CeraSim AS365 fuel consumption question

[RaFi]

Recently I attempted a flight in the CeraSim AS365 with a distance of 133.7nm. I had 2050lb fuel loaded.

Cruising speed was 120 knots indicated at 3500ft ASL. I had a 11 knot headwind.

I ran out of fuel 2nm short of my destination.

My understanding is that the AS365 should be able to fly that distance with about roughly half the fuel. Yet this did not happen.

Am I not understanding the fuel consumption correctly, or did anyone notice similar excessive fuel consumption with the model?

Thanks
Dawie

[Penzoil3]

Eurocopter AS365 Dauphin Price, Specs ... - AircraftCompare.com (https://www.aircraftcompare.com/aircraft-specification/Eurocopter-AS365-Dauphin/224/spec)

https://www.aircraftcompare.com/aircraft-specification/Eurocopter-AS365.../spec


Detailed information, specs, operating cost, interior, features, cockpit and price of the Eurocopter AS365 Dauphin Helicopter. ... Maximum Take Off Weight -; 4,300.00 kgs 9,479.78 lbs; Maximum Payload -; 2,301.00 kgs 5,072.78 lbs; Fuel Tank Capacity -; 300.00 gallon 1,135.62 litres; Fuel Economy -; 0.63 km per litre , 1.49 NM per gallon...
715 km per tank or 447 miles.
I would play with the aircraft config file a bit and change the fuel consumption. ( fuel_flow_scalar=0.3 ) Maybe try 0.15.
You have a serious problem there.

[RaFi]

Eurocopter AS365 Dauphin Price, Specs ... - AircraftCompare.com (https://www.aircraftcompare.com/aircraft-specification/Eurocopter-AS365-Dauphin/224/spec)

https://www.aircraftcompare.com/aircraft-specification/Eurocopter-AS365.../spec


Detailed information, specs, operating cost, interior, features, cockpit and price of the Eurocopter AS365 Dauphin Helicopter. ... Maximum Take Off Weight -; 4,300.00 kgs 9,479.78 lbs; Maximum Payload -; 2,301.00 kgs 5,072.78 lbs; Fuel Tank Capacity -; 300.00 gallon 1,135.62 litres; Fuel Economy -; 0.63 km per litre , 1.49 NM per gallon...
715 km per tank or 447 miles.
I would play with the aircraft config file a bit and change the fuel consumption. ( fuel_flow_scalar=0.3 ) Maybe try 0.15.
You have a serious problem there.

Thank you.

I just wanted to ensure that it is not me doing something wrong.
I will try that change.

[ThomasAH]

Recently I attempted a flight in the CeraSim AS365 with a distance of 133.7nm. I had 2050lb fuel loaded.

Cruising speed was 120 knots indicated at 3500ft ASL. I had a 11 knot headwind.

I ran out of fuel 2nm short of my destination.

My understanding is that the AS365 should be able to fly that distance with about roughly half the fuel. Yet this did not happen.

Am I not understanding the fuel consumption correctly, or did anyone notice similar excessive fuel consumption with the model?


According to http://airbushelicoptersinc.com/images/products/AS365/AS365N3-tech_data_2009.pdf (e.g. page 19 or 58) the fuel consumption quickly increases with higher payload.

With your 2050lb fuel you could still have an allowed payload of 1354lb (614kg), which would bring the range down to about 325NM.
If you had a higher payload you would exceed the maximum allowed weight, which would probably decrease the range as well.
But even then you should be able to get at least 2.5h of flight time, i.e. about 270NM.

[RaFi]

That was what puzzled me. A crew of 2, no extra cargo or pax and moderate flying, yet it couldn't make 150nm.

I followed Penzoil3's advice and made the changes, it worked much better.

What really bugged me was, am I the only one with this problem, since I couldn't find a reference to this anywhere on the net?

[ThomasAH]

What really bugged me was, am I the only one with this problem, since I couldn't find a reference to this anywhere on the net?

I must admit that I never flew a helicopter in FSX for more than 100NM (only local sight-seeing or very short hops) and never looked at the fuel. I should try my standard test route for GA aircraft (EDDP MAG EMBOX POVEL DLE ROBEG BADMU MOBSA OSN EDDG) to see how far I get.

[Victory103]

That was what puzzled me. A crew of 2, no extra cargo or pax and moderate flying, yet it couldn't make 150nm.

I followed Penzoil3's advice and made the changes, it worked much better.

What really bugged me was, am I the only one with this problem, since I couldn't find a reference to this anywhere on the net?

I would say most probably don't fly that long unless they have some form of autopilot installed. I use Dirk's in all my FS helos and I still don't generally fly for over an hour with lots of hovering and sling loads. Not sure if a HTR profile was made for this model, but most if not all helos are off on fuel consumption in the sim based on the FS engine model. My particular example from real world is the UH-60 with similar fuel loads as the AS at 2300lbs for take off, 2.5 hours at 120kts cruise is typical and planned for.

[RaFi]

This particular model comes with a autopilot, which makes it ideal for same long distance cruising. Only issue is the fuel problem, but that is pretty much sorted out.

I just wanted to make sure that my planning was correct, so I was relieved to find out that for once it is not me that made a mistake.

Overall, the helicopters in FSX is more for fun, I want to start looking into slinging and so on, but I do not approach helicopters the same way I do with fixed wing aircraft in FSX.

For an autopilot with helicopters that do not have any, I use fsxpilot, I just pretend that Bob in the other seat takes over for a bit.

[PhantomTweak]

Not sure if a HTR profile was made for this model,
Yes, an HTR profile was created for this helicopter. It's in the HTR forum over at Hovercontrol. I can provide a link to the exact loction if you need.
Just a note: The profile is in the form of a series of lines in normal text in a forum post. Just like you see this text in. You'll have to copy-n-paste it into a .txt file someplace, then change the extension from .txt to the proper .cfg , and place in the correct folder in the HTR folder structure. Little bit of a pita, but very easy to accomplish with good old Notepad.


I want to start looking into slinging and so on,
A lot of fun. You usually have to add the [sling] entries to the helicopter's aircraft.cfg. Most helicopters, freeware or payware, don't come with the proper entries. The normal, provided, examples of the aircraft.cfg entries usually need to be adjusted for a particular aircraft. Positioning, the aircraft's capabilities, and so on. It can take a lot of tweaking, but once you get it right, it can really make a big difference in the enjoyment factor. After all, you don't want a R22 hoisting sling loads with ease that would give a CH-53 trouble...
I also recommend using the AICarriers sling loads. A lot easier to set up and utilize than the "saved flight" sling loads method. More variety available too :D

Have fun!
Pat☺

[ThomasAH]

Yes, an HTR profile was created for this helicopter. It's in the HTR forum over at Hovercontrol. I can provide a link to the exact loction if you need.
I'm only aware of the HTR profile included in this panel mod: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/103093-cera_as365_vc-zip
(http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/103093-cera_as365_vc-zip)Can you tell me where the profile in the HC forum is (I did not find it with a quick search) so I can compare them?

[kdfw]

the htr profile at hovercontrol is basically the same one found here in the lib bundled with the vc repaint mod so i'd use the one here at soh.

one change that wasn't mentioned in the readme was the mod to the xml file to defeat the turn off the autorudder at low speeds:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/102969-HU-Seems-that-Cerasim-released-new-helicopter-AS365N3?p=1055736&viewfull=1#post1055736

you want htr to use autocoordination to simulate afcs.

as for fuel consumption with htr, i can't remember i looked at it in much detail--as v103 says, don't really test the endurance. i did spend some time with fuel consumption for the cera uh60.

[PhantomTweak]

Can you tell me where the profile in the HC forum is (I did not find it with a quick search) so I can compare them?
The page I found was here: http://www.hovercontrol.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=53;t=24194
The second post down.
You'll have to copy the text out of the post into a .cfg file yourself. Not difficult at all. And then place the resultant file into the correct folder in the HTR structure. I put configs like this, made by people in the forums, or where-ever, into the folder dynamics_user . I do like I do with AICarriers, and make sub-folders to keep the original copy of the config in, and copy what I want to use in or out as needed. Same for editing the configs, which I do all the time. That way, if I totally mess it up, which I do frequently, I have the original to fall back on.
HTR does come with some great documentation, describing in detail what each and every entry in a config file does to the helicopter. Really handy for people like me, who just have to tweak things like this :D
I can't say how close the link I posted and the one included in the SOH VC download are, but it would be easy to compare the two side-by-side, once you have them both downloaded.

There are also two fantastic articles by Mr. Jordan Moore about how to adjust the .air file and aircraft.cfg file to make FSX utilize a helicopter correctly. Or more correctly than it does with the default settings for those two files anyway. The first is here: http://www.hovercontrol.com/artman/publish/article_67.shtml . I can post the second's address as well, if you desire. I very strongly recommend that you at least read them over. Some really fantastic info in both articles. Mr. Moore is a real flight sim helicopter guru, whether developing a bird, or adjust files to make them fly more correctly in MSFS.
Couple these two article's information with the HTR documentation and it really makes a huge difference in how a helicopter behaves in MSFS. It may not make them easier to fly, per se, but they will act much more realistically than just load-n-go will.

Good luck!
Pat☺

[ThomasAH]

The page I found was here: http://www.hovercontrol.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=53;t=24194
The second post down.

That one is identical to cera_as365_v1p3_vc/HTR1.6_dynamics/AS365.cfg from the VC mod.
Thank you for the other links, they are quite interesting!

[PhantomTweak]

Glad I was some help. Those aircraft.cfg and .air file changes can really make a difference. Especially the .air file. I play with those constantly to tune a helicopter. The HTR profile too, of course.
Just so you know, the profiles aren't version specific. A profile from v1.5 works just as well in v1.6 as it does in the original. There are some entries to the profile added in the latest version that didn't exist in the v1.5, but if they're not there in the profile, then HTR ignores them, or applies a default value. Read the documentation to see what they are and how they affect the helicopter.
Remember, every computer system is different. The profiles are for the author's system, and may well need some adjustment for your system. Same for the aircraft.cfg and .air file entries.

Good luck!
Pat☺