Airbase help?

[crossram]

Done banging my head on the wall.

New airbase. It's in my install...with one slight problem...the groundplane doesn't load. Looked things over several times.

Any ideas?

[Daiwilletti]

hi Crossram,

I've been modifying a whole swathe of airbases recently. They seem to have three types of files affecting the look of an airbase - texture files (.dds), an .lso file and a .mos file.

In addition, does the airbase facility xml have a section defining the size of the ground plane?. Also runway object files needed but I presume they wouldn't affect the ground plane.

You could try opening the facility file using Richard Eikland's Mission and Facility Editor, where the ground plane will display if you have one. You can find the editor at http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=159

[Pat Pattle]

Hi Ted,

Sounds like either an issue with the. Mos file or the ground plane dimensions are wrong.

Clive

[Pat Pattle]

Hi Ted,

Sounds like either an issue with the. Mos file or the ground plane dimensions are wrong. Does the mos file look OK?

Clive

[Frosty]

... the groundplane doesn't load. ...



If the groundplane isn't visible at all but the facility objects are (buildings, vehicles etc.), it's probably a typo in one of the files that references your groundplane .dds or the .dds is missing from your install. Check if the name of your groundplane matches all the references (.mos file, global layer .csv etc.) and the facility .xml file. Typos are easily made - I know your frustration :friendly_wink:.
If the groundplane is visible but looks weird (blackish, partially visible, tiling etc.) I concur with Clive: there's probably something wrong with your .mos file. The reference to your groundplane .dds might be correct but the other values may not - depending on what you see ingame.

[crossram]

Greatly appeciate it, guys!

Yes, I'll go back through everything, and check again. Besides the files naming, one question, since it's been awhile. Is there a prefered .dds w/alpha type used on groundplanes? (Getting old is for the birds!)

Did another 'test' this morning, after reading all the how-tos, and it still won't load...after completely re-making the groundplane.

[Frosty]

Greatly appeciate it, guys!

Yes, I'll go back through everything, and check again. Besides the files naming, one question, since it's been awhile. Is there a prefered .dds w/alpha type used on groundplanes? (Getting old is for the birds!)

Did another 'test' this morning, after reading all the how-tos, and it still won't load...after completely re-making the groundplane.

IIRC, the stock airfields use the DXT3 format.

I don't think it is necessary to redo your complete groundtexture. The problem is unlikely to be the texture itself. But you can check that fairly quickly by painting a texture a single colour and using that as a groundtexture. As soon as you can get that to show you can paint your airfield on top of it. Another approach would be to copy and rename a stock airfield to your new airfield and start replacing all it's parts (textures, facility file etc.) with yours.

A few years ago I made a flowchart with the requirements for a CFS3 airfield. Maybe it is of some use:

[crossram]

Appreciate that, Frosty!

Yep, texture is DXT3. Groundplane is 4420m x 4420m. All parts are named the same.

Groundplane still won't load. Not just the texture, but the groundplane itself. More testing...argg. :mixed-smiley-027:

I did make an object .xml for the airbase. The runways do load, the only hard surface I get, until I get too far out, the tail wheel sinks, and I get to blow-up.

[Frosty]

... Groundplane still won't load. Not just the texture, but the groundplane itself. ...

I did make an object .xml for the airbase. The runways do load, the only hard surface I get, until I get too far out, the tail wheel sinks, and I get to blow-up.

Hmm, maybe we're getting somewhere!
Groundplane, you say? Do you mean you are creating a 4420m x 4420m plane object in gmax, texture and export that as an ingame object? If so, there's no need for that last step. If you are using gmax to create your airfield, and you do have a textured plane as a base for this airfield in the gmax file, the object itself isn't required in CFS3. If you name and link the plane correctly in your gmax file, the groundplane is exported as a reference string in the .xml.
If you think it helps, you can send me the gmax file with just the groundplane and a single other object (runway, building, vehicle etc.) for me to look over.

[Daiwilletti]

I had airbases appear (all the buildings, etc) without showing the textures, when there was a problem with the .mos file, as Clive mentioned.

[crossram]

Hmm. First, I'm not working with a .mos file. Maybe later. When I made Station 121, no .mos file used.The airbase 'object' .xdp, is like the other airbase .xdps, though I've only added it a few days ago. No textured groundplane, in either case. I've also tried a one color .dds, with no alpha, same results.

Take a look at my entries, to see if you spot anything...

Global_Layer -airbase,Gilze,Rijen,N51*34'20.3997,E4*56'25.8000,0 .0000,15.0353,Gilze-Rijen,gilr142,,,Netherlands,Gilze-Rijen,,,,,,,,no

cutscenes.xml (under correct country)

<airbase_Gilze_Rijen>
<Cutscene FileName="a_pregame_3.xml"/>
</airbase_Gilze_Rijen>

qclocations.

GlobalLayer="CFS3Europe1943"/>
</City>
<City Name="Gilze-Rijen">
<Airbase ID="gilr142" Lat="N51*34'20.3997" Lon="E4*56'25.8000" Terrain="CFS3Europe" GlobalLayer="CFS3Europe1943"/>


Thanks for the offer, Frosty! I'll zip 'em up, and get it to you. Going to be something simple, but what??Appreciate the help guys! (Need all I can get!)

[crossram]

Dang! What happened there. Guess cut/paste isn't liked. Hope you guys can make it out.

Fixed it.

[crossram]

Guess I can't send the .zip, via private message. I'll do it here.

Starting to wonder about the qclocations entry.

[mongoose]

I am interested with what you are dong with that particular fliegerhorst as Ted and I have been working on that and other NJG bases. Joost id the expert who has helped me a lot with Deelen and Venlo in particular. I always bug him!:biggrin-new: PM if you want to discuss more.

[crossram]

Sure thing, Mongoose.

For many years, I have wanted, and planned on Gilze-Rijen and Venlo. I've gathered a bit of info, on both, though not everything I need.
Awhile back, you tried to send me stuff on Venlo, but for some reason, some of it I couldn't open. Anyway, I have enough on Gilze, to get a start. (Tired of the one size fits all airbases...why I made Station 121, still in the works.)

And, I gotta admit, I'm not a fan of the structures of the CFS3 stock airbases. The way they show, isn't anything to brag about. Gilze-Rijen sports camo runways.
I can always show you some of the pieces I've made, for either. In private messages, no attachments??


Update on my personal probs. Groundplane does load, but not the texture. Think my .dds files w/alpha, is wrong. I'm using the .dds converter in PSP, but my settings could be wrong.

[crossram]

Here is a sample...one of the Venlo buildings, I made years ago.

[crossram]

Guess my .dds file ain't cuttin' it. That's probably why it won't load. Took a look in the ImageTool, but not clear on how to convert a .bmp, to .dds.

Dumb old guy!

[mongoose]

Ah! Neat! Just the job!

[swpierce]

I was having issues with that part of the map when I was trying to overlay a runway light facility in a mission file over the Gilze-Rijen airfield. There seemed to be some kind of glitch with Lat/Lon coordinates. Probably my computer, I know. But you may want to try installing your facility at another location just to see if it shows up.

[crossram]

Thanks!

Pretty sure the problem is, the .dds. Maybe not the right format, right converter, or both. I've made plenty of .dds files, but no alpha.

Been way too long, making one with alpha. 0,0,0 (black) is what's in the texture. Probably need a slap on the back of my head, and a simple how-to.

[MajorMagee]

For any Alpha layer remember:

White reveals, and Black conceals.

[crossram]

I was having issues with that part of the map when I was trying to overlay a runway light facility in a mission file over the Gilze-Rijen airfield. There seemed to be some kind of glitch with Lat/Lon coordinates. Probably my computer, I know. But you may want to try installing your facility at another location just to see if it shows up.


My guess on those runway lights, would be to add them into the airbase facility itself.
In my Keroman base, I was looking at adding in Festung Lorient, all the flak units surrounding the area. But, everyone of them are way off the groundplanes. Dumb idea, though it can work. As a work around, I (painfully) made a separate facility for Festung Lorient. Make a mission to Keroman, then, hand-edit the mission, adding in Festung Lorient. You might try something like that. Those missions with the Festung are hot and heavy! And it only has a third of the units that were there.

Yup yup on the black alpha. Still don't show, meaning the groundplane texture. I'll toss in, I have that .dds in the same location, for the other added airbases, and they show fine.

[crossram]

Find anything, Frosty?

I don't think there's any issues in the .dds. Looking like a path problem...the sim can't find the texture. I don't find anything in the files naming.

Is it whiskey time, yet?

[Frosty]

Find anything, Frosty? ...

No, nothing yet - I hope I can find the time tonight. Right now I am occupied with some pressing RL stuff ...

[mongoose]

Guess my .dds file ain't cuttin' it. That's probably why it won't load. Took a look in the ImageTool, but not clear on how to convert a .bmp, to .dds.

Dumb old guy!

Just use paint.net for that, or Gimp for more complicated stuff. I used Gimp for all my layered 'art' work.

[crossram]

No, nothing yet - I hope I can find the time tonight. Right now I am occupied with some pressing RL stuff ...

You take all the time you want. Appreciate you taking a look! btw...the hangar you'll see, I've increased the .dds size, so it looks much better. I'm keeping occupied adding in all the flak, and radar, off a map showing it all.
Have you ever tried placing buildings, or the like, in the facility, but off the groundplane? No matter, I'll see if it will work.

mongoose...I use PSP7, with the added Nvidia dds format (v3.02) plugin. I'm pretty sure the .dds is good, CFS3 just can't find the dang thing. I've also increased the .dds size to 2048 x 2048.

Back to my head-bangin'.

[crossram]

Thanks for the .zips!

Since I can't do it via PM, here's a .zip for you TOW guys.
I've had this stuff for more than 20 years. You can read about what it took, for me to get it. No matter, I'm always willing to share, just like everyone...that's what it's all about.

[mongoose]

Thanks for that. I wouldn't mind your Venlo buildings if completed!:wiggle:

[crossram]

You bet. It's been many years, since I've looked at 'em, so I'll take a look, do what's needed, and export them.

Hope that stuff helps you.

[Frosty]

You take all the time you want. Appreciate you taking a look! btw...the hangar you'll see, I've increased the .dds size, so it looks much better. I'm keeping occupied adding in all the flak, and radar, off a map showing it all.
Have you ever tried placing buildings, or the like, in the facility, but off the groundplane? No matter, I'll see if it will work. ...

Think I got it:
- At first, I couldn't get Gilze-Rijen installed at all which turned out to be the mess Open Office made of the .csv file. After editing the .csv in Notepad I could create a working .gsl.lib :banghead:
- Then I ran into the same problem you had: no groundtexture :banghead:
- After creating a simple .mos file, your groundtexture showed up fine :encouragement:.

So, even though I thought it would be possible to create an airfield without a .mos file, it turns out it apparently isn't. Maybe that's something I had forgotten, dunno. But adding one seems to do the trick... Hope it works for you too!

Oh, and adding objects outside the groundplane/texture should work fine (remember not all facilities have a groundtexture). It depends on what the autogen scenery places there. You'll have to experiment a little, I guess, to see if it works for your specific situation.

[crossram]

Come to think about it, I could have ran into the same thing, on AAF_station_121. Remember noticing a simple .mos file for it.

I would have never thought about that (maybe). I sure do appreciate it!!

Now, I'm gonna make a NOTE on that, so I can keep my act together. :dizzy:

[crossram]

Thanks for that. I wouldn't mind your Venlo buildings if completed!:wiggle:


Only that tower, for now. Just uploaded it, under CFS3/other/buildings. If it gets approved. Enjoy!

[crossram]

What would you do?

Airbase groundplane is on top of a railroad. Move the airbase?

[mongoose]

If the airbase is in the correct historical location? I would prefer not but I suppose it would depend where the track ran as some Fliegerhorsten did have railway lines running to them; something I am still having trouble adding!

[Frosty]

What would you do?

Airbase groundplane is on top of a railroad. Move the airbase?

If the railroad is smack in the middle of your airfield (crossing any runways, taxiways etc.), I would move the airfield.
If the railroad is close to the airfield's boundaries, I would try adding a railroad spline to the facility.

IIRC there was a railroad nearby with a branch to the fliegerhorst. Ask James, he knows Venlo only too well! :biggrin-new:
BTW, that model of the controltower is really good!! :encouragement:.

[Edit: James beat me to it]

[crossram]

If the railroad is smack in the middle of your airfield (crossing any runways, taxiways etc.), I would move the airfield.
If the railroad is close to the airfield's boundaries, I would try adding a railroad spline to the facility.

IIRC there was a railroad nearby with a branch to the fliegerhorst. Ask James, he knows Venlo only too well! :biggrin-new:
BTW, that model of the controltower is really good!! :encouragement:.

[Edit: James beat me to it]

Thanks for the kind words! (You wouldn't believe how I sized it!) Something about 80" door height. Any port in the storm, eh.

The rail track kinda cuts through the groundplane, which it fairly good size. This is Gilze-Rijen...maps don't show any tracks.
I might be able to get by, since I need to rotate the field a little (via the global layer). Yeah, the field is at the right co-ords, for what that's worth, in CFS3 land. Just bothers me, seeing that dead-end two places at the groundplane.

Gilze-Rijen also sported alot of camo netted a/c enclosures. Placing them now.

Hey, mongoose! Any chance I can tinker with some of your searchlight files? (For a little project I'm working on...60cm)

[mongoose]

You are welcome to tinker away!:wiggle:

[Frosty]

... This is Gilze-Rijen...maps don't show any tracks. ...

Ah, sorry - got Venlo and Gilze-Rijen mixed up :banghead:. It must have been the tower model (that's definitely Venlo).

Anyway, nowadays there is a railroad linking the cities of Breda and Tilburg. Gilze-Rijen lies between those two. I don't know if the railroad was already there in the war years or what info MS used when constructing the global scenery layer. I know this doesn't solve your problem but just so you know the railway itself could be historical (but maybe not its location...).

[crossram]

Thanks, mongoose! :encouragement:

Frosty. Yeah, I had Venlo in the works, years ago, alot of research, most from 'over there' via emails.
Have quite a bit of info on the buildings, but it's a waste, without having some photos to work off of. Touched base with the
curator at Venlo airfield, asking for some photos. He told me...he didn't have time to fool with such stuff!
He did give me a large photo of the airfield...one that has now been shared. Yeah, there's a few building photos floating around, but not much. Venlo has rail tracks through it.

[mongoose]

Have you checked my Venlo yet?

[crossram]

No, not yet. Have you checked AAF_station_121, yet? Maybe I can install your Venlo, this weekend, and have a looksee.

Majority of my time, is in Gmax, or PSP, right now, besides my endless researching.

[mongoose]

I must confess I haven't :untroubled: but I will put it into ETO or similar as I never use the stock CFS3. What era would you suggest; 4? I will see if other airfields have to be moved in ETO or if they were already placed more correctly. I do note that ACC group did make a new Bassingbourn; 'ACC_Bassingbourn_airbase' as well so I will have to back up and compare!

[mongoose]

Further. I put it into era 4 in one of my various ETO+ installs, and changed the ACC version out for it + all the other suggested changes. WOW! You did a really great job which makes my Deelen and Venlo look pretty amateurish! Especially the way the airfield blends into the surroundings is neat; the extra parts help, although I am not sure how you manged that. Pics below:applause::applause:

1. runway

https://i.ibb.co/ZMxhJmP/Bassingbourn-Runway.png


2. 2500ft

https://i.ibb.co/D8Yxd9r/Bassingbourn-2500.png

5K ft

https://i.ibb.co/vvg66jy/Bassingbourn-5000.png

10Kft

https://i.ibb.co/vhwcvXp/Bassingbourn-10000.png

[crossram]

Your comments are greatly appreciated! Thanks! Glad you like it. I put alot of time into 121...actually needs more work, on buildings, and such. Could have tossed a bunch of vehicles in, including a few I'm still working on.

Unfortunately, none of your screenshots show, for me. Probably my wore out PC.

Gilze-Rijen is sort of being made, in the same fashion. I've got to add alpha to my netting .dds, that will help.

I'll check out your Venlo, this weekend. Have to go through the files, and install what is required, and go from there.