Early Messerschmitt Bf109 B, C and D in progress.

[Shessi]

Hi Folks,
Just thought of giving you some sneaky peaks of what's next, see my other post as well.

This is a beaut of an early Me, a Bf 109B. There will be an early B1, a late B1, a C1 and a D1. Loads of texs to go with them. Been working on these for a while, but still some way to go.

The Berta, Ceasar and Dora has never been done for Fs2004 before, well Scrubby did a B-C but nothing like this!...;)

Will be for Fs9, CFS2 and alright then, if we must, FSX as well.

Update soon.

Cheers

Shessi

[Priller]

Hi Shessi,

Would that be FSX native? reason I ask is because I, as so many others, fly P3D v4.x and models that are not FSX native will not work in the sim.

But this is brilliant news for most simmers!!

Cheers,

Priller

[Naismith]

Oh yes looking forward to the B. (FSX of course, 9 at a push) :applause:

Scrub did a B many years ago but seem to recall it was very unstable to the point of being unflyable in FSX.

[huub vink]

Great choice Shessi :encouragement: But be careful Bf109s can become very addictive :biggrin-new:

Cheers,
Huub

[Shessi]

Pips, Sorry no. I don't use P3D but I can't believe you can't use FSX ac in P3D??

N, hopefully getting it looking good in all the sims...even FSX..Ha!

H,.....hmmmm....;)

Shessi

[Priller]

Pips, Sorry no. I don't use P3D but I can't believe you can't use FSX ac in P3D??

N, hopefully getting it looking good in all the sims...even FSX..Ha!

H,.....hmmmm....;)

Shessi

Hi Shessi,

Native FSX models can indeed be used in the 64 bit version of P3D (v4.x). The only problem is the .gau files. If the gauges are xml though, they can be used.

But if the model is native, we can always swap out the gauges!

Cheers,

priller

[TARPSBird]

Gotta get out my Luftwaffe flight gear again. Now where did I put my Knight's Cross...? :biggrin-new:

[HorusJ]

Shessi,you have my full attention!:redfire::applause:

[rgatkinson]

Wow, this is great news. Looking forward to flying this beauty.

Cheers

Taff

[Scale Dail]

Great! Long live FS2004!

[mav]

Just one question.... do they come with cup holders???:encouragement:



Cheers mav

[Shessi]

Hi Folks,
Getting there.......:running:

Still a fair bit to do. The gauges in the pics are static (but looks good doesn't it?!), working cockpit VC will be populated with working gauges, ac with plenty of ani's and some high quality tex being done as we speak!

And....YES...it does Mav, but only on the De Luxe model...lol ;)

Cheers

Shessi

[huub vink]

Nice! But white wall tires on a German aircraft? :banghead:. And the green mug is wrong.... The "B" from Bf stands for "Bayerische" (Bavarian). So the mug should look like this!

https://www.steincenter.com/stein/pc/catalog/01-40-101L.jpg

Prost!!!

Huub

[Mick]

Nice! But white wall tires on a German aircraft?

I've seen photos of WW2 German aircraft with white wall tires. The image that pops into my mind from books read many years ago is of Fw.190s on the eastern front.

I don't suppose it was done for style. Maybe something to do with the unnatural color of ersatz rubber???

[wombat666]

I've seen photos of WW2 German aircraft with white wall tires. The image that pops into my mind from books read many years ago is of Fw.190s on the eastern front.

I don't suppose it was done for style. Maybe something to do with the unnatural color of ersatz rubber???


Good point Mick.
Even today certain types of rubber takes on a light grey and eventually a whitish caste as it oxidises over time.
Or perhaps the units were just white walling the tyres as an elitist thing.
:devilish:

[SSI01]

IIRC Captain Sim's F-104 has tires that have a grayish cast to them.

[gaucho_59]

Nice! But white wall tires on a German aircraft? :banghead:. And the green mug is wrong.... The "B" from Bf stands for "Bayerische" (Bavarian). So the mug should look like this!

https://www.steincenter.com/stein/pc/catalog/01-40-101L.jpg

Prost!!!

