F-94B Starfire

[Allen]

I started rebuilding Piglet's T-33A to a F-94B as a request for CFS2 but interest has gone for it. CFS2 and Jet engines do NOT get along. I loaded the F-94B into FS04 just fine using Piglet's T-33A parts but I have never worked in FS04 and my laptop whining and crying the whole time with FS04.

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I would hate all of the work to go to waste. Would it be okay to upload the F-94B using all Piglet's T-33A parts and maybe down the line some one can rework the flight dynamics to add an afterburner?

4902449025

[Mick]

I think that's a question for Piglet.

If it's OK with him, I'm sure one of our flight model wizards could cook up an acceptable set of flight files. (I wish I could do that!)

In a pinch I suppose we could adapt the flight files from a plane with similar performance. I hope this can happen!

[Allen]

Piglet has been out since 2012 and the email in his read me is dead as I get a failure to deliver with it....

This may be a case where I upload it with a note in my read me that I tried to mail him and I release all my work to Piglet as my edits are built on his original work.

[Bjoern]

If I can't contact an author for a permission, I simply credit him/her in my readme. So yep, go for it!
Maybe someone will pick it up.

[SSI01]

The work so far shows it to be a beauty so I hope someone will pick this one up and run with it.

[Allen]

I started packing up the F-94 for upload following SOP for any aircraft I rebuild. The original readmes have been put into the original_readmes folder and credit to original author in my read me.

I made and added the last 2 LODs to the model. At this point I think things are done as I can get them for the most part.

[Mick]

Piglet has been out since 2012 and the email in his read me is dead as I get a failure to deliver with it....

This may be a case where I upload it with a note in my read me that I tried to mail him and I release all my work to Piglet as my edits are built on his original work.

I didn't realize that Piglet was out of the hobby. I just figured he'd gone over to the dark side (FSX).

Since you made the effort to contact him, and since he released the plane as freeware for everyone to have, I agree that it would be OK to release your mods with proper credit. I doubt that he would mind.

Hmmmm... have you considered putting the early F-94A/B nose on it after you finish the C-model? That would give us a version not available elsewhere, and the one that actually had a combat record. Just a thought...

[Allen]

Mick
This is a A/B model.

[SSI01]

A/B model had that little upturned nose vice the C's straightforward, symmetrical nose, also non-swept horizontal stabs.

[Allen]

Models 3 view.

49094

I know it isn't 100% right. If anyone is interested in the gMax model let me know.

[Mick]

Mick
This is a A/B model.

I see! I dunno why I thought it was an F-94C. I shoulda took a closer look at the pictures you posted!

This could get me going on a bunch of skins for some of the may Air National Guard units that flew the F-94A/B. My local Guard unit just up the road from here was one.

[Scale Dail]

Thank you for releasing it! I can make it fly right with some work! Alas the spay painting equipment in the garage will not work on it though. Amazing skill to change existing models into something else!

[Allen]

Do you need the textures in another format? Change existing models is what I seem to do most. Use of Model Converter X to get the model made into a .3ds that gMax can load than go to work. Animation and smoothing are lost but texture mapping is left intact.

[Mick]

Thank you!

What a surprise! I had no idea you were so close to being finished! I've barely begun to marshal my resources. My hobby time is limited right now but I will get my references together and get started. I foresee some regular Air Force skins and some Air Guard ones. Maybe some test and development schemes too.

I see that the textures are in extended 16-bit format, which I think loses detail in the sim, but they're convertible to 32-bit with one click when saved in DXTbmp. I'll simply save my skins in 32-bit like I always do.

I take it that the textures are the same as the original T-33 textures except for the radar nose and other external differences from the T-33? I might steal a different silver base from some other T-33 skins. We'll see...

Corey, if you'll make it fly right, I'll make it look pretty.

I'm really looking forward to painting this plane. I've been wishing for an early F-94 for years! I never really expected one; that's probably why I thought I saw a C-model when I first looked at the images early in the thread without my reading glasses on.

[Mick]

... I know it isn't 100% right. If anyone is interested in the gMax model let me know.

Sure looks like an F-94 to me. And this time I looked at it with my reading glasses on!

As we used to say when modeling in plastic, if it looks right, it is right.

[Switchblade408]

Will this work in FSX?

[Allen]

Mick
The differences are Nose, Tail including rudder and the horizontal stablers.

Switchblade408
Not sure as I know nothing about converting FS04 to FSX. It is made in gMax using the FS04 SDK. If someone from FSX would like the gMax source let me know.

[Mick]

Mick
The differences are Nose, Tail including rudder and the horizontal stablers.

Yep, that's about what I figured.

I see that the model is not reflective, which it should be to best show off those nifty fifties bare metal liveries. That will change quickly. I made my copy of the model reflective and the process ruined the VC, a not-uncommon side effect with some models. Not a problem, it can be fixed. Fixing it is beyond my capabilities, but a copy has been sent to l'Iguane, who knows how to fix it (and who is a far more talented painter than me!)

I have some Air Guard skins planned, and I can't wait to see what l'Iguane will come up with. He's already made that fantastic T-33 skin he just posted, and he's going to adapt it for the F-94.

BTW, if anyone's wondering about a suitable sound set, the F-94A and B (not the later C) were powered by an afterburning J-33, the same powerplant used by the F-86D. Some years ago David Wooster released a Dog Sabre with a sound set, and David seems to know what he's doing with sounds. That's what I'll be using for the early F-94.

The F-94 brings back memories of my childhood, when the local Air Guard squadron flew the A model and the local SAC base had a tenant ADC squadron of C models. They flew right over my childhood home every day.

This is gonna be great fun! I can't tell you how pleased I am that you did this conversion for us!
:ernaehrung004:

[l'iguane]

At first, a nice picture to help you reading through a complex situation
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49300&stc=1
F-94 bare metal template, in progress


As Mick kindly turned Allen's model into a reflective one (using Ivan Hsu "Shiny" or similar) he sent it to me so I could fix the usual issue, a shiny untextured VC texture.

First fact : the canopy lost its transparency (solid white from the VC VIEW, normal transparency from EXTERNAL VIEW)) and as expected, shiny untextured VC.

So I ran Hex Editor, as well as opening the panel.cfg to get the textures name of each [VC.XX] section.

ISSUE : while opening the "shined" F-94 mdl, Hex Editor displays the following : This file cannot be run in DOS mode
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49301&stc=1

I try locating the vc texture different name but I was unable to locate a XXXXXX.BMP at all as all the hexadecimal is a complete mess, nothing like usual shined mdl...
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49302&stc=1

[l'iguane]

Second issue :

I tried fixing the canopy transparency in VC view by using MDLMAT and coloring each part of the LOD2 (VC "model") and I found the canopy to be on LOD2 part 17
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49303&stc=1

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49305&stc=1

One major problem is, LOD2 part 17 is not only the canopy but the whole VC model...:banghead:

as shown here, there was no transparency, 255 alpha on diffuse color. So I set up 121 as reasonnable value of transparency.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49304&stc=1

[l'iguane]

And here is the result :

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49307&stc=1



So here are my thoughts, facts and (unsucessful) tries.


If Allen has ideas or suggestions I'd be really happy with it
JDTinballs, I think we need your Hex expertise :wavey:

Cheers

L'iguane

[Mach3DS]

Would anyone mind if I turned this model into a Native P3D model with reflection, bumps and specs, and fresnel?

[Allen]

l'iguane
Not sure why the VC canopy lost its transparency. The VC canopy is 1% transparent by Material settings and the rest of the transparency should be done by the t33_glass.bmp when in the VC. The untextured parts can be mapped onto a new texture with out much of a prob.

The "This file cannot be run in DOS mode" is done as I adjusted the collision bubble with Ivan Hsu MDLC.

000rick000
I have the the gMax source. I don't have FSX/Prepar3D. If you or some one want the gMax source that is fine. Just credit Piglet.

[l'iguane]

Hi Allen, thanks for these info, it makes sense now...

Not sure why the VC canopy lost its transparency. The VC canopy is 1% transparent by Material settings and the rest of the transparency should be done by the t33_glass.bmp when in the VC. The untextured parts can be mapped onto a new texture with out much of a prob.

-------> An idea of solution would be to map separately the canopy texture from the whole VC model ?


The "This file cannot be run in DOS mode" is done as I adjusted the collision bubble with Ivan Hsu MDLC.

What is the collision bubble ? Any chance I could push you the MDLMAT settings I experimentally applied and set them up directly from gmax before compilation ?


Cheers

L'iguane

[Allen]

The VC cockpit glass is mapped to t33_glass.bmp and is only used for that. The rest of the VC using the t33_02.bmp and t33_03.bmp for the inside of the cockpit and t33_01.bmp for the wings. That is why I can understand how the entire VC model is using the same Material MDLMAT.

No idea how to convert MDLMAT settings to gMax. I still use MDLC. Can MDLMAT settings be translated to MDLC Specular and Power settings?

The collision bubble is what is used to know if you crashed into an object or aircraft. The smaller the collision bubble is the closer you can get to something.

Below is a rework the model a bit to fix the intakes as part of them is not textured and a few other parts on the outside that wasn't textured.

49310

[jamminjames]

I flew this last night and it flies alright to me. Would love to see some paints!

[Mick]

Well, if it comes to that, I think we can make some decent looking bare metal textures without a reflective model.

But the original T-33 model is reflective and the VC is not, so that must mean that there's hope of making the F-94 reflective too.
I'll be able to use those most excellent reflective base textures.

[l'iguane]

Hello Allen,

Thanks or this update

One thought :

"The collision bubble is what is used to know if you crashed into an object or aircraft. The smaller the collision bubble is the closer you can get to something"

The "This file cannot be run in DOS mode" is done as I adjusted the collision bubble with Ivan Hsu MDLC.


As far as I understand, would it be possible to go back to the original "collision bubble" set up, or no collision at all. Should this be done, I think the MDL could be read on MDLMAT (We would not get the "this programm is unable to run on DOS mode") and that would solve our issue :running:


L'iguane

[Mach3DS]

I DEFINITELY would like the source and will give all credit to piglet! Thank you!

I worked the T-33X package with 2 other guys and made it native P3D. This would be on the same scale I think. And we would include tacpack as well.

[Desert Rat]

The interior of the VC glass shares a material with the rest of the VC model, this is not the case with the glass on the rest of the models, it has it's own transparent material. I'm sure you knew this though. You thus cannot add reflection to the VC model as the Alpha channel used for that is actually needed to provide the transparency instead.

Options are:

1. remove the reflection from the VC only. trial and error hex editing/scasm editing, long winded and time consuming.
2. Ask Allen nicely to assign the same glass material to the interior of the VC glass as the rest of the models glass. Easiest option.
3. Ask me to try and hex edit the model to do the same as above, considerably more complicated and you'd have to wait as I'm not set up entirely on my new computer.

regards,
Jamie

[Allen]

L'iguane
The model I put in my last post I did NOT use Ivan Hsu MDLC to adjusted the collision.

000rick000
Can you PM me and email and I will send you the model.

JDTinballs
The VC glass is to its own texture. Why it when white I have no idea check the model I put in my last post. Maybe a older model slipped got into the F-94B I uploaded by mistake. The one I attached dose have 1% transparent by Material settings.

[Desert Rat]

Okay, what is needed is to apply reflection to all the textures used in the VC bar the panel gauge planes and the glass bitmap (t33_glass.bmp?).

Thanks Allen.

L'iguane, are you able to do this? I do not have the relevant tools installed at the moment and not even sure if they work on W10 yet.

If not I'll look into it over the next few days.

Jamie

[l'iguane]

Thanks for the update.

I'll ask Mick to turn reflective the updated MDL Allen put on a few post ago, we'll see what comes up when opening it with MDLMAT and I'll keep you posted about the results.

I did a trial livery on the "old" model...starting to look good :adoration: still have a few adjustment to do, but the bare metal template are almost ready !

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49328&stc=1

Thanks again JDTinballs & Allen for your attentive help !

L'iguane

[Allen]

JDTinballs
No idea how to add reflection or shine in gMax. I'm from CFS2. True reflection maps are not supported and the need for shine in CFS2 is low and if needed was done in Mk MDLC. I'm still rebuilding my self. My XP is all but dead by failing HDD. Not sure if I can afford a new HDD and if it is really worth it as I have all of my needed tools working on Win7. Got MDLC back up with DOSBox.

l'iguane
I think the model that is currently in the Warbirds Library for download may have a VC canopy missing 1% transparent by material settings. I fought with this a half a dozen times when building the model. I know the one I posted in the thread has the 1% transparent by material settings.

[Thudman]

Allen

I had the same issue with VC canopy in the source model that you sent me. I just swapped it out with an external canopy and everything worked.

[Allen]

Thudman
Most of the time I don't use glass in the VC and never have had glass that uses an alpha layer. I have no prob dumping it my self as the VC glass is a pain in the :censored:. Was trying to stay true to the T-33A model.

[Scale Dail]

Sorry it's an IPhone pic of the screen. Sure it flies just like a T-33! Which it is not. I'm making progress but testing in real time. Making small changes, shooting for F-94B. I just saved my flight Edwards AFB to Kirtland AFB. Tanks should be nearing empty if I have the fuel draw right. Should be able to hit upper 40,000's when I get light. Back to it! FSX is the dark side won't touch it!

[Allen]

I tried messing with the shine with in gMax. I can not find any docs from MS on how this really works. All I found was a pic in the gmaxAircraftCreation.doc with no text on how the setting work.

49339

[Mick]

Allen, Please pardon me if I'm being too pedantic here, but I know you're mostly a CFS2 guy...

You may already know this, but in case you don't, there are two fundamentally different kinds of "shiny" in FS9.

One is specular gloss. It gives the plane a glossy surface that can be adjusted to anywhere from dead flat up through super glossy. This produces the kind of shine seen in glossy paint like you'd see on a car. It looks shiny but not metallic at all.

The other is reflection, and it produces a very different-looking metallic shine like the shine seen on natural metal surfaces. This can be adjusted too, to produce looks ranging from a slightly weathered but still metallic sheen to a highly polished mirror-like finish. Metallic reflectivity is what we need for those natural metal nifty fifties Air Force planes.

A model can have specular gloss and have reflections enabled at the same time, but for the present project all we need is reflection. In fact, the presence of more than a little specular gloss can spoil the effect of reflectivity.

Specular gloss doesn't affect anything else. Whether or not reflection is enabled does affect something else, the textures. When reflection is enabled, the alpha channel in the textures controls how shiny the finish will be, from no shine at all through a mirror finish. When reflection is not enabled, the alpha channel controls transparency, ranging from totally opaque through completely transparent.

The issue we have here happens when reflection is enabled and the VC becomes reflective as well as the external parts of the model. It doesn't happen with all models. Since the original T-33 is reflective and the VC isn't affected, it would seem that it must be possible to make the F-94 reflective without affecting the VC. It just takes someone much smarter than me to figure out how to do it.

I mention all this because I have the idea that CFS-2 doesn't present you with these choices, so I thought you might not be up to speed on them. I hope this helps.

[Mick]

Thanks for the update.

I'll ask Mick to turn reflective the updated MDL ...

Done, and sent to you a little while ago.

Great paint job! I recognize the 59th FIS livery that graces the box top of the Heller 1/72 plastic kit and the built up model on my shelf. I was hoping you'd paint that one because I really like it, and it might be a bit beyond my skill level to do it so well.

[l'iguane]

The CFS2 model turned reflective by Mick is now FIXED !

I fixed the VC following the usual process then reworked the canopy with MDLMAT to make it transparent on VC view.

New MDL attached


Cheers

L'iguane

[Mick]

:redfire: Woo-HOOO !!!!!

[l'iguane]

Hi everyone,

I just uploaded a starter pack for the F-94, including one livery from the 59th FIS, USAF as well as a set of templates/Alpha so more liveries can be done.
FS2004 military skin - cold war repertory

I may paint some more but I'm already on a schedule for completing the L-29 pack asap.

Cheers
L'iguane

[Mick]

We now have a model with reflections enabled and a beautiful skin for it, plus a bare metal texture set for us to paint on.

A little bird tells me that there's an updated flight model almost ready, and a new panel.cfg that will add an automatic afterburner gauge.

When all the bits are ready, they should all be put together to make an F-94B Version 2.

[Allen]

Glad to see things are making since and working out now.

Mick
The lack of doc about the material settings to add shine is not funny. Us CFS2er have always used MK MDLC for this. I do know about shine being done by texture but never done it as it isn't supported in CFS2.

Yes a F-94B Version 2 would be good!

[Mach3DS]

Thanks Allen!

exported to P3D...skin is placeholder for testing purposes only...a real one will be developed...bumps added and specular.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2862/33329099614_4617bc131b_o.jpg

[Mick]

...Mick, The lack of doc about the material settings to add shine is not funny. Us CFS2er have always used MK MDLC for this. I do know about shine being done by texture but never done it as it isn't supported in CFS2...

Well, I just think it's great to see folks from the CFS2 and FS9 communities working together. As for reflectivity in the textures, it's easy enough for a painter once they know how. All the FS9 modeler has to know is how to enable reflections, which isn't a CFS2 feature, and let the painters go at it from there. It's possible to depict silver finishes without reflection, though it has given me fits trying to depict silver paint, but for shiny natural metal, reflection can't be beat.

I can't wait to get my hands on l'Iguane's bare metal template, and his beautiful 59th FIS skin!

I know that there's a flight model being finished up that makes the plane faster than a T-33 and 'struggles to reach 42,000 feet" which sounds just about right for a plane with a nominal service ceiling of 42,750 feet. We should see that flight model posted soon if I can encourage the person who enhanced it that it's worth posting.

I'm told that someone else has been recruited to work on an automatic afterburner effect that will turn on when the throttle is fully opened and shut off when it's pulled back. If that can't be arranged, there is a manually triggered effect available.

I don't know anywhere but SOH where something could come together like this!

[l'iguane]

I don't know anywhere but SOH where something could come together like this!
I couldn't agree more :encouragement: many thanks to Allen and ScaleDail, seems this project got bigger than expected :jump:
Rick's plans about a portover and full P3D reworking sound like high potential too !

L'iguane

[Mick]

One done, many more to go!

61st FIS, Selfridge AFB, 1951

Opinions please - should it be shinier?

[Scale Dail]

The wheels of progress are turning! Slipping in the mud that is! I've been quietly tweeking air files for years and never uploaded anything before, but us old school simmers have to stick together!
I have a flight model that pretty much matches the real world numbers. But I'm still trying to get the takeoff and landing characteristics a little closer. The most challenging is to slow the take off acceleration and still get the top speed and altitude numbers. My afterburner light effect is borrowed from the old Alphasim F11F Tiger and it is taxi light activated.

[Scale Dail]

One done, many more to go!

61st FIS, Selfridge AFB, 1951

Opinions please - should it be shinier?

Wow! That looks great! This must be a Korean combat bird. Hope you have some Alaskan birds in the mix too! Gotta intercept those pesky TU-4's at 40,000'!

[Mick]

Wow! That looks great! This must be a Korean combat bird. Hope you have some Alaskan birds in the mix too! Gotta intercept those pesky TU-4's at 40,000'!

It's Korean War era, but not a Korean War participant. It was from the based at 61st FIS, based at Selfridge AFB in 1951. I don't know if right shark mouth was a squadron marking or just that one plane. I found two pictures but they were of the same plane.

I found photos of several different Korean War liveries, more than I expected considering how little the F-94 accomplished in that conflict.

I have references for several planes in each of the regular Air Force, the Air Guard, and Korea. Actually, more than just several in each of those three genres. I suppose I will go overboard painting skins, as I am wont to do. (But none of them will look as nice as l'Iguane's 59th FIS skin. But I'm using his base textures, so they'll look pretty good.

I think that 51st FIS plane needs to be shinier, but the image I posted came from the Select Aircraft screen. I'll check it out in the sim before I decide. A nice thing about reflective textures is that the degree of reflection can be adjusted so easily. A not so nice thing is that the degree of reflection might look quite different to someone using a different enviro.bmp file, or with different monitor settings.

Maybe they shouldn't all be equally shiny. Nice new regular Air Force planes were probably shinier than old, worn Air Guard planes or planes that have been left put on the ramp in Korean winter weather. Also, some planes had very discolored rear fuselages around the afterburner section, while others showed little or no discoloration. I'm sure that was due to a plane's age.

I'm looking forward to the final permutation of that tweaked flight model. Have you heard if there's been any progress towards making the afterburner effect automatic? With those items in place it will be time to put everything together for version 2. I suggest one good skin for that, l'Iguane's 51st FIS skin would be perfect, and I'll put up sink packs for Korea, Air Force and Air Guard. But I'm getting ahead of us now...

[Allen]

Got l'iguane texture and well I messed up. I left parts mapped in the wrong place. Parts of the gear and airbakes are red. I fixed this on the model and have the shine settings vary close to what model l'iguane uploaded has. Do wish some one would have noted it sooner but that is how things go some time.

Now to get some sleep. Up all night. It is now 6:30AM!

[Blackbird686]

Nice work on that one, Mick...

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49409&stc=1&d=1492814136

I have been trying to figure out how to get an effects controller to work for the afterburner and thrust effect I have for this plane. ScaleDail's afterburner effect looks very realistic so I used it, plugged in numerous effects controllers to try to get the AB to come on at 95% throttle instead of using the taxi lights switch but can't seem to get them to work. I added the effects controller gauge to existing VC entries, as well as set up a separate VC entry in the panel config for those, but no banana. The effects controllers I'm using work just fine in other models I've added them to, just not this one. Is the F-94B "effects controller proof?"

BB686:US-flag:

[Mick]

... I have been trying to figure out how to get an effects controller to work for the afterburner and thrust effect I have for this plane. ScaleDail's afterburner effect looks very realistic so I used it, plugged in numerous effects controllers to try to get the AB to come on at 95% throttle instead of using the taxi lights switch but can't seem to get them to work. I added the effects controller gauge to existing VC entries, as well as set up a separate VC entry in the panel config for those, but no banana. The effects controllers I'm using work just fine in other models I've added them to, just not this one. Is the F-94B "effects controller proof?" BB686:US-flag:

You're not the only one struggling with that feature. Supposedly Rob Barendregt's afterburner gauge will do it, but apparently it's not a very straightforward process or it would be done by now. ScaleDail is working on it, and he's enlisted some help from the Cal Classics crew. No results yet, last I heard, which was this morning. It's all beyond me...

[Mick]

Got l'iguane texture and well I messed up. I left parts mapped in the wrong place. Parts of the gear and airbakes are red. I fixed this on the model and have the shine settings vary close to what model l'iguane uploaded has. Do wish some one would have noted it sooner but that is how things go some time.

Now to get some sleep. Up all night. It is now 6:30AM!

Are you going to upload the fixed model, or wait for version 2 of the whole package?

I take it that we can still continue painting skins on the current model without having to go back and make changes later?

[Mick]

Another one done.

I decided to add more shininess. Did that to the other one, too. 131st FIS, Mass. ANG. Curious how the squadron insignia features a swept winged jet, when the unit never flew a swept wing aircraft until after their F-94 period.

More coming, but maybe not today...

[Allen]

Are you going to upload the fixed model, or wait for version 2 of the whole package?

I take it that we can still continue painting skins on the current model without having to go back and make changes later?



Here is the updated model now has alpha channel shine. The model is vary close to what l'iguane uploaded and includes his 59th FIS, USAF texture.

The mapping changes shouldn't effect any textures that are made.

49425

[Mick]

... The mapping changes shouldn't effect any textures that are made.

Excellent! I'm glad to hear that no changes will be needed on the existing skins. I will continue to paint new ones. Might have one more before I shut down for the evening.

[Mick]

OK, here's one more. It's from the 101st FIS, the other Massachusetts Air Guard squadron, down at the Boston end of the state.

That's all for today. More tomorrow, probably.

[Scale Dail]

Allen,
Thank you again for making this and sharing it with us! And thank you L'iguane, Mick and Tom.
I am done with the Air File and I am real happy with it! Taking off out of Thule Air Base looking for that Unidentified target. Sure is cold up here!

Sorry I cant share the Afterburnner effect but the Alphasim/Virtavia F11F Tiger FS2004 is a very good price and the effect is just perfect for this bird! My effect is Taxi light actuated.

So we need to put an upload together soon!

Now I want to convert my RC T-33 into an F-94B!

[Allen]

Got the aircraft.cfg from you Scale Dail. Ported all of the Take off, Climb, Cruise and Desent and Landing
data taken from F-94B Pilot's Handbook. Will see how it works out.

[Mick]

118th FIS, Connecticut ANG

[Allen]

Tried getting flight model to match the rear world book or close to it but NOPE. Where my chute I want out, Oh wait I'm sitting on it. *grab reject handle* :pop4:

[Mick]

Idaho & Minnesota Air Guard

That does it, I think, for the Air National Guard.

Next some active duty Air Force planes.

Soon. It's raining so I can't go out and play.

[Blackbird686]

Mick -- Those are absolutely gorgeous paints! Do you plan to upload them "soon"?

BB686:US-flag:

[Mick]

Mick -- Those are absolutely gorgeous paints! Do you plan to upload them "soon"?

BB686:US-flag:

Thank you!

I planned to upload them when the final version of the model is released. That way there won't be any last minute texture mapping changes to deal with. But that probably won't happen, so if version 2 of the model isn't ready when I finish painting, I'll go ahead and upload the skins.

I plan three sets of skins. The Air Guard planes are finished, unless someone comes up with a request for a plane from their local Air Guard unit and can provide photos, with color notes if the photo is black & white, and if there's a unit insignia graphic I can use if needed. I'm presently working on some regular Air Force planes. I have three of a planned four finished. I might finish the last one of those this evening since the ball game I was going to watch has been rained out.There will be some Korean War skins, but I have so much reference material on planes from so many units that sorting it all out and deciding what to paint will be a bit of a chore. And there's a NASA bird that doesn't fit with anything else.

Meanwhile, I know that work is being done on the flight model and the afterburner and maybe some other things, so I'm not in a rush. But I might have the skins painted in a few days, and if they're ready before the final release, I'll put them up anyway for use with the " starter kit" that L'iguane posted.

[Allen]

The model I attached-ed in post #58 should be the last one unless some one finds any bugs that needs to be fixed. The last texture mapping change was done because when I made the horizontal stabilizers bigger it overlapped with a few parts. I didn't see this until I had l'iguane texture.

Been fighting with a new air file still....

[Mick]

The model I attached-ed in post #58 should be the last one unless some one finds any bugs that needs to be fixed. The last texture mapping change was done because when I made the horizontal stabilizers bigger it overlapped with a few parts. I didn't see this until I had l'iguane texture. Been fighting with a new air file still....

That's what I figured; I thought the 3D model was finished, but I wasn't sure if anything else was anticipated.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Good luck with the flight model!

[Mick]

Well, I didn't get any painting done last evening but I learned some things. Or re-learned, I should say.

In an earlier post I mentioned that there seemed to have been quite a few F-94 units in the conflict and that they didn't seem to have accomplished much. Last evening I went over my references and re-read an article in an old Wings/Airpower issue and found that my impressions were wrong on both counts.

In fact there were only two F-94 squadrons in Korea, and only one at a time. My quick skim of the references led me astray, as one of the squadrons used flight colors in a rather elaborate manner that suggested squadrons in a group rather than flights in a squadron, and markings standards changed some as the war progressed. That's why my quick perusal gave the impression of multiple squadrons.

As for their accomplishments, I recalled reading in multiple sources that the F-94 was limited to local air base defense because the Air Force wouldn't allow its top secret radar to be flown over hostile territory, lest a shoot-down present the enemy with a radar set, limiting the F-94's combat to attempts to shoot down Po-2 "bed-check Charlies." But that was only in the beginning. Later in the war the F-94s flew night fighter escort for B-29 raids over North Korea. They engaged night flying MiGs and shot some down. Aside from actual combat, on many occasions MiG interception flights were recalled without attacking when their radar controllers learned of the presence of the F-94s. So they actually accomplished quite a lot.

Anyway, it's raining again this morning. If it's still raining when I get back from my mid-day dentist appointment I will start to paint Korean War skins.

[Mick]

OK, here's the first Korean War skin, a flight leader from the 68th FIS.

The 68th had a very unique and colorful way of decorating their tip tanks in flight colors, and I was planning to paint one from each flight, red, blue and yellow. Alas, there's a minor mapping glitch in the rear part of one tip tank that makes it impossible to paint the colors like the68th FIS did. I struggled for hours, pixel by pixel, and finally had to give up.

I found this plane that didn't have the tip tank treatment depicted in a profile in the Squadron Signal book, Air War Over Korea. Artwork is notoriously unreliable ("artistic license") so I can't be sure the plane really lacked the tip tank motif or if the artist just missed it, perhaps working from a photo that had the tanks cropped out.

Since the glitch is on the top part of the rear end of the tank, I'm considering taking a bit of artistic license myself and altering the way the colors go on the back end of the tanks. We'll see about that.

Meanwhile, I'll get started on a plane from the other squadron that fought in Korea, the 319th FIS. Their markings were simple and all their planes looked pretty much alike except for a thin stripe of color on the tail, so I'll only paint one of their planes.

Yesterday I took a break from struggling with tip tanks and painted a NACA/NASA plane, simple and easy but attractive in its elegance.

By the way, after about a gazillion times loading the plane into the sim to check painting progress, I finally noticed a little error in the UI section of the aircraft.cfg file. The file reads Type = F-94B Starfire, but the A and B models weren't called that. Only the C-model, which was originally designated F-97, carried the name Starfire. The early models were just called F-94.

Anyway, here are the NACA plane and the 68th FIS plane. One from the 319th FIS will follow, though probably not today. Then maybe some slightly "artistically licensed" planes from the 68th FIS with their full color regalia.

[Allen]

Where is the glitch at? I see nothing wrong with Piglet mapping.

[Mick]

Where is the glitch at? I see nothing wrong with Piglet mapping.

It's a tiny little bit near the back end of the left tip tank, near the top, on the inboard side. A line drawn through a certain little spot comes up jagged. If I put one pixel of a color in that area on the texture, that color shows up in two pixels on the model in the sim. It's only on the left tank, and I think it's only on the top (I didn't get around to trying that same curved line on the bottom of the tank, where it also was on the real plane.)

I'd post a screenie of it but I've already deleted those texture files.

I don't know if you can fix that sort of thing, or if only Piglet with the source file could fix it. More importantly, I don't know if it's worth the effort even if you can fix it. I think maybe it's not. I remember from when I was working with David, texturing his planes, little glitches like that would come up from time to time and they were a real pain in the butt to fix. Sometimes it took days of tedious fiddling.

It's not like we won't have enough F-94B skins. I will have painted over a dozen when I'm finished, even without one from every flight of the 68th FIS.

If I really feel compelled to paint those skins (and I think I may) I have figured out a way to work around the glitchy spot to produce a motif that's not 100% authentic but very plausible and will look fine on the model. Just gotta swing by the license bureau and renew my artistic license.

[Allen]

Update/test time again!

After a crash course in FS04 jet engines I have something that should work. The info from Scale Dail earlier aircraft.cfg was helpful as it showed me what could be done in the config but I had to give up on Piglet's air file. Something about its drag is wrong. I dropped in the stock CFS2 P-38F and started reworking it.

I was able to "persuade" the jet engines to be more J-33-A-33 like but not able to get it fully like how it should be. Likes to over RPM flying at sea level and loss of RPM is still seen at high ALT. Everything else looks to be in the "okay" range.

Includes a checklist with all of the Take off, Climb, Cruise and Descent and Landing info.

Mick
Think I found what you where talking about and fixed it. New model is included.

49629

[Mick]

49629[/ATTACH]

Thanks! I will try to find time to make another attempt today and let you know how it turns out. If not today, then no later than tomorrow.

Great news about the flight model!

[Mick]

Allen, your fix worked!

It may take me a couple days to finish the affected skins, bu I did a preliminary test and was able to put the color demarkation line right there and it shows up properly.

[Mick]

OK, the Korean War skins are finished, with a big Thanks to Allen for making it possible to paint the 68th FIS skins accurately.

Here the 68th FIS planes are, with their trim in flight colors, and one from the 319th FIS. They were in Korea longer than the 68th, and after the restrictions were lifted that had made the 68th's F-94 operations an exercise in futility. But alas for us modelers, they painted all their planes the same except for that little tail stripe in the flight color.

Yeah, two flight leaders of Blue Flight. Both are authentic. The one from the 319th was significant, as it scored the first F-94 victory, a night kill of a Lagg-9 over North Korea. Pure luck that I had a good color photo of the 68th FIS plane and was able to us the blue flight leader bands again. The fuselage stripe ending in three different places on the three planes is just how it was. Photos show that there was no consistency with that detail from plane to plane.

Anyone who has a stash of old Wings/Airpower magazine should dig out the April 1988 issue of Wings. A long article about the F-94 in Korea fills most of the issue, and there are scads of color photos. I hadn't read it since it was fresh off the newsstand (who's old enough to remember newsstands?) and I'd forgotten most of what's in it. Many books and articles mention how the F-94 operations of the 68th FIS (who scored the war's first aerial victories in the F-82 Twin Mustang) was hamstrung by regulations forbidding them from flying over hostile territory lest their top secret radar fall into enemy hands. Warren Thompson's article tells of what happened after the restriction was lifted and the 319th started flying bomber escort missions to protect the B-29s from night flying Migs. (There was no radar equipped MiG-15 night fighter, but Russian radar controllers could vector the MiGs to the bombers in conditions of decent visibility.)

OK, I'll be quiet now...

[l'iguane]

OK, the Korean War skins are finished, with a big Thanks to Allen for making it possible to paint the 68th FIS skins accurately.

Here the 68th FIS planes are, with their trim in flight colors, and one from the 319th FIS. They were in Korea longer than the 68th, and after the restrictions were lifted that had made the 68th's F-94 operations an exercise in futility. But alas for us modelers, they painted all their planes the same except for that little tail stripe in the flight color.

Yeah, two flight leaders of Blue Flight. Both are authentic. The one from the 319th was significant, as it scored the first F-94 victory, a night kill of a Lagg-9 over North Korea. Pure luck that I had a good color photo of the 68th FIS plane and was able to us the blue flight leader bands again. The fuselage stripe ending in three different places on the three planes is just how it was. Photos show that there was no consistency with that detail from plane to plane.

Anyone who has a stash of old Wings/Airpower magazine should dig out the April 1988 issue of Wings. A long article about the F-94 in Korea fills most of the issue, and there are scads of color photos. I hadn't read it since it was fresh off the newsstand (who's old enough to remember newsstands?) and I'd forgotten most of what's in it. Many books and articles mention how the F-94 operations of the 68th FIS (who scored the war's first aerial victories in the F-82 Twin Mustang) was hamstrung by regulations forbidding them from flying over hostile territory lest their top secret radar fall into enemy hands. Warren Thompson's article tells of what happened after the restriction was lifted and the 319th started flying bomber escort missions to protect the B-29s from night flying Migs. (There was no radar equipped MiG-15 night fighter, but Russian radar controllers could vector the MiGs to the bombers in conditions of decent visibility.)

OK, I'll be quiet now...


:applause: Great Job !

[Blackbird686]

Outstanding brushwork, Mick. And historically correct too, just the way I like them. :encouragement:

BB686:US-flag:

[Mick]

Outstanding brushwork, Mick. And historically correct too, just the way I like them. :encouragement:

BB686:US-flag:

Thanks! You can't see in the screenies, but I picked two of the 68th FIS planes to paint because they had names on the nose gear doors. I picked the third one just because the fuselage stripe was a different length than the other two. I picked the 319th FIS plane because it made the first F-94 kill. I just got lucky that two had blue flight leader stripes in the same place. Lucky because the stripes go in five places on the texture: the two fuselage sides, the bottom, and across the two blow-in doors. Making them all line up was a bit of a chore.

That old article with page after page of color photos was a godsend!

[Mick]

OK, the paint packs are zipped up and ready.

I'm not going to release them until the full version 2 release because some of the skins need the latest version of the model, the one that's only available to those of us following this thread. No sense causing confusion for everyone else.

I see that someone has posted a CFS-2 skin based on the original non-reflective textures derived from Piglet's originals. So there is some interest among the CFS-2 crowd. Looks like someone's getting ready to go Bear hunting.

That makes me think about putting a static model of a Bear with its gear up and props turning, at 30,000 feet off Cape Cod, heading down the coast towards New York. We couldn't shoot it down in FS but we could try to find it. They didn't shoot down the Bears anyway during the Cold War, they just intercepted them and took pictures. Too bad I don't know how to make a contrail effect attached to it. That would make it plausible to actually find it, and make it look more real.

It could be an AI bear, but the chances of ever finding a moving AI plane in flight are probably about zero. At least with a static Bear we'd always know where to look for it.

[Blackbird686]

Given a possible location, altitude, air speed and heading... it would still be a real challenge to find a Tu-142 Bear (as big as it is) in the vast virtual skies of FS. Maybe set up a pop-up gauge panel using the "F-16 Radar" by Marciano in the F-94B, once you are at the general location of where the Bear was last seen, the radar would pinpoint it's location... I suppose.

BB686:US-flag:

[Mick]

OK, for those who can't wait, feel free to grab the skins from my A-Drive.

Be sure to also take the model & common textures, just to make sure you have the latest model and the complete set of textures.

You can tell from the links which zip file is which. (The NACA plane is in the USAF archive.)

https://www.adrive.com/public/XDUpk9/Model%20%26%20Common%20Textures.zip (https://www.adrive.com/public/XDUpk9/Model%20%26%20Common%20Textures.zip)

https://www.adrive.com/public/ESYthg/f94ang.zip (https://www.adrive.com/public/ESYthg/f94ang.zip)

https://www.adrive.com/public/Qjef6v/f94korea.zip (https://www.adrive.com/public/Qjef6v/f94korea.zip)

https://www.adrive.com/public/f9bXWc/f94usaf.zip (https://www.adrive.com/public/f9bXWc/f94usaf.zip)

[llanning08]

Abacus Vietnam Carrier Ops comes with an ai TU-95 BEAR. You would need to build appropriate ai Traffic routes.

[SSI01]

OK, for those who can't wait, feel free to grab the skins from my A-Drive.

Be sure to also take the model & common textures, just to make sure you have the latest model and the complete set of textures.

You can tell from the links which zip file is which. (The NACA plane is in the USAF archive.)

https://www.adrive.com/public/XDUpk9/Model%20%26%20Common%20Textures.zip (https://www.adrive.com/public/XDUpk9/Model%20%26%20Common%20Textures.zip)

https://www.adrive.com/public/ESYthg/f94ang.zip (https://www.adrive.com/public/ESYthg/f94ang.zip)

https://www.adrive.com/public/Qjef6v/f94korea.zip (https://www.adrive.com/public/Qjef6v/f94korea.zip)

https://www.adrive.com/public/f9bXWc/f94usaf.zip (https://www.adrive.com/public/f9bXWc/f94usaf.zip)


Many thanks for your efforts. All the skins are GREAT!

[Allen]

One last test. This packs all of the past parts into one pack and has new sounds. Still using the basic edit of the Piglet's original texture but with l'iguane and Mick textures now out you have options.

If all is good I will put up Version 2 soon.

[Mick]

One last test. This packs all of the past parts into one pack and has new sounds. Still using the basic edit of the Piglet's original texture but with l'iguane and Mick textures now out you have options.

If all is good I will put up Version 2 soon.

Has there been any progress with the automated afterburner effect?

