Question about specular files,bump files

[flewpastu]

My question is , does the spec file determine the shine on the model , and if so is there a way to tone down the shine ie, darken it or lighten it . And does the spec file have to have an alpha file also ? Any help would be appreciated . I’m working on a repaint and there is an alpha for the main texture file but also a spec file with an alpha file and a bump file with an alpha also , all these files can be pretty confusing .

Bill

[jeansy]

bill I will try to explain it as simple as I can

majority of models work this way, however some like the AH 748 the level of shine is in the spec

anyway for the average model:

Paint texture, is what your paint is on
Normal alpha, depending on the model it dictates the level of reflective shine or transparency- white-flat up to black-gloss or white solid where black is transparent (the later of the 2 are be used for windows or door spaces)
Spec: determines the of colour of the shine
Spec alpha dictates the amount of colour influence in the spec separate to the main texture and works in the reverse to a normal alpha, where white is maximum and black is minimum
bumps are for things like 3d panel lines or rivets, they come with alphas which depending on the colour determine raised or sunken textures, 99.9% you will ignore the bumps


so for a average bare metal look

use a black for the paint texture alpha
use a blue base for the spec and a mid grey for the alpha



another example, electric red look you would

choose what you want for the alpha
use the same red in the spec however you would use a white spec alpha


Specs are extremely fantastic for weathering as well


does that make sense?

[flewpastu]

Thanks for explaining the differences Matt, if I may ask your opinion, I’m repainting the Aerosoft Jayhawk, the spec file that came with the model seems to white out the details and lettering when The Sun/light shines on the model. I’ve added new lines and details and made all the files 2048/2048 from the original 1024, I don’t know if that has anything to do with my problem but where the light hits the aircraft at certain angles the paint whites out and you can’t see the detail, does that make sense. Would changing the spec file and Alpha lesson that problem ? Thanks for you input

Bill

[jeansy]

im guessing its a spec map problem as the spec mapping is reflecting too much white light

try this find that spec map for the textured area and make a plain 60-70% grey texture with a plain white alpha and save it as the relevant spec map and you will see the difference

[flewpastu]

Thank you, I’ll do it tonight and let you know how that works

Bill

[jeansy]

I run P3Dv4 so the hawks arent installed as they dont work in 64bit, so its hard to say what way the model is configured for spec mapping

[flewpastu]

Let’s hope they will convert the hawks over to v4, that’s the only reason why I haven’t gone to p3d , there aren’t enough helos that I like that can be used in v4. I can only hope

Bill

[jeansy]

another quick cheats way if your textures are light in colour is make a duplicate of the same texture, use your painting program to ad another layer on top and make it all black or a very dark grey, then select multiply and set the opacity around 60-70% and save that as your spec map with a white alpha

from there you just need to adjust the multiplied layer opacity until you get the look you want

or you can do what nemeth did and duplicate the texture as the spec with a white alpha

Carenado stock paints are good paints to study spec mapping

[jeansy]

i have 90% of fsx helos working fine in 64bit, MV are working on the remaining two, aerosoft indicated its unlikey to see the hawk in 64bit and one or 2 of the early nemeth play up from time to time and the dodo is getting a update

with the exception of Aera51, MP designs and dirk storch, I have all the other payware helos installed

[flewpastu]

Ok Matt , thanks the the tip, I wonder how hard it would be to get the jayhawk over to 64 bit without the original source files ? Difficult maybe but surley not impossible ? I’m no programmer obviously but just wondering out loud

Bill

[Mach3DS]

"Shiny" is too general a term. Do you mean light or do you mean reflection? Or do you mean a combination of both?

Diffuse Paint = The Paint job.
Diffuse Alpha = Controls the REFLECTION of the cube map (the environment map).

Spec Diffuse = The details that you want to be viewed when Light hits the aircraft...could be color, foot prints, whatever you want to paint here. It's viewable only in the off angles of light refraction. Like hand smudges on glass for example. You are literally "painting light" in this space. Lower brightness % areas are less lit, while Brighter % color or white has the ability to be 100% lit.

SPEC Alpha = This controls the Amount of light to be emitted from the Spec Diffuse.

>>If you used a 100% brightness color or pure white in the specular diffuse, then your light has the ability to be 100% reflected (not to be confused with the DIffuse Alpha - this doesn't affect how much of the image is reflected - just the light). This is inverse to the DIffuse ALpha. So Black areas will be 100% lit of what you have in your SPecular Diffuse. For example: IF you had a single hand print in Blue on the Specular diffuse, and wanted to show 100% brightness of this print when the sun hits it, then you would use use the same hand print and have it be 100% Black in the Specular ALpha. If you didn't want to show it at All, you could simply do one of the follow: make that area in the Spec Alpha 100% White.

In the specular Apha, a value of 100% Black = SHOW 100% of this pixels Specular Diffuse counterpart.

A value of 100% White = HIDE 100% of this pixels Spec Diffuse Counterpart.


Summary:

The interactions between Diffuse Color base, Diffuse ALpha, Specular Diffuse brightness, and SPecular Alpha, Bump map and Fresnel (which we haven't mentioned), are what control how real the surface materials on a model can look in the sim. Unfortunately, following these rules depends upon if the developer enabled these material settings in the actual 3D model. So your mileage may vary.

[milence]

Do not worry,Matt is not a programmer, his domain is just painting

[Mach3DS]

Oh yes, I know Matt well. He's correct, I'm just highlighting what exactly does what, to try and eliminate the generalities and help others understand.

[flewpastu]

Ok 000rick00, I’m starting to understand what’s your saying , when the light(sun) hits say a panel that has some detail that I added ie, lines and small fonts,bumps etc, at certain angles (viewing from outside of aircraft) the letters and details disappear when using say hat switch in free mode but as you view the same panel and moving to view the same panel at another angle then the fonts and lines and details can be seen clearly , so at certain angles the details are visible and at other angles they are not . I’m gonna assume that if I use a spec alpha with a white finish and a spec file that tends to be more darker then I would see the detail at any angle ?, hope I’m asking the right question and have come up with the solution according to your previous post lol. Now I’m confused I think lol

Bill

[Mach3DS]

No. Spec files don't control the angle at which you see the details. That is controlled by the sim. If you set the Spec Alpha to all white, you are telling the sim to "hide everything" in the Specular Diffuse, and you will see nothing from the spec file at all, other than the base specularity set in the mdl file.

Let's say you have a Wing texture called "Wing_Spec.dds" and you want to have subtle dirty effect of foot prints on the wing from oils tracked around by pilots and maintenence crew walking on the wing, visible when the sun hits the wing.

place the tracks in the Specular Diffuse (RGB) main texture which should be some variation of your main painted texture with the addition of the tracks. Now, in order to show any of what is in the main specular diffuse, you need to have some level of grey scale in the alpha channel. Black = Show 100% and white = HIDE 100%. so any greyscale values in between will show what's there with a smaller or greater intensity with higher or lower greys going toward Black or closer to white. Understand?

[flewpastu]

Ok , yes I do . Thanks and I’m gonna play around with it tonight . Very much appreciate the help from you guys . Just a a wealth of info here at simouthouse . :jump:


Bill

[roger-wilco-66]

Great stuff here. I'm working on getting pbr materials translated to the fsx/p3d world. There are some interesting hints here. Thanks for sharing!


Cheers,
Mark

[jeansy]

Do not worry,Matt is not a programmer, his domain is just painting

Bit rich from a developer who doesnt know how to use bump or spec mapping



Cheers rick for elaborating further

i didnt want to go too much into detail but you did a great job on expanding my very basic explanation which i wrote around 1;30 am

Bill theres a very detailed Microsoft sdk webpage on painting, it can be heavy reading but it explains all the different styles to map and paint fsx modeled aircraft

But i warn you its heavy reading as it more directed at the developer level for them to include those textures

But you have more than enough here to work with

[Mach3DS]

Nah, I just re-read yours Jeansy...it's easier to understand...Mine's too technical...LOL....But if anyone can decipher mine, go ahead and use it...you won't go wrong... Plus, Matt is one of the best painters I know.

[flewpastu]

LOL, Cheers and thank you guys . I appreciate the Info and as always everyone here is always willing to help out :applause:

Bill

[flewpastu]

Ok that worked, used a grey scale, slightly darker on the spec file and a white spec alpha and loaded up the sim and BAM, no more shine when the light hits the areas I was previously talking about AND there is a lot more uniformity over the whole aircraft ( I changed all the spec maps to the above solution ), now you can see all the details that I want to show up and it looks pretty good . Thanks to all for you help, Jeansy,000rick000 . Very helpful indeed

Bill

[flewpastu]

Definitely the look I was hoping for , no shine when the lights hit the surface so the details don't get shined out so to speak

Bill

[jeansy]

cool, we're glad you worked it out

[flewpastu]

Thanks again fellas , it’s coming together, seahawk72 is refining the mfd to operate much more realistically , Looks great , a few more things to do and hopefully I can get this repaint out soon

Bill

[Milton Shupe]

I will just add that even with the detailed explanations here, it still depends on how the materials were set up by the modeler.

Look closely at these options, especially those within the yellow band, and you can see how reflections and alphas can be used in different ways.

The SDK materials section (teapot) gives a reasonable explanation but still leaves a lot to experimentation.

http://www.sim-outhouse.net/downloads/SOHTeam/mtls.jpg

[flewpastu]

Thank you Milton, interesting info for sure

Bill

[milence]

Bit rich from a developer who doesnt know how to use bump or spec mapping



Cheers rick for elaborating further

i didnt want to go too much into detail but you did a great job on expanding my very basic explanation which i wrote around 1;30 am

Bill theres a very detailed Microsoft sdk webpage on painting, it can be heavy reading but it explains all the different styles to map and paint fsx modeled aircraft

But i warn you its heavy reading as it more directed at the developer level for them to include those textures

But you have more than enough here to work with

Thank you, Matt.:wavey: