giruXX]

... and that's her :icon29:

[Baragouin]

Hi boys and girls!
Here's my (easy being over a weekend) today's offer
Cheers
BG
http://i.imgur.com/a6jJmBV.png

[lefty]

It's gone quiet in here....

Always apprehensive when someone announces 'a nice easy one' - they rarely are !

Took a while to find the Avro Buffalo, in its final incarnation as a floatplane.

[Baragouin]

It's gone quiet in here....

Always apprehensive when someone announces 'a nice easy one' - they rarely are !

Took a while to find the Avro Buffalo, in its final incarnation as a floatplane.
Yes Lefty Avro 572 "Buffalo" in hydro dress:applause:
and now your turn....
Cheers
BG

[lefty]

Thanks BG. Now, minimalism is all the rage these days - so here's an aircraft that can't get much more minimal ! Only trouble is, with me on board, it would certainly never leave the ground.........

[giruXX]

I figured out that the payload for this wee craft is 200 lbs :adoration:

[lefty]

Exactly- no chance !

[Moses03]

I think Tim Conrad modeled one for FS2004 many years ago.

For the accounting department:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beecraft_Wee_Bee

[lefty]

What a very brave pilot that was.... over to Texas, although Gx obviously knew... :very_drunk:

[Moses03]

A bomber prototype freshly rolled out from the hangar.

http://i.imgur.com/ecmg4XN.jpg

[Moses03]

Maybe this will help as the photo is a bit dark. Less than 10 came off the line.

http://i.imgur.com/QXDBpBA.jpg

[Moses03]

Wright engine and first flown in 1923...

[lefty]

It seems at least 5 manufacturers had a go at building the Douglas DT-2, and with several modifications. I'll plump for the Naval Aircraft Factory DT-5. (or is it DT-4 ?)

[Moses03]

Good show Mike, it is the NAF DT-4 torpedo bomber.:guinness:

[lefty]

Something grainy and pushy.....

[giruXX]

Well, this might be the General Aircraft GAL.33 Cagnet

[Moses03]

Notice how Lefty pulled the most grainy photo he could find for it. You would almost think typical Russian photography at first glance.:biggrin-new:

[lefty]

I have grainier ones than that.........gX takes the baton -:very_drunk:

[giruXX]

Some color and another type of aircraft for a wee change :rugby:

[srgalahad]

Well, that was an interesting morning search :banghead:

However, it's the Rotorfly R-33

http://en.avia.pro/blog/vertolyot-rotorfly-r-30-tehnicheskie-harakteristiki-foto

and while we are on the subject... (co-axial fling-wing things)

[giruXX]

Nice find srgalahad :icon29: Your turn of course!

[srgalahad]

Thanks gX!
I posted another at the same time - running a bit short of months in a day and I was sure once I saw your pic was on the page (flipped) :untroubled:

It is really too easy, but the similarity added interest.

[srgalahad]

everyone hates helicopters?

OK this and the previous share several details...

[giruXX]

Well, I know. :encouragement: But I don't want to play "ping pong".

B.t.w. I stepped on the R-33 when I first found this one.

[lefty]

I think Rob's probably right to a certain extent, in that not many of the old lags here are helicopter specialists, but that's no reason not to post them. I certainly don't hate choppers, and find them quite fascinating, but just don't know a lot about 'em !
Also, there appear to be very few serious books specifically about rotorcraft - if you know of one, tell me.......

Go for it, gX - I had a brief look, thinking it was maybe :canada: - but if it is, couldn't find it !

[wout]

hi srgalahad:encouragement:
I think the whirlybird in your pic is called the Rotorfly (the 2005 prototype), but nowadays known as the Rotor International RI-30 Eaglet. A product of the Kamerton Design Bureau, assoctiated with the Kamov Helicopter company, hence the co-axial rotors in Kamov tradition. AFAIK there were plans (ca.2010) for a German/Russian j/v with production in Russia (kits) marketing in Germany. but donot know the present status.

