FR B-24 Liberator Released

[mike_cyul]

Just to let you know that the Flight Replicas B-24 Liberator is now available.

For more information: http://www.flight-replicas.com/B24_Home.htm

And I can't thank the 'pre-painters' enough for volunteering their talents and time to help make this a very special experience. They prepared an amazing selection for you.

Hope you like it!

[ColoKent]

Do'oh! There goes my allowance...bought it...AND the Super Cub....downloading.

Kent

[Bomber_12th]

It is such a magnificent product by Mike, with an incredibly high level of accuracy and detail throughout.

I only just finished this repaint a couple days ago, so it is not included with my other two, but I have just uploaded it here to Sim-Outhouse. This repaint depicts the restored Consolidated Fort Worth built B-24J-85-CF 44-44052 owned and operated by The Collings Foundation, registered as N224J, one of only two B-24's still flying. This aircraft was originally delivered to the RAF as a Liberator GR.VI, serial KH191, in October 1944 and flew anti-shipping, bombing and re-supply missions in the Pacific Theatre. After WWII it was one of 36 B-24's to actively serve in the Indian Air Force until 1968. In 1981 the aircraft was acquired by Doug Arnold and airfreighted to the UK where it was stored until the Collings Foundation acquired it in 1984. The restoration to return the aircraft to flight took place at Tom Reilly's Vintage Aircraft company in Kissimmee, Florida, which after more than 5 years and 97,000+ man hours resulted in the aircraft flying again for the first time on Sept. 10, 1989. It was initially painted as "The All American", and then as "The Dragon and His Tail" for several years. In 2005, the aircraft was completely repainted as it appears now as 'Witchcraft'. The original 'Witchcraft' was a Ford-built B-24H assigned to the 790th BS, 467th BG, 8th Air Force, based at Rackheath, England, known as the "Rackheath Aggies". The original 'Witchcraft' flew an incredible 130 combat missions with various crews between April 1944 and April 1945 with no serious injuries or casualties to any of its crew members. In 2005, original 467th BG artist and 'Witchcraft' crewman Bob Dekerf applied the nose art on the Collings aircraft just as he had on the original in 1944.

These screenshots are from FSX in DX10 mode.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49800698802_73be2bcf1f_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49799843733_937ae4d6e3_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49800389046_de9f608e98_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49800698657_af6371fd83_o.jpg

And a screenshot just to show that I did take the time to make sure that when the waist gunner's windows and deflector panels are all closed up, that the stars & bars are all properly aligned across all of those parts. : )

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49800388791_1eb293d3d6_o.jpg

[marijn]

Just bought the civilian version, do not fly much with military aircraft anyway. Can't wait to get the download:applause:

[Josh Patterson]

Thanks for doing Witchcraft John. It's fun to fly stuff in FSX that I've actually seen in the markings I saw them in. Downloading my B-24 fleet now!

[Greenhouse357]

Awesome job Mike! Is the paint kit available or did I miss it? I was hoping you would do that paint John!

[wells]

I bought the complete package. Thanks for the models!

[mike_cyul]

Awesome job Mike! Is the paint kit available or did I miss it? I was hoping you would do that paint John!

Yes, the paint kits are available on the Downloads page:

http://www.flight-replicas.com/Downloads.htm

[Greenhouse357]

Thanks, Mike. I'm getting old and blind as a bat evidently. I looked on that page earlier lol.

[Sundog]

Awesome!!!! OMW to get it.

BTW, did you guys know the Colling's Foundation lost their certificate to operate (https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=FAA-2001-11089-1673&fbclid=IwAR3V-9KnRaU9gMtHMread8e4ZllkfY3qVoeh4Pakstt7pYyiw7RTzSt ytfc) due to safety violations? Just an FYI.

Anyway, it's Liberator time!!! Look out Ploesti!

[Bomber_12th]

One of my Facebook friends/acquaintances used to fly as a pilot for Collings (1,300 hrs in the B-24, as well as time in the B-17, B-25 and a ton of hours in the TP-51C as well), and while testing the Flight Replicas B-24 I exchanged a few e-mails with him about flying the Collings B-24J for sake of comparison. One of the items discussed was how, although the Collings B-24 is fully loaded with all of the combat equipment such as turrets/armament/ammunition/WWII radios, etc., they fly it quite lightly loaded, starting at around 40,000 lbs gross weight for a typical flight with minimum crew. As such, for a typical flight in the sim with the Flight Replicas B-24J, I only load 250 gallons per wing, which will get you quite far, and I fly with the weight of the bombs removed and sometimes even with the crew weight down to only 600 lbs (minimum crew of pilot/co-pilot/crew chief), this way you're not dealing with trying to get a dump truck in the air like you do with a full mission combat loading of fuel and bombs (but of course if you are wanting to fly the airplane on a single trip, all day long, it can do it and more on a full fuel load). Some of the things that we discussed, and which Mike's flight model simulates so well, is that when you are making banks or turns in the B-24, you have to lead with the rudders due to the amount of adverse yaw caused by the long wings. When comparing flying the B-24 to the B-17 and B-25, the B-24 was said to be the most unstable of the three, but it is much more responsive on the controls than the B-17. The B-24 has been described to me as being a "neutrally stable" aircraft. A crucial aspect of flying the B-24 is "getting on the step", like a boat, when transitioning from climb to cruise. If you fail to get the nose down and on the step you can lose up to 20 mph and just be mushing along in a nose-high attitude. Since there is no published VMC, Collings (and probably the CAF as well) use 130mph as the number. An item I learned from another Collings pilot, and which I also first noticed with Mike's B-24 flight model, is that the B-24 requires a flat approach for landing, as the flaps don't support a steep approach. Another of the important aspects in operating a B-24 that I was told was of the nose gear being a weak point and that it can cause a shimmy if it is left on the ground too long into the takeoff roll. On the takeoff roll, it was described to me that you want to hold some light back pressure on the elevator to help the nose wheel to come up (after 60 mph), and then hold that pressure allowing the aircraft to fly off on its own, around 110mph. I usually dial in about 3.5-degrees nose up trim prior to takeoff, and then begin taking some of it out after getting the gear up (a process I have seen at play in operating the Collings B-24). On landing, you want to hold the nose gear off, which also helps in aerodynamic braking, and lower it gently, then start building the brake pressure up to slow down to taxi speed.

About Collings losing their certificate for providing history flights. Collings will be able to reapply when the time is right, with proof of proper actions, and I hope they will. They would of course be under much greater scrutiny and oversight going forward.

[MustangL2W]

I have Flown the 24 all afternoon with my Operating Manual beside me. I am very impressed with the level of accuracy and how well this airplane "Fly's" the Numbers. I knew a B-24 pilot for many years who flew out of the airport where I did. When asked, he always said the key to flying the B-24 well, was being able to get it "on-step," and keep it balanced there throughout the flight. (He was talking Long Range of course loaded with Fuel and Bombs, and then returning light back to base) He said that in itself was hard work... then you had to try to Form up, and hold your place in the Formation at the same time for hours on end. Bob used to ask "What's your definition of responsibility?" He then would say that he was 22 years old. Shining bars on his shoulders and Wings upon his chest, and the U.S. Army gave him a Brand new $300,000 B-24. 10 guys with Browning .50 Caliber machine guns and a Top-Secret Norden Bomb Sight, and laid upon him the responsibility of getting them from Nebraska to England...ALIVE!! He also loved to add that the B-24's built by Ford Motor Company were Far superior to the ones built in other factories. He said the Ford built Lib's were Tighter, Quieter, more Reliable, and a few knots faster than the others because of the high standards and tight tolerances Ford demanded. Bob said you could really tell the difference.

