'Sim Flight Dynamics: "The Real Deal"...'

[Panther_99FS]

At the my base's airshow today, myself & RedRiver6 witnessed this aircraft --> http://www.gregpoe.com/gallery/index.html (http://www.gregpoe.com/gallery/index.html) hang on his prop while barely moving around at just above 0kias airspeed for 45 seconds (timed on my watch).

Any FSX/FS2004 aerobatic aircraft able to do this :ques:

[hews500d]

I dunno, but I watched the broadcast from Barkesdale on the internet yesterday, great show, it amazes me what these guys can do nowadays.

Darrell

[CodyValkyrie]

You can come close, but I have never experienced an aircraft in FS that can do that.

[Wozza]

At the my base's airshow today, myself & RedRiver6 witnessed this aircraft --> http://www.gregpoe.com/gallery/index.html (http://www.gregpoe.com/gallery/index.html) hang on his prop while barely moving around at just above 0kias airspeed for 45 seconds (timed on my watch).

Any FSX/FS2004 aerobatic aircraft able to do this :ques:
Hi
With an aircraft cfg/airfile if you go under 5knt in flight configuration it all goes pair shaped :)
That said Rob (rcbarend (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/member.php?u=2834)) might be able to work his magic as he has done a number of hover gauges for aircraft.I still havnt found a way or aircraft that will do a sustained knife edge in fs.
Wozza

[Panther_99FS]

Hey Wozza, I don't think the airspeed was as slow as 5kias but I don't think it was above 15kias either...

It was weird because me & RR6 were watching him - then we noticed he'd been hanging on his prop for a long time...I didn't start timing on my watch until after he started for some time....:kilroy:

[Panther_99FS]

Hi
I still havnt found a way or aircraft that will do a sustained knife edge in fs.
Wozza

I'm glad you pointed this out as a designer 'cause I've tried this numerous times & couldn't do it....:bump:

[Javis]

I'm glad you pointed this out as a designer 'cause I've tried this numerous times & couldn't do it....:bump:

Still no knife edge in FS,no ( ashame really, isn't it..:a1451: )
If you want true knife edge get Flight Unlimited ( first edition ) Best Aerobatic sim ever if you ask me. Tremendous fun !

Still got my copy but i doubt it'll run on a modern system... Talking about it i might just give it a try....

'Only' a model but... nice knife edge too : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuibWPvP09s

Cheers,
Jan

[CodyValkyrie]

Actually, I don't know how those guys at Icarus did it, but you CAN knife edge their Pitts.

[Bjoern]

If you want true knife edge get Flight Unlimited ( first edition ) Best Aerobatic sim ever if you ask me. Tremendous fun !

Flight Unlimited?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43JF46F-yZs

A friend of mine made this and dedicated it to me, since I'm about the only flight sim nut in my age group in this town.:d

[Panther_99FS]

If memory serves correct...
The RealAir folks got their start in Flight Unlimited...

[Lateral-G]

At the my base's airshow today, myself & RedRiver6 witnessed this aircraft --> http://www.gregpoe.com/gallery/index.html (http://www.gregpoe.com/gallery/index.html) hang on his prop while barely moving around at just above 0kias airspeed for 45 seconds (timed on my watch).

Any FSX/FS2004 aerobatic aircraft able to do this :ques:

FS9/FSX's flight engine isn't sophisticated enough to do this. You need to use and RC flightsim to get that. RealFlight/G4 and several other RC flightsims can emulate 3D flying quite well.

-G-

[Panther_99FS]

Thanks for the replies folks! - A most interesting finding about flight dynamics in FS...:wavey:

[Guruswarmyoz]

Hi
With an aircraft cfg/airfile if you go under 5knt in flight configuration it all goes pair shaped :)
That said Rob (rcbarend (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/member.php?u=2834)) might be able to work his magic as he has done a number of hover gauges for aircraft.I still havnt found a way or aircraft that will do a sustained knife edge in fs.
Wozza
I know of one that does.......:icon_lol:
Mate my "old" FS9 CAP20L model does do sustained knife edge flying, took me ages to get it to do that with a heap of airfile tweaking.
It works without mod in FSX & the flight dynamics are the same as FS9.
It's a simple model, i built it on the KISS principle at the time & i wish one had done a bit better job with the VC & the pilot model. It's here in the file library if ya wanna try it, if ya wanna update the model & others i've done a loing time ago pm me mate (I still have all the source files but no longer have the time or interest to do modelling).

[djscoo]

ri1QScDdOZ8

I couldn't resist...:kilroy:

[warchild]

O,M,F,G,... That has got to be the most skilled, most amazing and unbelievable landing i have ever seen ( and that guy has GOT to either be the son of god or the LUCKIEST SOB on the face of the earth).. Thank you so very very much for sharing that..
Pam

[warchild]

Oh yeahh.. forgot about knife edges after that.. Try Iris's PC-9.. One of the problems we had with it was getting it to NOT lose altitude during a knife edge. I held one for over 40 minutes once..

[djscoo]

O,M,F,G,... That has got to be the most skilled, most amazing and unbelievable landing i have ever seen ( and that guy has GOT to either be the son of god or the LUCKIEST SOB on the face of the earth).. Thank you so very very much for sharing that..
Pam
Either you are a good actor or I feel bad for posting that...which one?

[warchild]

Ummmm.. thats why i became an artist?? I'm terrible at acting..

[Wozza]

I know of one that does.......:icon_lol:
Mate my "old" FS9 CAP20L model does do sustained knife edge flying, took me ages to get it to do that with a heap of airfile tweaking.
It works without mod in FSX & the flight dynamics are the same as FS9.
It's a simple model, i built it on the KISS principle at the time & i wish one had done a bit better job with the VC & the pilot model. It's here in the file library if ya wanna try it, if ya wanna update the model & others i've done a loing time ago pm me mate (I still have all the source files but no longer have the time or interest to do modelling).
Hi Mate
Hmmm must be my setup I cant even get the cap to hold for more than a few seconds....You should get back into the designing :D
on that note how far you get with the winjeel? come on ya just know ya wanna finish it ;)
Cheers
Wozza

[tigisfat]

I still havnt found a way or aircraft that will do a sustained knife edge in fs.
Wozza

The Alphasim F-105 does it beautifully.

[tigisfat]

Ummmm.. thats why i became an artist?? I'm terrible at acting..

Warchild, you've been had. He posted that video as a joke. It's been posted here at SO many times. Watch it again, it's obviously a fake.

[Wozza]

Hey Wozza, I don't think the airspeed was as slow as 5kias but I don't think it was above 15kias either...

It was weird because me & RR6 were watching him - then we noticed he'd been hanging on his prop for a long time...I didn't start timing on my watch until after he started for some time....:kilroy:
Hi Panther
I find it funny that Msoft who has a Extra as a default didnt find someway of at least getting the basic maneuvers that this type of aircraft can do.Im not fde savy enough to work out why it wont work,but it appears the thrust isnt really chaning with prop direction
Wozza

[Skyferret]

Still no knife edge in FS,no ( ashame really, isn't it..:a1451: )
If you want true knife edge get Flight Unlimited ( first edition ) Best Aerobatic sim ever if you ask me. Tremendous fun !

Still got my copy but i doubt it'll run on a modern system... Talking about it i might just give it a try....

'Only' a model but... nice knife edge too : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuibWPvP09s

Cheers,
Jan

After reading this, I got this urge to brush the dust of my copy of Flight Unlimited. I kinda figured there would be some hang-ups during install seeing it's such an old game (95). I'm running XP Home SP3, and, well I'll be darned...went off without a hitch. The install took a matter of seconds (back then, it was like, finish the rest of your coffee and wait with your 486).

Those old games kinda bring back old memories.

Cheers.
Sky.

[warchild]

Warchild, you've been had. He posted that video as a joke. It's been posted here at SO many times. Watch it again, it's obviously a fake.

Ya knowww.. I had a bad feeling about that.. Oh well, no harm done. At least it was only my eyes letting me down, and they've got a good excuse ::lol::..

[djscoo]

Ya knowww.. I had a bad feeling about that.. Oh well, no harm done. At least it was only my eyes letting me down, and they've got a good excuse ::lol::..No harm intended... I guess that video is officially a SOH inside joke now.:wavey:

[Bjoern]

No harm intended... I guess that video is officially a SOH inside joke now.:wavey:

Yep. And it's quite fascinating that there's always at least one person honoring the "flying skills of that amazing pilot". ;) :d

[warchild]

Yep. And it's quite fascinating that there's always at least one person honoring the "flying skills of that amazing pilot". ;) :d

::ROFLMAO::: :isadizzy:

[scoutII]

Panther, your avatar looks like one of the demons from my wife's 90's tv show "CHARMED" - Valdsabar or something?? A higher level demon... - Only reason I know is that she watches the DVD's while I am on the comp.:redface:

[Panther_99FS]

Panther, your avatar looks like one of the demons from my wife's 90's tv show "CHARMED" - Valdsabar or something?? A higher level demon... - Only reason I know is that she watches the DVD's while I am on the comp.:redface:

My avatar is the main villain in the new 'Star Trek' movie :)

[Javis]

After reading this, I got this urge to brush the dust of my copy of Flight Unlimited. I kinda figured there would be some hang-ups during install seeing it's such an old game (95). I'm running XP Home SP3, and, well I'll be darned...went off without a hitch. The install took a matter of seconds (back then, it was like, finish the rest of your coffee and wait with your 486).

Really !?? That's great to know, thanks ! :mixedsmi:

I remember i couldn't get it to run really smooth with the system i had then ( can't even remember what those things were called back then, 486 *does* ring a bell... :) )

I very much still *do* remember FU and the great fun i had trying to tackle all the aerobatic manouvres. I thought 'the instructor' did a very nice job here too !

Can't wait to try my old FU copy as well, thanks again for the HU, Sky ! :applause:

Panther : are you really sure Rob Young had anything to do with FU ??... I don't think i ever heard him talk about that. ....

The flightdynamics in FU are modelled totally different compared to FS. I believe it had something to do with an 'air bubble' around the aircraft that was modelled, rather than the aircraft model itself. ( apart from the visuals that is.. )

Sky : what are your findings sofar 'flying unlimited' again after so many years ?? :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Jan

[Panther_99FS]

Javis,
You're right - it was Fly! II where RealAir got their start...

[Javis]

Okay ! Those were the days, éh ? No trouble now mixing up various flightsims.. :d

cheers,
Jan

[Skyferret]

Sky : what are your findings sofar 'flying unlimited' again after so many years ?? :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Jan[/QUOTE]

Jan: Reminds me of sitting in front of my old compy back in the late 90's for hours on end. The old system I had was a Compaq Presario 486SX 150 MHz with 22 Megs of ram (yes, 22) with a reserve of 1.5 Megs for video. It was a desk top shaped something like a VCR. A pretty much "everything on one board."

As for how it looks. I thought it would be really blocky and crude stretched over a 22" monitor (as compared to a 15"), but it wasn't all that bad. You just have to sit back a bit. The terrain distance shading or hazing in this game is done quite well. In my opinion, it was way ahead of its time. It's hard to say which was better, FU(95) or FS95. FS95 had the ability to plot and fly a course using NDB and VOR plus it had ILS. FU did not have this. FU had the competition courses to test your aerobatic skill whereas FS95 did not. FU had that neet little recoder and playback feature. I can't remember if FS95 Had that "record a flight" option back then. FU was more of a fun way to test your skills whereas FS95 was more methodical and a relaxed way of testing your skills.

During the install, it gave a default destination of "C:/Flight Unlimited." I figured I would put it in "Program Folders." The darn thing put it there but it created a whole bunch of its folders spread out in the Program Folder. Oh well.

As for the knife edge maneuver previously discussed, I had trouble keeping my altitude. Might depend on the type of plane chosen. I'll keep trying.

Sky.

[Javis]

Thanks Sky ! Envy you!

Seems no way i can get FU to run....:banghead:

Default installs into C:\Flight. Just a few files and folders. When i run 'Flight.bat' the small dos window appears, then the screen goes black, and i'm returned to desktop. That's it. Also tried 'video.bat' with no result either.( with and without using the univbe driver ) Tried 'no joystick' and 'no sound' from the install menu, also to no avail.

Looks like i'll have to forget about FU, knife edge, and all that.....Dang! Actually i'm not really surprised.... amazing that you can run ol' FU without a problem !

Send my regards to that aerobatics instructor, will you...:d

Would be great if some dev got wise and offered us a modern version of FU, wouldn't it !

Have fun with the 8 point rolls, Cuban 8's, Hammerheads, Split S's, Immelmans, and Knife Edges, Sky ! Like i said, envy you ! :)

Cheers,
Jan

[Wozza]

Thanks Sky ! Envy you!

Seems no way i can get FU to run....:banghead:

Default installs into C:\Flight. Just a few files and folders. When i run 'Flight.bat' the small dos window appears, then the screen goes black, and i'm returned to desktop. That's it. Also tried 'video.bat' with no result either.( with and without using the univbe driver ) Tried 'no joystick' and 'no sound' from the install menu, also to no avail.

Looks like i'll have to forget about FU, knife edge, and all that.....Dang! Actually i'm not really surprised.... amazing that you can run ol' FU without a problem !

Send my regards to that aerobatics instructor, will you...:d

Would be great if some dev got wise and offered us a modern version of FU, wouldn't it !

Have fun with the 8 point rolls, Cuban 8's, Hammerheads, Split S's, Immelmans, and Knife Edges, Sky ! Like i said, envy you ! :)

Cheers,
Jan
Hi Mate
Ya running XP? if so open the bat file in notpad and see what exe its calling up,find the exe and right click on it then properties,then compatibility tab check the boxs you think it requires and try again
Ive been running a lot of older software of late and this works 75% of the time
Cheers
Wozza

[fliger747]

Very few aircraft are capable of sustained knife edge flight. Required is a fuselage designed as a sideways lifting body, an extreme thrust to lift ratio, and rather hight rudder authority. Usually what appears to be a sustained knife edge flight bleeds energy which will limit the time in position.

I experimented a bit with this when working on the D-ware Corsair flight dynamics a couple of years ago. Not a modern aerobatic aircraft by any means, but by adjusting the weathervane stability some knife edge flight capability was possible.

A lot of high AOA and unusual flight charcteristc replication is possible in FS. Just not as easy or obvious in it's achievement as one might like.

Cheers: T.

[Skyferret]

Jan; I'm running XP SP3. Are you running Vista? If so, that could be the problem. I never worked with Vista, but from what I've been hearing, It's kinda snippety-pickin' snooty towards the old games.

What Wozza said about compatibility mode might work. I have found that I can only run the game at 640 X 480 res. When I try to set it at 1024 X 768, then resume, the game goes quitza crash gonzo on me. I then tried the compatibility thing on the games EXE file (95 &98 mode) and the game did not work at all. When I mentioned how compatibility mode might work, there is a last resort. Create an image of the disk on to your HD. Find the Setup.exe file and tweak that one (you can't change what's on the CD but you can change what's on the HD). Change to run in 98 or perhaps 95 mode as well as low res. mode and then install from there. Try Wozza's advice first (less time consuming) then try the afformentioned. If all else fails, wait untill the final release of Win7, or go into closet and dig out that Win98 machine that runs at 233 MHz. You know, the one with the 2.1 Gig HD that you thought you would never fill up.

Perhaps this calls for a sticky thread. We could call it "Closet Cronicles" or "Dust-offs" or maybe "Primordial Software." All the advice shared about pounding the nuts and bolt of those oldies into your new system. After all, we do like to relive those times long forgotten. Back then you were the envy of your friends when you had a Nvidia GeForce 2 with 32 Megs.

One thing that just might work. Reduce your system's screen res to a lower setting. I do believe the game is "full screnn" only. I have found in the past that with any older low res software, that making the jump from windowed/high res to fullscreen/low res seems to nock everything right off the board.

Sorry for being kinda long winded.
Cheers.
Sky.

P.S. <cite>www.dosmuseum.com/ </cite>:greenbo:

[Javis]

Thanks a lot guys ! Tried every trick in both your books, but alas to no avail...

Yes, i'm running XP SP3 too. Don't like what i read about Vista most of the time...

When i found that Wozza's trick didn't work ( how are ya, mate ? my boomerang still won't come back! :costum: ) i put the whole CD on HD ( only some 360 MB, sjeezzz ), tried all the choices, put my monitor in the lowest res it will go, 800 x 600 ( looks different.. :eek: ) all with the same result : screen goes black for a couple seconds then i'm back at desktop.

Monitor won't go as low as 640 x 480, it's a Dell 24" wide screen, so maybe that's the problem.Coincidently i gave away my old system a few weeks ago, it had a NEC 22" CRT monster which *could* do 640 x 480, too late now...

Anyway, thanks much again for trying to help me, guys. I think it's clear now it's a NOFU for me, would've loved to have a go at it again after so many years but FS9 and FSX will have to do. The're not so bad afterall neither, aren't they... :d

Cheers,
Jan

[Javis]

Very few aircraft are capable of sustained knife edge flight. Required is a fuselage designed as a sideways lifting body, an extreme thrust to lift ratio, and rather hight rudder authority. Usually what appears to be a sustained knife edge flight bleeds energy which will limit the time in position.

That's exactly what i remember to happen with FU when doing a knife edge.

Flyable aerobatic planes featured in FU: Decathlon, Extra 300, Pitts Special and SU-31. Can't remember exactly which of these was 'easiest' to knife edge...

Great fun to try make the best of a knife edge, *that* i remember very vividly! :cool:

You can read a bit about the 'innovative' physics system of FU here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Unlimited

Cheers,
Jan

[Wozza]

When i found that Wozza's trick didn't work ( how are ya, mate ? my boomerang still won't come back! :costum: ) i put the whole CD on HD ( only some 360 MB, sjeezzz ), tried all the choices, put my monitor in the lowest res it will go, 800 x 600 ( looks different.. :eek: ) all with the same result : screen goes black for a couple seconds then i'm back at desktop.


Cheers,
Jan
Hi Mate
Im pretty good,Im heavily into late 70"s early 80"s RC helis at the mo which keep me busy and broke :D

Yep the new fangled monitor will be the cause,maybe pickup,an old crt somewhere(they give em away nowadays ) and hang it as a 2nd monitor

Re the boomerang,the export ones are not suppose to come back :) we keep all the returning ones cant have the good ones falling into the wrong hands lol
Cheers
Wozza

[Panther_99FS]

You can read a bit about the 'innovative' physics system of FU here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Unlimited

Cheers,
Jan

Javis,
Thanks for the VERY INTERESTING read on Flight Unlimited's physics model....It definitely puts into perspective why somethings work in FSX and why somethings don't with Microsoft physics....:kilroy:

[Javis]

Ok, Ed, good to know you found it interesting. :)

From your remark i figure you never tried FU yourself ?

FUII and III were nice as well but much more like FS compared to FU. I always thought it was a brilliant idea to base a flightsim purely on aerobatics. No need for vast scenery areas or truckloads of aircraft. Just concentrate on getting the flight dynamics as close to what an aerobatic aircraft can do. Really miss that today....

Still have a small hope left some developer outthere gets wise and picks up where FU has left. Aerobatic IS the Ultimate way of flying, isn't it ! ( i DO enjoy that now with RC sim RealFlight but i'm stuck to the ground.. :sheep: )

cheers,
Jan

[Panther_99FS]

Hey Javis...
I hate say it - but I haven't tried any of "the others".....:kilroy:

[jmig]

Actually, I don't know how those guys at Icarus did it, but you CAN knife edge their Pitts.

I was thinking the same thing. I am sure I remember flying down the runway hanging on the prop in the Pitts. I will have to go back and try it again.