Huub

I don't understand... what mug are you talking about???
G.

[Shessi]

Ha ha ha...you ol' spotters you, damn white wall tyres and cup holders are the main talking points....ha ha. You'll be asking me about the ashtray next!

I've got to admit I'm partial to the ww tyres on this, BUT I've not seen any pics of early 109's with them on, soooo I think they'll have to go...or........if someone knows better...;)

G and Huub, the green mug is a cup-holder, and is actually based on a can of VB (Aussie Victoria Bitter), it's because Mav asked if it had a cup holder (see previous post) and when I did the Me410 I put one in it for him, just a chuckle and of course will not be modelled (only because I'm not doing the De Luxe model...:biggrin-new:).

Anyhoo onwards and upwards.....to the stars and..(OMG 50yrs, I remember sitting in front of a b&w tv as a youngster..watching it from about 2ft away, finding it completely fascinating..fantastic).

Cheers

Shessi

[Naismith]

Looking really good. :jump:

[gaucho_59]

Ha ha ha...you ol' spotters you, damn white wall tyres and cup holders are the main talking points....ha ha. You'll be asking me about the ashtray next!

I've got to admit I'm partial to the ww tyres on this, BUT I've not seen any pics of early 109's with them on, soooo I think they'll have to go...or........if someone knows better...;)

G and Huub, the green mug is a cup-holder, and is actually based on a can of VB (Aussie Victoria Bitter), it's because Mav asked if it had a cup holder (see previous post) and when I did the Me410 I put one in it for him, just a chuckle and of course will not be modelled (only because I'm not doing the De Luxe model...:biggrin-new:).

Anyhoo onwards and upwards.....to the stars and..(OMG 50yrs, I remember sitting in front of a b&w tv as a youngster..watching it from about 2ft away, finding it completely fascinating..fantastic).

Cheers

Shessi

Precisely, I thought it was a can of bitters... the Huub comes out with the picture of a mug????:encouragement:
G.

PS: Did you see the panel for the Alf I started?

[Hurricane91]

Beautiful Shessi.:encouragement:

[huub vink]

Now it gets even more confusing, I didn't recognise the Victoria Bitter beer can as I though most beer cans have a bare aluminium top.But what does Australian beer in aluminium has to do with a pre-war German aircraft? I always though the aluminium drink can was invented in the late 50-ties or early 60-ties.

As Germany was depending on import for rubber, by 1940 more than half of all German tires were already made of BuNa kautschuk! As far as I know these tires were black with a slight purple glow over them. I have seen quite some pictures from WWII German aircraft in my life, but I can not recall I ever saw one with white wall tires.

Below a BuNa tire from a Bf110.

Cheers,
Huub

https://modellboard.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=34rj9qnc8fvo6i5vdh5gb1cn51&action=dlattach;topic=51946.0;attach=80277;image

[rgatkinson]

What about this, fake?

https://images.app.goo.gl/yQ5JuHNUaVxhHWSk8

Taff

[Shessi]

Ha ha Taff, I knew someone would find something.

That's on an E Trop model, so not an early B/C model, but still proves ww tyres were about and used operationally!

Cheers

Shessi

[huub vink]

What about this, fake?

https://images.app.goo.gl/yQ5JuHNUaVxhHWSk8

Taff

Hi Taff,

The answer is already given in the britmodellers thread. The tires were either whitewashed, or covered with dust or dried mud. That is not exactly what I call a white wall tire.

When you think about the problems the Germans already had to face as they didn't have any natural rubber, why would they put any effort in a purely cosmetic thing as a white wall?


That's on an E Trop model, so not an early B/C model, but still proves ww tyres were about and used operationally!

Yep proof has been delivered that high contrast black & white picture are tricky things :a1310:

Common guys you really need to do better than this :biggrin-new:
(Now don't come up with a snow covered tire)

Cheers,
Huub

[Shessi]

How about this then Huub...:a1310::a1310:

Closer I think, certainly a Bf109, operational, no mud or snow, AND in colour...


I don't know, tyres were made out of more rubber than today's 'hoops', and rubber oxidises in high UV and heat, changing colour and sheen. Taff's b&w 109E looks too uniform to be wear or colour/shade different to me, this colour pic could be ww tyres and this b&w pic well hmmmm???......look you've got me at it now!!! :banghead:

Are we this sad, us going on about ww tyres, I'm laughing just typing this..lol

I'll tell you what, I'll put both tyre texs in the release and you can choose.

Cheers

Shessi

[huub vink]

Personally I think the weather is ideal to discuss a light topic as white wall tires (yesterday we did hit 40 Celsius/140 Fahrenheit). It at least keeps my mind occupied, so I don't think about the heat.

Your colour picture is from the same thread at britmodeller, so what I said in my previous post applies here as well. :a1310:

During WWII nearly all German tires were synthetic. The aircraft tires were made from BuNa-S compound (Styrol-Butadien-Kautschuk). Where Bu stands for Butadiene (the polumer) and the Na stand for Natrium (Sodium) (the Catalysis). In 1940 already 70 percent of all tires were made of synthetic rubber, this increased already to 94% in 1943 and by 1944 Germany was fully depending on synthetic rubber.
From what I have understood these tires discoloured when exposed to UV and turned into a sort of purpelish shade of grey.

Cheers,
Huub

Did you know the British had white rims on the rear wheels and light grey tires on their Jeeps as well? :biggrin-new: :biggrin-new:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/1942Jeep.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1942Jeep.jpg

[llanning08]

Perhaps the answer is that tires exposed to sunlight constantly deteriorate, called "dry rot". This may be more pronounced in synthetic rubber lacking additive to protect from sun damage found in modern tires. This would tend occur more quickly in desert environments and with aircraft parked outdoors. Dry rot results in fading from black to gray and lighter. By painting the tires with more a reflective white paint, the damage would be reduced.

Hence, not true "white walls", but the white paint still appearing in old photos to be "white walls".

Just thinking ...

[Mick]

Perhaps the answer is that tires exposed to sunlight constantly deteriorate, called "dry rot". This may be more pronounced in synthetic rubber lacking additive to protect from sun damage found in modern tires. This would tend occur more quickly in desert environments and with aircraft parked outdoors. Dry rot results in fading from black to gray and lighter. By painting the tires with more a reflective white paint, the damage would be reduced.

Hence, not true "white walls", but the white paint still appearing in old photos to be "white walls".

Just thinking ...

You might be onto something there.

[aeronca1]

The North African sand is very different from the sand we "Northerners" know. It is very, very fine. It gets onto and into everything. That 109 looks like very dusty sides only. The bottoms look darker due to the "scuffing" effect while taking off and landing. The sun angle also enters the fray. I would say it is a synthetic tire used if a very dusty environment plain and simple. The WW effect is imagination only. :biggrin-new:

[huub vink]

Well perhaps a tiny bit back to the original subject.... There are many pictures from Condor Legion Bf109s with covered wheels. Sun/heat might have been a problem for these relatively small and narrow tires.

Cheers,
Huub

https://i.imgur.com/i63cjKk.jpg

[jamminjames]

Can't wait for these!

[rgatkinson]

Nope, I think the covers were put there to stop the ground crew realising that the WW finish had faded and needed reapplying. The pilot, Otto von Dunlop, obviously had a dislike of WW tyres! :mixed-smiley-010:

[huub vink]

Sorry Taff,
Although I'm not allowed to go into politics, but in this case you force me to. The Germans were strictly "Continental (AG)" when it came to tires :a1310:.
And the pilot of this aircraft was not Otto van Dunlop, But Unteroffizier Johannes Schwarzreif :wavey:

Below a preview of the VC of this model, Shessi already mailed me. Its of course still "work in progress", so the strange labels will most likely disappear.

Cheers,
Huub

https://i.imgur.com/HvUlqVC.jpg

[rgatkinson]

Ooooh, that VC looks very nice. Plenty of room for a small can of white paint and brush to be stored.:jump: Seriously though, very very nice work!