This thing is a real joy to fly, and was well worth the wait!! With all the incredible repaints available with it...this is an aircraft package that will be hard to beat for a Long, Long time!! My hat is off to Flight Replicas! Thank You to the Painters as well, and let's remember those who Flew these back when they were needed and what was required of them all...
"Keep 'Em Flying!!"

[MZee1960]

Too bad only for Acceleration and not SP2 ......

[Bomber_12th]

It should work just fine in SP2, I think you just won't have the turbo simulation that is allowed with Acceleration (as is also the case with P3D).

[BendyFlyer]

.......Some of the things that we discussed, and which Mike's flight model simulates so well, is that when you are making banks or turns in the B-24, you have to lead with the rudders due to the amount of adverse yaw caused by the long wings. When comparing flying the B-24 to the B-17 and B-25, the B-24 was said to be the most unstable of the three, but it is much more responsive on the controls than the B-17. The B-24 has been described to me as being a "neutrally stable" aircraft. A crucial aspect of flying the B-24 is "getting on the step", like a boat, when transitioning from climb to cruise. If you fail to get the nose down and on the step you can lose up to 20 mph and just be mushing along in a nose-high attitude. Since there is no published VMC, Collings (and probably the CAF as well) use 130mph as the number. An item I learned from another Collings pilot, and which I also first noticed with Mike's B-24 flight model, is that the B-24 requires a flat approach for landing, as the flaps don't support a steep approach. Another of the important aspects in operating a B-24 that I was told was of the nose gear being a weak point and that it can cause a shimmy if it is left on the ground too long into the takeoff roll. On the takeoff roll, it was described to me that you want to hold some light back pressure on the elevator to help the nose wheel to come up (after 60 mph), and then hold that pressure allowing the aircraft to fly off on its own, around 110mph. I usually dial in about 3.5-degrees nose up trim prior to takeoff, and then begin taking some of it out after getting the gear up (a process I have seen at play in operating the Collings B-24). On landing, you want to hold the nose gear off, which also helps in aerodynamic braking, and lower it gently, then start building the brake pressure up to slow down to taxi speed.

Some good 'gouge' for the users there Bomber_12th on how to fly this aeroplane. Look forward to having a go at this one in time. I thought it would be worth mentioning that 'leading with rudder in any aircraft in any turn' is the way to fly any aeroplane but rarely stressed by younger pilots who get used to aircraft with more stable designs that were designed to be be easy to fly. This is hard to do in flight simulation unless you have a stick and pedal rudder setup and if like me a joystick and keyboard beyond my dexterity so my turns in the sim are always unbalanced to start. The same with getting on the 'step' which was fundamental to getting older types to fly accurately straight and level - generally the best technique to achieve this was to get slightly above your desired cruising level and then nudge the nose down and then reset the attitude to straight and level on capturing that altitude. Again older types and designs this was common knowledge and practice but again another older flying issue that is largely no longer stressed with modern aircraft. A small point 'adverse yaw' is a result of the aileron design not the wing which is why differential ailerons and freize ailerons were developed and neutrally stable means if displaced from a path it will move to that new path and stay there that is the design will not work aerodynamically to get it back to the old path - all typical aerodynamic problems with aircraft of that era - after all aerodynamics was an evolving science and still is. A little off topic I realise. I do recall Ernest K Gann who flew these as well had the view they were structurally weak in the nose wing area which meant a crash landing would have the nose section fold up around the cockpit area a feature he was not impressed with. Anyway look forward to punting this one around indeed.

[dvj]

Purchased, downloaded, and flying. Always a favorite aircraft from my young plastic model days. A must have for warbird fans. I wonder...... if there are plans for automated turrets that would come on at X altitude in future versions?

cheers,

d

[mike_cyul]

Purchased, downloaded, and flying. Always a favorite aircraft from my young plastic model days. A must have for warbird fans. I wonder...... if there are plans for automated turrets that would come on at X altitude in future versions?

cheers,

d

There were all sorts of plans for the turrets, and other things, but unfortunately there's a limit to polygons and animations and the B-24 is at the very absolute limit of what I could get to compile.

I dream of the day when there are no limits. :)

[Josh Patterson]

It there a way to open the sliding and/or hinged windows in the cockpit? I only saw clickspots for the waist gunners, ball turret and pilots in the manual. Or, as the post above states, were you out of animations so they are indeed fixed?

[mike_cyul]

It there a way to open the sliding and/or hinged windows in the cockpit? I only saw clickspots for the waist gunners, ball turret and pilots in the manual. Or, as the post above states, were you out of animations so they are indeed fixed?

They are indeed fixed.

[mike_cyul]

Incidentally, if you're curious about how popular FSX is these days, here's how the first two days of sales have gone:

P3Dv4.5 = 22%

P3Dv5 = 22%

FSX/P3D to v3 = 56%


Wouldn't necessarily read too much into it, could well change over time and it may just apply to the demographic interested in WW2 bombers, etc..

[Josh Patterson]

They are indeed fixed.Bummer, but I understand. Heck of an add on! I see there is a PB4Y model listed, but no actual planes. (Other than the texture JK did on the J. Looks fantastic.) Is your model the glass nosed or turret nosed -1?

[Josh Patterson]

Has anyone else had problems with the textures for "Witchcraft", "Princess Pat" or "My Akin?" I have the Bob Rivera modified textures, but the windows and VCs on these three are black for me. Are they P3D and do not work in FSX? All the other textures I've added (Holy cow there are a lot!) have been fine.

[Bomber_12th]

Josh, for my repaints, I only included the files I modified or made myself. As I instruct in my readme files, you have to copy the contents of the product's Texture.461st folder and paste those texture files into my repaint folders (not overwriting my files) in order to have the rest of the needed texture files. This way too, I figured it wouldn't require so much download time for my repaints.

[Josh Patterson]

Josh, for my repaints, I only included the files I modified or made myself. As I instruct in my readme files, you have to copy the contents of the product's Texture.461st folder and paste those texture files into my repaint folders (not overwriting my files) in order to have the rest of the needed texture files. This way too, I figured it wouldn't require so much download time for my repaints. Okay, thanks for the help.. I didn't read anything as I thought I knew what I was doing. I noticed some of the other add-on textures have only eight files but include a texture.cfg falling back to the 461 texture. I tried just copying that to the Princess Pat folder and that also gets everything working. Something to watch out four next time I have trouble. The bare metal repaints are nice and shiny. Just like if I owned one!

[Bomber_12th]

Sounds good, Josh! I had tried the .cfg file setup too, but I could never get it to work properly every time.

B-24's were very reflective and shiny when they rolled out of the factory. This wasn't due to any sort of polishing, but the fact that brand new, fresh aluminum from Alcoa with their "Alclad" finish, and from Reynolds with their equivalent "Pure Clad" finish, came that way. Skins/panels that had to be handled more and skins with complex curves became dulled in areas where tools (rollers or dies) left microscopic imperfections during the shaping processes (these duller panels can appear both brighter or darker compared to the rest of the skins, depending on the lighting/reflection scenario), but for the most part they were pretty clean machines when they came out of the factory. In the months to follow, they of course would begin to dull some with oxidation while in service - but you can even still see in color photos and movie footage taken in the Pacific, at the end of the war, of B-24's with numerous missions to their credit, still being very reflective (not always illustrated well in B&W photos). When doing "Pugnacious Princess Pat", I noticed it still had quite a high level of reflection in the surface of the aluminum skins (with 11 missions under its belt at the time), and I wanted to have it looking that way in the sim as well. I've also been inspired by model box art that typically portrays B-24's with quite a reflective/shiny finish too. On my repaint of "My Akin ?", it really should be dulled more, with all of the mission markings on it, but I really just wanted to keep it reflective and shiny with the red cowl rings, which really attracted me to it (as it is depicted with in artwork). It ensures the aircraft still looks nice flying into a modern airport or a virtual airshow in FSX or P3D as well. : )

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ii120/Duggy009/Duggy009-1/B-24J.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/8184/8092058030_7bfddfe293_b.jpg

[Josh Patterson]

Sounds good, Josh! I had tried the .cfg file setup too, but I could never get it to work properly every time.

