Dumb airfile question...

[Rami]

To all,

There's someone who has to know this...

How do you add droptanks to an airfile? I have it in the .dp, but I need to tweak the airfile so that it recognizes and accepts the droptank. How do I go about doing this with AirEd?

Thanks in advance,

[Devildog73]

Rami, It is available indeed.

I have it saved it is line 525 and 526 I think.
I will look and be right back.

sent it in email to you.
could not figure out a screen shot to post here.

[bearcat241]

...How do I go about doing this with AirEd?


In Aired, add 534 for a single ventral tank; add 534 and 535 for dual wing tank config. Copy these from another plane's air file and paste into your target file. Adjust the capacity and offset locations to fit your target's specs.

[Devildog73]

Yeppers Bearcat saved the day.
He is correct, mine is in error.

[Rami]

Okay, I have added the correct fuel capacity in gallons...(600 liter ferry tank)

Now, how do I handle the "offset"?

[bearcat241]

The offsets are the virtual locations (Lat, Vert, Long) of the tank(s) with respect to the dead center '0' reference datum mark of the model. All values are in feet. As capacity directly affects weight, locations affect CoG balance and thus overall performance. Two wing tanks located too far out on the wings will slow roll rate well below historical specs. If located too close in to the centerline, these tanks will have absolutely no realistic affect at all on roll rate.

Your posted offsets look about right for a single ventral tank Rami.

[Rami]

Still not working....dropping the tank doesn't affect the fuel. :crybaby:

What do I need to do?

[Rami]

Bearcat...any chance you can hop on Skype?

[bearcat241]

Still not working....dropping the tank doesn't affect the fuel. :crybaby:


Rami, in my mind that reply can mean several things. Can you be more specific as to exactly what's not working?

If you set up the Fuel tank number as number 5, as it should be based on your pic, then dropping the tank while flying with your panel's selector gauge on "droptanks" should result in an automatic fuel shutoff and kill the engine until you select an internal tank from 1-4. All this assuming you are NOT flying on "auto fuel management" in Settings.

Obviously you won't notice a huge difference in weight performance (this is a retail sim remember), but you will experience a fuel cutoff.

[Rami]

What I mean is that carrying the drop tank does not allow for greater range. On manual fuel management, if you switch to the drop tank, the engines cut out.

[Tango_Romeo]

Still not working....dropping the tank doesn't affect the fuel. :crybaby:

What do I need to do?

...Takeoff with full tanks and the auxilary tank. Fly until your fuel has dropped below 100%....say 98%. Select and drop the tank. If the tank is working, your fuel will read 100% again....since you were burning the auxiliary tank first. :engel016:

[Rami]

I flew the exact same mission with and without the drop tank. It cuts out at the same point in the mission. This tells me that the drop tank is not working. If it were, I would have plenty of fuel left.

Tango....I tried that, no effect.

[Dirtman]

1) I didn't know air files were dumb.

2) I'd add tanks to the plane .... didn't know an air file needed fuel!



........77082

[bearcat241]

...Takeoff with full tanks and the auxilary tank. Fly until your fuel has dropped below 100%....say 98%. Select and drop the tank. If the tank is working, your fuel will read 100% again....since you were burning the auxiliary tank first. :engel016:

Doesn't work that way TR...In auto fuel mgmt mode, the sim code burns the primary internal tank first (usually number 1) then moves down the line, unless you select the drop tank which interrupts this sequence and prioritizes the DT. Internal auxillary tanks are always touched after internal primaries are depleted.

[bearcat241]

Did you disable AFM Rami?

[Tango_Romeo]

Doesn't work that way TR.

...how droptanks work. Rami said droptanks, not auxiliary internal tanks, or did I read something wrong? :isadizzy:

[Rami]

Well, the drop tank works, but it does not extend the range when warping from Alexandria to Malta. You still run out of fuel at the exact same spot...about 70 miles ESE of Malta.

The easiest way to explain it is that I can USE the drop tank, but it doesn't count as part of the total fuel volume when I warp from one waypoint to another.

If I were to switch it to Bruce Thorson's P-40c conversion, after warping to Sidi Barrani, my fuel level, with drop tank included, is at 85%. If I were to RELEASE the drop tank, my fuel level in the HUD jumps up to 99%, indicating that I am now running on internal fuel.