I thought L'Iguane's 59th FIS skin was going to be the stock skin. He is correcting an error in the markings (probably done by now) and I thought he was going to send the new texture file to you. Maybe he'll just re-release it as a stand-alone skin. I think it's the nicest looking skin of all of them.

[Mick]

Abacus Vietnam Carrier Ops comes with an ai TU-95 BEAR. You would need to build appropriate ai Traffic routes.

There's are freeware Bears available. In my hangar I have two models by Vlad Zy, a Tu-95KM and a Tu-95MS, and two models by Samdim Designs, a Tu-19M and a Tu-142M packaged together.

I don't think I'll bother with AI. I'd have to figure out where to start them from and end them at (Cuba, I suppose, at one end) but getting the flight track in the right place over the Northeast US would be a Bear (sorry, couldn't help myself) and then it would always be on the move, covering lots of distance at high speed. I'd never be able to find it. A static model would be simple to place and at least I'd have some idea where to look for it at any time. Might not be able to find it anyway though. Probably not worth the trouble.

[Blackbird686]

Even with the latest effects controller, borrowed from the F-5A, it's still only actuated by a key stroke rather than a percentage on the throttle. So either I'm doing something wrong or that's just how it is. I set up a button on my joystick for "reheat" from the FS Settings in the sim. I'm not real adept at re-coding that part of the overall effects, but I'm still plugging away and hopefully I'll find another model in my library I can borrow from that will work for the F-94B.

BB686:US-flag:

[Mick]

OK, here's another way that might hold us over until someone gets an automatic effect working, hopefully one that affects the engine's power output as well as making pretty exhaust flames.

Meanwhile, here 's a way to produce those pretty exhaust flames.

It's a manual effect using the [Smokesystem] section of the aircraft.cfg file. The zip file includes the [Smokesystem] section to patch into your cfg file, as well as two effect files that I can't credit because I have no idea where they came from.

You hit the smoke key ("I") and you hear a satisfying WHUMP! and the exhaust comes out looking like this:

[Blackbird686]

Thanks Mick! Usually positioning of the "light" effect within the model can be a chore as well. You saved me a little time here, mate. Bob Chicolo is a master at creating/modifying effects for different planes as well as FDE and panel work. I may seek his advice on how to get the afterburner to work with an effects controller rather than a key stroke. I've pretty much run the gauntlet with that. :dizzy:

BB686:US-flag:

[Blackbird686]

I got the afterburner to work via throttle settings using the RCBAREND effects controller... :redfire: NO MORE BUTTONS OR KEYSTROKES, fellas... All I have to do is re-position the light effect so that is appears in the exhaust cone, rather than out to the left of the aircraft. Once I get the whole kit working properly one should be able to use any light effect for the afterburner.... and I got plans for this little jet. I'll share it with you chaps once it's finalized.

BB686:US-flag:

[Mick]

I got the afterburner to work via throttle settings using the RCBAREND effects controller... :redfire: NO MORE BUTTONS OR KEYSTROKES, fellas... All I have to do is re-position the light effect so that is appears in the exhaust cone, rather than out to the left of the aircraft. Once I get the whole kit working properly one should be able to use any light effect for the afterburner.... and I got plans for this little jet. I'll share it with you chaps once it's finalized.
BB686:US-flag:

Excellent !!!
:ernaehrung004:

I was sure it could be done, but it was a bit over my head and I couldn't figure out how to do it. I had Rob B's stuff installed and tried to apply it but got no results, and figuring out why it didn't work was completely beyond me...

A week or so ago I thought of the smoke system method, but I didn't do it because I knew an automatic system was being worked on. I shoulda knew that as soon as I worked out the manual method, someone would succeed with an automatic one. If I'd done it sooner you probably still would've succeeded immediately after.

[Blackbird686]

No worries, mate. I have been working off and on with the AB effect and knew that either someone would get it right before I did or that I'd actually figure it out....

Anyway, it's ready for anyone who wants it. I consider it a preliminary project because I still have to code in the thrust on afterburner effect, (When the can lights up, the model should visibly accelerate in the spot view). I used your recent light effect with the RCB Gauges afterburner gauge, and the entry is in one of the VC entries in the panel config. Works like a charm.... maybe by the time V2.0 is ready, I'll have the whole bit set to go.

I'm a little curious about the F-94B and the way it handled, in all aspects of operation.. so I'm off to dig up what I can on the aircraft. The model seems a bit splashy in flight, but here again I'm not familiar with the "B" model. Don't let your mind wander too much while you're flying her in on approach, say about 3 - 4 miles out. Keep the throttle up and keep her trimmed... watch the glideslope! If you don't pay absolutely 100% attention to her and what you're doing... she'll just try her best to kill you.... lol!!

BB686:US-flag:

[Allen]

Here are some already made gauges for the Afterburner. They are for FS02 and FS04. http://ww71.tiki.ne.jp/~water-t/page005.html

The auto Afterburner is going to have probs. The flight model as is need 100% throttle to fly at high Alt. While at low Alt is is close to the real world and 97% of max RPM is the max continuous use setting. I beat my head into wall trying to make since of the engine but unless some one else can rework the engine an auto Afterburner may be best left out.

A clickable Afterburner light may be what we need for now.

Blackbird686
The F-94 fly like a dog because I reworked the fuel tanks. Piglet had the Wings and Tip Tanks as one tank 10 feet from center (Really 2 tanks a left and right wing tank). I made each tip tank have the own data and moved them out to the wing tips.

With the Tip Tanks full it likes to keep rolling. This make landing vary un-fun if you need to roll a little at all.

[Mick]

I got the afterburner to work via throttle settings using the RCBAREND effects controller... :redfire: NO MORE BUTTONS OR KEYSTROKES, fellas... All I have to do is re-position the light effect so that is appears in the exhaust cone, rather than out to the left of the aircraft. Once I get the whole kit working properly one should be able to use any light effect for the afterburner.... and I got plans for this little jet. I'll share it with you chaps once it's finalized.
BB686:US-flag:

OK, I sent the NACA jet back out to Edwards and tested your afterburner. As advertised, it comes on or goes off a second or so after the throttle passes the 90% point. It comes on with a soft WHUMP!

I have no idea whether real afterburners go WHUMP! when they ignite, but I like the sound.

It doesn't push me back in my seat, but that's OK; my desk chair is on casters.

[jamminjames]

Many thanks for your efforts. All the skins are GREAT! Outstanding paints. Gotta hanger full now. Thanks....

[Thudman]

Don't know about the Allison jets engine afterburners but the early P&W engines did go Whump or bang due to the AB ignition system. P&W used what they termed a "hot streak' ignition system which send a stream of raw fuel back from the combustion section, through the turbine wheels to light off the gas being sprayed into the afterburner causing a controlled explosion when the AB fuel was torched off.

[Blackbird686]

According to what I have on the F-94B, it was fitted with a Pratt & Whitney J48-P-5 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_J48) turbojet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbojet). (from Wikipedia). The engine had an afterburner but even when the afterburner was ignited, it's top speed at altitude was Mach .84. Some may have been fitted with Allison engines and I read somewhere that a few variants were equipped with Westinghouse powerplants. Further research is needed there...
Allen's FDE, (or the one he is using) is pretty close to 100%, the plane was heavy when fully fueled and required near full throttle to reach it's operational altitude numbers.

BB686:US-flag:

[SSI01]

OK, I sent the NACA jet back out to Edwards and tested your afterburner. As advertised, it comes on or goes off a second or so after the throttle passes the 90% point. It comes on with a soft WHUMP!

I have no idea whether real afterburners go WHUMP! when they ignite, but I like the sound.

It doesn't push me back in my seat, but that's OK; my desk chair is on casters.


I seem to recall something written by Jack Broughton about the F-94. It was the ONLY jet between the F-80 and the F-106 (inclusive) he did NOT fly; I remember his remarks being something like based on what he was told by those who had flown the jet, he wasn't missing much. It was a case of "second best tomorrow" - it was good enough to do what needed to be done at the time it needed to be done.

[Mick]

According to what I have on the F-94B, it was fitted with a Pratt & Whitney J48-P-5 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_J48) turbojet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbojet)...BB686:US-flag:

According to Lloyd Jones in U.S. Fighters, the F-94A/B used the J-33 and the F-94C Starfire used the J-48. The Starfire was a whole different plane, originally called F-97, (different enough that Jones gives it a whole separate listing from the early F-94) and one of the main differences was the new, bigger engine, though there wasn't much of the F-80/T-33/F-94B left in the F-94C. Maybe nothing but things like nuts and bolts and maybe some landing gear parts.

[Allen]

Blackbird686
The F-94A/B used the J-33. F-94B Pilots Manunal http://www.avialogs.com/viewer/avialogs-documentviewer.php?id=3526 Listed on PDF page 9 and 10 (book page 3 and 4)

[Blackbird686]

Yeah, you're right. The docs I was reading were for the F-94C. Like I said earlier... More research is needed. Thanks for the correction.

BB686:US-flag:

[Allen]

Update to V1.9. Added the auto afterburner gauges and afterburner sound effect.

[Mick]

Update to V1.9. Added the auto afterburner gauges and afterburner sound effect.

Nice enhancement!

Before, it sounded like an old tractor starting up until it got running properly!

The indicator on the panel is a nice touch, too.

[Mick]

For you early adapters who downloaded the skins from the links in the post above, here's a corrected texture file.

It's for the 319th FIS skin in the Korean War set. I'd neglected to put the flight leader's stripes around the bottom of the fuselage. This fixes that.

Of course the updated file has been added to the archive that will go into the library when version 2 is released.

I painted a few more skins so I'll upload four skin packs to the library, not three. I'm not putting the new ones up on my A-Drive because I figure we've got enough to hold us over for now.

[Blackbird686]

Update to V1.9. Added the auto afterburner gauges and afterburner sound effect.

Added the afterburner effect you set up, and it works nicely. Now to get some of that silver paint off the nose wheel... (ooops, sumbudy forgot to mask it off when they sprayed all that shiny silver stuff onto the airplane,,,) :biggrin-new:

Nice job on the AB effect, Allen....

BB686:US-flag:

[Mick]

... Now to get some of that silver paint off the nose wheel... BB686:US-flag:

Thanks for the head's up.

It took less than a minute to find the glitch and fix it. Applying the fix to a seventeen texture files may become a bit tedious.

I'm not going to add the fix to the files I linked to above, but they will be applied to all the skin sets that I put up to the library. So those who already have the skins will want to download the fixed versions when they show up on the download list. It will just be a quick drop and overwrite for each skin.

[Allen]

It was a ton of searching and head banging to get the afterburner gauges working. I'm not sure if the AB had any pop or bang sound when it fired up so the AB_Start.wav is blank but you can add any sound you like.

The one flaw I can't seem to fix is after your cycle through all of the views the AB sound isn't played once your go back to the 2D or VC panel. If you throttle back than back up the AB sound will start again.

Will PM l'iguane about including his 59th FIS, USAF texture in version 2. Think everything else is good unless something else has been found but not posted about.

[l'iguane]

Here is the updated 59th FIS texture, I corrected a few pixels and missing markings so it can be enclosed in the F-94 V2 version


Cheers
L'iguane

[Mick]

Here is the updated 59th FIS texture, I corrected a few pixels and missing markings so it can be enclosed in the F-94 V2 version
Cheers
L'iguane

And here it is with the silvery nose wheel glitch fix in the alpha channel, as I did for all my skins yesterday thanks to Blackbird's sharp eyes. :adoration:

[Mick]

I just tried the plane with the latest v1.9 aircraft.cfg files and I found a glitch and a mystery regarding the afterburner effects.

The glitch is that it was impossible to turn the lights on and off without having the afterburner turn on and off with them. Not the hot set-up to depict a night fighter that served most of its career in peacetime, often flying at night with its lights on and its afterburner usually off.

In fact, when I turned on the lights the afterburner kicked in even when the engine wasn't running. Not very realistic.

The fix was easy but that led to the mystery.

I removed the afterburner effect lines from the [Lights] section of the aircraft.cfg file and I was able to turn the lights on and off without affecting the afterburner, and the afterburner still kicked in and out automatically when I opened or closed the throttle through the 90% point. Just as we want to happen! Perfect!

BUT...

Here's the mystery: when I removed the AB effects lines from the [Lights] section I noticed that the effect files we'd been using were no longer called up. They had been replaced with effects from a payware plane that I don't have, the Virtavia (I think) F11F Tiger. (Is that legitimate?)

I don't have that plane and I don't have those effect files. So how come I still get afterburner effects? In fact, how did I get them when I turned the lights on before I edited the cfg file, since I don't have those effect files? Very mysterioso! I don't get it. Not at all.

And regardless of which effect files are involved, how come I get any AB effects when they don't appear in the [Lights] or the [Effects] section? Is that some magic accomplished through Rob B's automatic afterburner gauge?

It just gets curiouser and curiouser...

:dizzy:

[Blackbird686]

Hey Mick --

I have a similar problem with the oldie but goodie Classic Wings F-100C/D, it's a strange one for sure... everything, including the afterburner lights up when the nav lights come on, even tho the effects controller is in place and the effects entries are where they should be, both in the aircraft config and the proper entries in the panel config... there's no joy in Mudville.

I found with Rob's afterburner gauge and panel entries, I could use any "light" effect for the visual afterburner I wanted in the F-94B. I stuck with the effects you used because they worked nicely with the model I thought. Allen did another AB effect for the plane so I tried using the "eap anniburner" light effect with that set up and I got the same thing you did when the lights were turned on and off. Strange...

