Good news for GMC Chrysler and Ford.

[Helldiver]

I have a had a revelation. This will solve all the auto makers’ problems. This epiphany came to me while trying to solve the nation’s dilemma. Not only will it provide jobs but even the Butcher, Baker and the Candlestick Maker will all benefit from it. Plus it will not cost the Government any extra money.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
All we have to do is to charge a $1,000 surcharge for every auto supplier whose name ends in “A”.<o:p></o:p>
That would be <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Toyota</st1:place></st1:City>, Honda, Mazda, Acura, KIA and Maxima. The $1,000 dollars would be then turned over to GMC, Chrysler and Ford to hold off bankruptcy.<o:p></o:p>
This being a Democracy, outfits like Nissan, Hundai and Subaru will be spared the surcharge.
Soon our factories will be humming and people will be back to work. As one man once stated, “What’s good for General Motors, is good for the <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region>”.<o:p></o:p>

[GT182]

LMAO... great idea heldiver, but try and collect it. ;)

[Piglet]

Maxima is made by Nissan.
Still won't make GM,Chrysler, or Ford make a car I like.

[crashaz]

ROFL! Nice one Helldiver!:applause:

[Helldiver]

Hey Tim, Have you driven a Ford lately?
They topped Toyota in quality.

[Lionheart]

A corporation being stupid and making goofy decisions does not help America.

gm killed the electric car a decade ago just because they couldnt make enough on it. It is probably the worst mistake they have made. Toyota is running with the ball and making cars that people want, and they are made by Americans, not Chinese.

Also, if gm takes 7 Billion American dollars (EDIT) 'every year' to stay in business and fuel their squadron of private jets to stay 'in the red' then perhaps we should pay that money to move them to China. Lets get manufacturers in here that will employ Americans and make a profit, 'and' (and) make cars we like and want.


My humble 2 cents worth.


Bill

[Naismith]

Glad I bought a Suzuki. LOL

[Lionheart]

I saw their new Camaro yesterday in a Walmart parking lot. What a wild looking machine! nice...

The last I heard, they werent going to make it and that the president of Chevy said he would need 'so many orders' from people to make it happen. Glad he did.

People like him and DeLorean were responsible for making great cars happen and making gm huge. gm fights their own people and customers..

arrghh.. man, I sound negative. (smacks self)

[crashaz]

They will get out of it. Tommorrow's news on the new regulations... they want to start shooting for 35.5 mpg by 2016.

First though they need to get back on their feet and pay back the gov't pronto... otherwise we may really have Government Motors... ie see Russian cars. :monkies:

[tigisfat]

I'm a huge ford fan, but I'm tired of getting the shaft by American auto makers. I konw it's been said before, but it still blows my mind sometimes that GM, Chrysler and Ford are all foreign cars. The new Toyota full sized truck was designed and bulit in Texas, and they offer special editions to Texans who are proud of that. That truck is as American as it gets. What about GM's trucks? They're bulit in Mexico City. There's nothing American about them.

I don't owe anything to these American auto manufacturers, and neither does anyone else. They certainly haven't done me any favors. They've been cutting positions, making crappy vehicles, and soaking up my tax dollars for a while.

Helldiver, your idea is absolutely rediculous and about as unamerican as opinions come. Are you sure you're not a communist?:173go1: You want the government to redistribute profits and wealth instead of letting companies and people fail and succeed through performance?


Oh, and Maxima is not an auto manufacturer.:bump:

[wombat666]

Hey Tim, Have you driven a Ford lately?
They topped Toyota in quality.

HD ........ they couldn't 'Top' a bottom of the range KIA!
'Ford' and 'Quality' are two words that never appear in the same sentence.
:173go1:

[Helldiver]

I would implement it on December 7th. - Remermber Pearl Harbor.
The Toyota may be made in Texas but the profits go to Toyota-San.

[wombat666]

GM to Close 1100 Dealers

Large-scale dealership closing will result in the loss of 137,330 jobs.
May 18, 2009 1:19 PM

First it was Chrysler, which last week declared it would close 789 dealerships. Now, it's GM, upping the 'screw the little guy for the big guys' mistakes' ante to 1,100 dealership closings.
GM is downsizing as quickly as possible, hoping to save what it can of itself, and when its plan for dealer closings was rejected by the Obama administration back in February for not going far enough, GM knew it had to come up with something more drastic. And not just to impress its benefactor the US government, but because the writing had been on the wall for a long time and new CEO Fritz Henderson has finally come around to recognizing it.
GM will be cutting its dealership ranks by and additional 1,100 to 3,600 by next year. Down from the 5,969 dealers it had at the end of 2008, a total reduction of 40 percent. It has notified those dealers that are to close by letter and will have to buy back about 65,000 cars from them in order for them to step aside more readily.
About 400 to 500 dealerships will go by way of eliminating the Saab, Hummer and Saturn brands. GM expects the remaining dealers, the weakest performing ones, to close down voluntarily. 137,330 people will be losing their jobs.
GM is doing all this painful slashing in the hope of averting what now seems inevitable, following Chrysler into bankruptcy.

Cue the falling curtain. :USA-flag:

[hey_moe]

Well I must be part Jap,Nazi,Chinese, cus I stop buying American cars years ago. The last one was a Dodge Ram in 89 and that was it.The wife and I have been buying Honda's. The last eight that we have owned, never had a problem. Only thing we had to do is change the oil and tires. The two Chev's I owned spent more time in the shop than on the road.The Fords weren't any different. My company in the last two years brought 1762 Chev vans. We have been buying Ford's for the last twenty years but they lost our contract. The 09 Chev van I got has been in the shop 11 times, the 08 van wasn't any different. The other techs have the same problems too. We also brought some Dodge Sprinter vans. They are large and drive like a tank....the first three that were delivered to our unit by trailer had to be towed to the dealership because they wouldn't start. They stayed in the shop for 2 weeks. Once the techs got all the parts and tools on the truck...within two weeks all three had to be put back in the shop...what does this tell you. We have emailed different service units in different areas in the country and they also report the same problems we are having. The electrical problems we have had with the Chev. van are unreal. There is nothing like being out in BFE and the van breaks down. This new one I got .....the first day I drove it, one of the oil lines snapped by the steering shaft and next thing I noticed I had zero oil pressure...I had 52 miles on it. The dealership had to order the part. They said it was routed to close to the shaft and when I turned the wheel it snapped off. Guess what...90 % of these vans had the same problem We have 6700 service techs at A&E and when we pull a van off the road for a couple of weeks it kills us. The tech has to do service calls in a empty truck with no parts on it until he gets his back. In Feb. we had so many of these so called new trucks break down we didn't have enough spare trucks to go around..what do you do then :monkies:...Mike

[Snuffy]

... Toyota is running with the ball and making cars that people want, ...

Sorry Bill, Toyota will never make a car that I want ...

Nor none of the rest of them regardless that they are now made in the states by American citizens ...

[Cratermaker]

Everyone needs to make sure what these quality surveys are about.

As far as I can tell, JD powers only ranks initial quality (rolling off the assembly line) at worst, or well within the warranty period at best.
All this tells me is how they rank on Quality control and perhaps the quality of the assembly workers.

All the manufacturers are about the same for quality within the first three years (Chrysler being a notable exception, lower quality than the rest).
The REAL question is, how they are AFTER the warranty period and this is where the big divergence comes in. Toyota, Honda and even Ford now at the high end (for LEAST problems), GM mid-range, Chrysler at the bottom again.

So what does this mean? Most of 'em are doing great QC now, but some have better engineered products that have fewer problems over a lifetime.

None of this matters if you are leasing (I don't). But a lot of people do and never get to see the problems that vehicles bring when they get older or the cost savings either.

Oh and whatever happened to the doom and gloom about 1 in 10 jobs being affected if GM and Chrysler went bankrupt? Seems like the numbers are well below this.

[jmig]

After six months and 17,000 miles I still love my GMC Acadia. The only problem I have had is a simi-bad air pressure sensor on the right rear wheel.

My wife also loves her 2008 Honda CRV.

So, I guess we are a mixed marriage. :bump:

[GT182]

Yeah, GM screwed up big time with electric car. Now, if this company can make an electric car with up to a 300 mile range and be a sports car too, why in h3ll can't the Not So Big 3 make an affordable electric car for everyone?