This "reset" does not exist in the Beaufighter, which tells me that although I can SELECT and USE the drop tank, using it does not increase my total FUEL VOLUME when warping.

[Tango_Romeo]

You start on your droptanks, but you have to drop them manually to get back to the mains. That won't happen automatically when you warp.

BUT the big question is are you talking about with AFM on or off?

And I have all my UNKNOWNs in 534 set at 2. Got a couple of dozen airplanes flying around out there with working droptanks???????

AT ANY RATE, I hope you get it sorted. Didn't mean to butt in....I'm swearing-off.

[bearcat241]

We got it sorted on Skype...he's good to go :woot:

[Rami]

Bearcat...I updated that post. :redf:

Sorry, a little unnecessary confusion on my part. I'm still having trouble. :banghead:

I put in a help flyer to Peperez, he's the architect of the new aircraft.cfg and airfile.

[Tango_Romeo]

If I were to switch it to Bruce Thorson's P-40c conversion, after warping to Sidi Barrani, my fuel level, with drop tank included, is at 85%. If I were to RELEASE the drop tank, my fuel level in the HUD jumps up to 99%, indicating that I am now running on internal fuel.

That's your point of confusion. When you are on droptanks, the gauge is only reading those tanks. When you are on internal tanks, the gauge is reading only those. You don't have a 'fuel totalizer' gauge in this plane.

But you don't have a problem....with droptanks you automatically start on those in the mission. At a planned WP after a WARP, drop the tanks and automatically going to 100% in your internal tanks. That's how it works in the real world too.

[bearcat241]

Think i found it Rami...record 505 No Automix - Always Automix is set to "yes" = 1...set to "no" = 0

This is essential when flying in manual fuel mgmt mode.

[hewman100]

Now you know what you're doing the wing droptanks you ordered should be no trouble at all.:gossip:

[peperez]

Okay, I have added the correct fuel capacity in gallons...(600 liter ferry tank)

Now, how do I handle the "offset"?

The only Beaufighter to rarely use EXTERNAL tanks was the Mk.10, unavaible at the Malta crisis. They use the 1C type, one 1F with a 50 imperial gallon installed at the fuselage floor. After that, they modified the plane to get two wing INTERNAL tanks instead of the machine guns, a modification VERY used at the Mk.10. To be historically acurate, the mission must respect this limitation. One must know how to manage his fuel to get the mission accomplished how the original pilots did. If you wish, I can put the tank and assures that the plane will get its destination IF THE FUEL will be well manage. I think is a lot better than put unrealistic external fuel loads.

Cheers

Pepe

[Rami]

Peperez,

That won't be necessary. I'll make the adjustment myself. Thanks to everyone for all the help!

[Rami]

It now works, I went with two slipper (30 gallon) tanks, which fix nicely next to the engine nacelles. The aircraft will not be long now!

[Tango_Romeo]

It now works, I went with two slipper (30 gallon) tanks, which fix nicely next to the engine nacelles. The aircraft will not be long now!

...just tell us in now works and runoff without any explanation! :isadizzy: :faint:

[Rami]

Tango,

Okay...

I added left and right drop tanks to the airfile, cheating a tad to make the drop tanks 40 gallons instead of 30. This gives you the range to get to Malta!

My hunch was the 600 liter drop tank was being treated as a weapon. It was not physically attached to the aircraft itself, rather it was slung under like a torpedo.

Perhaps the drop tanks need to be attached to the aircraft itself? That's my working theory.

[Tango_Romeo]

....and I would agree totally with your theory. Droptanks must be mounted directly to a hardpoint. That's why they all have built-in pylons. :engel016:

Good show! :ernae:

[bearcat241]

Perhaps the drop tanks need to be attached to the aircraft itself? That's my working theory.

That ventral 600L tank was also attached to a hardpoint underneath, which corresponded with the hardpoint of the torpedo rack you used. If you replace that rack with a standard belly or wing-type pylon, you can test the "pylon and tank" theory better for future reference. That's a secondary consideration...

I think understand the primary gist of what you're saying here is that any droptank may need to be attached directly to a mountpoint on the model itself and not slung on a rack or pylon...can't say i agree with that based on my work with dp's, droptanks and air files. Did you also look into that record 505 entry i mentioned?

[Rami]

Bearcat,

Yes I did. It didn't have much of an effect, if any.

[Tango_Romeo]

....that for flawless operation... you attach droptanks only to hardpoints that are dedicated to them, even if they are very close to other existing hardpoints. And the coordinates of these hardpoints be used in the AIR file for tank locations. :kilroy:

[dvslats]

Hi all, Been watching his thread seeing what the results would come to. Reason being a few months back I tried to help steve1956 get a working drop tank on his mz-c6n1. The historical placement was the belly, several inches offset to starboard. What we were working with;
wep_pylon_ja_cl
wep_kw_jp_600l_tank / Rami's Tank?
The problem was...once the tank and pylon were offset from C/L by -0.150 the tank ceased to function !? No fuel, no selection, no drop. Put it back on C/L again...then everything was fine. Fully functional in all aspects. Was thinking .bgl, some yet undiscovered air file entry,..fuel gauge selector :ques: Thought I would ask while everyone's air file brain cells were still warm. :icon_lol: I'm totally stumped.

[bearcat241]

...
The problem was...once the tank and pylon were offset from C/L by -0.150 the tank ceased to function !? No fuel, no selection, no drop. Put it back on C/L again...then everything was fine. Fully functional in all aspects. Was thinking .bgl, some yet undiscovered air file entry,..fuel gauge selector :ques: Thought I would ask while everyone's air file brain cells were still warm. :icon_lol: I'm totally stumped.

Another code limitation :cool:...a single droptank entry in the airfile is interpreted by the sim engine as a true '0' C/L ventral tank. Move it in any lateral direction and its no longer considered ventral (go figure who's idea that was) and therefore is invalid as a single installation which could negatively affect the natural balance of the FDE. Think outside the box...the best cheat is to install a right tank also on the opposite offset of the lefty, theoretically restoring balance. Now you have a virtual dual tank config that the sim can't argue with, even if you never use the righty. But you don't have to make an additional mountpoint in the dp for the righty unless you get the itch to use it for whatever reasons.

[dvslats]

The FDE...the reason it wanted to be nothing else but on 0. :angryfir: Lousy...xxxx
Well, followed your pointers and it worked!! At first I set the second bogus entry with only 2 gallons but when the tank was armed and dropped, it would always lose the phantom first, or the one with the least amount of fuel. therefore the engine would keep running on what was still in the other external tank. So in the end they both held equal amounts..a /2 of the original tank quantity. If your flying with no AFM...it works just fine. Nice solution BC. :amen:

[Rami]

Thanks for the help, but I did have an ulterior motive here...:costumes:

I've been encouraging members and myself to post threads like this in an effort to rebuild the forum database that was lost in the crash. Topics like these will help do just that. :woot:

[Tango_Romeo]

Thanks for the help, but I did have an ulterior motive here...:costumes:

I've been encouraging members and myself to post threads like this in an effort to rebuild the forum database that was lost in the crash. Topics like these will help do just that. :woot:

....Machiavelli too. Wheels within wheels behind that bland expression. :whistle:

BUT it is the truth....if you've been around CFS2 since the beginning, you've probably forgotten more details about the sim than you currently remember. The loss of the database was crippling. :kilroy:

[achim27619]

just an idea

did you ever try to put two drop tanks into the airfile (like the P-38), set them up to your linking (very close together) and make the one you don' t use almost empty?
And put only one drop tank available in the dp file?

Cheers

Achim

[bearcat241]

just an idea

did you ever try to put two drop tanks into the airfile (like the P-38), set them up to your linking (very close together) and make the one you don' t use almost empty? And put only one drop tank available in the dp file?

Great idea Achim...i shoulda thought of that (see my last post above).
:whistle:

Hey, you don't have to empty the dud tank in the air file. The sim only loads droptank weight and range increase to the FDE when you actually load a tank in the dp loadout selections. So if you load one tank in the dp, you only get the weight and range increase of that one tank. When you fly a droptank-equipped model with no droptanks selected, the droptank fuel weight in the air file is not factored to the gross loaded weight of the a/c...only when you load a tank.