I would either stick to the AB effect that Allen did for the F-94 or the one I did with the RCB gauge controller. Both work just fine and at some point I will sort this whole bit out later.:dizzy:

BB686:US-flag:

[Mick]

Hey Mick --

I have a similar problem with the oldie but goodie Classic Wings F-100C/D, it's a strange one for sure... everything, including the afterburner lights up when the nav lights come on, even tho the effects controller is in place and the effects entries are where they should be, both in the aircraft config and the proper entries in the panel config... there's no joy in Mudville.

I found with Rob's afterburner gauge and panel entries, I could use any "light" effect for the visual afterburner I wanted in the F-94B. I stuck with the effects you used because they worked nicely with the model I thought. Allen did another AB effect for the plane so I tried using the "eap anniburner" light effect with that set up and I got the same thing you did when the lights were turned on and off. Strange...

I would either stick to the AB effect that Allen did for the F-94 or the one I did with the RCB gauge controller. Both work just fine and at some point I will sort this whole bit out later.:dizzy:

BB686:US-flag:

Well, it seems to me that Allen's v1.9 aircraft.cfg file with the AB effects removed from the [Lights] section works fine as long as the user has the two effects files we've been using. Being freeware, they can be included in the release, whereas I don't think it's permissible to include effects from a payware plane.

Maybe those payware effects are only called up by that [Lights] section, and the automatic AB gauge still calls up the files we've been using up to now???

Apparently it's not necessary to have the effect file names anywhere in the aircraft.cfg file as long as the gauge calls them up???

I really don't understand this stuff. I just know that I now have independent lights and automatic afterburner effects, but it didn't come out of the box that way. All I did was delete the effects lines from the [Lights] section. I'm sure the rest of it makes sense to those who understand this stuff, but it's all a muddle to me.

The really befuddling thing to me is that before I deleted those lines from the [Lights] section, they called up those payware effects files that I don't have, yet they worked. How can effects show up when I don't have those effect files? That just makes no sense to me. No sense at all. How can that even be possible?

[Blackbird686]

Well, it seems to me that Allen's v1.9 aircraft.cfg file with the AB effects removed from the [Lights] section works fine as long as the user has the two effects files we've been using. Being freeware, they can be included in the release, whereas I don't think it's permissible to include effects from a payware plane.

Maybe those payware effects are only called up by that [Lights] section, and the automatic AB gauge still calls up the files we've been using up to now???

Apparently it's not necessary to have the effect file names anywhere in the aircraft.cfg file as long as the gauge calls them up???

I really don't understand this stuff. I just know that I now have independent lights and automatic afterburner effects, but it didn't come out of the box that way. All I did was delete the effects lines from the [Lights] section. I'm sure the rest of it makes sense to those who understand this stuff, but it's all a muddle to me.

The really befuddling thing to me is that before I deleted those lines from the [Lights] section, they called up those payware effects files that I don't have, yet they worked. How can effects show up when I don't have those effect files? That just makes no sense to me. No sense at all. How can that even be possible?


It has always been my understanding that one HAS to list the "light" or the "effect" in the aircraft config. Even tho they are similar, I have always included the visual flame effect in the aircraft.config as a light, not an effect. That has always worked until the latest issues I'm having as described in my last post. So for the record.... the effects controller is a "gauge" and in most cases is usually included in a zip file along with the panel gauges for the model. Should work either in the main gauges folder or the panel folder for that specific model, in most cases... I'm not really sure what's happening with your afterburner effects, you must have another light effect for another Alphasim plane, that has the same naming convention as the Alphasim F-11 Tiger. Some of the payware models I have from Alpha/Virtavia, (and I have A LOT), share naming conventions for both the lights and visual effects. I do not have the Grumman F-11 Tiger so I don't know what effects it uses for the afterburner. Post a copy of your lights and effects section here, and I'm sure if I can't figure it out, someone with more experience than me would be more than willing to help get it all sorted for ya.

BB686:US-flag:

[Allen]

Mick
The afterburner effect isn't done by Light. It is done by SmokeSystem. Remove the useless F-11 effects from the light and every thing should be fine for you. I just did the same so no one else that has the payware F-11 will run into this odd bug. I never saw this bug as I don't have the payware F-11.

[Mick]

Mick
The afterburner effect isn't done by Light. It is done by SmokeSystem. Remove the useless F-11 effects from the light and every thing should be fine for you. I just did the same so no one else that has the payware F-11 will run into this odd bug. I never saw this bug as I don't have the payware F-11.

Exactly! That's how I made those manual afterburner effects earlier; they were triggered by the smoke key. They were made obsolete by the automatic AB (that I couldn't figure out but then Blackbird did.) I never put them in the lights section - you did, I suppose, in the v1.9 you attached to an earlier post. If you didn't put it in there, then you posted a file that someone else put it into. I took those lines out and all is as it should be. If you've deleted those lines from the release cfg file, that's all you need to do. No more issue.

But the mystery remains. The big mystery to me is that I'm still confused by how those light-linked effects ever showed up in the sim on my rig, since I don't have the effects files they call up. I checked my effects folder and I definitely don't have them. Yet they showed up when I turned on the lights while the cfg file called for them and they went away when I deleted those lines. How an I see an effect when I don't have the effect file for it??? It makes no sense, none!

It occurs to me that it might be a good idea after all to have a manual AB available for those who lack the required bits to make the automatic AB work. The automatic AB uses Ron B's automatic AB gauge, and in turn the AB gauge requires installation of the Carrier Operations Gauge Package, which some folks may not have installed. (At least that's what his ReadMe says.) Seems to me that we should all have the Carrier Ops package, but some might not. If there was a manual AB effect using the smoke system section it would be there for those who need it, and could be ignored by the rest of us. A smoke system AB effect, mentioned in the ReadMe, might save you some e-mails or PMs from folks who can't see the automatic AB effects.

This should do it:

[SMOKESYSTEM]
smoke.0=0.00, -18.00, 0.00, fx_afterburner
smoke.1=0.00, -18.00, 0.00, fx_afterburnerflame

For those of us who don't need it, I wonder if I can summon up the patience to set up a gunfire effect so we can shoot the machine guns with the smoke key. We'll see about that. Probably not today. Maybe later...

[Allen]

The .cfg I got from Scale Dail and had AB effects in the light. I reworked the :censored: out of everything but for got about the effects being listed in the light. :-/

The Auto AB required nothing to turn the AB on/off with throttle. Only the sound part required an outside gauge. The Rob Barendregt's dsd_xml_sound3.gau and this is freeware and can be included with the aircraft as said in his read me.

My AB gauges work like this.

AB_Light: This is the light you see on the panel. The AB_Smoke_FX controls the light on/off of this gauge.

AB_Smoke_FX: This starts all FXes list in the SmokeSystem. Engine must be at least 50% RPM and throttle 98% or this won't start the effect. Also turns on the AB using the same 50% RPM and throttle 98%. Turns the AB_Light on/off as well.

AB_Sound: Works wtith the dsd_xml_sound3.gau to play sounds engine min 50% RPM and throttle 98%.

No need for Carrier Operations Gauge Package (not sure what that is). I'm new to FS04 and only installed it so I could get this F-94B working in FS04.

[Mick]

The .cfg I got from Scale Dail and had AB effects in the light...No need for Carrier Operations Gauge Package (not sure what that is). I'm new to FS04 and only installed it so I could get this F-94B working in FS04.

I kinda figured that's where that Lights section came from. :adoration:

When I read the ReadMe for the automatic afterburner gauge, Rob wrote in it that it would be necessary to also have the Carrier Ops package installed, at least to make it work simply and easily, though he suggested that it might be possible to make the AB gauge work without it if one could figure out how. He wasn't at all clear about that, and I couldn't get his AB gauge to work even though I do have the Carrier Ops package. Apparently Blackbird figured that out.

As for what it is, the Carrier Ops gauge package provides a "Meatball" that can be installed in a carrier plane along with a way to make the plane stop as if trapped in the arresting gear, plus a catapult that will shoot a carrier plane from a carrier, or a floatplane from a cruiser or battleship if one wishes. I'm not familiar with the landing stuff because I use another system for carrier traps and launches, but I use the catapult part to shoot floatplanes from gunnery ships or hang gliders from mountains. Even though I don't use all of it, I have the whole package installed because, well, why not?

Anyhow, if it's not necessary for everyone to have the Carrier Ops package installed, and the necessary gauges can be included in the package, then apparently everyone will be able to have the AB work automatically.

Still can't imagine why I saw those F11F effects when I don't have those effect files. It keeps gnawin' at me...

[Mick]

OK, since it looks like nobody will need a manual afterburner effect, we can use the Smoke System for gunfire.

Yes, you can shoot guns in FS9. You just can't shoot anything down (or up.) For that matter, you can use an explosion effect to blow stuff up in FS9; it just doesn't stay blown up. When the smoke and fire clear away, the target remains intact.

Anyway, I've used the gunfire visual and sound effects that A.F. Scrub provides with all his fighter models. Everyone probably has them, but in case someone doesn't, I've attached them here. Thanks, Scrubby!

If you don't already have these effects:

Put the 20can sound file into the FS9 Sound folder.

Put the fx_Wing_Guns effect into the FS9 Effects folder.

Patch this into your aircraft.cfg file.

[SmokeSystem]
Smoke.0=0.0, 2.00, 1.175, fx_Wing_Guns
Smoke.1=0.0, 2.00, -1.175, fx_Wing_Guns

The gunfire doesn't exactly match the gun ports because in FS9 you can't adjust the elevation of an effect up and down in relation to the aircraft. There is a place in the effect line in the cfg file to make the adjustment, but no matter what you write there, the effect will always be level with the center of the model. You can adjust fore & aft or left & right, but not up & down. Still, they're pretty close.

The guns will fire as long as you hold the "trigger" down and stop when you let off the trigger. The trigger is the smoke ("i") key. Be careful not to burn out your barrels!

If you have any hostile AI planes coming for you, now you can go after them in the F-94. Zoom! A-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a!

[Allen]

The Auto AB is using the [SmokeSystem]...

[Blackbird686]

The Auto AB is using the [SmokeSystem]...

THAT would be an interesting event in a real world F-94B... romp the throttles up to about 90 - 95% and the guns go off! :biggrin-new: :p87:

I looked at the coding for the AB effect (which uses the smoke system) and it is somewhat intricate. Seems to work fine in my V1.9 copy so for the most part, it's best to leave well enough alone.

BB686:US-flag:

[Mick]

Yeah, that's right, we can't have the automatic AB and guns at he same time.

I didn't see that there was already a SmokeSystem section well down the aircraftcfg file, so I made one from scratch for the guns. It worked perfectly, but I didn't use the AB when I tried it so I didn't see that it wasn't working. Alas, what happened is that the first SmokeSystem section worked and FS didn't even see the second one. So I had the guns working but no AB.

If I put the guns and the AB in the same SmokeSystem section they would work together, just as the AB and the lights worked together when they were both in the Lights section. But if I'd seen the original SmokeSystem section I would've known not to add the guns to it.

(sigh...)

[Allen]

Yeah, that's right, we can't have the automatic AB and guns at he same time.

I didn't see that there was already a SmokeSystem section well down the aircraftcfg file, so I made one from scratch for the guns. It worked perfectly, but I didn't use the AB when I tried it so I didn't see that it wasn't working. Alas, what happened is that the first SmokeSystem section worked and FS didn't even see the second one. So I had the guns working but no AB.

If I put the guns and the AB in the same SmokeSystem section they would work together, just as the AB and the lights worked together when they were both in the Lights section. But if I'd seen the original SmokeSystem section I would've known not to add the guns to it.

(sigh...)

Good thing I didn't read that right away. I do have both working with out effecting each other and both have sounds. Took about a complete redo of the Auto AB it seemed.

How I did this is simple on the surface but thanks to the game and XML coding it took DAYS. The afterburner effect is now being ran from the Logo lights and still uses the dsd_xml_sound3 for sounds. Gun effects are being ran from the Wing lights.

Sound for the guns is being done from the SmokeSystem. While effects don't support looping sounds I was able to make 2 XML gauges that turn each other off and on real fast. This make the sound play over and over.

Gun sounds and effects are done by any brake key once your off of the ground. I'll attach an update. I think this is every thing needed. My brain is mush so I may have forgot something.

49911

[Mick]

s... The afterburner effect is now being ran from the Logo lights and still uses the dsd_xml_sound3 for sounds. Gun effects are being ran from the Wing lights...

What happens when you're on the ramp getting ready to go and you turn on the lights. Does that trigger the afterburner like it did before when the AB effects were in the Lights section? That was why they had to be removed from the Lights section...

OK, I just did the test and answered my own question.

As soon as you turn on the lights, the afterburner effects kick in, even if the engine isn't running.

Same as before the AB was switched to the Smokesystem section.

:banghead:

Oh, well... FS9 isn't a combat sim, so we really don't need guns.

[Allen]

When and where? The gauge set up shut the effects off before they start playing. Well some times a tracer slipps out of the guns. Just did an engine off test sitting on the runway at Midway. Hitting the L key to turn lights on isn't playing the AB effect.

[Mick]

When and where is on the ramp as soon as I turn on the nav lights to get ready to fly.

I was checking to see if the guns would fire, and they didn't, but the afterburner lit up. Not what I expected!

It shut off when I turned off the lights and lit up again when I turned the lights off.

The smoke key set off the gun sound, but no tracer effects, just sound.

According to the Lights section of the cfg file, turning on the lights should activate both the afterburner and the visual gun effects, but the visual gun effects don't show up, just the afterburner, both visual flames and the "Foom!" start-up sound. (And yes, I did remember to install both the sound and effect files before I did my test.)

According to the Smokesystem section, the smoke key should activate only the gun sounds, no visual effects, and that's what happens. But this time the guns keep firing until you hit the key again to stop them. Before they stopped firing when you took your finger off the trigger (which isn't how the FS9 smoke system normally works. Dunno why it worked like that then.)

I think we're just not supposed to be able to have separate lights, afterburner and guns that all work independently. We'd need separate cfg file sections for them, and M$ didn't put enough sections into the cfg files. I guess they didn't expect us to shoot guns in FS9. (Can't blame them for that, really.) They probably never thought about afterburners either, since none of the stock jets have afterburners.

I want the afterburner more than I want guns, so I'm gonnna stick with that set-up.

I fear that my attempt to arm the F-94 has only produced futility at the cost of time and effort. I should just stick to spraying paint.

[Allen]

What keys or in game switches are you using? None of the switches that come with the T-33/F-94 turn on the AB or guns. The L key that turns all lights on or off doesn't turn the AB or guns on as well.

[Mick]

What keys or in game switches are you using? None of the switches that come with the T-33/F-94 turn on the AB or guns. The L key that turns all lights on or off doesn't turn the AB or guns on as well.

I'm using the standard FS9 keys, which are the only ones I know of to activate lights and smoke.

The L key turns on the lights and the i key turns on the smoke.

The L key does indeed turn on the afterburner flames and sound along with the lights, just like the other day when the burner effects were in the lights section.

Everything happens just the way the sections of the cfg file tell FS to make it happen, except that the visual gun effects don't show up when the lights are turned on, although the cfg file calls them up.

[Mick]

The Russians Are Coming!
The Russians Are Coming!

The Bear is just off Provincetown, Mass., at the tip of Cape Cod, at 25,000 feet, heading towards Otis Air Force Base at Falmouth, near the base of the Cape, for a photo run before heading on down the coast to Cuba.

It's a static model and doesn't move, so you can't really formate on it like the picture seems to show (had to use slew mode for the picture.) But you can hunt it down and make threatening passes at it, trying to intimidate it away from Otis or at least disrupt the photo run. Back in the Cold War days you couldn't shoot it down anyway, lest you turn the Cold War hot.

The Bear is the Samdim Designs model. The ReadMe file contains no prohibitions against re-posting or anything else.

Copy attached for those who might want it.

[Allen]

I can't seem to duplicate what your seeing.

You say that the guns do not turn on with the light so I looked in the panel.cfg and see that I have the gun effect gauge/trigger listed in the [Vcockpit01] so I moved the AB effect gauge/trigger down to the [Vcockpit01] as well.

I'll attach the update panel.cfg and hopefully that will fix the prob.

49930

Yes I do know that the fx_afterburner.fx will still play the amb_aexp1a.wav ,amb_aexp1b.wav or amb_aexp1c.wav if you have those sounds in the main Sound folder but the flame part is not being shown.

[Mick]

... I'll attach the update panel.cfg and hopefully that will fix the prob...

No joy. It just keeps getting worse.

Now when I turn on the lights only the lights turn on, as it should be, but nothing else is right.

The afterburner comes on with the smoke key, but the flames only show for a fraction of a second before they disappear.

Worse, the automatic afterburner linked to the throttle is completely lost. Now the AB only comes on with the smoke key, and then not with persistent flames.

There are no gun effects linked to any key command.

I'm going to stick with what we had, automatic afterburner working properly, and no guns.

I fear that my initial attempt at arming the plane has led you down a rabbit hole, trying to do something that FS9 just doesn't support. I apologize for that.

[Blackbird686]

Usually that kind of thing happens if there is more than one effects controller, as it has with my F-100, I doubt if Allen has that going on tho. I have just left V1.9 alone at the mo, with the working AB effect, and the lights, no guns. I'll wait for V2.0 if it comes. Don't think I'll be chasing any Bear bombers tho, but I did install that copy of the AI Bear that Mick posted... pretty easy to fly along side the Russian bomber and take turns holding up photos of each others "calendar ladies"....:biggrin-new:

BB686:US-flag:

[Allen]

That is not possible. I know it works as I just did it.

The automatic afterburner come on WHEN the engine is over 50% of max RPM and throttle is at/over 98%

The guns only work WHEN the plane is off of the ground AND any brake key is pressed.

Hitting the L key once will turn on the lights but not the afterburner or gun effects. (Done with the plane on the ground and throttle is all the way back so engine is idle)

Hitting the I key once will start playing the gun firing sounds and hitting I key again will shut them off. (Done with the plane on the ground and throttle is all the way back so engine is idle)

Can you confirm that the same is happing for you?

[Mick]

OK, I did a more thorough test and this is what I found.

On the ramp, if I turn on the lights before I turn on the engine, the afterburner makes the "Foom!" sound and the afterburner flames appear. The flames persists until I turn the lights off.

If the engine is already running, when I turn on the light I get the afterburner sound but not the flames.

On the ramp the smoke key triggers the gun sounds, but not the muzzle flash or tracers. The sounds continue when you take your finger off the trigger, and they don't stop until you hit the trigger key again.

On the ramp the brake key doesn't trigger the guns.

The automatic afterburner sound and flames appear as they should when the throttle is fully open on take-off or in flight.

In flight, if you forgot to turn on the lights as part of getting ready to fly, and you turn them on in flight, the afterburner sound goes Foom but they flames don't come on.

In flight, either the smoke or the brake key fires the guns. If you fire the guns with the smoke key, all you get is sounds, no visual effects, and they keep firing when you take your finger off the trigger and they fire until you hit the trigger again. If you change views while they're firing, you can't stop them until you cycle through the views back to the one you were in when you hit the trigger.

In flight, if you fire the guns with the brake key they stop when you take your finger off the trigger. You get sound and muzzle flash, but no tracers.

It's manageable if you remember not to turn the lights on until the negine is running, and if you remember to shoot the guns with the brake key and not the smoke key. I suppose adding tracers along with the muzzle flash would be simple enough.

Still, with a couple things to keep in mind that one might not recall if not having flown the plane for a while, it's probably more trouble than it's worth.

My inclination is to stick with what we got to the other day, an automatic afterburner that works seamlessly, lights that can be turned on at any time without having anything else happen, and no guns. I really wish I'd never thought about adding the guns.

[Allen]

First I have no idea why your turning the engine off. The game starts with it on and far as I can tell there is no way to stop the F-94B engine in game WITH OUT changing to another aircraft and stopping its engine than change back to the F-94B. The bug could be from doing this. I can't get the same to happen no mater what. Would need to know what Airport and what runway at that Airport, Time, Date and how you shut the engine off.

The "Foom!" sound was coded to the fx_afterburner effect. I changed the "Foom!" to be controlled by the dsd_xml_sound3.gau. Now if the afterburner is OFF you won't hear the "Foom!" sound if you press L. If the afterburner is on and your press L you still get the "Foom!" sound. If that is a prob just swap the AB_Start No Sound.wav and AB_Start.wav.

NEVER EVER PRESS the "I" or Smoke key.

GUNS DO NOT WORK ON THE GROUND. EVER!

That is how things should be. Sound and flames appear as they should when the throttle is fully open WITH engine running.

Same bug as #2. Fixed as can be.

Again NEVER EVER PRESS the "I" or Smoke key. Use one of the brake keys F11, F12 or "." Not a good idea to use the Parking brake (Ctrl + ".") Just because you have to hit the Parking brake key to start and again to stop the guns.

Having the muzzle flash, but no tracers. I have seen that it takes time for the game to play the tracer effects. The tracers are in same FX as the muzzle flash. I now made a deacated tracer effect. Not sure that this makes things better or not.

Try below and see what you get.

49948

[Mick]

First I have no idea why your turning the engine off. The game starts with it on and far as I can tell there is no way to stop the F-94B engine in game WITH OUT changing to another aircraft and stopping its engine than change back to the F-94B. The bug could be from doing this. I can't get the same to happen no mater what. Would need to know what Airport and what runway at that Airport, Time, Date and how you shut the engine off.

The "Foom!" sound was coded to the fx_afterburner effect. I changed the "Foom!" to be controlled by the dsd_xml_sound3.gau. Now if the afterburner is OFF you won't hear the "Foom!" sound if you press L. If the afterburner is on and your press L you still get the "Foom!" sound. If that is a prob just swap the AB_Start No Sound.wav and AB_Start.wav.

NEVER EVER PRESS the "I" or Smoke key.

GUNS DO NOT WORK ON THE GROUND. EVER!

That is how things should be. Sound and flames appear as they should when the throttle is fully open WITH engine running.

Same bug as #2. Fixed as can be.

Again NEVER EVER PRESS the "I" or Smoke key. Use one of the brake keys F11, F12 or "." Not a good idea to use the Parking brake (Ctrl + ".") Just because you have to hit the Parking brake key to start and again to stop the guns.

Having the muzzle flash, but no tracers. I have seen that it takes time for the game to play the tracer effects. The tracers are in same FX as the muzzle flash. I now made a deacated tracer effect. Not sure that this makes things better or not.

Try below and see what you get.

49948

The game only starts with the engine on if you have it set that way by having the engine running at the start of your default flight, when you save it and make it the default flight. I guess it comes out of the box with the stock default flight set that way (not sure, it's been so many years) but I don't know why anyone would leave it that way and I doubt that many did. And unless Seattle was their home airport, why would anyone want to keep a default flight that starts there?

You stop the engine in the game by pushing the engine shut off key, which is whatever key you set it for. (Any unassigned key will do.) Or there might be a shut-down switch on the panel. The F-94 is no different. Why finish a flight and walk away with the engine running? You wouldn't do that in a real airplane.

The behavior I got with the F-94 has nothing to do with the airport or ramp I started on. (Ramp, not runway. I never start on a runway.) As it happened, I did my tests in a couple different places, first at my default airport, then by selecting Previous Flight, at the airport I landed at after the first test. Anyway, I can assure you that there's nothing about FS9 that would allow a plane to behave any differently depending on where it was located in the FS world. Scenery doesn't affect the aircraft unless you crash into it.

Yes, the guns do indeed work on the ground if you hit the smoke key (not the brake key) but the visual effects don't show, just the sound. So they half work on the ground.

We really have no need for guns, and since having them complicates the situation and make the operation of the afterburner and lights not seamless and natural, they aren't worth putting up with. It would be different if this was a combat sim and we could actually shoot things with the guns, but FS doesn't allow that. If we want to really shoot things with the F-94, we can put it into CFS2 and arm it with a damage profile. That would be a very nifty thing to do, and I'm sure some folks will do it. I would like to, but I don't have enough hobby time to get involved with a second sim (I wish I did!) so I'm going to stick with FS9 and stick with the F-94 set up with seamless operation and no guns. And I am still really happy to have it that way.

[Blackbird686]

Boy-oh Howdy! :banghead: Seems we're getting nowhere fast with all of this. I currently have a copy of the freeware IRIS MiG-23/27 for FS9 that has BOTH an afterburner effect controlled by throttle position and engine RPM, AS WELL AS a working gun effect. Let me have a close look at that model and see if I can figure out how it clicks... and I'll get back to everyone on this later. :encouragement: ITMT -- I'll just keep the guns unloaded, and enjoy this little fighter for what she is... an excellent flyer that looks really good, and has a kick in the butt afterburner effect.

BB686:US-flag:

[Allen]

Blackbird686
Found the IRIS Classic MiG 27 and I'm looking at it now. The afterburner code is not like what I have. I'll change to the Iris code and change the conditions (Iris code needs 90% throttle while I need 98% throttle) This code seem to be stable for Mick as I'm using code just like it for the guns.

Mick
Can you attach a saved flight so all I have to do is hit L so I can see the bug my self. Nothing I can do will cause the same bug for me. Saved flights are in your Documents or My Documents than go to Flight Simulator Files or you can go to it by C:\Users\*YOUR_PC_USER_NAME*\Documents\Flight Simulator Files

Also try this out.

49959

[Mick]

OK, I just tried the most recent evolution and here's what I get.

Sitting on the ramp, when I turn on the lights the lights come on and nothing else. Just as it should be.

When I hit the smoke key the guns fire. As the cfg file comes from the zip file, only the gun sounds happen. I added the tracers. Perfect.

When I start the engine and open the throttle the afterburner kicks in, but could use some tweakage.

- The "Foom!" or "Whump!" ignition sound doesn't come on.

- The flame effects are way up inside the tailpipe; they need to be moved rearward some ways.

So, major progress! No matter what key I hit, nothing happens that isn't supposed to happen. Woo-HOOO !!!

The tweakage that remains to be done is, hopefully, simple:

1 - move the AB flames back down the tailpipe so they shoot out the back like before. (Maybe not quite as far as before for a plane of this vintage.)

2 - restore the afterburner ignition sound (Foom or Whump).

Attached, as you requested, is a flight start, the one I've generally started with. It puts you on the Air Guard ramp at Barnes Municipal Airport, Westfield, Mass. (KBAF) on a bright autumn afternoon, "cold and dark": engine stopped, canopy closed, lights off, parking brake set and the sim in Pause.

Actually, since you'll be at the stock KBAF, you might find yourself parked out in the weeds, but you shouldn't start with a building crash. I think you'll be on pavement at least.

Open the canopy, get in, close the canopy (OK, you don't have to do that part.) Turn on your lights and now, finally, you should see that when you turn on the lights, the lights turn on and nothing else happens.

Next start your engine. For some reason I always have trouble getting jet engines to start in any view but 2D panel view. I don't know why, or if it's like that for anyone else. I'm too impatient to go through the full cockpit checklist routine; I just hit Ctrl+e to start the engine. (If you're not used to starting that way, hold those keys down until the gauges are in the green and you can hear that J-33 howling.)

Taxi out to take-off (the active is probably the near end of the main runway, almost right in front of you, or follow an AI plane. Line up with the centerline, go to full throttle, and the AB kicks in. You won't hear the Foom! but you'll hear the engine get a little bit louder and if you're in Spot view you'll see just the tippy tips of the afterburner flames poking out the tailpipe enough to let you know that the AB is on. When you ignite the AB nothing else happens.

Like a real plane, the guns shoot whether you're on the ground or on the air (so be careful not to shoot up those F-51H's parked there on the ramp!) When you hit the smoke key the guns shoot, and nothing else happens. When you take your finger off the trigger the guns keep firing until you tap the key again. Not perfect, but not a big deal - although for a while there, in one of the confabulations we tested, the guns stopped when I lifted my finger. Still, not a big deal, completely tolerable. The big thing is that when you shoot the guns, nothing else happens.

It would seem that the afterburner, the lights and the guns all work independently. I'd just about become convinced that this was impossible!

And they all work properly, except that the AB flames need some tweakage and the AD ignition sound has gone off somewhere.

Finally, everything works the same whether the plane is on the ground with the engine off, on the ground with the engine running, or in the air with the engine running.

But now you don't have any glitches to look for, unless the afterburner flames and sound look different to you than what I just described. I hope those will just be simple edits, though I don't know how to do that editing, so I must leave that to you.

[Allen]

Why "I" key? Are the tracer effect not working from using the brake key once off of the ground?

The AB flames is where I first go them from. I need to see your aircraft.cfg Something dose not match. I have long a flame.

Afterburner ignition sound (Foom or Whump) only plays in the 2d or VC. That or we go back to where the L key will play Foom or Whump.

[Tom Clayton]

If you need it, I have an invisible gauge that activates the smoke when the brakes are applied and the plane is off the ground. I use it for crop dusting, but if you have a tracer effect tied to the smoke switch, it should work for that too. It was written for me by Rob Barendregt many years ago.

Edit: That thread is still here with the original code:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/23800

[Mick]

Why "I" key? Are the tracer effect not working from using the brake key once off of the ground?

The AB flames is where I first go them from. I need to see your aircraft.cfg Something dose not match. I have long a flame.

Afterburner ignition sound (Foom or Whump) only plays in the 2d or VC. That or we go back to where the L key will play Foom or Whump.

Ah, I didn't try the brake key last night, just the smoke key. It seems that either of them does it, and I think I must have used the brakes on the ground while taxiing to the runway, so I guess the brakes don't do anything on the ground except activate the brakes. Given that either of them does the job, I'd rather use the smoke key and forget about the brake key - except for using the brakes. That way everything stays independent of everything else, as they should. At least that's how I prefer it. And I like the guns on the smoke key because that's where I have the guns on other planes that I've added guns to, so it's my habit to expect them there. I know that after some time passes, I'd never remember that there are guns connected to the brake keys and they only fire in the air.

I must not have activated the afterburner in panel or VC view. I was watching to see how it looked in spot view. It never occured to me that it would be different in the different views.

Anyhooo.. I've done a little tweakage after reading your comments, and I now have everything exactly as I like it. Maybe not exactly as you prefer or intended, but perfect to me:

Ir's all possible because you managed to get the lights, afterburner, guns and brakes all working independently, which I'd been convinced was impossible. Great job !!! OK, the brakes shoot the guns when airborne, so they're not completely independent, but that's OK because I doubt that I'd ever hit the brakes while airborne, so effectively they are independent.

With some minor editing, I've moved the afterburner flames five feet back towards the tail, so now they stick out the tailpipe when the AB is lit. They may stick out a little further than a real plane of that vintage - three or four feet might have been more realistic - but they look great.

I made the afterburner go Whump! when it lights up in all views.

I added tracers to the smoke section, so the guns have tracers when fired with that key. I didn't bother with the muzzle flash, since I thought the tracers would be enough, but I might add the muzzle flash later on. It would be easy enough.

I am completely satisfied and happy as the proverbial pig... - well, this is a family web site, but we know what that happy pig was in.

I can't thank you enough for your efforts and patience!

:ernaehrung004:

FYI, this is what my lights and smoke sections look like now (not all that different from yours):

[LIGHTS]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 8=Wings 9=Logo, 10=Cabin
light.0= 3, -2.829, -20.761, -0.493, fx_navred
light.1= 3, -2.829, 20.761, -0.493, fx_navgre
light.2= 3, -20.701, 0, 1.724, fx_navwhi
light.3= 1, -7.815, 0, 2.589, fx_beacon
light.4= 1, -8.107, 0, -2.536, fx_beacon
light.5= 4, 7.27, 0, 1.44, fx_vclight
light.6= 4, 3.46, 0, 1.44, fx_vclight
light.7= 9, -20.00, 0, -0, fx_afterburner - - - (That's the old Whump! sound. I like it better than the newer Crack! sound.)
light.8= 9, -25.00, 0, -0, fx_afterburnerflame - - - (Increased from -20. I may move it forward to -23 or -24.)
light.9 = 8, 15.537, 1.253, -0.318, fx_GunFlash
light.10 = 8, 15.537, -1.253, -0.318, fx_Tracer
light.11 = 8, 15.537, 1.00, -0.921, fx_GunFlash
light.12 = 8, 15.537, -1.00, -0.921, fx_Tracer
light.13 = 8, 15.537, 1.253, -0.318, fx_Tracer
light.14 = 8, 15.537, -1.253, -0.318, fx_GunFlash
light.15 = 8, 15.537, 1.00, -0.921, fx_Tracer
light.16 = 8, 15.537, -1.00, -0.921, fx_GunFlash

[SmokeSystem]
Smoke.0=0.00, 0.00, 0.00, fx_50cals_sound
Smoke.1=0.0, 2.00, 1.175, fx_Tracer
Smoke.2=0.0, 2.00, -1.175, fx_Tracer

Since we're on the aircraft.cfg, I have one suggestion. As was noted early in the thread, those wing tip tanks make the plane wallow something awful in the pattern at landing speeds. Maybe a real F-94 was like that, or maybe F-94 pilots just made sure to empty their tip tanks before the end of their flights. Anyway, the plane handles beautifully if you just empty those tip tanks in the Fuel section. At the cost of some reduction in authenticity, I went a step further and replaced the Fuel section with the one from the original T-33. I think I can guess why Piglet didn't put the tip tanks in there.

I am beyond happy with my F-94 !!!

:redfire:

[Mick]

I have a question for the couple dozen of you early adapters who downloaded the skins from my A-Drive site.

First, I must tell you that you'll want to download the final versions when they appear in the library. There are three reasons for that: they all include the alpha channel fix that removes the silver paint from the nose wheel tire; a few of them include fixes or enhancements; and there are a few new skins in there that weren't in the original packages.

Anyway, here's my question: are some of the skins too shiny?

I made the Air Guard and active duty Air Force skins shinier than the Korean War ones, and now I wonder if they might be a little too shiny, especially the Air Guard planes, which were not brand new when the Guard got them. It would be a simple, one-click change to the alpha channels to adjust the shinyness, so I'm thinking of turning it down a notch to match the Korea skins. Maybe all of them, or maybe just the Air Guard ones.

What do you think?

[Blackbird686]

I think some of the paints are a bit on the bright side, IMO... the F-94's in this series were painted as "in service" jets and they should all have the "not so shiny" look. Think of the countless times a bit of fuel may have been spilled on those wings, or the grubby hands that opened and closed the gun access panels on the nose. Not to mention engine maintenance that over time would have dulled the shine just a bit.

I'm glad you got it all sorted with the AB effect, the guns, the sounds and all that, Mick. I haven't done all those conversions yet but I have the F-94B in the hangar now, getting ready to put all that together. This has certainly been a labor of love for the aircraft, as well as FS9.:gameon:

BB686:US-flag:

[Allen]

Change back to the fx_afterburner means your going to get the Whump! sound any time your turn the lights on. The fx_afterburner will play amb_aexp1a.wav, amb_aexp1b.wav or amb_aexp1c.wav. They are in your main Sound folder. Find the one you like and attach it. I than can set it up on gauge so you don't get the Whump! sound when you turn the lights on.

Moving the afterburner flames seems to have had the opposite effect.

50018

[Mick]

Somehow I didn't notice the "Whump!" when I turned on the lights. Odd - you'd think I'd notice something like that! Especially since I was looking for things like that. Duh!!

I could've lived with that, as it only goes on for a fraction of a second and it's over before the flight even gets started. But if you can fix it that easily I will gladly take you up on it.

Those three sound files you listed all sound exactly the same to me. They have a good sound but they seem a bit loud to me; I hope they won't be too loud. I have no idea whether you have control over that. I'll attach a copy of the "c" version of the wav file.

I'm not quite sure what you have in mind, so when you do this please be sure to tell me what to do with the resulting file(s).

Yeah, I moved the afterburner flame too far back. It started at -20 feet behind the model's center, and I could barely see it from even a slight angle off the six o'clock position. It was definitely too far back at -25; very dramatic but too far back. I changed it to -22 feet and it looks perfect, with the violet flame right at the tailpipe and the red/Orange/Yellow flames shooting out behind the violet. It's not as dramatic but I think it's more believable this way.

[Mick]

I think some of the paints are a bit on the bright side, IMO... the F-94's in this series were painted as "in service" jets and they should all have the "not so shiny" look. Think of the countless times a bit of fuel may have been spilled on those wings, or the grubby hands that opened and closed the gun access panels on the nose. Not to mention engine maintenance that over time would have dulled the shine just a bit.
BB686:US-flag:

Yeah, I think so too, which is what precipitated the question. I'm going to change some of them.

Right now I have one level of gray in the alpha channel for the Korea planes and another, shinier, for everything else. The Korea planes all have weathering and all the others are clean. I can't change that part without reworking every skin, and I'm not feeling at all compelled to do that!

I'll leave the Korea planes as they are, weathered and not so shiny, and I'll leave the regular Air Force planes looking very new and shiny,as they were early in their service lives. I'm going to reduce the reflectivity of the Air Guard planes to where the Korea planes are, so they will be clean but not as shiny as they were when they were new and freshly delivered to the active duty forces. The Air Guard planes I recall seeing in those long ago days before camouflage no longer looked brand new shiny, but they were usually spiffy clean and still fairly shiny.

It won't be a big change, but worthwhile for the small effort involved.

Thanks for your comments!

[Allen]

I really hope this is the last one. The preview has everything but the Piglet's T-33A gauges.

50038

Guns can be done by Smoke key or Brakes. I use brakes as in my MS Sidewinder by has the brakes assigned to the trigger by default.

50039

[Mick]

I really hope this is the last one. The preview has everything but the Piglet's T-33A gauges.
Guns can be done by Smoke key or Brakes. I use brakes as in my MS Sidewinder by has the brakes assigned to the trigger by default.
50039

Sounds very promising! I will check it out later today and post my results.

I use an old MS Sidewinder too! I've had it since I started with FS about fifteen years ago, and I think they've been out of production for a long time.

I use the trigger key to cycle through the views quickly without moving my right hand or using the left at all. I use two of the buttons on the base for brakes, left and right; I need both because some FS planes don't have nose wheel or tail wheel steering and have to be steered with differential brakes. I just use the keyboard key for smoke. I don't have it on the stick because I don't have that much use for it in FS, where I've only got a few planes armed with smoke, rockets or bombs. Mainly I just use the smoke system for smoke, like air show smoke, or for things like fire retardant or paratroopers, and I don't have that many planes that use those effects either.

It seems that you've got the F-94 just the way I've been trying for. I'll let you know soon how it goes in the sim.

[Mick]

OK, I've done some testing on the ramp and in the air, and I found no flaws. Everything works as it should and nothing interferes with anything else.

There is one item, not a flaw but a matter of personal preference. The afterburner ignition sound doesn't come on in the external views, Spot or Fly-By (nee` "Tower" as FS will always know it ) and I would like it to be audible in all views. I see that the AB_Sound file intentionally shuts it off in Spot and Tower views. I would edit that out of my personal copy, but I don't understand the format or syntax, so I don't know what lines to delete.

If it would really be just a matter of deleting some lines, could I induce you to make me a copy of that file with the AB ignition sound audible in all views?

[Blackbird686]

I have the same issue with the AB sounds in the spot view, as well as the gun sounds, I can't hear them but the can still lights up on throttle demand and the gun tracers can be seen when the brakes are applied in flight. Also noticed that the "I" key activates the gun effect.

The engine sounds are superb and fit the throttle range perfectly, the jet handles very well in so long as you don't try to "over stick" the plane when there's a full fuel compliment on board... even so, an experienced pilot will know to keep her straight and level when crossing the fence.

I sharpened up the gauges in the VC view by changing the pixel size from 512 to 1024. Piglets gauges have always been very smooth and clear and that little trick really sharpens them up nicely. Now if I can just figure out what the deal is with the sounds..... :dizzy:

BB686:US-flag:

[Allen]

Mick
Afterburner ignition sound not playing in the external views was done as the dsd_xml_sound3.gau dosen't bind the sound to the source. This means no matter how close or far way the plane is from the cam the dsd_xml_sound3.gau would play the sound at full volume.

Blackbird686
"as well as the gun sounds, I can't hear them but the can still lights up on throttle demand"

What?

If your missing gun sound sounds on the external views. I know why. I messed up with the preview.zip Drop the xgun50.wav into your main Sound folder.

50071

[Blackbird686]

Blackbird686
"as well as the gun sounds, I can't hear them but the can still lights up on throttle demand"

What?
50071


Sorry Allen -- I aged myself there because I've been around some of those old "kerosene burners" in my youth and even still to this day. A "Can" is a slang term for a jet engine. When one "Lights up the can, or cans" it means going to afterburner. I knew an Air Force Colonel that always referenced the jet engines on the B-66 Destroyer as "cans". Sorry for the confusion... :biggrin-new:

BB686:US-flag:

[Mick]

Mick
Afterburner ignition sound not playing in the external views was done as the dsd_xml_sound3.gau dosen't bind the sound to the source. This means no matter how close or far way the plane is from the cam the dsd_xml_sound3.gau would play the sound at full volume...

I'd be OK with that. I'd rather have that than no sound. No sound might be better for the release version - that's your call - but for my own copy I'd like the sound, even though it wouldn't lose volume with distance.

When I go into the Panel and open the Afterburner.cab file I find an xml file (a gauge, I suppose) named AB_sound.xml. When I open that in Notepad it looks like what I've patched in at the end of this post. There are two places with Comments: "AB Sound Kill for Spot" and "AB Sound Kill for Tower" that must keep the sound from sounding in those views. My guess is that simply deleting the lines that those comments refer to would let the sound be heard in those views.

Alas, I can't figure out which lines those comments do and don't apply to, and I'm sure that removing too few or too many lines, or the wrong ones, would make a mess of the gauge. I could experiment for hours and not get it right.

Can you tell me which lines to delete and which ones to leave alone?

This is the gauge as it opens in Notepad:

<Gauge Name="AB_Sound"> Version="1.0">
<Comment>
"AB Sound On Throttle"
</Comment>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(A:GENERAL ENG1 THROTTLE LEVER POSITION,part) 0.98 &gt; (A:ENG1 N1 RPM,percent) 50 &gt; (A:LIGHT LOGO,number) 0 == ; &amp;&amp; &amp;&amp; if{ 2 (>L:AB_Flame, enum) }
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
<Comment>
"AB Sound Off Throttle"
</Comment>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(A:ENG1 N1 RPM,percent) 50 &lt; (A:GENERAL ENG1 THROTTLE LEVER POSITION,part) 0.98 &lt; || (A:LIGHT LOGO,number) 1 == ; &amp;&amp; if{ 0 (>L:AB_Flame, enum) }
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
<Comment>
"AB Sound Kill for Tower"
</Comment>
<Keys>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE">
1 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE_REV">
0 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
</Keys>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(P:ACTIVE VIEW MODE,enum) 3 ==
if{
(G:Var1)
if{ 0 (>L:AB_Flame, enum) }
els{ 2 (>L:AB_Flame, enum) }
}
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
<Comment>
"AB Sound Kill for Spot"
</Comment>
<Keys>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE">
1 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE_REV">
0 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
</Keys>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(P:ACTIVE VIEW MODE,enum) 4 ==
if{
(G:Var1)
if{ 0 (>L:AB_Flame, enum) }
els{ 2 (>L:AB_Flame, enum) }
}
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
<Comment>
"AB Start Sound On Throttle"
</Comment>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(A:GENERAL ENG1 THROTTLE LEVER POSITION,part) 0.98 &gt; (A:ENG1 N1 RPM,percent) 50 &gt; (A:LIGHT LOGO,bool) 0 == ; &amp;&amp; &amp;&amp; if{ 1 (>L:AB_Start, enum) }
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
<Comment>
"AB Start Sound Kill for Tower"
</Comment>
<Keys>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE">
1 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE_REV">
0 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
</Keys>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(P:ACTIVE VIEW MODE,enum) 3 ==
if{
(G:Var1)
if{ 0 (>L:AB_Start, enum) }
els{ 2 (>L:AB_Start, enum) }
}
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
<Comment>
"AB Start Sound Kill for Spot"
</Comment>
<Keys>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE">
1 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
<On Event="VIEW_MODE_REV">
0 (&gt;G:Var1)
</On>
</Keys>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(P:ACTIVE VIEW MODE,enum) 4 ==
if{
(G:Var1)
if{ 0 (>L:AB_Start, enum) }
els{ 2 (>L:AB_Start, enum) }
}
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
</Gauge>

[Allen]

Blackbird686
Did the xgun50.wav fix your lack of gun sounds on the external views?

The "I" key will have to remain. It is now user choice of Brakes or Smoke for the guns. This is noted in the checklist.

Mick
.cab files are like .zip but much more of a pain in the :censored:. To make a .cab I had to lean the DOS command line for the MakeCab.exe hiding in Windows. For your own F-94 it would prob be easier to just delete the AB_Start.wav and go back to the fx_afterburner.fx that has sound.

[Blackbird686]

Blackbird686
Did the xgun50.wav fix your lack of gun sounds on the external views?

The "I" key will have to remain. It is now user choice of Brakes or Smoke for the guns. This is noted in the checklist.

Allen --

Placed the xgun50.wav in the main FS9 sound folder, trying to clean up the textures just a bit. Unfortunately, that's as far as I got. I'll have a go later today and report back. (Real World Issues).

BB686:US-flag:

[Mick]

... cab files are like .zip but much more of a pain in the :censored:. To make a .cab I had to lean the DOS command line for the MakeCab.exe hiding in Windows. For your own F-94 it would prob be easier to just delete the AB_Start.wav and go back to the fx_afterburner.fx that has sound.

I'm, not clear on just what you mean by your suggestion, as to what to put or remove from where, but it doesn't matter because - I did it! I edited the gauge and got the afterburner ignition sound audible in all views!

Woo-HOO !!! WHUMP !!!

There's no need to mess with cab files. Gauges work just as well from a simple folder. Some say they work better that way because FS doesn't have to use compressed files from a cab. I can't vouch for that last part, but I know that a folder works at least as well as a cab file. I just tried it and got my F-94 working the way I want it. (One could also just drop the gauges into the panel folder loose, but then it would be necessary to edit the panel.cfg file to make FS look for them there.)

I emptied the files from F98B_Afterburn.cab, put them in a folder named F98B_Afterburn (no suffix) and deleted the cab file. Then I opened the gauge in Notepad and deleted the sections that shut off the sounds in the external views. Perfect! FOOMP! in all views!

The only tricky parts were that I didn't notice at first that the deletions have to be made in two places,and that I also had to edit the Lights section and replace the effect "AB_Start No Sound" with "AB_Start." Those two things had me scratching my head for a while.

[Allen]

Had no idea that FS04 could read .xml outside of a .cab....

[Mick]

Had no idea that FS04 could read .xml outside of a .cab....

I don't recall where I learned that. I think I may have read it in a post I stumbled onto in the Dark Side forum (FSX).

I did a lot of fiddling about for little accomplished; after all of today's fiddling I've managed to get to where I was yesterday by a slightly different route.

I have the afterburner ignition sound in all four views, which was my main goal, so I'm very happy.

I still hear an initial Whump when I turn on the lights. I thought I'd gotten rid of that Whump but no, it only worked once, apparently by some glitch, and it wasn't replicable. It comes from having the AB effects in the Lights section and can't be avoided without losing the effects completely. I should've realized up front that no amount of fiddling could change that.

That's OK. One of the first things I do is turn on the lights, so the undesired Whump! is over before I really start a flight, and it never returns unless I want it when I light the burner. I have no problem living with with that. It passes readily as just another random airport noise.

It was so long ago that I don't recall if I had a habit of turning the lights on before starting the engine back in my brief time flying real airplanes. I suspect that I may have picked up the habit in FS from watching Capt. A.I. Pilot do it that way; he turns his lights on before he starts his engines. I don't think the Captain is a very good role model - he's very careless and pays little attention to where he's going - his situational awareness is about zilch and he doesn't seem to care. But I think I may have let him influence me in regard to turning on the lights before turning the key.

There's one little tidbit I'm still wondering about. I was concerned that the AB start sound might be too loud in the cockpit views, and in fact it's turned out to be rather soft. Is there a quick, easy way to turn it up? It's not worth a lot of trouble, but if there's a simple way I'll do it.

[Allen]

Have you gone back to the fx_afterburner.fx that has the sound or using the gague based AB_Start.wav.

[Mick]

Have you gone back to the fx_afterburner.fx that has the sound or using the gauge based AB_Start.wav.

I haven't made the change because I don't know where in which file or files to make the substitution. I'd like to give it a try but I'll need a bit of explanation.

[Allen]

If your using the fx_afterburner_no_sound.fx The AB_Start.wav plays the AB pop/boom.

[Mick]

If your using the fx_afterburner_no_sound.fx The AB_Start.wav plays the AB pop/boom.

Huh???

I have the fx_afterburner_no_sound.fx in the panel folder, though I have no idea what it does. I've been wondering about that. I only know that if I play it I get a microsecond of silence. I have no idea if it's actually used for anything or why there would be a need for a silent sound file.

I also have the AB_Start.wav in the panel folder. When I play it, it sounds just like the sound that goes with fx_afterburner.fx at the same volume, or so close that I don't hear any difference. But in the sim, it's considerably louder in the external views. In Spot of Fly-By it's just as I think it should be. In Panel and VC views it has noticeably less volume and tends to almost get lost in the engine sounds. Oddly, that wasn't so before I made that very same sound audible in the external views, though I didn't do anything at all with the internal views. Very curious. I would like to turn it up in the internal views if that can be done without making a big project of it.

What I don't follow is the meaning behind your question about which file I'm using. When you suggest substituting the fx_afterburner.fx file for the AB_Start.wav, do you mean to just substitute the one for the other in the panel folder? Won't that require edits to some files? Which ones?

I'm sorry to be so easily confused.

[Allen]

This is way harder than it needs to be.

There are only 2 ways to do the afterburner sounds.

1# Use the fx_afterburner.fx in the aircraft.cfg and have the AB pop/boom play any time you hit "L"

2# Use the fx_afterburner_no_sound.fx in the aircraft.cfg and have the dsd_xml_sound3.gau play the AB_Start.wav

For #1 you need use the fx_afterburner.fx in the aircraft.cfg and to delete the AB_Start.wav in the panel.

For #2 do nothing as the F98B_2.0_Preview.zip is set up this way.

[Mick]

This is way harder than it needs to be.
There are only 2 ways to do the afterburner sounds.
1# Use the fx_afterburner.fx in the aircraft.cfg and have the AB pop/boom play any time you hit "L"
2# Use the fx_afterburner_no_sound.fx in the aircraft.cfg and have the dsd_xml_sound3.gau play the AB_Start.wav
For #1 you need use the fx_afterburner.fx in the aircraft.cfg and to delete the AB_Start.wav in the panel.
For #2 do nothing as the F98B_2.0_Preview.zip is set up this way.

Yes, I know all that. Nothing new, difficult or confusing about it. All that was plain yesterday, as my posts clearly indicated (or so I thought.) I use option 1, as I stated a few times now.

My question wasn't about how to set up the afterburner sounds, it was whether there's a way to adjust the volume. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear - I thought I'd made that very clear, more than once. If you didn't know the answer, or if the answer is that it can't be done, all you had to do was say so.

I figured it could probably be done because setting up option 1 or option 2 produces significantly different volume levels from the same sound file. Adding the sound to the views that didn't have it produces the full volume in the external views that didn't have it at all, but somehow it becomes partly muted in the internal views where it was at full volume before.

What's confusing is that nothing I did seems to have any way of affecting the volume in the views I didn't edit, since I didn't edit them, yet the volume in those views changed. That, plus the same sound file now having different volumes in different views, seems to suggest that the volume in the various views can be controlled somehow, but maybe it can't be. Or maybe it just takes someone smarter than either of us to figure it out.

Never mind. It's not a big deal at all, and just asking the question seems to be more trouble than the answer is probably worth.

[Blackbird686]

Sorry for the delay in reporting, but the gun sounds work after dropping the xgun50 wav file into the main FS9 sound folder. I have 2 different variants of the F-94B, the other being nothing more that my version 1.9 copy... lots of afterburner and the guns aren't active. It's a lot more intricate than I thought but I'm still working on the effects... and I'm no expert at this stuff either. :dizzy:

BB686:US-flag:

[Allen]

Ah cool. Will work on get the final pack up done now.

[Allen]

Version 2.0 has been uploaded.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?linkid=22671&catid=204

Thanks to every one that made this possible!

[Blackbird686]

Hey Allen -- Check your PM's when you get a chance.

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