B-24's were very reflective and shiny when they rolled out of the factory. This wasn't due to any sort of polishing, but the fact that brand new, fresh aluminum from Alcoa with their "Alclad" finish, and from Reynolds with their equivalent "Pure Clad" finish, came that way. Skins/panels that had to be handled more and skins with complex curves became dulled in areas where tools (rollers or dies) left microscopic imperfections during the shaping processes (these duller panels can appear both brighter or darker compared to the rest of the skins, depending on the lighting/reflection scenario), but for the most part they were pretty clean machines when they came out of the factory. In the months to follow, they of course would begin to dull some with oxidation while in service - but you can even still see in color photos and movie footage taken in the Pacific, at the end of the war, of B-24's with numerous missions to their credit, still being very reflective (not always illustrated well in B&W photos). When doing "Pugnacious Princess Pat", I noticed it still had quite a high level of reflection in the surface of the aluminum skins (with 11 missions under its belt at the time), and I wanted to have it looking that way in the sim as well. I've also been inspired by model box art that typically portrays B-24's with quite a reflective/shiny finish too. On my repaint of "My Akin ?", it really should be dulled more, with all of the mission markings on it, but I really just wanted to keep it reflective and shiny with the red cowl rings, which really attracted me to it (as it is depicted with in artwork). It ensures the aircraft still looks nice flying into a modern airport or a virtual airshow in FSX or P3D as well. : )

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ii120/Duggy009/Duggy009-1/B-24J.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/8184/8092058030_7bfddfe293_b.jpgThanks John. That's exactly how I fly 'em. As warbirds. I wish the cargo and passenger versions would be available with the glass nose so a vintage Diamond 'Lil could be done with the windows that are in the fuselage. (Although it has Catalina style cowlings on it) I just learned a tidbit on the Liberator tonight too. I noticed that the pitot tubes on the Ds are missing from the Js. I never knew they were moved. Also, whether the nose gear doors opened in or out on the Js depended if they were built in San Diego or elsewhere. Same with the waist gun positions having the opening panels or solid perspex covers with a gun mount in the corner similar to a B-25. The amount of variations on the later models can make your head swim! ( The word "most" is used a lot when the book is describing details! Seems like a bunch of "Let's do it this way unless we do it the other way today." was going on!) And still 18,000 managed to get cranked out!

[WarHorse47]

Josh, for my repaints, I only included the files I modified or made myself. As I instruct in my readme files, you have to copy the contents of the product's Texture.461st folder and paste those texture files into my repaint folders (not overwriting my files) in order to have the rest of the needed texture files. This way too, I figured it wouldn't require so much download time for my repaints.John, I was going to ask you about this. My install doesn't have a texture.461st folder. I was able to get your textures loaded by copying over the contents of one of JK's texture folders, his textures included several paints from the 461st. And there are several 461st textures by tgycgijoes as well. I have the full package BTW, so I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing.

[mike_cyul]

John, I was going to ask you about this. My install doesn't have a texture.461st folder. I was able to get your textures loaded by copying over the contents of one of JK's texture folders, his textures included several paints from the 461st. And there are several 461st textures by tgycgijoes as well. I have the full package BTW, so I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing.

Warhorse, the 461st is listed as texture.Irish Angel in the B-24J's.

[WarHorse47]

Warhorse, the 461st is listed as texture.Irish Angel in the B-24J's.Thanks. :adoration:

[SSI01]

Thanks John. That's exactly how I fly 'em. As warbirds. I wish the cargo and passenger versions would be available with the glass nose so a vintage Diamond 'Lil could be done with the windows that are in the fuselage. (Although it has Catalina style cowlings on it) I just learned a tidbit on the Liberator tonight too. I noticed that the pitot tubes on the Ds are missing from the Js. I never knew they were moved. Also, whether the nose gear doors opened in or out on the Js depended if they were built in San Diego or elsewhere. Same with the waist gun positions having the opening panels or solid perspex covers with a gun mount in the corner similar to a B-25. The amount of variations on the later models can make your head swim! ( The word "most" is used a lot when the book is describing details! Seems like a bunch of "Let's do it this way unless we do it the other way today." was going on!) And still 18,000 managed to get cranked out!

I may be wrong but I seem to recall there was at least one B-24 variant with a "bay window" in the navigator's position in the nose, below the astrodome and on both sides of the nose. Longer than it was tall, should have given a pretty good VFR nav view from that location.

[Josh Patterson]

I may be wrong but I seem to recall there was at least one B-24 variant with a "bay window" in the navigator's position in the nose, below the astrodome and on both sides of the nose. Longer than it was tall, should have given a pretty good VFR nav view from that location.Yes, that was a feature of the L model. It was bulged out as well.

[mal998]

Thank you for a very nice model. I bought the full set. She is a beauty. I was hoping for more detailed systems but I do understand FSX's limitations. Also, I miss the nose gear doors on this version of the B-24. I am aware that many of the earlier B-24's had this type of nose wheel set up. For me, that's just a personal preference. But again, thanks for a really nice model. Keep'em coming!

[Bomber_12th]

Mal, both of the different nose gear door styles are depicted depending on which variant you're flying.

Mike's attention to detail can be seen in the incredibly large amount of accurate production changes between the different variants he has covered. For instance, besides all of the cockpit changes, of which there are a staggering amount (including even such things as differences in the most basic of hardware, like early vs. late light switches), there are two different styles of nose gear doors between the early and late B-24's that Mike has covered - the early ones retracting into the wheel well and the late ones extending outward. The early ones don't have ball turrets like the later ones, and some of the early ones have a tunnel gun position instead. The pitot tubes changed over time from having two sticking above the nose to just one on the bottom left side of the nose. Mike even has the change between the early and late Martin top turrets properly depicted. You'll also notice in Mike's coverage of the B-24 that things like the nose turret, windscreen and waist gunner stations are different between even just the earlier and later J-models.

BTW, there were so many different nose configurations on B-24's during the war, through both factory production block changes and post-factory modifications, that there has been a book out, that all it is about is all of the various nose configurations of B-24's and which production blocks they are attributed to. The book is called Consolidated Mess.