The only thing that kills the this electric car is the price. But if I could ever afford one, it would be in my driveway for sure.

http://www.teslamotors.com/

Bill, on another forum a few Chebbie Camaro guys have seen this "new" Camaro and say it's an over priced piece of crap. Dealers are marking up it's price by $20,000 in some instances. No wonder GM is going under. Same for Chrysler and Ford ding the same for some of their cars.

[cheezyflier]

when i came to canada i gave away an 87 toyota tercel that had almost 200k on the clock. it ran like a sewing machine, and never had a rebuild. i've owned many american cars, and never once have i owned one that i could say that about. frankly, i don't care how well ford makes their cars. i would never drive one if you gave it to me. they support ideas i disagree with big time. i won't support them because of it.

[PRB]

We can thank the unions for the demise of the American car companies. How long did they think this could go on? Pay and benefits until you die? Do that math. Contrary to what governments and union members believe, money really doesn’t grow on trees. It has to be created. In this case by building cars that people buy. If the amount of money you’re spending on pay and benefits keeps increasing at a steady rate over time while the amount of money you take in as profits on car sales is steady – well, how long until the company ceases to exist? For American car companies, the time has, apparently, come.

I have 93,000 miles on my Toyota Tundra and have never had a problem of any sort. I plan to keep it for a whikle longer.

[Lionheart]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]We can thank the unions for the demise of the American car companies. How long did they think this could go on? Pay and benefits until you die? Do that math.

I quite agree. Their days did help people out from rough, abusive situations. But today, people need to make 'reasonable' pay salaries or the companies cannot afford to pay them. Reality check. You cannot pay a guy $50.00 an hour to go around with an oil can, oiling a big chain. Stupid...


I had 2 Chrysler Lazers and one Dodge Daytona, and they ran great! Back in 1988 though. Man I loved those things. I did need to rebuild the turbo's engine, as I spun a bearing, being at idiot to the powerful little 2.2.

......

Mike (Moe), that is horrible about your truck fleet. Isuzu make some brilliant trucks. They just keep running and running. They have (some) aircooled Diesels.

Note that DHL is desolving and selling off their used fleet of trucks. You could probably pick up some there in fine condition, used.

.......



Quote:Originally Posted by Lionheart
... Toyota is running with the ball and making cars that people want, ...

Sorry Bill, Toyota will never make a car that I want ...

Nor none of the rest of them regardless that they are now made in the states by American citizens ...

Snuffy


No worries man. Free country. :d I only like a couple of their cars myself, like the Prius.

At least they make them here, which means Americans have jobs and will have food on their plates and they will not be homeless.

.......................



Yeah, GM screwed up big time with electric car. Now, if this company can make an electric car with up to a 300 mile range and be a sports car too, why in h3ll can't the Not So Big 3 make an affordable electric car for everyone?

GT182


gm had the American electric car market 'in' their pockets, and they would have owned California. But instead, they went to war with California, destroyed all the electric cars, ruined it for public views on them in green cars and electrics, and now they are going out of business while groups like Toyota are so filled with business they need more factories.



Bill

[hey_moe]

Holy chet...you had a car that had 2000000 miles on it....I get rid of ours when they hit 50,000.....sometimes before then.I start to sweat at 450000...lol
when i came to canada i gave away an 87 toyota tercel that had almost 200k on the clock. it ran like a sewing machine, and never had a rebuild. i've owned many american cars, and never once have i owned one that i could say that about. frankly, i don't care how well ford makes their cars. i would never drive one if you gave it to me. they support ideas i disagree with big time. i won't support them because of it.

[Cazzie]

I am going to tell you something Helldiver, I would still own a Ford, if Ford in Detroit would sell the European Ford Focus wagon in the US, in lieu of the generic Mexican Ford Focus sold here in only a two-door and four-door version.

I owned a 2001 Focus Wagon, European model, build in Norfolk, VA at Ford's truck assembly plant. best darn car I ever owned until this teenage girl went out of control and T-boned it at 40 mph or thereabouts; it's hard to tell how fast a car is going when it is coming at you sideways! But I will give testimony to the safety built into a Focus then, it buckled and bent everywhere it needed to save the cockpit. In any other vehicle I have ever owned, I would guarantee you I would have had lower extremity injuries. I did not have so much as a sore foot! Unfortunately the airbag deployment broke my sturnam. But both of my boys escaped completely unscathed.