[giruXX]

JAWA 2015 :wink-new:

[lefty]

JAWA 2015 :wink-new:

If you have a copy going cheap, Gx..........:encouragement: (last time I looked they were going for about £500.)

[pomme homme]

.... and the rest, it seems! The 'top whack' is in the region of US $1600. Is such a price due to the fact that whilst the print run gets into triple figures, it doesn't get out of them? Presumably it's not available to purchase as a download.

[Moses03]

Occasionally I will price JAWA for the years 1925 to 1935 but they are so expensive I mostly give up!

[lefty]

The reason is that JAWA is a specialist book bought mainly by institutions - many of my old ones are from Government libraries, armed forces etc. Very few individuals will buy one. Like all complex low-print-run items, they are very expensive.

The irony is that the 'middle ages' (i.e. 60's and 70's issues, are very cheap, but go further back and the prices start to rise again. I have 1926,31,34,37 and 38, but decided enough was enough !

It also has to be said that the early Jane's were not nearly as comprehensive as they became later, and tend to feature only major manufacturers.

Anyway, enough of Jane's - where's Wout's next mystery ????

[srgalahad]

:very_drunk: Yes Wout! :very_drunk:

Kumertau Kamov Rotorfly / RI 30 Eaglet

http://www.helistart.com/helicopters/Kumertau_Kamov/Rotorfly
"The machine was presented to the public for the first time at the Moscow Air Show in 2005. Unfortunately, selling the helicopter proved to be difficult because it had to be built by the buyer. It was for this reason that a deal was made with Kamov (2008), which now builds the Rotorfly on a custom order basis only and delivers it as ready-to-fly."

[giruXX]

JAWA 2015-16 says:
Rotorfly R-30 Orlenok
English name: Eaglet
Type: Two-seat ultralight helicopter.
Programme: Designed by Boris Podnebesnov, former designer at KumAPP plant. Two or more prototypes (built by KumAPP, by which known as Patrul) undergoing testing by August 2005, when type exhibited statically at Moscow Salon. By 2010, a second example was registered RA-0800G and flying with Inflatable floats. Another, in military camouflage was complete by 2010 and marked '01'. Total flying time of more than 300 hours by end of 2011.
Current Versions: R-30 Orlenok: As described.
R-33: Shown in mockup form at Airshow China, Zhouhai. November 2014. Four-seat version. differing considerably in detail.

I agree that the price is unafordable for a private person. But look at the text: that's far from Oxford English of earlier times, more like babelfish of the russian original :mixed-smiley-027:

[wout]

Thank you Gentlemen, for all the info on the RI-30/Eagle etc. whirlybirds.
I overcame the problem of those very expensive JAWAs. I sold the ones I had many years ago and then had the luck of finding a friend who collected dozens of copies (and kept them). Turned out to be a good, reliable and above all, inexpensive source when I need information. :applause:

Next challenge is a one-off which sadly no longer exists.

[giruXX]

KARI BORA from South Korea, see JAWA 2004-05 and http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27409.msg283961.html#msg283961

[wout]

Hi giruXX :encouragement:
Bingo and the right to post the next challenge!

[giruXX]

Here comes a piece of candy for our floater friend(s) :wavey:

[Baragouin]

This seems to me like a Ilyushin DB-3PT (if we are to trust russian designations!)
Cheers
BG

[giruXX]

That's fine :icon29: dear friend. The key word is DB-PT (Popla-vokovyi torpedonosets - Torpedo floatplane)

[Baragouin]

Thanks Giru!
Following is a well known floater but the pic is so nice that I couldn't resist the temptation to edit it!
Here we gohttp://i.imgur.com/qn6TVic.jpg
Cheers
BG

[lefty]

There's me trying to stay out of the forum for a wee while, because I'm busy, and you guys keep posting floaters!.......this one is the first version before an engine change...........:mixed-smiley-010:

[pomme homme]

BG, leaving the word 'Dornier' prominently displayed in the image does make it rather difficult not to suggest that she's a Do. 12A!

[Baragouin]

BG, leaving the word 'Dornier' prominently displayed in the image does make it rather difficult not to suggest that she's a Do. 12A!
You're right pomme-homme rather silly of me (my poor eye-sight is betraying me all the more often! and of course she's a Libelle III with Argus engine)
Your turn of course...
Cheers!
BG

[pomme homme]

Thank you, BG. I'll send you my spare magnifying glass!

As this forum seems presently to have a propensity for wee things, this one might appeal!

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/723/33134243761_a7d70dfb96_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/StXEhR)

[giruXX]

Really wee :encouragement:

[Baragouin]

Thank you, BG. I'll send you my spare magnifying glass!

As this forum seems presently to have a propensity for wee things, this one might appeal!

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/723/33134243761_a7d70dfb96_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/StXEhR)
Noel/Parmentier Wee Mite...I think....
Cheers
BG

[pomme homme]

Aye, that's the wee thing, BG. I mite have guessed that it wouldn't gang fur lang! :wink:

[Baragouin]

Thanks pomme-homme, Hi boys and girls!
Changing subject may I offer you following interwar item:
http://i.imgur.com/KkAJKrb.jpg
Cheers
BG

[lefty]

BG, you silenced everyone !

Looks a bit Balkan to me, but haven't been able to match it yet.....

[Baragouin]

BG, you silenced everyone !

Looks a bit Balkan to me, but haven't been able to match it yet.....
Yes rather balkanian (or balkanish I don't know) anyway 25 of them were built from a rather famous manufacturer (a distinctive feature of all its Aircrafts is a triangular shaped tail which unfortunately cannot be appreciated on my pic)...
Cheers
BG

[lefty]

Should have looked more carefully - my pic looks quite different in character - it is the Aero A-211. I hope our Czech friends will excuse me alluding to them as Balkans.......:banghead:

[Baragouin]

Should have looked more carefully - my pic looks quite different in character - it is the Aero A-211. I hope our Czech friends will excuse me alluding to them as Balkans.......:banghead:
Yes Lefty she's the Aero 211 and in my clue I wasn't specific enough I should have alluded to a "mitteleuropaeischer landlocked country"...anyway your well deserved turn and sorry for the delay!
Cheers
BG

[lefty]

Thanks BG. This one's from a wee country that is NOT landlocked, nor is it anywhere near the Balkans....

[giruXX]

Could this be the ANBO I single-seat aircraft developed in Lithuania?

[lefty]

Now there's a surprise.....:mixed-smiley-010:..... yes of course it is Lieutenant Gustaitis' little flivver......:very_drunk:

[giruXX]

Look, I do have grainy pictures as well.

[wout]

hi giruXX:encouragement:
The Mk.1 Utility with inflatable wing built by M.L.Aviation Co.Ltd for the British Aviation Ministry/Royal Army Air Corps.
Now in the Museum of Army Flying, Middle Wallop?

[giruXX]

Hi Wout :encouragement:

That's her, indeed :icon29:

[wout]

This novelty appeared 1989/1990 and she was flown! Development was, however, soon halted.

[Moses03]

I hope Uncle Joe put a wheel on the bottom of the cruciform tail before flight testing.

[wout]

Hi Kevin:encouragement:.
Good question!. Have no clue at all. Maybe the so-called 3-surfaces controls have to do with the t/o behaviour?
In the sketch no tail wheel is visible either.

[giruXX]

There is a photo from a test flight that doesn't show a tail wheel :adoration:

[wout]

hi giruXX:encouragement:
Dud you receive yesterday`s PM? Cannot find cnfirmation it actually went out to you.

[wout]

The 3-surfacer is US by a well-known designer/co-designer, who has several other aircraft (high wing, push/pull, gyrocopter, scaled WW2 replica, pusher/twin boom to give a few) to his name.

[wout]

She is the Nova by Aircraft Designs, Inc. (Mr. Martin Hollman). Designs he was involved in include the Stallion, Starkraft 700, Thunder Mustang, HA-2M gyro, etc.
OH please :jump:

[Moses03]

This one is a bit elusive...

http://i.imgur.com/umEUpZc.jpg

[giruXX]

Is it from Russia (i.e. former Soviet Union)?

