Some Ju88's

[NachtPiloten]

Exteriors are done and the pits are ready to be mapped.... here is the R1 w/ FuG 212 Ai

[NachtPiloten]

here is the r2 with FuG 220 AI

[NachtPiloten]

C6 with FuG 212 AI

[NachtPiloten]

Not textured but may give you an idea....

[thunder100]

Hi

Looks splendid

Would it be at all possible once you are finished and happy to do an P3D-FSX native-FSX normal-CFS2 output as well ?

In That world we only have a bit elderly Ju-88's and with above base it could be moved to P3D/FSX

Thanks a lot for even thinking about it

Best regards

Roland

[mongoose]

Looking good. Didn't some have 2 radar systems at once? I hope Steve is going to assist WRT his app.

[Shessi]

Looking superb Ted!

Pits especially, very nice detail.

Cheers

Shessi

[sixstrings5859]

Looks Fantastic ! Excited to see these excellently done night fighters ! B.C. beware !Lol ! Regards,Scott

[NachtPiloten]

Yes, the FuG220 at first did lack short range accuracy, so either the FuG212 was fully retained, or one post was kept. The induced drag cost the planes an additional 20 kph, compared to about 20 -30 kph loss with just the Fug220 alone. Add the Flensburg 227 and well the planes might have lost 55-60 kph, which of course will be modeled into the airfiles. An A4 flew at about 290-300 mph, add the aerials and a FuG212 equipped C6 was at best 275-280 mph, FuG 220 R1 which was about the same speed potential so 270-275, add all the posts 260-265, an R2 with just the FuG220 285-290. Now Brown did fly a g1 without aerials and achieved 400 mph, so given the drag of 30 or so kph, could the G1 really fly at 382? well given that the G1 was no ammo, no aerials, and minus a crew member and possibly radar equipment and no mention of fuel, so......maybe in real loadout 360-370 for the G1. Who knows.. right!

We will see what I can find over at ww2aircraft.net or the Luftwaffe archives. May need to take a trip to Udvar-Hazy...oh the labor.

[Mike71]

Yes, the FuG220 at first did lack short range accuracy, so either the FuG212 was fully retained, or one post was kept. The induced drag cost the planes an additional 20 kph, compared to about 20 -30 kph loss with just the Fug220 alone. Add the Flensburg 227 and well the planes might have lost 55-60 kph, which of course will be modeled into the airfiles. An A4 flew at about 290-300 mph, add the aerials and a FuG212 equipped C6 was at best 275-280 mph, FuG 220 R1 which was about the same speed potential so 270-275, add all the posts 260-265, an R2 with just the FuG220 285-290. Now Brown did fly a g1 without aerials and achieved 400 mph, so given the drag of 30 or so kph, could the G1 really fly at 382? well given that the G1 was no ammo, no aerials, and minus a crew member and possibly radar equipment and no mention of fuel, so......maybe in real loadout 360-370 for the G1. Who knows.. right!

We will see what I can find over at ww2aircraft.net or the Luftwaffe archives. May need to take a trip to Udvar-Hazy...oh the labor.
Don't you mean profile (i.e. parasite), vice induced drag? However, the weight of the system would increase induced drag as well -

[NachtPiloten]

Don't you mean profile (i.e. parasite), vice induced drag? However, the weight of the system would increase induced drag as well -

Mike - not an aeronautical engineer type, but what is the difference between parasite and induced drag? I imagine parasite has to do with the features of a plane that interfere with airflow, such as antenna, external loadout (bombs, fuel tanks, etc) but induced drag?

Thanks,

Ted

[Shessi]

Induced drag, is the drag created when an aircraft manoeuvres or climbs ie it disrupts the airflow causing or inducing drag, which obviously slows the ac.......

Ted,
Your previous post about guess-timates of speed loss, I think they're pretty close.

Everybody thinks an ac should do the manufacturers max speed...but in reality they rarely do. Also exceedingly rarely would a pilot get absolute top speed out their ac, not if they wanted to have any fuel or any engines left! I have read about Heinz Rokker, chasing after bomber streams over Germany, and on landing had to have two new engines, as they were completely knackered from holding high speeds.

Also read lots of ORBs from NF Mossie Sqn's, and often they state enemy ac was doing in the region of 150-180mph, others mention about giving up a long chase as they couldn't catch them..G1/G6 88's and He219s possibly?

Cheers

Shessi

[Mike71]

Mike - not an aeronautical engineer type, but what is the difference between parasite and induced drag? I imagine parasite has to do with the features of a plane that interfere with airflow, such as antenna, external loadout (bombs, fuel tanks, etc) but induced drag?

Thanks,

Ted
Total drag is composed of induced and parasite drag.

Parasite drag is caused by the skin friction and cross sectional average area of the head on "flat plate" area, as well as disturbances at intersecting parts, etc.
Profile drag increases with the SQUARE of the velocity, so at higher speeds even a small increase in speed creates a significant increase in parasite drag.

Induced drag is only due to angle of attack. Since weight requires a higher AoA at any particular speed, induced drag varies with weight. It also increases with the SQUARE of the velocity, but typically much less effect than profile drag because in level flight, increased speed results in a lower AoA.

In summary: at low speeds, induced drag (hi AoA) predominates. At cruise and higher speeds, profile drag is the biggest factor.

[NachtPiloten]

Shessi and Mike - thanks!

I think that I might try the following. In the xpd's for weapons there is an entry called drag. If I made a fake loadout say for the aerials and made it a weapon, then fiddled with the drag entry and mass, maybe I could reduce speed this way.....

[MajorMagee]

Why not just make it part of the air file for each specific configuration?

[Mike71]

Shessi and Mike - thanks!

I think that I might try the following. In the xpd's for weapons there is an entry called drag. If I made a fake loadout say for the aerials and made it a weapon, then fiddled with the drag entry and mass, maybe I could reduce speed this way.....That could easily work, BUT: I am not familiar with CFS, but downloading one of the planes I see an aircraft configuration (cfg file), with an entry for

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar = 1.0
parasite_drag_scalar = 1.0


These control the scale factor for the total drag as discussed. Fiddle with the parasite drag scalar only, see how it works

This might provide some idea of what I am talking about:


89025

[Shessi]

Ted,
That's exactly how I would do it in CFS2, CFS3 almost the same. Something like a 1.2 to 1.5 on parasitic drag will take off about 5-10 kph or so.

The cruise lift scalar is not about drag but the pitch of the ac when at cruise/max speed, which also combines with CoG.

Don't be tempted into using - or negative amounts with drag, to gain speed, as this can haves odd and bad effects!

Cheers

Shessi

[NachtPiloten]

Why not just make it part of the air file for each specific configuration?

I just want to try it. I have modeled in previous planes limits to top speed based on some of this data. But since I never have done this before, I just figured why not give it a go. This way you could have a C6 with a top speed of 490 kph, then add enough drag on the aerials as a loadout to reduce top speed by 30-40 kph. I think it would be fun to do this and if then you make the aerials a weapon or pylon (did this for the FW 190 and Bf109 Wide Sau planes over at Reg's Hanger (shameless plug)). If it works cool, if not no harm.

[NachtPiloten]

That could easily work, BUT: I am not familiar with CFS, but downloading one of the planes I see an aircraft configuration (cfg file), with an entry for

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar = 1.0
parasite_drag_scalar = 1.0


These control the scale factor for the total drag as discussed. Fiddle with the parasite drag scalar only, see how it works

This might provide some idea of what I am talking about:


89025

Mike,

Hmm, I could model a C6 or R1/2 (0r any plane for that matter) with top speeds without the aerials. Then go back a fiddle with the parasite drag figure to reduce speed to the limit I want....hmmm sounds straight forward enough.

tsk

[NachtPiloten]

Ted,
That's exactly how I would do it in CFS2, CFS3 almost the same. Something like a 1.2 to 1.5 on parasitic drag will take off about 5-10 kph or so.

The cruise lift scalar is not about drag but the pitch of the ac when at cruise/max speed, which also combines with CoG.

Don't be tempted into using - or negative amounts with drag, to gain speed, as this can haves odd and bad effects!

Cheers

Shessi

Thanks for the starting figures, will make it easier to get the speed I am looking for.

tsk

[Bravo/4]

Looking good Ted, btw I know I've been quiet, but I have made progress on the Whitley pit

[NachtPiloten]

Looking good Ted, btw I know I've been quiet, but I have made progress on the Whitley pit

No worries, John genius takes time! Just about finished with mapping the exterior of the C6 - the oil cooler cowling is a bit messy, but no one is perfect..:dizzy: The Rs will be easy enough just new engine cowl mapping and a few other parts. The vc, have I ever told you how much I hate mapping the vc......:banghead:

[Bravo/4]

:biggrin-new::biggrin-new: It may have been mentioned:biggrin-new::biggrin-new:

[NachtPiloten]

Had a couple of hours this past week to map the planes. Not perfect but when John gets done you'll never know...

[NachtPiloten]

Just about done here too, wil get the R2 done, then to the dreaded cockpits.....

[hairyspin]

So you've done the C6 right and still have the R1 left?? Have I got that clear or am I all muddled again? :monkies:

[NachtPiloten]

The first new post is the C6 and the second the R1, I need to do the R2. Once the R2 is mapped and set up, will tackle the cockpits.



Hey, what video card is the best for this sim? If I remember correctly specular textures are an issue with one type of card. I have a EVGA Nvidia 770 now and I am on the seven year upgrade cycle now, so will start to order the parts to build a new machine. Thing about a intel i9, 32 mb RAM, SSD with 1 terabyte, ASUS board 800 watt PS, Rosewell case. As far as the RAM what could I do for dram and timing etc? I don't play any other game than some flight sims really only CFS3. Suggestions welcome.

Dyakuy

[hairyspin]

Your new machine will run the pants off CFS3, so get whatever RAM suits the motherboard - no need to go for the highest spec hardcore gaming stuff. Nvidia are generally better with flight sims, but I’m out of touch with the latest models. I do know the crypto crowd’s demand has pushed video cards way up in price.

[MajorMagee]

Happily crypto mining looks like it's finally dead, so there should be an adjustment in the GPU market with a surplus sitting in inventory with no artificial demand anymore.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/09/the-end-of-ethereum-mining-could-be-a-bonanza-for-gpu-shoppers/

[NachtPiloten]

Time off is a good thing. Here is the C6 so far. I need to texture a couple of things. fix a few gaps and a little list of goofs. The plane is mostly all textured except for some instruments. Marching along....

[sixstrings5859]

Awesome work ! Can't wait to see John's work combined with it. Love the whole Ju-88 series ! Regards,Scott

[Frosty]

Looking mighty sharp, Ted!! :encouragement:

[demile]

Looks good. Will there be two versions of the c6, meaning solid nosed and nightfighter with antennas?

[mongoose]

I'm pretty sure the main effort is for the solid nose NJ aircraft with antennae,and maybe even working radar to go with sdsbolts A.I. radar app. That's my understanding at least.

[NachtPiloten]

Only nightfighters. Have no intention of making any new A versions or the glass nosed C6. Too much to do and little time to do it in.

[NachtPiloten]

Almost finished with the g1s. There will be two, and early one with six cannon and later one that was most numerous with 4 cannons. This is the four cannon one w/Schräge Musik. Hope the RAF wants to dance a little....

[sixstrings5859]

Oh Yeah ! Very nice work ! Excited for this release ! Cheers,Scott