Here is a screenshot taking off out of Geneseo, NY, with the cowl flaps in trail and flaps set at takeoff setting (position 2), coming up on 130mph and ready to cycle the gear.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814572712_d56552e2da_o.jpg

The nose gear gets hydraulic pressure first, and then it transitions to the main gear, which take their time to retract. After reducing to climb power, and once the gear is up, you can start retracting the flaps.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814607622_b78dc48ceb_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814641452_a71d0bae16_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49813795148_332589fe90_o.jpg

[Bomber_12th]

When the bomb bay doors are open, the white indicator light in the tail illuminates. When the bombs are released, the red tail indicator light also illuminates momentarily until after the bombs are gone.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49813795028_b5d617dbcc_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814641127_6a9381e0d3_o.jpg

[Bomber_12th]

When landing in a modern airport environment, talking with the former Collings B-24 pilots, they described the following: Coming into the pattern with the B-24 is straight forward. Around 5-10 miles out start bringing the power back to slow the airplane to 140mph. About 3 miles from the airport you can select Flaps 1 and lower the gear. The gear can take a while to cycle down so you have to plan accordingly with air traffic conditions. About midfield downwind you can select Flaps 2, maintaining 130mph, and set the propellers to 2500 RPM for possible go-around. Once abeam the numbers you can select flaps 3 or 4 depending on your position in the pattern. The base to final turn is a descending turn from pattern altitude, continuing to bring the throttles back to 22" MP and selecting flaps 4 if you hadn't already. 120mph should be maintained until the runway is assured. Once over the numbers you can close the throttles and land with the nose wheel well off the ground. This facilitates aerodynamic braking and protection of the nosewheel structure. The nose wheel should be gently lowered to the runway and work the brake pressure up to slow the airplane to taxi speed.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814401696_e48d38464a_o.jpg

[dvj]

FSX
https://i.imgur.com/xMnAPvH.jpg

[Catboat]

Struth Mike, Holy Snapping Duckdung!! You,ve done it again-your products have always be great, but the B24 is top of the Wozza. (Sorry, I got carried away-little bit of the local vernacular creeping in there). Congratulations, very impressed. Just as an aside, I read a few years ago that some B24 pilots developed a technique at high weights, to get the aircraft on the step, of selecting flap 10 degrees, which levelled the body angle, and gained 10 to 15 knots i.a.s, despite the 180 knot flap limit. I,ve tried it with the B24, and it appears to work. Has anyone heard about this technique as well?

[Josh Patterson]

When the bomb bay doors are open, the white indicator light in the tail illuminates. When the bombs are released, the red tail indicator light also illuminates momentarily until after the bombs are gone.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49813795028_b5d617dbcc_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49814641127_6a9381e0d3_o.jpg Looks like I'll have to check out Consolidated Mess! Some of the changes or not changes I mentioned earlier I found out in Detail and Scale. Sounds like they were just showing the tip of the iceberg! For instance, nose gear doors on J models opened outward, but San Diego built Js still had them open inward......But occasionally they open outward. On the subject of nose gear and Witchcraft I was wondering... Since entry can be gained through the nose wheel well, how does Collings and CAF go about securing the aircraft when it is left outside on tour?

[Bomber_12th]

It would be a tough deal to try and wedge yourself up through the nose wheel well. There is just enough space between the front of the gear and the front of the well, but you have to really contort yourself to get in that way. The standard procedure of course for the crew to enter/exit the B-24 was through the bomb bay, which still required squatting and bending to get down low enough. There is an access panel on the right side of the aircraft, next to and ahead of the bomb bay doors, with a clutch inside that allows you to control the doors from the outside (the external battery/APU receptacle is located there as well). The Collings Foundation always has the doors open while taxiing on the ground for the sake of safety/faster egress if there were ever a need. With the persistent problems with fuel leaks and fumes in B-24's in WWII, it was also quite common for crews back then to keep the bomb bay doors open while taxiing and would do so in flight as well if it became too much of a problem (all of the Liberator crews were all too aware of the stories at the time of B-24's exploding without warning). There is also a hatch in the bottom of the rear fuselage, and for those who have ever been out to see the Collings bombers know that that is where you enter for the ground tours and you exit out of the bomb bay, not being allowed to go any farther forward.

[mongo55]

This plane is beautiful, but I have a question about the supercharger controls and settings in P3D V5. The manual states that "[i]n P3Dv4.5 and up, these controls do not work, but the supercharging option in the aircraft.cfg will give the necessary MP." The aircraft.cfg has the following entries by default: "turbocharged=1" and "supercharged=0." Should these be changed to "turbocharged=0" and "supercharged=1." Mike Gutierrez, North Hollywood, California.

[mal998]

John, Re: the nose gear doors...thank you for pointing that out to me. Much appreciated.

Question, where can I find paints for FSX?

[mike_cyul]

This plane is beautiful, but I have a question about the supercharger controls and settings in P3D V5. The manual states that "[i]n P3Dv4.5 and up, these controls do not work, but the supercharging option in the aircraft.cfg will give the necessary MP." The aircraft.cfg has the following entries by default: "turbocharged=1" and "supercharged=0." Should these be changed to "turbocharged=0" and "supercharged=1." Mike Gutierrez, North Hollywood, California.

Hi Mike. You don't need to do anything, it's already been done for you. It's my explanation that needs changing. :)

[mike_cyul]

John, Re: the nose gear doors...thank you for pointing that out to me. Much appreciated.

Question, where can I find paints for FSX?


I'm sure they'll all eventually show up in the normal locations (SOH Library, Avsim, etc.), but for now you can find them here: http://www.flight-replicas.com/B24_Home.htm

Just scroll down a little and you'll see them.

[mal998]

Excellent! Thank you Sir!

[jankees]

I'm slowly posting mine, like this one:
Daedalus, as you all probably already know, was the father of Icarus, the inventor of the Labyrinth, and the first man to successfully land after flying from Crete to Sicily. Icarus unfortunately did not make it...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49817046883_263a0afc32_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iUaorr)2020-4-25_16-27-21-634 (https://flic.kr/p/2iUaorr)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49817046933_99f61838f2_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iUaosi)2020-4-25_16-26-7-318 (https://flic.kr/p/2iUaosi)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49817889272_31309ebf71_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iUeGRo)2020-4-25_16-25-53-401 (https://flic.kr/p/2iUeGRo)

the ones on Mike site work for FSX/P3D up to V4.
The ones I'm uploading are for P3Dv5, but they might work fine in earlier sims, I just don't know.

[tgycgijoes]

Mike just emailed me to let all of you fellow sim pilots who want to really fly Mike's fantastic B24J what it was designed to do...virtual USAAF is accepting pilots to become a part of the virtual 461st Bombardment Group (H) and fly the real missions in real weather to real custom-designed targets using FSX@War and JoinFS. Here is where to check it out: https://tgycgijoes5.wixsite.com/liberaiders you've seen the first 10 repaints of the 764th Bomb Squadron here and at Flight Replicas. Help us to honor "the greatest generation" of WWII USAAF pilots and aircrew. :loyal:

[mongo55]

Mike: Thank you for replying to my question about the supercharging. It's a lovely airplane. Mike Gutierrez, North Hollywood, California.

[Ghost rider 78]

From first install of the B-24, flipping the battery switch or any lighting switch except the compass light switch causes FSX to shut down and restart; the compass light switch does actually illuminate the compass. I've reinstalled the B-24 and FSX a few times also uninstalled and reinstalled my Nvidia graphics card drivers. No matter what I do the problem persists. I've been in touch with Mike at Flight Replicas and he's at a loss too. It's past 3 A.M. and I'm tearing what little hair I have left out:adoration: Any help would be greatly appreciated !

[mike_cyul]

From first install of the B-24, flipping the battery switch or any lighting switch except the compass light switch causes FSX to shut down and restart; the compass light switch does actually illuminate the compass. I've reinstalled the B-24 and FSX a few times also uninstalled and reinstalled my Nvidia graphics card drivers. No matter what I do the problem persists. I've been in touch with Mike at Flight Replicas and he's at a loss too. It's past 3 A.M. and I'm tearing what little hair I have left out:adoration: Any help would be greatly appreciated !

Resolved. Turned out to be some corruption during the download.

[Ghost rider 78]

From first install of the B-24, flipping the battery switch or any lighting switch except the compass light switch causes FSX to shut down and restart; the compass light switch does actually illuminate the compass. I've reinstalled the B-24 and FSX a few times also uninstalled and reinstalled my Nvidia graphics card drivers. No matter what I do the problem persists. I've been in touch with Mike at Flight Replicas and he's at a loss too. It's past 3 A.M. and I'm tearing what little hair I have left out:adoration: Any help would be greatly appreciated !