Show me anybody these days that make a decent C-body station wagon anymore (and I am not speaking of 5-door hatchbacks like my Honda Fit) and I'm a buyer. So is my wife. She is leaning toward a VW Jetta Wagon, for the simple fact that other than Subaru's Forester and Outback, there is not another car maker that makes a decent, small station wagon in the US. Focus has a beautiful wagon in Europe, why don't they bring it back here? I'd be on their buyer's list and so would my wife. The problem with American cars lies in the upper management wanting niche vehicles, copy-cat vehicles for each brand, SUVs, fully equipped pick up trucks (very hard to find a stripped P/U on a dealer's lot these days), and huge gas consuming 4-door sedans in lieu of an average Joe's car.

When Detroit begins making a cost-effective, fuel-efficient vehicle like my Focus Wagon again, I'll be in the market for an American car. As it is, I shall stick with a very thrifty, very utilitarian small Japanese car made in Ohio!

Caz

[cheezyflier]

Holy chet...you had a car that had 2000000 miles on it....I get rid of ours when they hit 50,000.....sometimes before then.I start to sweat at 450000...lol


heck, at 50k they aren't but barely broken in! :icon_lol:
i had that much on my last touring bike by the time i paid it off.

[Wittpilot]

Nor none of the rest of them regardless that they are now made in the states by American citizens ...


Snuffy,
I work in a Honda plant here in Ohio...Honda employs tens of thousands of people here in the midwest, not only the assembly plants, but the suppliers for the parts. With regards to your quote above, I think the average line worker; though bitchy, whiny, annoying, and sometimes honestly down right ignorant, are hard workers, it is the management at such places that the ones that are the idiots. I heard someone the other day say that things were much better, i.e. quality and such, were significantly higher/better when the Japanese were in charge of everything when the plants first opened.....

-witt

[Helldiver]

I've always had a Corporate Car. Either a Mercury Grand Marquis or a Ford Crown Victoria. It was the last of the truly American cars, having a full frame, V-8 power and rear wheel drive. It was the last limosine. I never had a bit of trouble with any of them. They were the standard vehicle for all Police Departments, including the Moscow, Russia Police.
I gave the last one to my son-in-law. He now has better that 250,000 miles on it, commuting between Dover, New Hampshire to Boston. It doesn't burn a bit of oil. But Ford, in it's infinite wisdom, decided not to build them any more.
By the way I got 20 to 24 MPG. Not too bad for all that wonderful protective metal around you.
Now they build things so cheap that you have to resort to airbags and seat belt in hopes that it will save you from your frameless, gutless, automobiles.
I've spent most of my driving life without needing them.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

So many things to comment on...

1) Why isn't a Honda Fit made in Ohio an American made car?

2) Why shouldn't companies that make pension deals not be forced to live up to them? It seems to me that had those companies simply saved the cash to pay for those pensions instead of treating future pension payouts as a bill to be dealt with with future income there would not be a problem. Yes the companies would have had to pay lower dividends and fly Cessna 172s instead of jets but wasn't that the whole idea when they made the deal? Or did they bet on the come - that the money will be there.

Maybe the whole problem is companies always trying to get the cash right here right now instead of putting the cash away to pay a future debt. In too many ways we discount the future in order to get the cash right now - it is easy one of the biggest problems on earth.

You can blame Unions but I believe there are two sides to labor/management negotiations and most likely the Unions were more honest in that they were aggressively trying to protect their future while companies used the "put off" of the pension problem to the future as a way to sidestep the consequences of the really bad deals they made. That said didn't they make the deals?

3) Who the hey is government to have a holier than thou attitude? Didn't government starting back in the 80's want to deregulate everything based on ethics and honourable competition and the market as the perfect mechanism for saving mankind? Couldn't government have required pension protection? I look at it this way - should the company who made the deal pay or should the taxpayer when the social costs start to roll in (welfare, food stamps, etc)?

4) Closing down all those dealerships thus basically downsizing the companies will have ripple effects beyond direct employment: parts makers, suppliers, stores, the local stores who depend on their business, sponsorships of community activities, hassles with respect to warranty work (drive a 100 miles not 5 mins) and on it goes. What are all these people as well as the others gonna do when unemployment runs out? Does anybody actually believe that entrepreneurship and innovation is gonna work for 100s of thousands of unemployed in a world dominated by mega-corps? If so I've got a deal for you - cash small bills please. Just how well thought out is all this by government?

5) Ford really did have a better idea. Henry believed in an inexpensive car that everyone could afford - Is this basic philosophy alive and well in car manufacturing today? Henry Ford believed in paying his workers well and in fact lost in court when he wanted to give employees a raise while stockholders said no the money is ours not the employees - it's called fiduciary responsibility. Henry was a good man. He understood what almost nobody does anymore - labor is first and foremost people - not just a resource.

6) Seems there was more to comment on but this'll do for now.

-Ed-

PS One last comment. To me the real failure here is not business and not unions but government. It is government's responsibility to grow a backbone instead of a wishbone and make the rules so that we all (now the whole world with globalization) can play nice in the sandbox we call earth. The job is even bigger now than it was in the past - can government measure up?

[Henry]

I have had 7 Chrysler's in the past 12 years
that includes Family members also
1 jeep, 1 dodge neon made it to 100,000:kilroy:
1 Plymouth Breeze daughter ran a stop sign,:pop4:
4 Seabring convertibles 2 new 2 used

i love them
I looked at toyota convertibles
i still prefer Chrysler's
the latest one i have is underpowered
and the roof goes in the trunk
so no space whet the top is down
if you open the door while the top is in operation
The radio quits
but i get 30 mpg on the hwy
H

[Roger]

The British car industry was killed off in the 80s and it seems like the US indigenous car industry is dying off in this recession.
A jump forward was required to leap-frog all the quality and longevity offered by the Japanese but the UK car industry was so backward that nothing could save it. However in the US, GM had researched and produced some incredible specs for electric cars...wow...and then junked them all.
Whoever, at GM ordered that should be the first up against the wall, come the revolution of Common Sense.

[David_L6]

No problems with Chevys here......

1995 Suburban: 3 1/2 years; 50,000 miles. No problems to speak of.

1999 Silverado: 9 1/2 years; 165,000 miles. No problems to speak of.
My son is still driving it. Now has ~180,000 miles on it.

2008 Silverado: 1 year; ~16,000 miles. No problems so far.....

[euroastar350]

I absolutely love my 2000 KIA Sephia:engel016:

[CrashnBurns]

Follow the money. Toyota trucks may be built in Texas, but the $$ goes home to Japan, therefore, they are Japanese trucks. GM trucks may be built in Mexico, but the money comes here. Ergo, they are American trucks. As are the trucks built in Pontiac, Flint, Fort Wayne, Arlington, and until recently, Janesville, Moraine and Oshawa, Ontario. It doesn't matter where they are assembled, the money comes here.

Would I prefer that they were all assembled in the US? Of course. Not going to happen, though, so we are forced to live with what we have. The money that comes back to the US pays the 40,000 or so people that design the next round of vehicles for GM.

Toyota is not some group of mythical supermen, take a look at their 1st quarter performance! Everyone is taking it in the shorts.

Glad some here liked the SSR, we sold everyone we made. But they were what they were. Not a work truck, a cruiser. They weren't made for hauling cement blocks ... golf clubs, maybe.

Glad as well that the Acadia seems to be a hit. Can't seem to make enought of that line of vehicles. While other GM plants are taking time off, they (Lansing, MI) are working OT!

The Volt looks to be a major change to the auto industry as well. I can't wait to see the first one come down the line (Hamtramck, MI).

Crash

[BurningBeard]

I'm the car companies worst nightmare, I'm driving a 1966 Ford half ton. My dad bought it when it had 7 miles on the clock. In 43 years it has had the transmission replace once, 1 rear end, and on a whim we replaced the engine (20 years ago). My other truck is a '77 Ford half ton, (1 transmission and one engine replacement). By the way I have a '60 bugeye in the garage, and my wife drive a late model Cadillac CTS.

Beard

[simkid22]

A lot of the cars I would buy (given I had the money :icon_lol:) that would say Ford or GM aren't even sold in the states. Ford dropped the Focus hatch and wagon for the sedan and coupe and the RS and ST isn't even sold in the states. The main GMs I like are badged Holden Vauxhall or Opel. They seem to be doing to right, or at least better over seas, why does Detroit not think it will work here?

[Willy]

I've always done very well with GM pickups. My last one was a 1997 Cheyenne pickup that I traded in a couple of months ago with 150,000 on it (pic was taken the day it rolled over 150K). Driving a '05 GMC Sierra now and love it.

Speaking of the new dealer's nightmare... last new vehicle I bought was a '89 GMC S-15 Jimmy. I prefer to buy late model used now. They don't lose as much value when you drive 'em off the lot as a new one does.

[crashaz]

My brother's Nissan van has been in the shop 5 times in the last 6 months.. and has had to wait weeks for parts to arrive from the Land of the Rising Sun.

Had a 70 GMC pickup as my first vehicle... it had over 300 K miles on it... needed a valve job bad... but that sucker was stoubt! Rebuilt that 350, bored .040 over ... raced in it.

A personal choice for me... I buy American cars. I own a Chevy Tahoe... Texas truck built here in Arlington.

Want to get that car from Bowling Green Ky....wonder how they manage to keep C series car fast, sleek and with MPG?!

[Brian_Gladden]

The only import car I've ever owned was an old late 80 vintage Volvo Station wagon. I'd probably still be driving it if it hadn't rusted out.

Keep in mind that I've never owned a new car in my life. Most I've ever spent on a vehicle is $5,000.

Other than that, I've owned 3 Chrysler products in my life, a 77 Volare, a 90 Dakota and an 84 Horizon. Only one I'd ever want back is the Volare. Horizon was a $200 beater I bought for a winter car that blew it's transmission two weeks after I bought it and the Dakota was a money pit. Paid $5,000 for it and put over $2,500 worth of repairs into it in two and a half years (Brakes every 3,000 miles and one blown up manual transmission)

Had good luck with my various GM's (mid 80's-early 90's A bodies, Celebrity, Olds Cutlass) My Celebrity probably saved my life due to it's good construction. (I got hit in the drivers door by a Jeep Grand Cherokee doing 60 mph)

That said. I have been a mostly Ford guy since My early 20's. I've owned a succession of Ranger pickups (Four) Two Thunderbirds, three Taurus/Sables, A 71 LTD a 77 Ranchero, a Windstar, A Tempo and currently, a Crown Victoria.

All but one of the Taurus' (An SHO, special case) and the Ranchero (Wrecked) made in excess of 150,000 miles and in the case of my Sable and my Windstar, broke 200,000.

Last I heard from the guy who bought it from the dealer after I traded it, my 86 T-Bird made over 400,000 miles on it's second engine and transmission. Had 90,000 when I traded it for the Dakota... I was stupid.

All cars break down. Especially when you buy used like I do. I was a Ford parts guy for nearly 8 years so I know what to look for. I tend to stick to my Blue Ovals.

If I won the lottery this week, there'd be a brand new F-250 in the front yard right next to my new Mustang GT.


Too bad GM closed Pontiac. I was looking forward to seeing one of those re-badged Holden Ute's.

Only import you could get me into would be a European car, most likely a VW or another Volvo. I'd take a Land Rover Defender 90 too.


Brian

[Dangerousdave26]

HD ........ they couldn't 'Top' a bottom of the range KIA!
'Ford' and 'Quality' are two words that never appear in the same sentence.
:173go1:

Wombat I am going to possibley rain on your parade but back in 1998 / 1999 I worked for a Ford Dealer and at that time Ford owned 40% of KIA. They provided alot of the know how to build the KIA line.

HD RGR on the Mercury Grand Marquis. I had the LS model from 1990 until 2003 and put 187,000 miles on it with no trouble. I then rebuilt the engine and transmission and drove it for another 75,000 miles before the rest of it started to fall apart...

Slowly.

Find me another Marquis in that vintage with less than 50,000 miles and I will buy it in a heart beat.

[redriver6]

'new' member of the family....1989 F150....with about 136K miles..
http://www.boomspeed.com/redriver6/f150.jpg

[Marvin Carter]

All GM has to do to get back in the black is start making the 57 chevy belair two door hard top again, best car ever made, and just plane cool looking.hehe!!!
Marvin Carter

[Naismith]

I noticed on TV yesterday and today, a plethora of car advertising, all except Honda were offering 0% financing amongst other enticements. Who were these companies? Toyota, Suzuki, Kia, Nissan. Honda were advertising at 0.9%. Where was GM & Chrysler ..... nothing, nil, nada. They have to be in the marketplace in order to compete. Ford, oooooooh Mama! 0% on selected models (read the ugly ones that no self respecting person would allow themselves to be seen in anyhoo).

[Lionheart]

I noticed on TV yesterday and today, a plethora of car advertising, all except Honda were offering 0% financing amongst other enticements. Who were these companies? Toyota, Suzuki, Kia, Nissan. Honda were advertising at 0.9%. Where was GM & Chrysler ..... nothing, nil, nada. They have to be in the marketplace in order to compete. Ford, oooooooh Mama! 0% on selected models (read the ugly ones that no self respecting person would allow themselves to be seen in anyhoo).



Actually, I saw several Chrysler commercials for the first time in ages yesterday.

Couldnt believe it.

Something about how they are about to reveal the new models they have been working hard on secretly.


Should be good....


Bill

[Willy]

I've always had a Corporate Car. Either a Mercury Grand Marquis or a Ford Crown Victoria. It was the last of the truly American cars, having a full frame, V-8 power and rear wheel drive. It was the last limosine. I never had a bit of trouble with any of them. They were the standard vehicle for all Police Departments, including the Moscow, Russia Police.
I gave the last one to my son-in-law. He now has better that 250,000 miles on it, commuting between Dover, New Hampshire to Boston. It doesn't burn a bit of oil. But Ford, in it's infinite wisdom, decided not to build them any more.
By the way I got 20 to 24 MPG. Not too bad for all that wonderful protective metal around you.
Now they build things so cheap that you have to resort to airbags and seat belt in hopes that it will save you from your frameless, gutless, automobiles.
I've spent most of my driving life without needing them.

HD, there is still an American V-8 powered, rear wheel drive, full sized car. The Pontiac G8.

[Brian_Gladden]

I think the G8 Is a reworked Aussie Holden. And GM is shutting down Pontiac...

From Wikipedia


The Pontiac G8 is a rear-wheel drive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear-wheel_drive) sedan produced by General Motors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors) (Holden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden)) released for the 2008 model year (2009 in Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada)). The G8 takes the place in the Pontiac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac) lineup of both the Pontiac Bonneville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Bonneville), which ceased production after the 2005 model year, and the Pontiac Grand Prix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Grand_Prix), which ceased production after the 2008 model year. The G8 is Pontiac's first full-size car (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-size_car) since the Pontiac Bonneville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Bonneville) and the 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_GTO#Revival). The G8 is a captive import (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_import) of the Australian Holden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden) VE Commodore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VE_Commodore).


Brian

[Lionheart]

I think the G8 Is a reworked Aussie Holden. And GM is shutting down Pontiac...

From Wikipedia




Brian


Thats wild! I never knew that. My neighbors have a G8 and it is awesome looking. I never knew it was made in the Out Back!

:d



Bill

[Willy]

Ok, my bad. It's not really a Pontiac then.

[Helldiver]

Willy - Plus it doesn't have a frame

[Willy]

I tend to stick with full size pickups, they all have frames. My current GMC with the 4 door cab and all the bells and whistles reminds me of a big luxury car in comfort and ride. And I can pull a horse trailer with it too.

[wombat666]

Thats wild! I never knew that. My neighbors have a G8 and it is awesome looking. I never knew it was made in the Out Back!
:d
Bill

I can't understand why both the Commodore (G8) and the Monaro (GTO) had to be hit with the Ugly Stick for the US market!!!
The originals were very clean and neat.

[wombat666]

Willy - Plus it doesn't have a frame

Thankfully no.......:173go1:

[Lionheart]

Frames are a must for off road vehicles and vehicles that will go through hurrendous duties like towing tons of weight, rough terrain, etc.

A regular car though can have a very well done unibody (if engineered right) that will last ages without needing a traditional ladder frame. Convertibles are the exception, but usually conversion centers that cut the tops will weld in frame reinforments on the chassis, which is why convertables are always heavier then topped cars.

:d

Now race cars are different. Some can make unibodies stronger then a ladder (like some formula one cars have), while cars like the Viper with tremendous torque and weight need a giant, 'truck like' ladder frame as its backbone. (Man, what a Viper can do still freaks me out. On the track, it did what you told it, and it would beat me up!!! lol.. ).



Bill

[CrashnBurns]

Of course the G8 is a Pontiac!

Where it's built has NOTHING to do with what it is. Yes, it's built at Holden, off the Zeta platform. It's not a Holden, it's a completely different vehicle built off a shared platform. No one would say a KC-135 is the same as an AWACS or an E-8. They are different a/c built off a common platform. And they have FAR more in common than the Holden and the G8.

It's a Pontiac, and a great one at that!

Crash

[Brian_Gladden]

I'm not bashing the Holden... If there was a way to Migrate the steering wheel to the other side, I'd take a Commodore Ute or Wagon in a heartbeat... Same for the Aussie Ford Falcon's...

Brian

[CrashnBurns]

Didn't take it that way, Brian. It's just that the days of having Buick plants building Buicks and Pontiac plants building Pontiacs is LONG gone. I think there is only one, single model assembly plant left. Ironically enough, it's the former Saturn plant in Spring Hill. They are building only the Chevrolet Traverse.

Sharing platforms is the only economical way to build some vehicles. The Chev Traverse, Build Enclave, Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia all share the same platform. But they are different vehicles. The days of "badge engineering" are gone as well (thank God!)

Crash

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

With a college degree and a nice new job in hand, I'm saving up to be in the market for a new car (just a couple months, now!). I fully intend to buy a new Honda Civic coupe when I am ready, because in my position it's simply the best out there. My #2 choice would have been a Ford Focus, except that A) the coupe the offer looks downright odd, not at all like the sleek, sexy Civics which seem to easily go from a coupe to a sedan without looking top-heavy and ungainly, B) as previously mentioned, that American car company only offers its really sporty Focus in Europe for reasons beyond me, and C) the common grille thing looks ugly to my eyes. I used to drive my grandfather's 2001 Focus after he passed away, and they had a nice sleek look to them and the grille. Now they all (Focus, Taurus, Fusion) look like you're driving down the road with Venetian shutters strapped to the front bumper! I don't like it one bit. The quality and reliability of the Focus has improved in the last few years, being competitive with the Civic, but that's not enough when Honda can have all that and look good doing it!

I now drive a '96 Saturn SL. I love that car (except for the rubber fuel line which squirrels have chewed through twice in the last 10 months). However, despite the fact that I think Saturn is one of the few parts of GM actually worth saving (seriously, how many options for big trucks and SUVs do you need from one bankrupt company putting me in deb for the rest of my life?), they've made their mistakes, too. The Ion line that replaced the SL/SL2 was discontinued, and replaced with the European Astra hatchback. Not being one to like hatchbacks anymore than I like big sedans, SUVs or sports cars I can't afford (which is the extent of Saturn's other options), even good old Saturn is out of the picture - for me, and by the end of the year for everyone else, too.

I'm going with Honda. They make what I want and they make it very well, so I'll be giving them my money, because "Honda-San" has earned it and Mr. Detroit has not. I see no reason to pay a subsidy to American car companies, their management, and the UAW as a reward for failing to deliver. That doesn't make me uncaring for American manufacturing jobs. I work in the aerospace industry for an American-owned company making aircraft here in america with American labor, and I'm proud of that. But Boeing delivers, and for the most part these American car companies don't. That makes all the difference.

I do get the impression, though, that i should get that new car as soon as possible. Given the influence of the auto unions in the current administration, I don't see protectionist measures designed to punish me for exercising freedom of choice in what I consume being all that far off, which I want no part of. When that happens, things will tank badly, and i'd like to have some new wheels before then.