[Shessi]

It's close...can you smell it?

(And Taff that's a 109 cockpit photo not a VC, I don't want you to think that's what you're getting!!)

With the testers as we speak.


Shessi

[huub vink]

Ooooh, that VC looks very nice. Plenty of room for a small can of white paint and brush to be stored.:jump: Seriously though, very very nice work!

Sorry Taff,

Perhaps I should have given a warning, but its better not to believe everything said in this thread :biggrin-new:. The Picture in my previous post is actually a picture from the Flying Heritage Collection Bf109 E-3. Which is pretty original, but which has obviously been upgraded to Bf109 E-4 standard :encouragement:.

Cheers,
Huub

[mav]

True Huub... you can't believe everything in this thread.... but these early bf109's "DID" come with airbags!!! :playful:


Cheers mav

[rgatkinson]

What! No VC? I smell a whitewash :a1310:

[Shessi]

Dohhh....I was just saying for you not to expect THAT quality of VC in the picture, of course there will be a VC, I'm not a complete heathen you know! :playful:

And coz I like em as well, there's one of the textures I'm including with ww tyres on!...:encouragement:, but sssshhh don't tell Huub...;)

Cheers

Shessi

[huub vink]

Daimler Benz powered objects with white wall tires look like this! Nice, but they don't fly (depending on your definition of flying....)
(Could't find anything decent, with tires like this, powered by a JuMo engine)

Cheers,
Huub

https://p8.storage.canalblog.com/83/88/119589/66773745_p.jpg

[Motormouse]

Sorry to burst your collective bubbles,
but the white sidewalls on the German tyres were a visual
indicator that the tyre was constructed to be electrically conductive, to discharge on touchdown static electricity charges built up in flight. Important as some bombs were electrically armed... and you wouldn't want to connect one up to an aeroplane unless you were sure no stray static charges were likely to be present.

Discussion about these tyres on ww2aircraft. net

Dunlop were marketing ECTA (electrically conductive) tyres in mid 1930's btw, nowadays, all aircraft tyres by construction are electrically conductive so we don't have to have them specifically marked (the carbon content of rubber compound is what makes them conductive).

Edit : make that Tailwheel tyres, mainwheel tyres had painted white walls to protect them in a hot environment, stipulated by D. (luft) T. 2109 part 9F

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/marseilles-bf-109s.23088/post-798777

Ttfn

Pete

(Resident fixer of aeroplanes)

[HorusJ]

Poor Shessi. :sorrow: Your 109 has become the most controversial FS9 aircraft to date. :biggrin-new:

Very much looking forward too it!:encouragement:

J

[Motormouse]

Poor Shessi. :sorrow: Your 109 has become the most controversial FS9 aircraft to date. :biggrin-new:

Very much looking forward too it!:encouragement:

J

Indeed, but no controversy at all, its the continuous learning curve we are on as more and more things become unclassified as the years go by.

Ttfn

Pete

[huub vink]

Thanks for your clarification Pete. You learn something new every day here!

As the Bf109 couldn't carry bombs until the Bf109 E-4B version, there was no need for conductive tires until this version. But am I the only one who thinks its a bit complex to use conductive tires instead of an ordinary metal strip?

Cheers,
Huub

[Motormouse]

Thanks for your clarification Pete. You learn something new every day here!

As the Bf109 couldn't carry bombs until the Bf109 E-4B version, there was no need for conductive tires until this version. But am I the only one who thinks its a bit complex to use conductive tires instead of an ordinary metal strip?

Cheers,
Huub

Don't you just ... I'm guessing for ease of procurement that there was a standard issue tailwheel tyre used across several different
types / manufacturers and it was easier to specify use tyre X in all the manuals than specifying different tyres for different models ...
hence conductive tailwheel tyres are seen on models as diverse as Ju52 and Fieseler Storch, to Ju88 and Me109

ttfn

Pete

[huub vink]

It's close...can you smell it?

It becomes smellier every day..... :biggrin-new: