BlackBox Simulations

[falcon409]

Has anyone had any dealings with this Company other than purchasing? I've sent help tickets, posted on their Support Forum and tried e-mails and I get zero, zilch, nada. Their Forum has unanswered posts back to April (possibly even farther back if I had looked). They're located in Malta from what I see on their website and they only have two products, the A320 (and some variants) and the L-19 but most of their site is dedicated to the Airliners. . .very little on the Birddog. My biggest pet-peeve with developers like this is not answering customers in a timely manner. If you setup a support forum then be ready to get all manner of requests/complaints and be ready to answer immediately, not 3 or 4 days or weeks later. If you're too busy to answer then designate someone who isn't too busy. . .otherwise shut it down get out of the hobby and find something else you're more suited for like knitting or sitting in the park playing chess all day.

My second biggest pet peeve is someone who doesn't answer emails. If you post email addresses on your website then you should expect to get e-mails and when you get those, you're actually supposed to answer them. Again, why bother setting up e-mail addresses and then not answer? Too busy. . .no excuse! No one is that busy. I know people who swear they are constantly on the go, busy, busy, busy, yet they spend more time talking about how busy they are than actually doing anything at all other than imagining how busy they are, lol. On the road, "Laptops", "iPhones", "Wifi". . .sooner or later you've gotta stop somewhere. Work all day, tired when you get home. . .too bad, you've got a business to run, pay attention to it or shut it down.

Crap like this drives me nuts. . .no excuse!

[StormILM]

Ed,
I had heard their support was sub-par and Bernt Stolle's opinion on the progress (lack thereof) in the successive updates were warning enough for me to totally avoid their products. Still, I truly hate when anyone get's burned on such things after paying good money into such products.

[falcon409]

Ed,
I had heard their support was sub-par and Bernt Stolle's opinion on the progress (lack thereof) in the successive updates were warning enough for me to totally avoid their products. Still, I truly hate when anyone get's burned on such things after paying good money into such products.
Actually while not up to Sibwings standards on the L-19. . .the product itself is fine, no real complaints there, but I had several questions related to paint kits and texture corrections and that's where this company simply doesn't seem to care. It would take all of a few minutes to put an answer together for what I've requested and yet they can't seem to muster the time it takes to even do that much.

[Willy]

Ed, sounds like they missed the memo about how 3rd party repaints can increase sales of their product.

[pilto von pilto]

Ed, sounds like they missed the memo about how 3rd party repaints can increase sales of their product.

In 17 years of business,we have yet to see any concrete evidence that repaints increase sales.

[jeansy]

In 17 years of business,we have yet to see any concrete evidence that repaints increase sales.

sometimes poorly detailed and mapped paintkits or models where alpha and spec mapping properties are different across the mdl could be a factor

just saying

as ive seen lots of posts from products with good paint kits where people have stated because of 3rd party paints by other they purchased the product

painters dont care if developers dont care

just saying

[bazzar]

sometimes poorly detailed and mapped paintkits or models where alpha and spec mapping properties are different across the mdl could be a factor

just saying

as ive seen lots of posts from products with good paint kits where people have stated because of 3rd party paints by other they purchased the product

painters dont care if developers dont care

just saying

only interested in the facts.

just saying

[scotth6]

In 17 years of business,we have yet to see any concrete evidence that repaints increase sales.


In 8 years of flight simming I have purchased a number of aircraft due to one or more excellent repaints. It is not every time I buy an aircraft, but it has been the deciding factor on more than one occasion. The reverse is also true. I have passed on aircraft, which are not study sim aircraft anyway, if there are no interesting paints or if I think the paints I see don't look that good.

That is just me. I'm not going to speak for anyone else, and I definitely won't speak for an industry.

[DaveQ]

only interested in the facts.

just saying

Are there well established facts? Can you reference any sound market research? All here is anecdotal based on contradictory personal experience. But, as a painter, I feel disappointed developers represented here seem to regard free repaints as of such little significance or merit. A lot of research and effort goes into what I do and it frequently markedly improves (at least in my own, biased, view) what some developers have had us pay for. Still I do it because it's my hobby and for my own satisfaction.

Just saying.....

DaveQ

[bbrz]

Following the logic that the success of an addon depends on the availability of repaints/paintkit e.g. Alabeo/Carenado would out of business since quite some time now.

[ColoKent]

Good topic....And one that is a factor in this hobby on a daily basis.

I have no experience with BlackBox. That said however, there are certainly behavior patterns and attitudes on display from some payware developers that seem to reflect either a lack of business acumen, or the influence of a particular ethos/ideology/mindset that is more of a hobby than a business mentality. Other developers are fantastic in the support and communications arena...It seems to be a case of "YMMV" - Your Milage May Vary".

While this is occasionally annoying, I tend to chalk it up to the "artist" factor...since the gorgeous aircraft being produced today are often nothing short of art.

Kent

[jeansy]

Following the logic that the success of an addon depends on the availability of repaints/paintkit e.g. Alabeo/Carenado would out of business since quite some time now.

how?, theres heaps of paints for the both of them, maybe nothing you like but there are more than enough painters like Jankees, Ron Attwood & Dirk just to name a few have done dozens, actually more than whats out there for AH

I can recall a post of "Whats wrong with my Dc3 package" from a certain dev,


just saying......

[wombat666]

Settle down team.
Play nice or not at all.
:173go1:

[huub vink]

In real life I have a profession where we verify everything what is said or stated has evidence to support this.

When the Aeroplane Heaven company states that they haven't seen any evidence that repaints promote sails, than they are correct. Just because because there is no evidence. This however does not imply that repaints not contribute to sales, but the fact is, that nobody ever did any specific and solid research on this subject.

My personal feeling however is that repaints significantly add to how people enjoy models. For the repainters (like me), because it enables them to perform their hobby, but also for the "virtual flying" customers who choose their favourite livery. When I see how many request I have had over the years, I think I have enough evidence in my mailbox to prove that its important enough for people to fly their "own" favourite livery to write en e-mail to somebody they don't even know.

And also for myself, I often also prefer greats repaints by the people here above the default liveries.

For a company I can imagine sales are more important, but for me, I enjoy it when I can provide somebody the small pleasure of flying his or her own livery.

No evidence to support this, but just my personal, somewhat biased, opinion.

Cheers,
Huub

[flaviossa]

More than one time i bought an aircraft just because works of repainters here at SOH like Jankees, Zsolt, Rick, etc. Thinking again, MANY times! So, yes, this happens a lot but logicaly there is no evidence to support it.

About the OP question: stay away from Blackbox products. Just issues after issues starting with their 737-200 wich sells thru JF store. I did a complete feedback to them about this plane and sent to BB. The only answer i got: "It´s not our problem. Ask JF to pay for the corrections". Ok, goodbye!

[blanston12]

I must admit that the availability of repaints does effect my decision. I am usually not interested in the repaints themselves, its more a vote of confidence in the model. If lots of people think its good enough to make repaints for it, its more likely a good model. But would never not buy one because repaints are not available, unless all the stock paints are very ugly that is, I am usually happy if there is one that looks nice.

[bbrz]

how?, theres heaps of paints for the both of them, maybe nothing you like but there are more than enough painters like Jankees, Ron Attwood & Dirk just to name a few have done dozens, actually more than whats out there for AH
I do stand corrected! I always read the complaints that mapping of Alabeo/Carenado planes makes them basically unpaintable and that there's no layered paintkit either.
Just found out that there are more than 800 at Avsim only for Carenado planes!

Never noticed that because for me, IRL as well, pure white planes are always the most elegant ones.

[Bjoern]

As far as I know, Blackbox is just a two-man company and not even run full time. And Graham, one of the devs, answered Ed's inquiry just yesterday.

[bazzar]

Of course there is no doubt that re-paints enhance the hobby, of course they do. That is not the point. The point was, do they increase sales? We have no evidence or facts that they do, based on our 17 years of business operations.

Bjoern, many developers are just a couple of people, and that is another misunderstanding out there.

[fsafranek]

Bjoern, many developers are just a couple of people, and that is another misunderstanding out there.
Sometimes it's less than that.
:ernaehrung004:

[Willy]

I do stand corrected! I always read the complaints that mapping of Alabeo/Carenado planes makes them basically unpaintable and that there's no layered paintkit either.
Just found out that there are more than 800 at Avsim only for Carenado planes!

Never noticed that because for me, IRL as well, pure white planes are always the most elegant ones.

I can't say much about Carenado in FSX and admittedly the Alabeo Gee Bee isn't what I'd call complex but it's the Alabeo product I have the most experience with. But I didn't have much problem figuring the mapping out on it and did up my own paint kit for it. Actually it was the one that I really learned how to paint for FSX on.

[BrittMac]

I'm pretty disappointed in BlackBox. I have a friend that has a L-19 that I have had the pleasure of flying in. I jumped at the chance to have a good one in FSX, since the abacus one is crap.

But, the installation process is silly, and because of that, I have a temporary install instead of a regular install of the plane. I can fly the Bird dog that I paid for, but, only for a few minutes. I have sent multiple requests to the contact us section of their website. I have received precisely zero responses. I never received a "key" or anything (you get what I mean if you know the BBox installer). Also, I have checked my "spam" folder and there has never been an FS related response there.

I am going to chalk up my $15 as my first real loss in the FS game. And I've been playing the FS game for 20 years.
If BBox were to man up and actually answer me, I would change my tune. Until then, I will be happy to tell people how poor they are in a customer service standpoint. They are sucking a lot.

[Wim]

The same experience here with their scottish bulldog, not able to install properly, nada response.

[SpaceWeevil]

I also had installation problems with Blackbox (Bulldog) but had a swift response from graham@blackboxsimulation.com. I agree the whole installation / preflight manager malarkey is a pain but the Bulldog is quite decent. I agree there's no excuse for poor customer service and failure to reply, just saying that my problem was sorted quickly.

[BrittMac]

I also had installation problems with Blackbox (Bulldog) but had a swift response from graham@blackboxsimulation.com. I agree the whole installation / preflight manager malarkey is a pain but the Bulldog is quite decent. I agree there's no excuse for poor customer service and failure to reply, just saying that my problem was sorted quickly.

I'll try that email addy out. Maybe their "contact us" button is broken some how. I have had that happen on a website I had in the past.

[Bjoern]

Bjoern, many developers are just a couple of people, and that is another misunderstanding out there.

My army of clones begs to differ, but they're AWOL instead of doing development work, so yep, it's a pretty lonely job...

[hairyspin]

My army of clones begs to differ, but they're AWOL instead of doing development work...

That's not your lot skinny-dipping the Tiergarten ponds?? :biggrin-new:

[Bjoern]

That's not your lot skinny-dipping the Tiergarten ponds?? :biggrin-new:

Nope. I bet mine are all over the country's museums and airports doing inappropriate stuff to the aircraft displayed/parked there.

[IanP]

Just to chip in here, I do seem to remember that there was a problem with the "contact us" on their website that caused it not to work, or Graham not to receive it, or something. I'm sure I discussed it with him by e-mail.

I've never had a problem communicating with Graham directly. That said, I got the A320, which I never feel was really finished, and decided that I wouldn't be getting any more from them. The Bulldog is tempting, but at present, not tempting enough.

Ian P.

[Cees Donker]

Of course there is no doubt that re-paints enhance the hobby, of course they do. That is not the point. The point was, do they increase sales? We have no evidence or facts that they do, based on our 17 years of business operations.

Bjoern, many developers are just a couple of people, and that is another misunderstanding out there.

I guess you're back on the forum? Welcome back!

:wavey:

Cees

[BrittMac]

Just to chip in here, I do seem to remember that there was a problem with the "contact us" on their website that caused it not to work, or Graham not to receive it, or something. I'm sure I discussed it with him by e-mail.

I've never had a problem communicating with Graham directly. That said, I got the A320, which I never feel was really finished, and decided that I wouldn't be getting any more from them. The Bulldog is tempting, but at present, not tempting enough.

Ian P.

I used the email for Graham and got an answer very quickly. He did say that there was a problem with the contact us link.
Hopefully he will have me up and running soon.

[bazzar]

I guess you're back on the forum? Welcome back!

:wavey:

Cees


Hi Cees, well I've already got my bottom spanked by Huub, but we'll see how things go.:wavey:

[Desert Rat]

Hi Cees, well I've already got my bottom spanked by Huub, but we'll see how things go.:wavey:

Ooh Matron, lucky you. How would one go about getting such a delight? LOL. Good to see you Baz.

Just remember the silent majority speaks volumes, If you listen carefully enough it's much louder than the few outspoken naysayers.

Jamie