Problem resolved. Mike at Flight Replicas came up with the answer, corrupted download. Redownloaded the package and everything in the B-24 now works as it should. A heartfelt Salute to Mike, he went above and beyond helping me resolve this problem.

[jankees]

I uploaded a few more paints for P3Dv5, this time of the 461st BG, some were available on the Flight Replicas site, but the two green ones were not I think:
#6 Mister Period
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49756683173_a0b560b07a_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iNQ1pP)jk6333 (https://flic.kr/p/2iNQ1pP)

#15 Miss Lace:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49731348167_01c61fdcd0_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iLAacn)jk6101 (https://flic.kr/p/2iLAacn)

#26 Arsenic and Lace
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49757368566_9f21446da3_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iNTw9W)jk6353 (https://flic.kr/p/2iNTw9W)

#51 Pisces
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49825159952_3dd87e83b7_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iUSYaW)2020-4-27_8-37-16-516 (https://flic.kr/p/2iUSYaW)

[tgycgijoes]

Have you done this for FSX also?

[jamminjames]

Have you done this for FSX also? Jankees please do your B-24's for FSX! There must be a larger following for FSX than for P3D.

[Catboat]

Jankees please do your B-24's for FSX! There must be a larger following for FSX than for P3D.
Hi JKB. Re the above. I am stuck with FSX Acceleration for the foreseeable future, and I realise it is a different platform, but any chance of your B24 reprints for FSX.

Very Best Regards.

[Bomber_12th]

There's no reason not to use any of the released repaints for either FSX or P3D - they are the same files. Any repaints made for the P3D version are perfectly useable with the FSX version, and vice-versa. All of the repaints I've released so-far (more to come) are for use in FSX just as much as they are for P3D. The only difference would be changes to affect the look of the reflection/shine in P3D vs. FSX (but it's really not a big deal), and in my experience things are similar-enough to not garner making unique versions for each sim.

Here's an example of the exact same repaint in both FSX and P3Dv5:

(FSX)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49766906538_0709500528_o.jpg

(P3Dv5)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49811406263_2b931cea9b_o.jpg

[jankees]

I originally did all my paints for FSX/P3Dv4.5, but when I installed P3Dv5 I discovered two things:
- my harddisk was too small for v4.5 and v5, so I went for v5
- my paints looked slightly different,shinier, with small adaptations to the alpha channel being necessary.
Since I now run only P3Dv5, I can't check what my paints look like in FSX/v4.5.
However, the layout is exactly the same, so there's no reason not to use them in FSX/v4.5, they may just be a bit duller, as John has shown.
All paints on Mike's Site (Flight Replicas) are the FSX/v4.5 versions, the ones I'm uploading now are the P3Dv5 versions, which you can use in FSX/v4.5, which is why is was showing them here, but since I made them for v5, I listed them under P3D in the library.
John has shown the different looks of a bare metal paint, perhaps someone can also show pics of the difference with camouflaged paints?

[Bomber_12th]

The way in which any aircraft/repaint looks in P3Dv5 can vary greatly, since there is a range provided of lighting/atmospheric options in P3D. If you have HDR lighting and advanced atmospherics turned off in P3Dv5, it still looks very much like FSX. However, with HDR lighting and enhanced atmospherics on in P3Dv5, it looks like a completely different sim. There is just a different level of contrast/colors, all dependent on individual settings, and a different level of power given to the diffuse alpha channels in P3D vs. FS.

Using the same files in both P3Dv5 and FSX, I like the appearance either way.

Here are the Collings Foundation's B-24J & Me-262 in FSX DX10 (unedited, with no shader addons):

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49835567438_9a9539f328_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49835586573_1c9118a108_o.jpg

This is same exact repaint in P3Dv5 (unedited, and with no shader addons, using P3Dv5's built-in HDR lighting and enhanced atmospherics).

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49799843288_a972b8dd8b_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49807122737_ce5d493b85_o.jpg

[tgycgijoes]

Thanks all for that information. Then all MY 461st repaints available at the Flight Replicas site will work in P3Dv5 too and will look even better than on my computer. BTW JanKees created Mr. Period for the 461st BG 764th BS generously at my request to complete our 10 original 764th Bomb Squad aircraft that started at Torretta AAF in Italy.

[Bomber_12th]

Speaking of Torretta Airfield, one of my Facebook friends and a former Collings pilot, Jim Harley, has been sharing photos from a trip he and other members of the Collings Foundation took to Italy in 2007, where they were able to locate a few of the 15th Air Force B-24 bases from WWII, including Torretta AAF (461st Bomb Group), San Giovanni AAF (454th and 455th Bomb Groups) and Pantanella AAF (464th and 465th Bomb Groups). The first paint scheme worn by the Collings Foundation B-24, through the 90's, was that of "All American", loosely based on an original 461st BG B-24 by the same name, done to honor of one of Bob Collings' friends who was an original crew member.

These are Jim's photos from Torretta AAF:

https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95224489_10158390409154533_2723445595686567936_o.j pg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=GpvnOV9Dbx4AX-Ew9k9&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=57e34bab62ae414937b82a949cd94b28&oe=5ED2BCEC
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https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95512472_10158390407664533_9049755500106743808_o.j pg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=USCqktQdbfEAX8CutKS&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=7e03485314243d7235bbe1c17bb3c1d6&oe=5ED187F6
https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95616699_10158390407844533_135113748372258816_o.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=UabkXLtETdMAX_QTT5G&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=46a825253746efba78542b9f4f3a5c58&oe=5ECF143D
https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/94889578_10158390407929533_9129383111442825216_o.j pg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=5MvLYlk4kmsAX-LkgaF&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=6ba558b1c0ed956d73e3809894b695e3&oe=5ECF18C4
https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95558133_10158390407974533_8901698781888643072_o.j pg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=n3WqHmAcvjAAX-GESIB&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=3d336bc1b0de2415dca672ff5d00cf4c&oe=5ED1ED0A
https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95108103_10158390408059533_8030325358630797312_o.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=F_KJNlOy4xcAX8UIe2O&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=2e190a4bacc1e07330df3029ba680e82&oe=5ED19ABC
https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/94989115_10158390408119533_2526314748648095744_o.j pg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=5W_hZRJkZlgAX92_yaa&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=54099a54113d56d0e18eb825306261ff&oe=5ECFB970
https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95352752_10158390408164533_5702811366075662336_o.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=oalvC381XOgAX9oGsue&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=3e4cfb440093db840c6ccb806d887121&oe=5ED24644
https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95262852_10158390408414533_3352909968159277056_o.j pg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=O3oIf0pdg58AX92KAwc&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=aad2474818c0d539fe4db72829a2e716&oe=5ED1DCE2
https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95361637_10158390408499533_7651664579205791744_o.j pg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=MrfebRu7N5kAX9Hpvco&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=0f886bbba1beaf28574045c07f4434bc&oe=5ECF546C
https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95390667_10158390408659533_7616993485773602816_o.j pg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=6QGWeM9E-GMAX8qpZlG&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=81df1b7f0df4e80e740a3a94cf5f4d76&oe=5ED0BF9E
https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95479938_10158390408579533_3899772636242116608_o.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=CwQJWAls0ZEAX_cugdW&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=871a4d371bc9dabed5031066fba70fc5&oe=5ED06478
https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95469565_10158390408804533_9052829601474019328_o.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=FUzZAHCLp5EAX-WsuRx&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=77d7c31a5a5c317c8c0cd82ff8c490c7&oe=5ECEFFBF
https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95159580_10158390407774533_8254133815207788544_o.j pg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=Sb8lQZ-XFfwAX8abyEB&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=7f0003a0cf8c004eb3952ee7e30fc37a&oe=5ECFA264
https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/94947235_10158390408959533_4812067275240636416_o.j pg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=Gqz5SGNt6gkAX8B7kDw&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=355c4aab63f0c6f7826d4e554c39b7d4&oe=5ECF56D2
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https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95216294_10158390406754533_1225221334800269312_o.j pg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=v3889KXkNegAX-KMitK&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=74bea71d2e796fa6c024ae7284a68076&oe=5ED072CA
https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/95308645_10158390406914533_6416619924055130112_o.j pg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=a83260&_nc_ohc=NQOCop5Vj6AAX_uET-m&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=2dee7368f86606d20e4aa917164ab5de&oe=5ECFD5CB
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[jankees]

is there room in your hangars for two more Zodiac paints?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49845315816_70cc277372_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iWEgNQ)2020-5-2_13-19-2-739 (https://flic.kr/p/2iWEgNQ)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49845621542_55eceba99e_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iWFQFY)2020-5-2_13-16-38-799 (https://flic.kr/p/2iWFQFY)

[jankees]

and this one?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49849718252_19823a5f10_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iX3QuU)2020-5-3_11-32-17-395 (https://flic.kr/p/2iX3QuU)

[FlyingsCool]

The way in which any aircraft/repaint looks in P3Dv5 can vary greatly, since there is a range provided of lighting/atmospheric options in P3D. If you have HDR lighting and advanced atmospherics turned off in P3Dv5, it still looks very much like FSX. However, with HDR lighting and enhanced atmospherics on in P3Dv5, it looks like a completely different sim. There is just a different level of contrast/colors, all dependent on individual settings, and a different level of power given to the diffuse alpha channels in P3D vs. FS.

Using the same files in both P3Dv5 and FSX, I like the appearance either way.

Here are the Collings Foundation's B-24J & Me-262 in FSX DX10 (unedited, with no shader addons):



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49835586573_1c9118a108_o.jpg

This is same exact repaint in P3Dv5 (unedited, and with no shader addons, using P3Dv5's built-in HDR lighting and enhanced atmospherics).





Hi John,

Do you mind uploading your ME-262? I've been creating/collecting Collings Foundation paints. I'm working on someday working with them and helping them maintain a set of flight sim installs at their museum in Stow, one of the features of which will be to fly their planes.

Thanks,

[Bomber_12th]

That is the Flight Replicas two-seat Me-262, with a repaint by JensOle available here: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=180&linkid=10023

Attached is a copy of the "Fuselage 3.dds" file, for that repaint, which I've modified so that the canopy textures are fully present. Speaking of Collings, I've heard that their second B-17G (ex-Evergreen) is supposed to be getting painted as "Outhouse Mouse".

[FlyingsCool]

That is the Flight Replicas two-seat Me-262, with a repaint by JensOle available here: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=180&linkid=10023

Attached is a copy of the "Fuselage 3.dds" file, for that repaint, which I've modified so that the canopy textures are fully present. Speaking of Collings, I've heard that their second B-17G (ex-Evergreen) is supposed to be getting painted as "Outhouse Mouse".

Awesome.. Thanks!

That's great!. I hope they get to continue flying. I've only been out there once since my Dad passed in January, and then this Covid thing hit and the museum hasn't been opened, and I've been occupied with other stuff. But I need to get out there again in the next couple weeks, I imagine they'll be opening again in June or July I hope.

I was talking to Rob the day before the crash, and I asked if they'd had any further engine issues. They had to rush an engine out to California from the east coast in I think it was early March last year for the B-25, but didn't have any other major maintenance headaches after that. It had been a super record season for them last year. So sad.

[tgycgijoes]

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75936&stc=1 I'm wondering, where all the pilots are? The repainters are ALL here and doing fantastic work. Mike Cyul has already done his part by giving us this absolutely tremendous replica of the B-24 Liberator. Now its time for you to join us: the LIBERAIDERS, the 461st Bomb Group (virtual) and fly 'er like she was designed to be flown: in formation with other B-24's recreating history. The designer has done his part...the repainters have done their part, we've done OUR part recreating the scenery and the missions. NOW its YOUR turn. https://tgycgijoes5.wixsite.com/liberaiders What are you waiting for?

[Greenhouse357]

Here's another one I'm working On.

https://i.imgur.com/ok3Bl1K.jpg

[tgycgijoes]

Great job Dave. :encouragement:

[Greenhouse357]

...or Bob lol. Thanks, tgycgijoes! Not sure about the red rudders on the inside. Hard to tell with old b/w pictures, but it looks exactly the same as the outside. I like them like they are but will change them if someone knows if they weren't that way.

[Taco]

Just a quick question, In all of the photos there isn't any concerning the B-24D and so why? Sure would like a texture for the B-24D of the Hail Columbia, flown by John Kane. thank you

[Greenhouse357]

Taco, in my case I haven't bought it yet.

[tgycgijoes]

...or Bob lol. Thanks, tgycgijoes! Not sure about the red rudders on the inside. Hard to tell with old b/w pictures, but it looks exactly the same as the outside. I like them like they are but will change them if someone knows if they weren't that way.

There are not many photos of complete aircraft in the air that are not old and far away. Crews mostly took photos with their noseart. The majority that I can CLEARLY see do NOT have red inside rudders. Only the outside of the rudders is painted. That goes also for the other BG's in the 15th AF. The one thing I DID notice in my repainting is that although AAF sent down marking directives, they were interpreted by the Crew Chiefs as to what they meant. Especially for the markings on the tails of the 461st BG. I have a Camouflage Publication quoting the different directives which btw were all text, not illustrated as they are now in the military services for aircraft and vehicles. There are a lot of variations of the tail rectangle markings. If you don't have a clear, definitive photo you are safe to NOT paint the inside of the rudder red. In almost all cases it was not painted. That went for other bomb groups too. I also originally painted the complete horizontal stab on my aircraft all red when in fact it was not until sometime in 1945 so I corrected all my original 10 repaints for the 764th BS. The natural metal ones I DID paint the stab all red as is directed by AAF.

The only photo I find of #24 Tulsa american has no marking at all on the tail just the serial: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75949&stc=1

Here is a nice, clear photo of another aircraft #36: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75950&stc=1 almost all others show no inside paint either. I don't want to be too critical but the layer of your rudder should be the same so that the reds are the same. You can change them since you need to delete the red layers on the inside. Jan Kees has corrected me a lot too and I learned from every correction.

The only photo of #24 Replacement Aircraft above shows no tail markings but this is probably just after it was ferried across. I apologize that I did not notice your all red rudders above but it was late and I was tired; but those are not correct at all. You can see the accurate way to paint the vertical stab and rudders outside only above. What did you use as your reference for how you painted it?

Here are two incorrect profiles from two different sources that are going to mislead a lot of modelers or repainters. That is a BAD thing. Howard Chappelle a past curator of the Smithsonian Institute said that if you can't do it right don't do it to paraphrase him on numerous occassions.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75951&stc=1from Wings Pallette collection. I wonder if some photo they saw in b/w looked like white not red. Jan Kees corrected me on this in a different post for the "Checkertail Clan" of the nose of a P-51 that really looks white but that is a film error from 1944.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75952&stc=1Here, the squares/numbers are reversed. Tail is correct for some aircraft but no definitive photo of Tulsa American with this tail. You can see above that the serial is NOT reversed out on #36 however it is on others.

There are examples of black numbers on natural metal; white squares/black numbers as on #26 Irish Angel/She Wolf that Mike cyul repainted and is above and then white numbers in black squares on a number of different aircraft in different squadrons.

Check this out for all kinds of examples: https://461st.org/765th%20Sqdn/765th_Sqdn.html

[jankees]

Just a quick question, In all of the photos there isn't any concerning the B-24D and so why? Sure would like a texture for the B-24D of the Hail Columbia, flown by John Kane. thank you

Jeansy did a few D's and I did as well, here's a few pics:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49708564138_d380c084ee_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iJzoih)jk5955 (https://flic.kr/p/2iJzoih)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49709421637_8ac3245189_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iJDMcK)jk5954 (https://flic.kr/p/2iJDMcK)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49713802082_528816e4ba_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iK3emE)jk6001 (https://flic.kr/p/2iK3emE)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49731455591_727b7a1448_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iLAH8v)jk6147 (https://flic.kr/p/2iLAH8v)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49757209246_5f7f0510b3_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iNSGN3)jk6326 (https://flic.kr/p/2iNSGN3)

as for Hail Columbia, if you can supply me with good pics of the noseart, I could give it a try?

[Greenhouse357]

Thank you tgycgijoes for all the great info! I had already started working on the rudders to remove the inner red because I hadn't seen that on any other aircraft. Here are the reference pics I was going off of.

https://i.imgur.com/cOmmTG7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JRfD7ue.jpg

[tgycgijoes]

In looking at the actual photo and the illustration, I would think that Tulsa American actually had a really unique rudder and that as i mentioned in the reply above, the old b/w film didn't pick up the red all the time. I can see that whoever did that illustration interpreted it correctly. Remove the inner red and leave the full rudder red as shown. Quite a unique repaint. Nice job on the noseart too. Her crew took a liberty to do the tail as they did. And now I wonder...there are no other 461st BG aircraft with inner rudders painted BUT...neither are there any other aircraft painted with a full red rudder either. You have a real photo, so you make the call.

Richard

[mike_cyul]

Hopefully this isn't too nitpicky, but looking at the photo of Tulsa American, I can see that the red stripes on the US flag on the nose art have become the same shade as the tail (red filter on camera?) but the heavy curved stripe under the "The Tulsa American" is dark. Wouldn't that make it not red? Perhaps blue? I also note that the flag of Tulsa, Oklahoma at that time had blue and white stripes.

Just curious!

[tgycgijoes]

Hopefully this isn't too nitpicky, but looking at the photo of Tulsa American, I can see that the red stripes on the US flag in the nose art have become the same shade as the tail (red filter on camera?) but the heavy curved stripe under the "The Tulsa American" is dark. Wouldn't that make it not red? Perhaps blue?

Just curious. There are some REALLY good photos of the Tulsa American Noseart at the 461st BG Reunion site which has a link in my reply above to check out.

[mike_cyul]

There are some REALLY good photos of the Tulsa American Noseart at the 461st BG Reunion site which has a link in my reply above to check out.

I had a look (thanks!) but didn't see any colour photos?

[tgycgijoes]

I had a look (thanks!) but didn't see any colour photos? There are no color photos that I know of. Check out the two color plates that I found above and see what they did.

[Bomber_12th]

Here is the highest resolution photo of the nose art that I've seen. This nose art was applied to the aircraft at the Tulsa factory, having been the last B-24 built there.

https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44088277_1115131365315787_2206767966349950976_o.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=5ar-BZVuNXUAX-mK5Qj&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&oh=b4ea8b5fec95a4659a5b4437ca2b88de&oe=5EDA0524

The letters would be red on a blue and white background of the scroll (the scroll outlined in black), based on the relationship to the tonal values as seen in the flag, where the red appears darker than the blue. That is the way it is depicted in Bob's repaint, and which I think is accurate.

There was a NOVA special on PBS a while back, about the discovery of the wreck of this aircraft in 2010.

[Greenhouse357]

Hi guys...I think I'm done with it, or at least I'm tired of looking at templates lol. John, I replied to your mail. I actually have 2 color pics of the noseart.

https://i.imgur.com/QMqWpaQ.jpg

[jankees]

It's beautiful!
But I'm missing a bit of red on the fuselage texture, as part of the red bar of the horizontal tail?

[jeansy]

Just a quick question, In all of the photos there isn't any concerning the B-24D and so why? Sure would like a texture for the B-24D of the Hail Columbia, flown by John Kane. thank you


There are a number of Ds previewed here http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/118990-Flight-Replicas-B-24-preview

As jankees has said there already has been a number done

[Greenhouse357]

It's beautiful!
But I'm missing a bit of red on the fuselage texture, as part of the red bar of the horizontal tail?


Thank you very much, Jankees! I see what you mean about the red on the stabilizer and there's other things I still want to work on including polishing up the aluminum a bit. I've downloaded some of your awesome paints and will have a formation shot or two when I'm finished with Tulsa.

[jankees]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49873723432_dbb46c6ab3_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iZaSpj)2020-5-9_10-35-52-930 (https://flic.kr/p/2iZaSpj)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49873723407_fd67817c9d_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iZaSoT)2020-5-9_10-41-3-131 (https://flic.kr/p/2iZaSoT)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49873412856_12966ce541_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iZ9h5y)2020-5-9_10-53-25-642 (https://flic.kr/p/2iZ9h5y)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49873723187_98305d9929_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iZaSk6)2020-5-9_10-56-12-929 (https://flic.kr/p/2iZaSk6)

[wombat666]

There are a number of Ds previewed here http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/118990-Flight-Replicas-B-24-preview

As jankees has said there already has been a number done

Indeed so Matt, but there are all those assembly ships' (and I understand the 'nightmare paintwork' entailed) which seem to have been D models in the main, along with the USMC operated PB4Y (I may stand corrected there).
Not asking for myself, just mentioning a few examples.
:encouragement:

[Greenhouse357]

Oh yeah! I like that Jankees!

[Greenhouse357]

This is my best interpretation of the original photo I posted above. I hope its accurate but don't know for sure. I did find a pic of a 15th AF B-24 with paint on the inside empennages.
https://i.imgur.com/qeSCErL.jpg

Here it is over the island of Vis off the Croatian coast where the real one crashed in the water near the island from battle damage.
https://i.imgur.com/FUIRLH2.jpg

And here she is over Croatia.
https://i.imgur.com/xpHOgAG.jpg

[Bomber_12th]

Those sure look good, Jankees and Bob!

[tgycgijoes]

We repainters try our best to recreate as accurate a representation of an aircraft from 75 years ago from old b/w photos for others to share and to preserve history. That's what it's all about. Great work, hats off to everyone of you. I have been told by what few are left of the "greatest generation" over at the 461st Reunion Group that only the photos don't lie, the books don't always get it right. Just do the best you can and at the end of the day, that is enough. :loyal: BZ all

[Josh Patterson]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49873723432_dbb46c6ab3_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iZaSpj)2020-5-9_10-35-52-930 (https://flic.kr/p/2iZaSpj)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49873723407_fd67817c9d_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iZaSoT)2020-5-9_10-41-3-131 (https://flic.kr/p/2iZaSoT)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49873412856_12966ce541_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iZ9h5y)2020-5-9_10-53-25-642 (https://flic.kr/p/2iZ9h5y)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49873723187_98305d9929_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iZaSk6)2020-5-9_10-56-12-929 (https://flic.kr/p/2iZaSk6) Ha ha! That's close enough to Moby Dick! I'll take it!

[tgycgijoes]

All of the artists who have done such a great job and posted here all symbolize one thing especially today, the sacrifice that these brave men did so that we here and around the world have freedom today to celebrate. A big salute to all of you still with us and your families and an even bigger thank you. :loyal::encouragement: Thank you too to all our men and women in the U.S. Armed Services currently serving and those who have served to protect us.

Here is the banner from the 461st BG (H) that we have tried to memorialize and not forget them. God bless America.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=76465&stc=1

[jankees]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49925955532_400907d052_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j4MzbL)2020-5-23_11-25-16-520 (https://flic.kr/p/2j4MzbL)

[tgycgijoes]

There were a lot more than us Americans fighting to keep the free world free. I found this and thought it was good to share...

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=76468&stc=1

Thank you grandpa

[mike_cyul]

This is my best interpretation of the original photo I posted above. I hope its accurate but don't know for sure. I did find a pic of a 15th AF B-24 with paint on the inside empennages.


Here it is over the island of Vis off the Croatian coast where the real one crashed in the water near the island from battle damage.


And here she is over Croatia.


Great paint and great shots!

[Greenhouse357]

Thank you, Mike! Another great model from you!

[BendyFlyer]

Finally got around to the Liberator. Very skillfully made and amazing detail. Bit of beast to fly - no such thing as cockpit ergonomics in those days. Off to ground school it seems
Well done Mike.

[BendyFlyer]

Note sure whether we need a new thread for paints so I will post here. Is there anybody considering a repaint of the B24 flown by James Stewart when he was at the 455th Bombardment Group before I consider doing one? I understand it was given the name "Nine Yanks and a Jerk" I have only managed to find one or two photographs all black and white although there is a reasonable amount of information about Stewart around on the net. As far as I can tell there was no elaborate nose art. This is the only colour rendition I have been able to find, which is a recent drawing or artwork for a book on the subject:



https://i.imgur.com/FkD7FAp.jpg

Those more expert in these issues may be able to tell me if these are the correct squadron colours and aircraft numbers? I am also staying away from elaborate nose art - bit beyond me at the moment.

[tgycgijoes]

Here are the two films available on youtube links on how to really fly by the AAF book.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO0iSx-ZCAQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mdU9GEvzTo

You can pretty much fly Mike's B-24 D and B-24J "by the book". Practice, practice, practice.

Lastly, here is the "Anatomy Of A Mission" (Group): https://www.b24.net/MissionAnatomy.htm

[MustangL2W]

I believe that Bomber_12th had said something about having interest in doing the B-24's that Jimmy Stewart was associated with. Great picture of "NINE YANKS and A JERK." I have never seen that before.

[jankees]

those look like the right colors for the 445th BG until about April 1944, when it was shot down.
It flew with the 703rd BS, so it probably had large letters 'RN' in grey behind the waist gun windows from March 1944 onwards, possibly with a smaller yellow 'I' as well.

[BendyFlyer]

Jankees - thanks for that. I will go on the hunt for some more pictures for the lettering font types etc now. Not sure if or when I will start but it is in my paint workshop. Need to spend some time getting used to the aeroplane itself.

[Greenhouse357]

Here is the highest resolution photo of the nose art that I've seen. This nose art was applied to the aircraft at the Tulsa factory, having been the last B-24 built there.

https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44088277_1115131365315787_2206767966349950976_o.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=5ar-BZVuNXUAX-mK5Qj&_nc_ht=scontent.ffcm1-2.fna&oh=b4ea8b5fec95a4659a5b4437ca2b88de&oe=5EDA0524

The letters would be red on a blue and white background of the scroll (the scroll outlined in black), based on the relationship to the tonal values as seen in the flag, where the red appears darker than the blue. That is the way it is depicted in Bob's repaint, and which I think is accurate.

There was a NOVA special on PBS a while back, about the discovery of the wreck of this aircraft in 2010.

Hi John and everyone. I just noticed they're showing the TULSAMERICAN NOVA special again tonight on PBS at 9pm Eastern.

[MustangL2W]

Thanks for the Heads Up!!

[Greenhouse357]

You're welcome MustangL2W. I enjoyed watching it again. Sorry for only about an hours notice but its when I first saw it was going to be on.

[Greenhouse357]

Wip. I don't remember if this one has already been done or not.

https://i.imgur.com/KE8a5Hz.jpg

[jankees]

I did do it earlier:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49708563903_564356b446_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iJzoee)jk5964 (https://flic.kr/p/2iJzoee)

[Greenhouse357]

Thanks Jankees, oh well lol.

[Greenhouse357]

Here's another one been working on...

https://i.imgur.com/zul9KH5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yTu9DeQ.jpg

[Greenhouse357]

Couple more...

https://i.imgur.com/WV0kmPZ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hjoIJTE.jpg

[FlyingsCool]

Beautiful. Another area I'm wanting to explore, along with all the '50's Navy stuff I've been working on, is the Operation Torch and the desert campaigns.

[MustangL2W]

Greenhouse357 - Those are gorgeous! Really good to see "Diamond Lil" and especially the Air Force Museum's "Strawberry Bitch" depicted on these terrific models!

[Greenhouse357]

Thank you, guys. I have some tidying up on the paints and will upload them probably this weekend. FlyingsCool, I look forward to your desert campaigns whenever you get to it.

[Greenhouse357]

They have been uploaded.

https://i.imgur.com/t01JYO3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/A5pC0L8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/EpIPHJ9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/WONMVUB.jpg

[SSI01]

Looking forward to the LBG. There is a very poignant story behind the loss of that airplane, how once the gravity of their predicament struck the crew they did not give up hope; a small group continued away from the crash site hoping to reach civilization and bring rescue. They got not much farther before they succumbed to the elements. A doctor contributed to the account I read and described what they must have felt happening to their eyes, and noted their vision fading with each passing day.

Interesting sidelight is the recovered wreckage of the aircraft is, I believe, in Tripoli in Libyan govt custody and can actually be seen in overhead satellite photos, inside a fenced area in pieces next to a building. Maybe one day the NMUSAF can make arrangements to have it brought back to WPAFB. It's one of the most famous B-24s ever.

[Greenhouse357]

I remember reading the story of "Lady Be Good" years ago, very sad. I didn't know the wreck had been recovered, SSI01. It would be nice if it could be brought home.

[FlyingsCool]

What a gorgeous shot looking out over the tail of SB.

How do you get the planes to fly in formation like that?

[Greenhouse357]

Hi FlyingsCool, thank you. It's aitracker X at this site: https://www.lorby-si.com/

[Josh Patterson]

Couple more...

https://i.imgur.com/WV0kmPZ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hjoIJTE.jpg Thank you for doing Diamond Lil (Strawberry Bitch too)! I just wish we could select the glass nose on the C-87 to get a bit closer to CAF's LB-30. (Similar to how we can choose canopies and spinners on A2A's T-6.) Doing it on the D model was the better choice just so you do get the full glazing on the nose.

[Greenhouse357]

Thank you, Josh. The only ones I have are the D and J models.

[USSMiranda]

I just want to take a minute to say THANK YOU to everyone involved with the production of this Liberator.

It is stunning to look at and flies right by the book, and thanks to an extended coronacation, I have logged over 50 hours in it. I have flown it all over the eastern part of the US and even did a transatlantic hop to the UK and back.

Again, thank you so very much. I love it and get lots of enjoyment out of it.

[Sundog]

I just want to take a minute to say THANK YOU to everyone involved with the production of this Liberator.

It is stunning to look at and flies right by the book, and thanks to an extended coronacation, I have logged over 50 hours in it. I have flown it all over the eastern part of the US and even did a transatlantic hop to the UK and back.

Again, thank you so very much. I love it and get lots of enjoyment out of it.

And thanks to all of the re-painters out there for giving us all of these awesome paint jobs! :very_drunk: