FS9 Only Douglas A20 Havoc Released

[Milton Shupe]

Here ya go folks; thanks for all the support and encouragement.

A special thanks to Wellis who was inspirational and worked solid on this project from December 2016 until today. Not sure if I would have ever gotten this done without him. Thank you Sir. :-)

Thanks to Tom Falley for the great flight models, and Nigel for the excellent sound set.

Thanks to Spokes2112 for the great Loadsheet Clipboard. Maybe he will return one day to finish it out.

And thanks to Huub and SteveB for all the great paints, and for allowing us to share 2 each thru this release.

See more and download here:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/107809-Douglas-A-20-Havoc-Release-v1-0-for-FS9-Only?p=1107253#post1107253

[Blackbird686]

My hat is off to you, Milton, and all who worked arduously on the A-20 Project. It's good to see that we still have a great bunch of folks still willing to support "The Sunny Side" (FS9), as Nigel so eloquently puts it. I have been in the shadows, spending may hours in this bird, and watching the development over nearly a year. It was inspiring and I got a lot of enjoyment from watching the A-20 go from a basic detail-less image on a modeling sheet, to the absolutely gorgeous plane I have now.

You all are to be commended for your work and contributions :encouragement:

BB686:US-flag:

[assassinezzio]

Awesome stuff guys. Thank you to everyone involved with this amazing project. Your efforts are really appreciated.

[Mick]

Whoot!

Another great plane!

Kudos to all who worked on it.

:ernaehrung004:

[HorusJ]

Congratulations to all you fine people for a job VERY well done!:applause:
If we were in a pub right now I would buy you all a round of beers!:very_drunk:

[glh]

Great job and Thanks to all concerned.

[Milton Shupe]

Thank you all for the comments. We are just as happy to wrap it up as you are to get it. :-0

[Milton Shupe]

For those who skipped reading the readme.txt, you should have noticed by now that the Load Sheet clipboard is inactive UNTIL you:

1) shut down the engines, and
2) set the parking brake.

Just trying to keep the maintenance and flight crew safe.

[downwind]

Thanks go out to Milton and all of the other talented people who made this possible.

[rgatkinson]

:applause: Amazing aircraft - thank you to all those involved in bringing this to FS9, FSX and P3D :applause:

[jamminjames]

Thanks Milton and all involved!!!!!! Amazing....

[Milton Shupe]

:applause: Amazing aircraft - thank you to all those involved in bringing this to FS9, FSX and P3D :applause:

And thanks to dvslats and team that converted it to CFS2. They are having a blast (literally) with it. :applause:

[Navtech]

Months of work by the M.S team !
Thank you for this nice aircraft :applause::applause:

[msfossey]

Thank you Milton and the entire A-20 team. The plane works great in CFS2 and is just amazing!

msfossey

[Milton Shupe]

Months of work by the M.S team !
Thank you for this nice aircraft :applause::applause:

You are welcome Sir; project started in November 2015 but had other projects interspersed like the XP-54, the B-26 Marauder, some 6-7 FSX native conversions, and 48 video tutorials on Gmax for Beginners. :-)


Thank you Milton and the entire A-20 team. The plane works great in CFS2 and is just amazing!

msfossey

I am really happy you guys got this one into CFS2; it looks amazing there. Great effort by dvslats and team. :applause:

[Hurricane91]

FS9 Only Douglas A20 Havoc Released
Here ya go folks; thanks for all the support and encouragement.

What a sweetheart! Thank you Milton and all the folks on the development team. Gentlemen, this is a superb work of art.

Low and fast with this one.

[SteveB]

I still have a few paint schemes underway for both the C and G. Here is a WIP of what I have been playing with today.

Steve

[SteveB]

I've also played a bit more with this one.

[Mick]

I've also played a bit more with this one.

Sweet and sweeter!

[Milton Shupe]

Sweet and sweeter!


You bet Mick! Thank you SteveB for so many contributions on this one. :applause:

[SteveB]

Thanks guys I have thoroughly enjoyed painting the model, and I haven't finished yet.

Steve

[Mick]

Hey, I painted an A-20! My old wood-burning software can't open the paint kit, but I managed it anyway.

It's a little unusual, in that it has American Olive Drab upper surfaces and RAF Sky under surfaces, and aan RAF-style aircraft letter instead of USAAF-style squadron codes. It's from the 15th Bombardment Squadron, the first 8th Air Force unit to enter combat.

I used the base textures supplied with the model and borrowed the sky under surfaces from one of Steve's paints. Steve, I hope that's OK with you. (I don't suppose you'll mind, but I won't upload it until I get your answer.)

You can't see much of the undersides in the screenie, but you get the idea.

[SteveB]

I like it, no worries on the parts mate.

Steve

[Mick]

I like it, no worries on the parts mate.

Steve
Thanks Steve, up the pipe it goes. :ernaehrung004:

[Draenog]

Stunning! Thankyou very much to all involved.

[Milton Shupe]

Thank you SteveB and Mick; great paints! :applause:

[Blackbird686]

Nice work, Mick!

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54895&stc=1&d=1508179949

You and SteveB are doing some excellent paints for, as well as having a lot of fun with this plane, and it's good to see. Wonder why this release wasn't a "sticky"? LOL! :biggrin-new:

EDIT: Oh Look...!! They "Stickied" it!! Thanks for the Sticky!:applause:

BB686:US-flag:

[SteveB]

I have just released this one. you will find a link for it here http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/107002-My-Repaints

[Mick]

I have just released this one. you will find a link for it here http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/107002-My-Repaints

Can't find it there. The most recent post in that link was back in August.

[SteveB]

Can't find it there. The most recent post in that link was back in August.

Post number 10 on that thread.

Steve

[Mick]

Post number 10 on that thread.

Steve


Found it. Thanks!
I must've seen that thread backwards or something. :dizzy:

[huub vink]

P-70 No. 29-785 "the Hoot Owl" is available in the library. There is a version for FS2004 in 1024x1024 32bits bmp format and there is a FSX version in 2048x2048 dtx5 dds format.


Enjoy,
Huub

https://i.imgur.com/67GkHIf.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/tWw0R84.jpg

[Blackbird686]

Excellent work, Huub! A spectacular rendition of yet another weather beaten, battle weary, unclean beast! But the P-70 wears that hat so well, IMO. :applause::applause: Thanks for all you do!

BB686:US-flag:

[Mick]

P-70 No. 29-785 "the Hoot Owl" is available in the library..
Enjoy,
Huub
Excellent! :ernaehrung004:

Where did you get those rockets? Is that the FSX version???

[Milton Shupe]

Excellent! :ernaehrung004:

Where did you get those rockets? Is that the FSX version???

Notice he is showing the P-70 model there.

Rockets are available on the P-70's thru the Load Sheet selection window in FS9, and in FSX on the G Early version and P-70 models.

[michaelvader]

Hallo,

even that the texture "Buffallodave" is concieved for FSX,
using fsrepaint and an old paintshoppro6 and dxtprogramm
i converted these textures to use on the last A20 release it works quiet well in FS9
Just concerning the 2d panels for the moment I'm a bit lost if I shout fish the last little details or if it would be of no interest
I had just one feed back. Taking it in consideration, I just changed two gauges and so it might also work in FSX. But does it interest some one?
Yours
Papi

[Tom Clayton]

One last bump as I strip the glue...

[huub vink]

In case you like some "Miss Behaven", the repaint is available in the library. There is both a FS2004 as a FSX version available, so make sure you pick the right version.

Cheers,
Huub

https://i.imgur.com/nJgG5Dr.jpg

[Milton Shupe]

Now that is .... :applause:

But, this ain't ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I3P8uqCG_c

[Blackbird686]

Thanks for remembering the "Boys and Girls from the Sunny Side" sim, Huub. Your work is much appreciated by the FS9 lot. :medals:

BB686:US-flag:

[SteveB]

I'm still playing catch up with pilots hats.

[Milton Shupe]

I'm still playing catch up with pilots hats.

Now that there is likely a never-ending job! Thank you Sir :-)

[SteveB]

Now that there is likely a never-ending job! Thank you Sir :-)

It means I can finally upload my Imperial Japanese Navy Scheme.:biggrin-new:

[Mick]

Thanks for remembering the "Boys and Girls from the Sunny Side" sim, Huub. Your work is much appreciated by the FS9 lot. :medals:

BB686:US-flag:
Yes indeed! I second that comment! :ernaehrung004:

[jackryan172]

Yes indeed! I second that comment! :ernaehrung004:


Here here!! I agree!

[michaelvader]

Hallo,
here again I have released my final panels for the A20.
The may be also work in FSX.
There is at first a panel which should reflect the war time cockpit.For more facility I have placed the radios on a pop up panel simulating the radio operators place. As I have no photo I used the vc view and reworked it a little bit.
The second one shows the cockpit of a restored still flying bird. The modern radios are placed on the right hand console. The gunsight can be switched off.
The third panel is for the russian A20's. I found on a russian site a photo of a russian A20. Even the photo was of poor quality it seemed the cockpit to be equiped with russian gauges. I tried to reflect this by using as possible russian gauges for the primary and engines and radio gauges.
At last I added some effects. They are different from C to G model,
the first are the engine exhaust flames which switch on via the beacon light switch
than I added also weapon effects, the switch on via I an O keys.
I asked in the previous releases for feedback to know what else can be done better. There was just one post telling me about to gauges which would not work in FSX - I tried to fix this, so the panels should also work in FSX.
I have stopped the further development of early A/B, C model cockpits as I feel rhat it would interest no one.
I believe that now I stop there and turn to other works
Yours
Papi

[huub vink]

Thanks Papi :encouragement:

Huub

[Mick]

Well, today I did something I hardly ever do - I took time off from fiddling with planes and scenery and actually loaded the A-20 into the sim for the first time, other than momentary loads in spor view to take screen shots, to go for a short flight. Instead, I discovered an issue that I hadn't seen before.

When I go into 2D panel view the eyepoint is offset to the left and not all of the panel is visible on screen. The right side of the panel - not the whole right half, but more than just the edge - is off the screen, along with all or parts of the instruments that reside on the right side of the panel.

It seems that the panel background is too wide, but the height seems right.

I checked the coordinates in the Default View section and they're in the ballpark when compared to some other planes that have panels that look right. I tries making some adjustments anyway, by way of experimentation, and found that no changes I made in the panel.cfg had any effect. That seems odd - those coordinates are supposed to have some effecft, aren't they?

The VC is fine, with the eyepoint in the middle, right where the pilot's head would be.

In my help and tutorial folder I have a file with come comments about how to adjust the eyepoint in the 2D panel, but the instructions there don't work.

I am very confused.

Does anyone else have this problem? Is there a fix?

[Milton Shupe]

What sim Mick? and what is your screen resolution?

EDIT: attached is what I see

[Mick]

What sim Mick? and what is your screen resolution?

EDIT: attached is what I see

My screen resolution is the "recommended" 1280 x 1024. I'm not sure if that recommendation comes from Windows or from the monitor's manufacturer.

What I see is the attached, edited version of the image you posted, and I think I've figured out the problem. Is the panel meant for use with just wide screen monitors?

Does anyone else following this thread have a regular monitor and not see the entire panel?

[Milton Shupe]

My screen resolution is the "recommended" 1280 x 1024. I'm not sure if that recommendation comes from Windows or from the monitor's manufacturer.

What I see is the attached, edited version of the image you posted, and I think I've figured out the problem. Is the panel meant for use with just wide screen monitors?

Does anyone else following this thread have a regular monitor and not see the entire panel?


Mick,

In the panel.cfg, window00 section, try changing this parameter to your size:

size_mm=1920,1080

change to size_mm=1280,1024

[MrZippy]

In the panel.cfg, window00 section, try changing this parameter to your size:

size_mm=1920,1080

change to size_mm=1280,1024

Thanks for the tip, Milton! I wondered why the 2D looked a little offset!:ernaehrung004:

[Milton Shupe]

Thanks for the tip, Milton! I wondered why the 2D looked a little offset!:ernaehrung004:


Well, don't know if that fixes the issue but its worth a try.

[MrZippy]

Well, don't know if that fixes the issue but its worth a try.



Well worth the try! Just a slight adjustment! I did the change to the pixel size.

[Window00]
file=Panel2D.bmp
size_mm=1920,1080
window_size_ratio=1.000,1.000
position=0
visible=1
sizeable=1
ident=60
pixel_size=1360,768 <---------------(My screen resolution)


http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2017/11/07/A20G2D.jpg

[Mick]

No joy.

MrZrippy, thanks for posting! That tells me that the problem isn't unique to me. I was worried that I'd somehow messed things up!

Milton, I tried your suggestion and the image shows what I got. It looks like it might be the upper corner of the clipboard against a blank black background instead of a view of the world through the windscreen..

I always thought that adjusting the Default View (down at the bottom of the panel.cfg file) would alter the aspect ratio of the panel in the sim. In fact, I've edit that section on a few other planes where the panel showed up oddly, and it worked. But with the A-20, nothing I do in that section makes any difference at all. None!

It occurs to me that the problem is that the panel background image is wider that usual, and therefore not what FS9 expects, so it just displays the part that corresponds to an image with the expected aspect ratio. That makes me suspect that it's a wide-screen-only panel, but even that doesn't really ring true. A regular panel on a wide screen monitor shows the entire panel, it just stretches it a bit i the left-right dimension to fill the screen. It would seem, then (though I'm guessing here) that a wide screen panel on a regular monitor should also show the whole panel, simply compressing it a bit left-right to fit it on the screen. But obviously that's not happening here.

One could easily squeeze the panel background to give it the regular aspect ratio, but that wouldn't affect the instruments, they'd stay where they are. Visually, it would put the eyepoint in the middle of the windscreen and panel, but the instruments would no longer match up with their proper locations on the panel.

I could use Michael's excellent panel, but it doesn't match up with the VC, and I like it when the 2D and VC panels look the same.
This really has me confused! :dizzy:

[Milton Shupe]

No joy.

MrZrippy, thanks for posting! That tells me that the problem isn't unique to me. I was worried that I'd somehow messed things up!

Milton, I tried your suggestion and the image shows what I got. It looks like it might be the upper corner of the clipboard against a blank black background instead of a view of the world through the windscreen..

I always thought that adjusting the Default View (down at the bottom of the panel.cfg file) would alter the aspect ratio of the panel in the sim. In fact, I've edit that section on a few other planes where the panel showed up oddly, and it worked. But with the A-20, nothing I do in that section makes any difference at all. None!

It occurs to me that the problem is that the panel background image is wider that usual, and therefore not what FS9 expects, so it just displays the part that corresponds to an image with the expected aspect ratio. That makes me suspect that it's a wide-screen-only panel, but even that doesn't really ring true. A regular panel on a wide screen monitor shows the entire panel, it just stretches it a bit i the left-right dimension to fill the screen. It would seem, then (though I'm guessing here) that a wide screen panel on a regular monitor should also show the whole panel, simply compressing it a bit left-right to fit it on the screen. But obviously that's not happening here.

One could easily squeeze the panel background to give it the regular aspect ratio, but that wouldn't affect the instruments, they'd stay where they are. Visually, it would put the eyepoint in the middle of the windscreen and panel, but the instruments would no longer match up with their proper locations on the panel.

I could use Michael's excellent panel, but it doesn't match up with the VC, and I like it when the 2D and VC panels look the same.
This really has me confused! :dizzy:




Did you try Mr. Zippys solution?

[Window00]
file=Panel2D.bmp
size_mm=1920,1080
//window_size_ratio=1.000,1.000 //remove this as the pixel_size overrides it
position=0
visible=1
sizeable=1
ident=60
pixel_size=1280,1024

BTW, the Size x and y at the bottom only affects the view window of the outside, not the panel display.

[Mick]

Did you try Mr. Zippys solution?

[Window00]
file=Panel2D.bmp
size_mm=1920,1080
//window_size_ratio=1.000,1.000 //remove this as the pixel_size overrides it
position=0
visible=1
sizeable=1
ident=60
pixel_size=1280,1024

BTW, the Size x and y at the bottom only affects the view window of the outside, not the panel display.

Somehow I missed that until your reminder, despite having seen and read his post. I just tried it and it works, but as we might expect when a wide-angle panel is compressed to fit a regular screen, all the instruments are compressed out of round, squeezed in the left-right dimension.

I should've figured that out myself, since I used the same method to make the clipboard bigger to suit my old, tired eyes.

It should be possible to edit the panel.cfg file to make them round again, hopefully without messing up their locations. But the instruments are painted on the panel background, so the painted ones will probably peek out the top and bottom of each functioning instrument. That would ruin the panel. But rather than abandon hope on a presumption, I will try it with one gauge and see what can be done. If necessary, maybe I can paint out those painted-on instruments and make a bare panel background. If it works, I'll do the whole panel. But I won't get to do it this morning; I have too much else to do and can't stay at my desk for a while.

I will post the results of my experimentation.

If it doesn't work, or turns out to be too tedious, I can always fall back on Papi's panel. It doesn't match the VC but otherwise it's excellent. (And I will use his included weapons effects whether or not I use the panel.)

Thanks for the clarification on the coordinated in the bottom section. It prompted the recollection that I've used it when the view through the windscreen doesn't quite fill the available space, not to affect the panel itself.

[Mick]

OK, project started. It's tedious enough that I was tempted to abandon the job and use Papi's panel. Trouble is, Papi's panel is drawn as if the pilot was sitting so far back from the panel that for my old eyes, the instruments were impossible to read, even with my reading glasses on.

So back to work. I have one row of instruments done and they look pretty good. Alas, many of the gauges lose their bezels, which are drawn onto the panel background. I don't think I'll notice that in the heat of combat, but I may try to restore them. I can think of a way, but if it works it could be the most tedious bit of all and may not be worth the time and effort. As they are, they look more natural to me than the elongated shape they take when the panel is simply squeezed. Still, I can get compulsive about this stuff sometimes, so who knows how far this will go.

Well, that's enough of a break. Back to the drawing board. Or to the dashboard, I should say.

[Mick]

OK, finished! It went a lot faster than I expected. My idea of how to restore missing instrument bezels turned out to be impossible. So up the pipe it goes. It's not perfect, but at least the instruments are round. All I did was edit the panel.cfg file to change the shape of the instruments and paint over the instrument bezels on the background image. Just those two files are in the upload.

It's interesting to note that nobody mentioned the aspect ratio of the panel until today, and only one other came forward when I posted about the matter. Some people have been flying the plane for months, and many for weeks now. Did nobody else notice the issue? Or didn't they mind it? Or have 6x8 monitors become exceedingly rare now? It will be interesting to see how many folks download this.

[Milton Shupe]

That looks good Mick. Happy that you got something that satisfies the mind. :wavey:

[Mick]

That looks good Mick. Happy that you got something that satisfies the mind. :wavey:

It was easier than I expected. All I had to do was change the proportions of the gauges. I thought doing that would require some resizing or at least slight movement on the panel, but no, none of that at all.

I made the rudder and elevator trim wheels a little bigger, just from personal preference, but mainly it was just a matter of rounding out the gauges.

I'm very curious to see if anyone else needs this. So far, nobody, but it's early yet. I wonder, though, if MrZippy and I are the only ones left with standard aspect ratio monitors. Maybe we're about to find out!

[vonernsk]

Noticed this prob as soon as I loaded up the official release of the Havoc. As I had just bought and set up a new monitor I thought it was a result of the change. As the 2D panel acts like a window on my monitor, I merely stretched it by the bottom right corner to fit my screen. Remarkably, the instruments maintained the correct circularity in the new 'stretched' panel. This is the first time I have experienced a 2D panel acting like this. Very commendable to produce a scale changing panel to match any configuration or size.

The above performance is obviously at odds with what others are experiencing, but from my point of view (no pun intended), apart from having to expand the 2D panel the first time I open it, all is excellent.

On the heels of Milton's trials bringing this a/c to our screens, I was hardly going to mention this slight niggle. After all - who really knows how one's work appears on the host of monitors and standards now running good old FS9?

As it appears as an unintended effect to others, I thought best to mention my experiences with it. My current resolution on my AGON monitor is 2560x1440 (native).

Lovely a/c as normal Milt! Many thanks.

Mal

[michaelvader]

Mick,
The photo I used is from a site where you can zoom the panel from near to far.
I zoomed it that the point of view was just a little bit bhind of the center of the seat.
There where from my own flying experiance the pilot eyes should be.
When I downloaded the aircraft with the original panel and than used used the vc I had the same impression as if in a car the seat is completly advanced and my teeth will hit the steering wheel.
In the rare cases I use VC's when flying I have to scroll back the view point.
My steam powered pc and monitor lives with a resolution of 1440 X 900.
With that I try that I can read the gauges, even that I'm now 61 and my eyes are realy no longer the best..
Ok that is my personal impression.
Also I have learned not so much looking at the values of a gauge when flying but watching where the needle of a gauge should be depending the flying conditions.
I must say that old Luftwaffe and Marineflieger Had a completely other method of flying.
That remebers me Erich Hartmann when later after war he had to learn to fly on us jets on US methods.
He pested "do you really believe that in a war case we have time to read this damned checklists?"
He never used them as recommanded and was still a good pilot in modern jets.
Allright, as I did say in an other thread for me the chapter is ended. I did not hit what the people wanted or waited for.
So sei es Gott
Ich stehe hier und kann nicht anders (Martin Luther)
Yours
Papi

[Mick]

Papi, I wrote a note to you in the other thread so I won't repeat it here. You youngsters have far better screen vision than I do. (Only 61 - how I wish I could still feel [and see!] like I did when I was only 61!) Like you, I pay more attention to the needles than the actual numbers. But when I tried your panel, the instruments were so small that I couldn't even see the needles, and I couldn't tell which instruments were which.

In the olden days, and perhaps still now (I haven't been around real airplanes since the early 1980s) instruments were often mounted on panels at such an angle that the needle pointed straight up when in the middle of the normal range, no matter what angle that put the numbers at. I don't think it's possible to do that in FS; the gauge would have to be designed that way from the start.

Your comments about Bubi Hartmann's remarks reminds me, I once read that the pilots US Air Force Thunderbirds (or was it the Navy's Blue Angels, or both) didn't use checklists, or preflight their planes. They left it to the ground crews to do the preflight and check everything on all the lists, and have the planes set up all ready for the pilots to just get in, start the engines and fly. I don't know if that was true, or if it is still true, but it sounds plausible. It would seem that in service, especially when a unit is on alert for quick response, they must do it that way. Otherwise a "quick reaction" couldn't be very quick, it would seem.

[Mick]

Noticed this prob as soon as I loaded up the official release of the Havoc. As I had just bought and set up a new monitor I thought it was a result of the change. As the 2D panel acts like a window on my monitor, I merely stretched it by the bottom right corner to fit my screen. Remarkably, the instruments maintained the correct circularity in the new 'stretched' panel. This is the first time I have experienced a 2D panel acting like this. Very commendable to produce a scale changing panel to match any configuration or size...


Mal, is your panel 6x8 or wide angle?

It sounds like it must be wide angle, or the gauges would distort. Since they don't, your screen must have the same aspect ratio that the panel was made for, wide screen.

I have an idea, and if I'm right, the situation is due to you having such a high screen resolution, and the fix should be simple in concept, even if somewhat tedious in execution.

In the [Window 00} section there is this line: size_mm=1920,1080

Fiddling with those numbers might get the panel to fill your screen. Since the size seems to be expressed in millimeters (not pixels, anyway) and screen resolution is expressed in pixels, it's not just a matter of substituting one figure for another, but some experimentation should get you to where you want to be. Just have your calculator at hand so you can make the changes to both figures proportional. I edited that line in my personal A-20 panel to make the checklist bigger so I could read it easily, so it should work the same way with the main panel.

Before you get to work you might do a quick experiment to see if the same small panel effect happens with other aircraft. If so, my hypothesis must be right. If not, then I'm wrong.

[vonernsk]

Mick,

I took the easy solution and amended the panel.cfg as shown by mrzippy in their last posts. Just hashed out the 'window_size_ratio=' line and inserted my current pixel size as a new last line ie 'pixel_size=2560x1440'. All AOK now and all gauges round.

To answer your question, no I did not have a repeat of the original effect ie start state was a half-size panel which could be expanded to full size with no distortion of the gauges from their original round shapes.

Rgds
Mal

[michaelvader]

Hallo Mick,
hmm hmm hmm
I understand 100 percent your point of view
now the big question for me : how to get the real feeling to be in the cockpit and not in front of a panel?
The reason also why I prefer to use photos is to reproduce the feeling to be INTO the cockpit with alle the problems of deepness and with that little gauges.
Surely the size of the monitor plays a role mine is a 22' screen running in 1440 X 900 resolution
So it would be interesting for me to know also from the other friends what will be the average monitors and in what resolution do they run.
I will have the same problem on my next cockpit for the OV10 Bronco.
To have the roomy felling the pilot had on the real plane and also with that all the gauges and switches "by the hand" with avoiding these damned pop ups. Or loosing the felling to get better readable gauges
Hmmm I have an idea: what about the main gauges beeing as a transparent overhead line which could be switched on or off, and off course in a good readable size?
Yours
Papi

[Mick]

Hallo Mick,
hmm hmm hmm
I understand 100 percent your point of view
now the big question for me : how to get the real feeling to be in the cockpit and not in front of a panel?
The reason also why I prefer to use photos is to reproduce the feeling to be INTO the cockpit with alle the problems of deepness and with that little gauges.
Surely the size of the monitor plays a role mine is a 22' screen running in 1440 X 900 resolution
So it would be interesting for me to know also from the other friends what will be the average monitors and in what resolution do they run.
I will have the same problem on my next cockpit for the OV10 Bronco.
To have the roomy felling the pilot had on the real plane and also with that all the gauges and switches "by the hand" with avoiding these damned pop ups. Or loosing the felling to get better readable gauges
Hmmm I have an idea: what about the main gauges being as a transparent overhead line which could be switched on or off, and off course in a good readable size?
Yours
Papi

Hallo Papi,

I can see why you can read the instruments on your monitor while I can't on mine! Size matters!

I have a 17" screen at 1280x1024, so there's a big difference. I would guess that in the present time, there are more monitors like yours than there are like mine. I bought mine seven or eight years ago and even then I had to really search for a 17" 6x8 screen; already they were almost all larger as well as being mostly wide screen.

As for feeling like being inside the plane, that's what the VC is for. I use it most of the time, and just go to the 2D panel to see the instruments directly without having to alter my eye line in the VC. Of course, not all planes have a good VC, but the ones I fly usually do. If a model lacks a VC, or has one that isn't very good, I spend more time in the 2D panel view. If a plane I like doesn't have a VC at all, I will often make the external model visible in VC view and adjust the eyepoint to make a non-dynamic "pseudo" VC. (Thanks to Norm for teaching me how to do that!)

I must confess - I often fly with that line of flight information at the top of the screen. I know it's "cheating" but I do very little flying, and due to my lack of practice, I need all the help I can get!

[michaelvader]

Hallo Mick,
your problem is now a challenge forme
I said that the chapter will be closed for me - but at this week end I will have a look if I find a pratical solution for you and others who has the same problem. I' m not sure about if I find it.
I will see if my Idea with an overhead gauges line will be a pratical solution
So without changing the panel the primary and engine instruments informations will be visible on an overhead line, but could be switched away if you want
Yours
Papi

[Mick]

...So without changing the panel the primary and engine instruments informations will be visible on an overhead line, but could be switched away if you want
Yours
Papi

Hallo Papi,

We already have that in FS9. Just key "Shift+Z" and there is is, easily toggled on or off.

[Bushi]

Hey, I painted an A-20! My old wood-burning software can't open the paint kit, but I managed it anyway.

It's a little unusual, in that it has American Olive Drab upper surfaces and RAF Sky under surfaces, and aan RAF-style aircraft letter instead of USAAF-style squadron codes. It's from the 15th Bombardment Squadron, the first 8th Air Force unit to enter combat.

I used the base textures supplied with the model and borrowed the sky under surfaces from one of Steve's paints. Steve, I hope that's OK with you. (I don't suppose you'll mind, but I won't upload it until I get your answer.)

You can't see much of the undersides in the screenie, but you get the idea.

Done this many times myself mate! Grab bits from several paints. modify and tweak the colours... when one wants something different.. and has NO paintkit... one 'adapts'!

I've developed an entire 'style' of repainting from a base all over 'something' (I prefer a light gray scheme) and then copying and pasting layers of this base after tinting and playing with the other tools in photoshop to get the desired colour and intensity. SOMETIMES, it actually looks better than one done with a paintkit.:jump:

And like you, I feel it is only right to get the original artists permission before making my new paint available to all.. and of course.. give credit!

Cheers

[michaelvader]

Hallo,

as we do not have a "K" model for FS9 I tokk the "G" for this repaint.
What do you thinks about?



Yours
Papi

[MrZippy]

Is there any chance of that happening, Milton? Hope this isn't an off-base question.

[Milton Shupe]

Is there any chance of that happening, Milton? Hope this isn't an off-base question.

Yes, Ill look at it.

EDIT: The original model is already set up to handle reflective textures in FS9. The xxx_T.bmp suffix to all body parts is evidence of that.

I did have to add specular to each of them however.

Attached is the new model and cfg entry.

Now, all you need are paints. :-)

[huub vink]

Hallo,

as we do not have a "K" model for FS9 I tokk the "G" for this repaint.
What do you thinks about?



Yours
Papi

I think it looks nice Papi :encouragement:

H.

[MrZippy]

Yes, Ill look at it.

EDIT: The original model is already set up to handle reflective textures in FS9. The xxx_T.bmp suffix to all body parts is evidence of that.

I did have to add specular to each of them however.

Attached is the new model and cfg entry.

Now, all you need are paints. :-)


Thanks Milton! Heck we aren't paying you enough! Take a raise outta petty cash!:ernaehrung004: I think it looks rather spiffy!

http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2017/11/15/A20gReflective.jpg (http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/image/GIpJ)

[michaelvader]

Hallo Milton,

would it be a difficulty or too much work to add a "K" nose to the "G" model.
Or is there a solution via the paint job?
For me the K would be interesting as it will be the last of the A20 in service for long years. The brazilians did put them out of service in late 50 ies if I had seen well.
I can not leave this bird, you have done a really nice bird
Thank you
Yours
Papi

[Milton Shupe]

Thanks Milton! Heck we aren't paying you enough! Take a raise outta petty cash!:ernaehrung004: I think it looks rather spiffy!

http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2017/11/15/A20gReflective.jpg (http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/image/GIpJ)

Well done Sir :-) :applause:

[Milton Shupe]

Hallo Milton,

would it be a difficulty or too much work to add a "K" nose to the "G" model.
Or is there a solution via the paint job?
For me the K would be interesting as it will be the last of the A20 in service for long years. The brazilians did put them out of service in late 50 ies if I had seen well.
I can not leave this bird, you have done a really nice bird
Thank you
Yours
Papi

Papi,

Yes, it would take a bit of work to get that done. The K was based on the J (which was based on the) G, but had more powerful 1700 HP engines like the H.
So, in addition to a longer nose and roomier bombardier interior, the flight model would not be correct for it, and the paint lit of course would not support it.
Furthermore, the load out selection sheet does not support it so selecting options would be a problem.

There is no way to do all the models; just too many of them, so I tried to select the more popular ones.

The project is closed now and I have moved on to other work, namely finishing out the Marauder and converting aircraft to FSX native.

As much as I wish I could accommodate your request, I am sorry that I cannot.

[michaelvader]

Hallo Milton,

thank you for your answer.
I understand your point of view - there is a moment where some one must say stop enough is enough.
What you gave us is still a masterpiece, and clear that we could not ask for every variant.
I will go search further more for the brazilian A20's I have seen one with the same paintsheme as the one I did but it had a "gun nose" might be a "G".
The bad thing is that the bird had a nose art a sort of red ensign but the photo is too poor to see clearly what it is. I will search to find out what this nose art is and than we can have a brazilian gun bird for our south american friends.
So long
Yours
Papi

[michaelvader]

Hallo Friends,
here is a A20 of the Brazilian Air Force with a solid "gun nose".
I found a photo of this rare variant on the net
Yours Papi

[Milton Shupe]

Hallo Friends,
here is a A20 of the Brazilian Air Force with a solid "gun nose".
I found a photo of this rare variant on the net
Yours Papi

Ah, rare indeed; thank you for this beautiful rendition. :applause:

[Hurricane91]

Hallo Friends,
here is a A20 of the Brazilian Air Force with a solid "gun nose".
I found a photo of this rare variant on the net
Yours Papi

That is a delightful and unusual texture set Papi. Thank you.

[Hurricane91]

Thanks Milton! Heck we aren't paying you enough! Take a raise outta petty cash!:ernaehrung004: I think it looks rather spiffy!

That is very nice. What textures did you use?

[michaelvader]

Hallo Friends,

in fact the Brazilian Air Force had only A-20 K.
As I found on the net a photo and a profile of an FAB A-20K with a solid nose with cannons I could not resist
to try to make this repaint.
It is just to have an "exotic" rare A-20 version.
As it is far far away from the repaints done by Huub, or Mick or some other experts, I wonder if I should publish it.
Yours
Papi

[Hurricane91]

It is just to have an "exotic" rare A-20 version...I wonder if I should publish it.
Your Brazilian A-20 is a beautiful, colorful, and exotic paint scheme. I would like you to publish it Papi.

[Milton Shupe]

Your Brazilian A-20 is a beautiful, colorful, and exotic paint scheme. I would like you to publish it Papi.


I agree; please do share your paint Papi. :applause:

[Sascha66]

http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2017/11/15/A20gReflective.jpg (http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/image/GIpJ)

Did you do that paint yourself? I hope you are going to share it :encouragement::encouragement::encouragement:

[MrZippy]

http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2017/11/15/A20gReflective.jpg (http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/image/GIpJ)

Did you do that paint yourself? I hope you are going to share it :encouragement::encouragement::encouragement:
The textures were already posted by ******** and Milton posted the reflective model. I am using FSX .dds textures on my FS9 A20G which I fly in FSX. Confusing, huh?

[huub vink]

H.........., I wonder if I should publish it.
Yours
Papi

Is there a reason not to upload it? The only repaints I do not upload are the repaints for models which are (not longer) available.

Cheers,
Huub

[Sascha66]

The textures were already posted by ******** and Milton posted the reflective model. I am using FSX .dds textures on my FS9 A20G which I fly in FSX. Confusing, huh?

Didn't know that was possible at all! Were the textures posted in the FSX native thread then? I'll go check!

[Milton Shupe]

Didn't know that was possible at all! Were the textures posted in the FSX native thread then? I'll go check!


Zippy is running an FS9 model in FSX as a portover.

Anytime you run an FS9 model in FSX, you can use FSX native textures.

Of course the quality and effects are not the same because the FS9 texture materials are not as capable as FSX modeled native material properties.

******** uploaded the bare metal texture to the FSX library about 2 weeks ago.

You can get it here:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=213&linkid=23151

The FS9 reflective model is in this thread and has not been uploaded to the library.

[Sascha66]

Zippy is running an FS9 model in FSX as a portover.

Anytime you run an FS9 model in FSX, you can use FSX native textures.

Of course the quality and effects are not the same because the FS9 texture materials are not as capable as FSX modeled native material properties.

******** uploaded the bare metal texture to the FSX library about 2 weeks ago.

You can get it here:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=213&linkid=23151

The FS9 reflective model is in this thread and has not been uploaded to the library.Thank you for clearing that up, Milton. I got confused!

[MrZippy]

Thank you for clearing that up, Milton. I got confused!

Actually flying the FS9 version in entirety in my Sim (not FS2004). The FSX version did not show cockpit glass, gunners plexiglass bubble, or turret guns. My Sim's problem, not the aircraft.

[Milton Shupe]

I uploaded the reflective model to the library so we now have an official release.

This is a model folder only; does not include a livery.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/108294-FS9-ONLY-A-20G-Havoc-Model-Addition?p=1113488#post1113488

[Hurricane91]

Hello Papi,
Thank you for uploading your FAB A-20 texture set. It's a colorful addition to my A-20 fleet.

[downwind]

Should I be able to select and see the reflective model after install? I do see "reflective test" as an option on in A-20G menu in the sim, but it shows as a grey monotone in the sim. I did update my aircraft config.

[SteveB]

Should I be able to select and see the reflective model after install? I do see "reflective test" as an option on in A-20G menu in the sim, but it shows as a grey monotone in the sim. I did update my aircraft config.

What textures have you told the reflective entry on your aircraft config too seek ?
Grey monotone aircraft sounds like it's lacking any textures.

Steve

[MrZippy]

Should I be abble to select and see the reflective model after install? I do see "reflective test" as an option on in A-20G menu in the sim, but it shows as a grey monotone in the sim. I did update my aircraft config.

You will probably have to wait for a talanted FS9 repainter to do up some shiny baremetal textures for that reflective model to strut it's stuff..

[Milton Shupe]

Should I be able to select and see the reflective model after install? I do see "reflective test" as an option on in A-20G menu in the sim, but it shows as a grey monotone in the sim. I did update my aircraft config.

As explained in the release of the model, there were no textures with the model. The release was so others could do bare metal based textures. The original release did not accommodate them.

[Motormouse]

Silly question; are the texture mapping and names same for Fs9 as for FSX ?

If so a conversion of those FSX bare metal textures would be possible (using DXT.BMP and your favourite paint program)

ttfn

Pete

[Milton Shupe]

Silly question; are the texture mapping and names same for Fs9 as for FSX ?

If so a conversion of those FSX bare metal textures would be possible (using DXT.BMP and your favourite paint program)

ttfn

Pete

Well, not exactly.

Mapping and names are the same. However, material properties (for specular, reflections, glossiness) are different because the models are different in that regard.

Secondly, the bump and spec textures would need to be removed for FS9.

Thirdly, the DDS/DXT5 formatted textures would need to be converted to bmp. This can be done with DXTBmp.

So, FSX textures can be used but may require some tweaking, especially if bare metal.

[Motormouse]

Righto, thanks Milton, I'll have a crack at it and see what occurs.

I've converted a few FSX textures to FS9 now (for mine own use) so know the deal on alpha reflections and bump and spec maps.

ttfn

Pete

[Motormouse]

For your viewing... texture of Hard to Get for FSX by Jan Kees (available at Ozx) ; converted to Fs9 format, on the reflective model.
Not too bad for first pass.


http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56203&stc=1



http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56204&stc=1

The 'how to' : Using DXTBMP ; 1) take each external texture .dds ; export the alpha and save each alpha for later as bmp
2) Save the dds external texture as extended 32 bit 888 format

:Using your paint program 1) resize each 32 bit 888 bmp texture and its' associated alpha to Fs9 friendly image size 1024 x 1024

: Back to DXTBMP open each resized bmp file and import the alpha for it that you saved ; then FLIP image and alpha ; save ; and you're good to go.

As Milton says, you don't neeed (FS9 doesn't use) bump and spec etc so ok to delete them.


This one won't be uploaded before anyone asks, unless I can get permission to from original author.

ttfn

Pete

[nigel richards]

For your viewing... texture of Hard to Get for FSX by Jan Kees (available at Ozx) ; converted to Fs9 format, on the reflective model.
Not too bad for first pass.


http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56203&stc=1



http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56204&stc=1

The 'how to' : Using DXTBMP ; 1) take each external texture .dds ; export the alpha and save each alpha for later as bmp
2) Save the dds external texture as extended 32 bit 888 format

:Using your paint program 1) resize each 32 bit 888 bmp texture and its' associated alpha to Fs9 friendly image size 1024 x 1024

: Back to DXTBMP open each resized bmp file and import the alpha for it that you saved ; then FLIP image and alpha ; save ; and you're good to go.

As Milton says, you don't neeed (FS9 doesn't use) bump and spec etc so ok to delete them.


This one won't be uploaded before anyone asks, unless I can get permission to from original author.

ttfn

Pete

Stunning metalwork :applause:

[Mick]

... So, FSX textures can be used but may require some tweaking, especially if bare metal.

Some while back EMatheson released a little batch file that will make the conversion on all the texture files in a folder in one fell swoop. I don't recall whether it went into the library here, or was just attached to a forum post. On my rig it's called FSX to FS9 Texture Converter but I don't recall if that's the name he gave it or just what I called it.

I do those conversions manually because it's not difficult, not really very tedious, and I like to see exactly what I'm doing as I go along and be sure of what I wind up with. But if one were in a hurry or had a bunch of skins to convert at the same time, that batch file would save a lot of time.

[Milton Shupe]

For your viewing... texture of Hard to Get for FSX by Jan Kees (available at Ozx) ; converted to Fs9 format, on the reflective model.
Not too bad for first pass.


http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56203&stc=1



http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56204&stc=1

The 'how to' : Using DXTBMP ; 1) take each external texture .dds ; export the alpha and save each alpha for later as bmp
2) Save the dds external texture as extended 32 bit 888 format

:Using your paint program 1) resize each 32 bit 888 bmp texture and its' associated alpha to Fs9 friendly image size 1024 x 1024

: Back to DXTBMP open each resized bmp file and import the alpha for it that you saved ; then FLIP image and alpha ; save ; and you're good to go.

As Milton says, you don't neeed (FS9 doesn't use) bump and spec etc so ok to delete them.


This one won't be uploaded before anyone asks, unless I can get permission to from original author.

ttfn

Pete

Well done Sir! :-)

One additional note: If the textures use NO alpha channel, you can safely use one of the compression formats that does not support alphas like DXT1 (No Alpha) for a tremendously smaller texture size.
I just did a couple FSX Only P-70 AI conversions and used 512 DXT1's on the exterior textures. 129K each for those exterior engines, wings, tails and fuselage textures. They still look great. That's the extreme downsize and not recommending it but as an example of what can be done with nice results.

[nigel richards]

Well done Sir! :-)

One additional note: If the textures use NO alpha channel, you can safely use one of the compression formats that does not support alphas like DXT1 (No Alpha) for a tremendously smaller texture size.
I just did a couple FSX Only P-70 AI conversions and used 512 DXT1's on the exterior textures. 129K each for those exterior engines, wings, tails and fuselage textures. They still look great. That's the extreme downsize and not recommending it but as an example of what can be done with nice results.

Have been trying similar applications with DXT1 for static models, with remarkably good results.

Huge texture folder size savings - impressive FR gains on complicated multi-object scenes.