[Moses03]

Hey gX, good thought due to high grain content but you can strike Russia off the list...

[Baragouin]

Hey Moses the kings of tandem wing aircrafts are french therefore.......(but I can't go any further!)
Cheers
BG

[Moses03]

Good eye BG on the tandem wing arrangement. It is indeed French!

No doubt right in pomme homme's wheelhouse.:biggrin-new:

[pomme homme]

I'm fairly sure that it's a pre-war avion formule Mignet but I must admit that it's not one known to me and I haven't time, this evening, to plough through the 1930s issue of Les Ailes in the hope of finding it.

[Moses03]

It is pre-war but just by a few months. Interesting in that it had a Citroen engine.

[giruXX]

Is it then connected to the Mistral by Senaumon, Delahodde and Perrot?

[Moses03]

Figured the search term "citroen" would turn something up. It is the Perrot et Senaumon Mistral of 1939. Over to gX.:icon29:

Here is the original article I had and I don't think it is from Les Ailes. There is another article in Les Ailes which I think gX found but without a photo.

http://i.imgur.com/GRhZc3y.jpg

[srgalahad]

Well, the last paragraph of the article qualifies as my 'morning chuckle' -

"The tests of this propotype were undertaken in the vast desertic plain of Crau, favorable to a development without witness. But the nature of this terrain, strewn with pebbles, put the solidity of the "Mistral" to a rude test from which it came out to his honor."

Sounds like a bit of a rough ride :adoration:

[giruXX]

Oh Moses03,

that was extremely tough. :pop4: Like searching a needle in a bunch of haystacks.

Here is what I found:

an interview with M. Perrot in ≪Les Ailes≫ of 23.03.1939: http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k65546871/f12.item.auto=2

Technically it is interesting to note the floating rigid wing (aile vivante), i.e. a wing without ailerons.

The final fate of the craft seems to be published in ≪l’Humanité≫ (2-7-39): http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k407859b/f2.image.r=%22avion%20mistral%22?rk=42918;4

[giruXX]

A quick floater for in between, perhaps? :wiggle: Which specific aircraft is this?

[pomme homme]

The final fate of the craft seems to be published in ≪l’Humanité≫ (2-7-39): http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt...%22?rk=42918;4 (http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k407859b/f2.image.r=%22avion%20mistral%22?rk=42918;4)

As that short report in L'Humanité refers to the avion Mistral which crashed on 1 July 1939 being in the course of a test flight for the Coupe Deutsch, I wonder whether this was not the Perrot et Senaumon Mistral but some other aeroplane bearing the name Mistral. Judging by the photograph and the details of the Perrot et Senaumon Mistral, I wouldn't envisage this as being a likely competitor in the Coupe Deutsch. But this issue is complicated further still by the fact that there wasn't a Coupe Deutsch de la Meurthe race in 1939, the last having taken place in 1936. Now what is it that Lefty says about aviation in France between the wars ..... !

[lefty]

While you're all debating the niceties of Gallic flivvers ,I can't resist having a bash at gX's floater. Is it D-ANHR, the Dornier Do18L ?

[richard B]

Pomme homme is right : here the Mistral intended for the coupe Deutsch :

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k65546767.item

[pomme homme]

From:
L'histoire de l'aviation - Les pilotes d'essai et de voltige par Claude Clément (Conférence du mardi 23 février 2010)(Résumé et illustré par le conférencier, mise en page de Christian Lambinet)

'Lignel et Ambrosini étudient un nouveau bolide pour la coupe Deutsch: le Lignel 30 "mistral". A Buc, en 1939, la piste est bien trop courte pour cet avion et le Mistral sera démonté et transporté sur le terrain de Beauvais, beaucoup plus vaste. Le 30 juin, Louis Clément décolle et prend de l’altitude, soudain l’hélice passe brutalement sur grand pas et le couple engendré ne pu être contré efficacement vu la faible envergure. Le Mistral part alors en tonneau déclenché en montée, le fuselage éclate et Louis se retrouve brutalement éjecté, pour la seconde fois de sa vie il est sauvé par son parachute!'

[giruXX]

Thanks for clarification of the Mistrals!

The Dornier goes to Lefty with a :icon29:

[lefty]

With that meandering thread, I've lost track of who has the honour currently (gX ?)
Anyway, I have nothing on hand, so await the next mystery !

(I'll be busy watching a rather important rugby match.....:england: v :scotland: )

[wout]

This one is rather new. She already got her N-number and maiden flight could take place very very soon.
Btw, not intended for production.

[lefty]

Certainly brings a new interpretation of 'Historical' !

[wout]

She will be, in time, just as rugby scores :untroubled:.
Not historical, yet, but mysterious then. The BA-14 Cougar (N456BA) by Bergey Aerospace.
Google for info on this new research(?) aircraft

OH please

[giruXX]

So, let’s turn the time wheel a bit backwards then.:bee:

[lefty]

Don't know where everyone else has gone, gX, so I'll have a go at the prototype Iberavia (A.I.S.A.) I-11 Peque......:spain:

Shame they mucked about with it - the prototype was very neat.

[Moses03]

Here is a larger photo I had of it.

http://i.imgur.com/BeXU0P1.jpg

[giruXX]

Welcome back in your "comfort zone", lefty and have a :icon29: or two on the I-11!

[lefty]

Not so much 'comfort zone' gX, it's just a total unawareness of those newbies that are hardly out of the wrapper !

Here's one that came out of its wrapper some time ago -

[Moses03]

The ugly Ikarus P-453MW Sir.

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/xplane/453/453-3.jpg

[lefty]

Indeed, Kevin. Trust you to find an even grainier shot......over to Texas...:guinness:

[Moses03]

Two seater biplane to consider.

http://i.imgur.com/YQj1Lrz.jpg

[lefty]

Pretty ropey number, this one! That cowl ring looks as though it's been made from old cornflake packets.....

[Moses03]

Yes, the townend ring is not pretty by any means.

http://i.imgur.com/PNGJJOg.jpg

This trainer was tested in 1935 but was not enough of an improvement over the previous trainer to put into production.

[lefty]

Is it by any chance Italian ?

[Moses03]

Not Italian. You would have to travel Northeast from there to find this one.

The builder had his hands in many designs dating from the early 1920's (mostly lesser-known types). The following year he designed a single-engine biplane flying boat that could be readily identified.

This trainer had a 7-cylinder 200hp engine.

[Baragouin]

Not Italian. You would have to travel Northeast from there to find this one.

The builder had his hands in many designs dating from the early 1920's (mostly lesser-known types). The following year he designed a single-engine biplane flying boat that could be readily identified.

This trainer had a 7-cylinder 200hp engine.
Poland?....Lublin?.....
BG

[Moses03]

Further...from the land of the grainy photo.:russia:

[giruXX]

It is the Mikhelson U-3

[Moses03]

That it is. Have at it gX.:very_drunk:

[giruXX]

Here is a new offer:

[Moses03]

Erco 310 designed by Fred Weick.

Anyone have a photo of a single tail 310? Supposedly the prototype had a single tail for a short period before changing to the familiar twin tail.

[giruXX]

Spot on Moses03 :icon29: It looks as if this photo had been taken after the change of the fin.

[Dev One]

I must admit that I thought it was a bit too obvious & I could not reconcile the different engine cowling...ah well, one lives & hopefully learns!
Keith

[Moses03]

Side view would give this one away quick. Maybe the frontal will slow you down for about 5 min?:biggrin-new:

http://i.imgur.com/7XCI2tM.jpg

[giruXX]

indeed :encouragement:

[Moses03]

A one-off bomber that did not see production. Tested in 1919.

[Moses03]

Sounds like gX has it, but in case not here is the clincher...

http://i.imgur.com/OPGBomK.jpg

[Baragouin]

That's more like it!
Caproni Ca61...
Cheers
BG

[Moses03]

A BG special. :icon29:

[Baragouin]

Thanks Moses and sorry for the delay...
Here comes my today's offer and apologies for the smallish pic!
Cheers
BG
http://i.imgur.com/OfuNGdj.jpg

[giruXX]

A Caproni Ca.5 perhaps?

Correction: Ca.57 - (or Breda M-1) - airliner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airliner) conversion of war-surplus Ca.44s.

[Baragouin]

Yes Giru that's correct under every aspect (though I knew her as a Breda M-1)!
Your turn please
Cheers
BG

[giruXX]

Here is a new offer:

[lefty]

Has a Teutonic look about it - possibly a Caspar ? - can't pin this one down....

[giruXX]

The look is alright, but Caspar isn't.

[Moses03]

Thought the same thing Mike maybe Caspar or Udet but nothing has come up yet.

[Baragouin]

The look is alright, but Caspar isn't.
Very similar to the Udet U12a but....?
Cheers
BG

[lefty]

I have a description of the L.F.G. V.58 which fits.....

[giruXX]

... and the beer goes to Scotland:icon29:
I didn’t expect any problem with this one.

It is indeed the LFG V.58 (several photos exist).

[lefty]

(several photos exist) - quite possibly, gX, but not in any of my books, nor on the net, that I can find !

Anyway, here's a nice floater - on a glassy sea....(or possibly a lake...)

[Baragouin]

Hello Lefty!

Very very similar to the CANT6 or 6Ter.....
Cheers
BG

[lefty]

Hi BG

It isn't very similar - it IS the Cant 6ter ! :very_drunk:

Here's the original -

[Baragouin]

Thanks Lefty a very nice pic indeed!
Here's my offer which, being a Monday, is an easy one in order not to overstress people's minds after their strenuous Sunday....
Cheers!
BGhttp://i.imgur.com/eUBT6Qk.jpg

[giruXX]

No taker for the Yakovlev AIR-12 ?

[Baragouin]

Yakovlev AIR12 indeed:applause:...I'm surprised it took that long!
Your turn please,,,,
Cheers
BG

[giruXX]

... I thought the Yak would be a good entry point for a newcomer

Next offer: What is this?

[lefty]

This looks suspiciously like one of those wooden decoy aircraft from WW2 - shades of Heinkel/Kawasaki there ? The undercarriage looks particularly unlikely !

[giruXX]

It's impossible to fox a Scotsman :icon29: :guinness:

here is it in full:

[lefty]

Thanks Gx - believe me, this Scotsman is foxed quite a lot of the time - must be my age...!

Here's an obscurity- which means one of you lot will give me the answer in about five minutes -:wiggle:

[cthornburg]

Finnish Adaridi

As you know I just got Lear job so in the process of moving. So Open House

Chris

[lefty]

Good spot, Chris, with the little Finn - and good luck with the new job (flying Lear35's and Falcons - some have it tough.....!) :very_drunk:

I have nothing in the wings, so - anybody like to step in with a new mystery, please ?

[wout]

Not that old and the picture is not that grainy. Sorry for that.

[giruXX]

The two-seat version of the Sellet-Pelletier Grillon 120, me thinks.

[wout]

That is her:very_drunk:. I donot know whether the name Grillon 135 is official.
giroXX, please do me a favour and send a list of the aircraft you donot know.

Your turn, Sir!

[giruXX]

I am 100% sure that such a list would be endless, i.e., you must wait forever.

It is better to know where to search and to improve one’s search techniques.

My next one is an interesting aircraft. Which specific one is it? (i.e. not just manufacturer and type, but manufacturer and sub-type would be OK)

[giruXX]

Here is a second view in case you need it (which I didn't expect)

[giruXX]

There is a Napier Lion engine under the hood.

[Moses03]

Have no idea what this is other than it is from Europe. Guess we need several more clues.

Anyone else?

[giruXX]

I thought the community might have split in two parts. One who thinks that the last plane is too easy (and nobody of this group wants to get blamed for taking the cherry from the cake), and one who needs more hints.

The basic type was built more than 100 times. However, if you google for pictures with the type's name most of these show this very specific variant. It became famous with an extraordinary flight and it differs from its sisters by the engine and, most prominently, the coolers. This is why I thought it would be better to ask for this special variant.

[pomme homme]

The Napier Lion was quite prolifically used. Maybe your clue would be more effective if you were to say which variant this aeroplane employed. Just take a look at Lumsden's tome. The list is as long as my arm!

[lefty]

Yes, gX, just remember, mysteries are always easy when you know the answer ! I've been up a few blind alleys with this one already.......

[giruXX]

Ok, Ok. At the end you will agree :)


Famous designer who became leader of his own design bureau for many, many years. Several of his designs are still in service.

(The hint with the enigne was meant to define this specific airplane) I still think that it should be possible/easy to identify an aircraft that came out of series production. Compared to what you have shown or identified here before, this is ridiculous. :engel016:
Based on the right book it would take 5 minutes. Based on a data file, say 30 or 45. :encouragement:

[giruXX]

some (elder than mine) sources say that the engine was a Liberty

Sorry, if this caused you headaches!!

The registration starts with RR-

[lefty]

Finally, a clue that has given it away ! (talk about Red herrings......) It's the Tupolev ANT-3 R-3/M-5 - depends on which book you are consulting !

[giruXX]

:guinness: lefty!

What I know for sure is that it is RR-SOV flown by Gromov and Radzevich through Europe in a few days.

My first source named it Tupolev R-3 NL (for Napier Lion). This is why I thought the engine would be a good hint.
Now I found sources claiming another engine. :confused:

[lefty]

Thanks gX

I'll pull myself indoors from our heatwave (!) -how pleasant to be able to sit in the garden with a small glass....

Here's one which will avoid too much confusion as to its power plant...

[dan_pub]

I have this contraption as the "Glider with Tadpole Wing" under development in Melbourne in 1945.
That's not much in way of designation but it's all I have I'm afraid.

[pomme homme]

I think that it was known as the DHA-G2. A57-1 was used as a test bed for the suction wing trials. Apparently it wasn't very successful due to the amount of drag on the fuselage (yes, I know, I'll get my coat)!

[lefty]

Dan, that's a brave effort, but the refreshment has to go to PH for his, as ever, immaculate response.

Nice site about the Aussie gliders here - http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a57.htm

Over to darkest Gaul from sunny Caledonia ! :very_drunk:

[pomme homme]

Thank you, Mike. Gaul has been pleasantly warm and sunny today, with only the vestiges of the easterlies that have made lambing so difficult over the past week. But whilst I labour, that picture suggests that you've had a sybaritic day, enjoying both gourmet and gourmand pleasures, so I trust that you'll forgive me leaving the next challenge until tomorrow whilst I'm called to a dinner of roast pork and traditional vegetables - oh, and maybe a glass or two of Saumur Champigny.

[pomme homme]

Apologies for the delay. Here's something which is nothing if not distinctive!

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3849/33682276435_66528bc5d7_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Tjotj4)

[wout]

Hi PH :encouragement:
The 1963/1964 Flash (F-WLUC) by J.Despretz.
Have seen her designated as J-13 Flash, Jidey Flash and even as JI-31. Understand she originally had a single main wheel, tail skid and small outrigger wheels.

[pomme homme]

I thought that this one might be up your street, Walter. You're more than 100% correct as you provided more information about the Jidey J-13 Flash than I had! Your turn, sir.

[wout]

Thank you PH:encouragement::encouragement:
Back to the grainy pics. Amphibian for two and both are in the photo.

[wout]

Should be not too difficult for those with a long(er) memory.

[giruXX]

Could it be the

Loening Duckling 1929 = 2pCmwMAm; 110hp Warner Scarab. POP: 1 [X913W]. First product of Loening's new company.

?

[wout]

Sorry giruXX:encouragement:, not a Loening
She is much younger.