Bump maps and textures

[mongoose]

1. If I was able to make a bump map using Gimp, I assume I would base it on the dds textures files. Once I had achieved that, what would I do with the bump map? Need a tutorial on that.

2. Textures. I assume making a 2018 texture is not just a question of changing the texture from 1024 to 2048?

[mongoose]

No one?:wavey:

[MajorMagee]

Once you have a file in the proper Bump Map Format you need to save it with the .+nm suffix, and place it in the aircraft's texture folder (it will actually work from anywhere, but this keeps it organized).
For example:
n1k2RS_1.dds gets n1k2RS_1.+nm.dds added.

If you draw a new texture if can be any square size multiple starting from 2. 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, etc. When you save the bitmap as a dds there are a number of different dds compressed and uncompressed formats, with and without LOD textures to choose from. If you don't have it automatically generate the LODs for you the DDS will remain square, otherwise it will become a 2x1 rectangle. If the bitmap as boundaries with sharp contrasts you may notice ugly stair-step color artifacts with the compressed file modes in the sizes below 2048.

[mongoose]

I'll have a go!

[mongoose]

OK I am having trouble with the bump mapping as can be seen from my thread on the gimp forum here

https://www.gimp-forum.net/Thread-bump-mapping?pid=9311#pid9311

One guy insists I need the original layered texture files or make new ones myself (not happening or ? necessary)
The other guy rich2005 is more helpful, but obiously I am doing something wrong. For a start I don't seem to be able to overlay one layer on another although I can merge them.

Any help or step by step instruction would be appreciated. Also I don'r see how I can use the same bump map with all the (same) aircraft unless I am meant to just save a file which is texture non specific.

[BorekS]

well, the final result depends hows the current final texture skin. GIMP, Paint.NET, PhotoShop or whatelse bitmap editor or any special tool with bump/normal map procedures just makes the paint areas bumpy from the original texture, so:

if you have just the end-user skin with various camouflage patterns, decals, markings etc. they would become bumpy too. in another words, you will need to remove (retouche) such areas from the skin first and then generate the bump/normal map. or you can edit the generated bump/normal map later and retouche the problematic areas there.

if you have a layered texture source, you can save a lot time / to avoid of the retouche edits ;)

[mongoose]

Well I am looking at Fouteman's aircraft updates but AFAIK he has lost all origianls as he asked me for copies of the aircraft. I am wondering if Andy has the originals for his bump mapping? What you are implying is that I would have to make a texture with just the rivets and any indented parts?:wiggle:

[BorekS]

What you are implying is that I would have to make a texture with just the rivets and any indented parts?:wiggle:
exactlly. rivets, panel lines, gun holes, that should be the right source for the bumpmap.

[mongoose]

:banghead: So... Andy are you doing the hard way or only on ac which you have the full texture file layers?

[MajorMagee]

The hard way, but in some cases I can use PhotoShop to manipulate the *_s.dds file, if there is one, to get what I need.

[mongoose]

Well the s.dds is grey scale; is that easier?

[MajorMagee]

That depends on if it was purpose built with just the panel lines and shading, or if it was simply done as the standard texture converted to grey scale.

[mongoose]

Getting quickly back to this; what aircraft are uploaded with bump mapping? Dan's Fw190s?? Need an example for someone.

EDIT

Never mind I think I have got the Fw190s +nm files.

[Foute Man]

perhaps this is the best place to post this request, but could you please help me out with a step by step crash course on how to make bump textures?

this is what i understood so far:

the bump texture is an extra texture file for your aircraft. no need to mess with other files like the m3d file. the bump texure has the same name as the "normal" texture, but with suffix .+nm.dds. = myaircraft_t.dds and myaircraft_t.+nm.dds

1 - so the normal/usual myaircraft_t.dd file and myaircraft_s.dds can still be in the format i'm used to saving them (dxt 1 opaque)? so no chances here?

i've loaded my template in my usual editor, made a greyscale version of my base color with my panel and rivets layer. panel in darker shade than base layer for "depression". rivets in lighter shade for "elevation". saved this as a single layer 24 bit bitmap (full colour, no alpha channel) and loaded in gimp
in gimp i run the generate normalmap filter, was able to see elevation and depression in 3d preview and after clicking ok the greyscale image turned "blue" and elevation and depression visible.

2 - so far so good (isn't it???), but so what comes next????

[BorekS]

Blue one is the good one.
Now just put it where the original airplane texture / skin is and rename the blue dds file with the +nm convention. Run the game and set Ankors Shaders on. Thats all in base.

[AnKor]

Yes, as BorekS said, you can use "blue" 24/32 bit dds texture as is. BTW, it is not even necessary to place it in the same folder as aircraft, but it is a good practice.

However uncompressed texture will be huge.
Ordinary DXT compression is not suitable for these textures, but you can save it using ATI2 compression.
There should be many tools to do this, but I like AMD Compressonator 1.50 for its simplicity. There are newer versions, but they look confusing.
I can't find it on AMD site anymore, so here I uploaded it:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvmtwF9vPtwVgZJa4JbYOlzTFEYmTQ

It can also generate nice mip-maps with a lot of options.


And just to avoid confusion "aircraft_t.dds" is technically called "diffuse map". Calling it "normal texture" is ambiguous, because what you are creating for bump mapping is technically a "normal map" (where "normal" is a vector) :)

[BorekS]

to the bumpmap/normal map creation I would have my 2c:

I am using such features for years and tested many bitmap tools to create the "common" DDS and the "bumpy" DDS files. latest few years I am totally happy with Paint.NET (free) + two related plug-ins, it does it all in a few clicks. my common DDS are DXT1 no alpha, DXT1 1bit alpha, or DXT5 for smooth (linear) transparent gradients, works perfect at all my race game add-ons (http://simgarage.nolimit.cz/) and same with CFS3. it also does products much less of the awfull pixel aterfacts doe the DDS file comperssion algorythm, comparing to the other tools.

I just wanted to say there is no need to use the GIMP moloch or the PhotoShop monster software with their oversofisticated user interface for such work.

[MajorMagee]

The Nvidia Tool in PhotoShop lets you save the normal map in either DXT5 or 3Dc compression formats.

[Foute Man]

thanks for the replies and the tools:

so some more questions as i've been reading some tutorials about bump mapping, but they're all written for other games, so here some (stupid) follow up questions:

how to export in gimp:

- create mipmaps and export file as a dds in any format. to get it working in cfs 3 i need to compress the dds file with a tool like The Compressonator 1.50 and save the file as a dxt5 image, but what subtype of dxt5?

- some tutorials for fsx suggest opening the file exported with gimp in modelconverterx and convert it to fs format. i also need to flip the bitmap. do i need to convert the file in modelconverterx and do i need to flip the texture?

untill so far i made the myaircraft_s.dds file always a bit lighter than their original greyscale. do i need to darken the myaircrafft_s.dds file or is there no relationship between the two?

as i do not have the ankor shader installed, i noticed a lot of uploads with different dates? do i need to download and install all of them, or is the upload with the latest date the most up to date versions of all required files?

[mongoose]

Further to Ton's

We have tried 2 versions of bump maps; onr in the MediaFire link and one here. I also have added pics from the 1st bump map but basically the same as the 2nd.

Now as one rotates around the aircraft one gets the "blue" or washed-out effect which almost looks like a specular issue to me; proably nothing to do with that!

So the ? is what's wrong?

63887 the first .+nm


below contains the 2nd

http://www.mediafire.com/file/c88dxghpz1o28j6/105_bump_maps.rar/file



http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63885&stc=163887

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63886&stc=1

[Foute Man]

Further to Ton's

We have tried 2 versions of bump maps; onr in the MediaFire link and one here. I also have added pics from the 1st bump map but basically the same as the 2nd.

Now as one rotates around the aircraft one gets the "blue" or washed-out effect which almost looks like a specular issue to me; proably nothing to do with that!

So the ? is what's wrong?

63887 the first .+nm


below contains the 2nd

http://www.mediafire.com/file/c88dxghpz1o28j6/105_bump_maps.rar/file



63887



the rar files are the same, attached the second nm file, also the others textures

[MajorMagee]

You only need the latest AnKor Shader install package.

The _s file appears to be too light leading to excessive reflectivity. For a painted aircraft the average _s brightness should be in 5-8% gray range. For bare aluminum it can be 10-16%.

What's important about the starting image when creating a +nm file is the relative range of brightness values, and not how dark or light the average value is. A big variation will make the dips and bumps stand out more. A narrow range will make the effect more subtle and flat.

When checking the result of your +nm file, start with getting the base texture, and _s file to look the way you want first. Then add the +nm, and look at it from a variety of different angles and lighting conditions. The normal mapping effect is dependent on reflected light to show itself, and you may not be able to see it at all sometimes, even if it's working correctly.

[AnKor]

I've downloaded the bfe105_3.+nm.dds file and I see the problem - it is in DXT5 format, but it should not be.

Let me explain step by step how you should do it with Compressonator 1.50:

- Start with "blue-magenta" image in 24 bit BMP, not compressed in any way.
- Open it with the compressonator
- First, click "Generate Mips" in the toolbar (the label to the left of this button says "Box-Filter", it can be changed, but I think the default one is ok for normal maps)
- After that, click "Compress" (the label to the left of compress should say "ATI 3Dc Compression" - this is what we need)
- In the new window choose "ATI2N" (second option) and click "Compress"
- The tool will show 3 smaller windows: Original texture on the left, Difference in the middle and Compressed on the right.
- You should visually check that Original and Compressed look almost the same and Difference is black.
- In the menu click File -> Save Compressed and save your new texture as "+nm.dds"

That's it.
You don't have to flip the bitmap in any way, swap any color channels or do anything else.

ATI2N is a special compression format, developed specifically for normal maps. It wasn't standard in DX9, but became standard in DX10 (albeit with a different name) and thus all GPUs made in last 10+ years support it.

The above is enough, but here is some extra info if you are interested. I don't want to confuse anyone with too much information :)
The problem with DXT5 compression and normal maps is that DXT5 introduces crosstalk between color channels. While this is usually not noticeable for ordinary textures, it causes artifacts for normals.
The trick to avoid the crosstalk is to move one of two required color channels into the alpha channel. It was first used in Doom 3 I think. It is supported by my shaders and as I understand it is used by FSX as well: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=Normal_map_creation
However for ATI2 you do NOT need to do it, and ATI2 provides better quality than using this DX5 trick while file size is the same.

Finally, you can just save the DDS texture without any compression. Something like 24-bit RGB or whatever it is called. This is also supported by my shaders, but the DDS file will obviously be larger than a compressed one.

So, in summary:
My shaders support 3 types of "+nm" textures.
- 3Dc ATI2 - good quality, created with compressonator, or NVidia tools for Photoshop, or whatever other tool can do this.
- DXT5 with Alpha "trick" - ok quality, almost any tool can save DXT5, but you have to move red color channel into alpha somehow.
- Uncompressed DDS - best quality, but large file. The file must contain 3 color channels for normal map.

One more thing.
If you are creating an "extra" specular map specifically for my shaders (+sr.dds) you can save it in ATI1N format (also available in compressonator). This is special format for grayscale images and provides better quality than DXT1. However it is NOT supported for standard "_s" textures for CFS3.

Hope it helps :)

[BorekS]

hmm, I really wonder how soooo easy thing like dds textures and its normal maps you can achieve so compliacted way. I have to laugh.

[AnKor]

BorekS, lol, it doesn't look too complex for me. I just offered a generic solution on how to create a suitable dds from a bitmap. I'm a programmer, not an artist :)

I think I tried a normal map plugin (not sure which one, I believe there are a few of them) for Paint.net and it worked, but I don't have it right now and can't provide any details its use.
I also used NVidia Photoshop plugin - it is good, but again it was so long ago I can't comment on it.
And GIMP is a monstrosity about which I don't know much :)

[MajorMagee]

For the _s files sometimes I can simplify the process considerably. For a plane that's painted all over, and doesn't have paint chips or worn spots showing bare metal, I just create a texture that a solid 6% grey. AnKor's shaders use the base color's brightness to vary the reflectivity, so you will get some specular variations over the surface from that. Additionally you'll still see the specular highlights bring out the shape of the curved surfaces even when the _s is a solid shade. This actually is better than artificially forcing the upper curved surfaces to have lighter highlights, because it won't look wrong when the aircraft tilts or rolls inverted.

[Foute Man]

thanks, this is just what i needed to know as most tutorials were for other games with different format. the whole subject of bumb mapping is actually new for me. so enough homework to do for tonight :)

some weeks of experiments ahead, updating some old techniques :}

[mongoose]

OK so with Ton testing the bump maps for his 109, we get these results. IOH, the shine is excessive (? I am again assuming specular setting??). Also I imagine the height setting of the bump map could be less?? Comments welcome.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63996&stc=1

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63997&stc=1

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63998&stc=1

[MajorMagee]

Yes, that looks overbaked. Start with darkening the _s.dds file so you can see the bump mapping without the exaggerated effect. Then you will know how much to reduce the contrast when you create the bump file.

[Foute Man]

Yes, that looks overbaked. Start with darkening the _s.dds file so you can see the bump mapping without the exaggerated effect. Then you will know how much to reduce the contrast when you create the bump file.

ok, with a solid black (rbg 0,0,0) _s.dds file the flooding has disappeared but the diffuse map (_t.dds file) still looks horrible.
as i've been out of cfs 3 for a while, i used the tutorial on the groundcrew website for the configuration settings.
in my eto 1.5 install, with the january 2018 ankor shaders the diffuse map looks horrible (see the logo on the cowling, or the id number)

i've also installed pat pattle's bob without the ankor shaders and then the aircraft looks fine to me, see attached pics (same aircraft, copied and pasted directly from my eto install, so with solid black _s.dds file (specualar map?)

so something wrong with my eto configuration? also attached the config file

[BorekS]

OK so with Ton testing the bump maps for his 109, we get these results.

I can see there a very high bumpmap level mainly, which takes also effect on the specularity.

Ive noticed some people generates their +nm dds textures which are almost black images, if you look inside. thats unusable for later edits. in such case you have to recompute the normal map again with lover depth values - as the export procedure offers and try it ingame again.

but if you have the "blue" images, you can try to decrease the level of "bumpness" manually there. the main blue color is the neutral 0 height. add a new leayer up in your bitmap editor, fill it fully the same blue color and set it, lets say, 50% transparency and save it as the final dds again. this way you should got 50% smaller bumpness result basically. its not the ideal way, but for some quick tests it is good enough. from my own experience the blue normal map bumpness level for CSF3 Ankor Shaders 2018 is visually almost unnoticable at firts look - I mean the +nm texture paint, but it is getting fine result in the game.

I cant resist to not mention the Paint.NET editor again. its a lot simpler user interface (UI) comparing to GIMP or PhotoShop, which are not too much usable tools for beginners because of this, for our specular and bumpmap work, at least. I was a big fan of Paint Shop Pro by past, up to 7 series, but since it is not Jasc company product anymore, it become same UI muddle as the PhotoShop or similar monsters.