Question about the paywares we buy

[jeffv01]

Hi guys,

I have a little question about the paywares we buy for fsx or p3d. For example, if Justflight want to create a Mig-29 and make money with the product do they have to ask for autorisation (intellectual property) to Mikoyan gourevitch? I searched but i cannot find a clear anwser.

Thx.

[speedy70]

The answer is no because it is a model and not the real thing nor does it work like the real thing.

If they made one as a fighter aircraft for sale then they would be liable.

If MIG wanted to be really nasty and were prepared to pay a good lawyer they may be able to claim a small percentage of the profit made from it's name ie MIG.

Cheers Chris

[hairyspin]

Aaarghhh, another copyright/licensing thread. Please note, since you’re new to posting here, that these questions get hashed to death every couple of months and go round in circles every time. Apart from that, welcome to the forum and make yourself at home.

[Bjoern]

Asking the manufacturer can lead to one of two things:
- Provision of tons of information usable for creating a realistic rendition of the aircraft (e.g. Lionheart's Quest Kodiak) or a seal of approval (e.g. Boeing)
or
- A "cease and desist" order as commonly practiced by well known manufacturer of business jets with oval windows

Not asking the manufacturer, however, can provide the developer to stay "under the radar", so to speak at the risk of being found out by the manufacturer and potential for (expensive) legal proceedings.


Developing military hardware depends on the level of secrecy imposed on its capabilities. Nobody will care if the aircraft is out of service, but doing a 99% realistic rendition of, say, an F-22 is next to impossible.

[jeffv01]

Thanks for the reply Chris and Bjoern. Its appreciated.

Tom,
But i googled about this and i searched on SOH with "copyright/licensing" words and i found nothing interesting or nothing that was clear to me. But thx for the welcome. :P

[speedy70]

P welcome.
There is an old saying if you don't ask you don't get.You weren't to know it is a bit of a sore subject to some here.

Don't take it to heart,this is a great forum and you will come to love it,thorns and all.

Oh and you can answer all the stupid questions that this post will arouse hehehe.

Cheers Chris

[SkippyBing]

The answer is no because it is a model and not the real thing nor does it work like the real thing.

If they made one as a fighter aircraft for sale then they would be liable.

If MIG wanted to be really nasty and were prepared to pay a good lawyer they may be able to claim a small percentage of the profit made from it's name ie MIG.

Cheers Chris

Not true, if you make a model based on a real thing you can be liable to the manufacturer for using their intellectual property. Basically, you're benefiting from making something that looks like their product, if there was no benefit then you'd make as much money from selling fictional aircraft as real ones, which you don't. Knowing someone who works in the toy industry, and who has posted on this subject before, licensing is a minefield and the original manufacturer may be* within their rights to demand money for use of their design. This also theoretically applies to freeware as, again, you're infringing their intellectual property and if they don't defend it in all cases they set a precedent for others to abuse it.

*I believe because some US designs were made using US Govt funding then the IP resides with the US Govt so certain aircraft can be modelled with no comeback.

[Willy]

Or pick something that the manufacturer no longer exists and wasn't bought out by another company who now owns the rights.

[jeffv01]

No worries Speedy70. Thanks for the welcome.


Really good comment SkiippyBing. It's what i thought.

But usually it seem that the manufacturers agree that the FSX developer use their products. Otherwise there would be no aircraft on FS/P3d.

[hae5904]

Reminds me of a developer who did got in legal trouble with the original manufacter.......and that product is no longer available.

[jeffv01]

Hae5904,

Seriously? Who was the original manufacter? Cessna maybe? I found a post here on SOH who a guys had troubles with cessna. They called the developer asking him to cancel the project or give them $ 2500.

[fsafranek]

Reminds me of a developer who did got in legal trouble with the original manufacter.......and that product is no longer available.

Exactly!
:ernaehrung004:

[speedy70]

P
Perhaps now you see what we mean hahaha.

Cheers Chris
ps Skippy any developments or progress nothing since November.Is the site given up.

[wombat666]

Yes indeed, a real can of worms.
Way back before I was really interested in Flight Sims I read about Lockheed Martin (or whoever owned Grumman) coming down heavily on the IL2 team for producing an F4F as part of 'Pacific Fighters'.
I promptly purchased the whole package.
A non existent company were going to demand a royalty for a 40+ year old aircraft?
Muppets.
In the Sim Racing world licensing is a big cost, I do know that Porsche were extremely nasty citing the shape of their cars as 'Intellectual Property' and Ferrari were almost as bad.
The 'Independent' modders can often get away with a free rendition, but I can't blame our commercial operations for being very wary.
:encouragement:

[SkippyBing]

ps Skippy any developments or progress nothing since November.Is the site given up.

Essentially I'm in the awkward position that I've done all my work on the Firefly but the textures are waiting to be done. That's not my side of things, nor is the website, and I've used up about all my goodwill pushing for them to get down vs other people's real life commitments. If there's no movement soon I'll have to look at other options.

[dhasdell]

I read about Lockheed Martin (or whoever owned Grumman) coming down heavily on the IL2 team for producing an F4F as part of 'Pacific Fighters'.
As far as I know there was never a flyable Avenger in Pacific Fighters, and for whatever reason Battleship Row at Pearl Harbor consisted of Royal Navy King George V class ships.

[jeffv01]

I am discouraged to read some comments regarding the manufacturers. They are completely pathetic. What is funny is that it is with our taxes, our money that they make their profits. It is essentially because of the people that their companies are alive...

[b52bob]

Yes indeed, a real can of worms.
Way back before I was really interested in Flight Sims I read about Lockheed Martin (or whoever owned Grumman) coming down heavily on the IL2 team for producing an F4F as part of 'Pacific Fighters'.
I promptly purchased the whole package.
A non existent company were going to demand a royalty for a 40+ year old aircraft?
Muppets.
In the Sim Racing world licensing is a big cost, I do know that Porsche were extremely nasty citing the shape of their cars as 'Intellectual Property' and Ferrari were almost as bad.
The 'Independent' modders can often get away with a free rendition, but I can't blame our commercial operations for being very wary.
:encouragement:
Aha.......now I know how the G4 on X-Plane can get away with it......it’s freeware! And it’s a mostly really nice model.

Bob

[wombat666]

As far as I know there was never a flyable Avenger in Pacific Fighters, and for whatever reason Battleship Row at Pearl Harbor consisted of Royal Navy King George V class ships.

That would be the F4F Wildcat, can't recall a TBF Avenger being mentioned.
Never took much notice of the Pearl Harbor mission, far too busy with PNG and the Coral Sea campaigns.
:encouragement:

[dhasdell]

That would be the F4F Wildcat, can't recall a TBF Avenger being mentioned.
There was always a Wildcat available. I just threw in the Avenger myself, as another example of manufacturers' copyright resulting in a gap in a sim.