25 dead in wildfires

[AussieMan]

25 people have died (and the toll is expected to reach in excess of 40) overnight in Victoria (Australia) as raging bushfires (Wildfires) tore through the state. A lot of thes victims were found in cars. At the moment these fires are uncontrollable because of strong winds. Also hundresd of homes and businesses destroyed.

Overnight wind changes and storms have only making the situation worse as they change the direction of the fires and lightning from the storms create more fires.

New South Wales has not been spared either. Several lare fires are burning around the State. A fire burning at Peats Ridge was deliberately lit.

The fire reports that make the news are not the onlyones. In my local fire district I have been involved in fighting many smaller fires started by lightning oveer the last week. I am a communications officer and air radio operator with my fire district and am privvy to most of the first calls as when at home I am on a conference line.

At the moment things are quiet here but as it warms up things could explode.

The thing that gets up my nose is that when arsonists do get caught and go before the courts the jelly livered judges give them a slap on the wrist and let them go to repeat their evil deeds. The law here is the should be sent to jail for 14 years.

On another note, Australia is a land of complete opposites. While the Southern States are burning, in far North Queensland areas there are neck deep with monsoonal floodwaters.

Only in Australia.

Cheers
Pat

[R C CAWTE]

Just talking with my brother in Yarra Glen ,Victoria.He,s been out with the CFA operating the radios.At the moment the fires are under control,but a quick change in wind direction could change that in a heart beat.I must say that if i could of jumped on a plane and been there with him like we were in the Ash Wednesday fires,Id be there to help.

Spare a thought for these folks in their time of need.

[demorier]

My thoughts are with you down south. I only hope that when somebody runs a donation relief fund for these things like they have started for flood victims up north, somebody doesn't make a great mess of it. The last one I tried to donate to, the major banks made a complete stuff up of it....I ended up giving the donation idea in total frustration.

[wombat666]

As of 18.50 DST the confirmed fatalaties have reached 65, with at least 3 patients at the Alfred Hospital Burns Unit not expected to survive the night.
Sofie (Ms Wombat) has been on duty at the RCH for the past 48 hours to deal with the juvenile casualties, no idea when she will take herself off the floor.
At least 600+/- homes destroyed, unknown stock losses, while there are several major firefronts remaining critical.
And of course, the long term effects will be devastating, rain or no rain.
Our CFA people are bloody heroic..............:kilroy:

[AussieMan]

As at 2030 hours the death toll is 76. I have spent most of the week dealing with fires in my district but they are nothing compared to Victoria and the Central Coast of NSW.

The heart breaking news is that some of the fires controlled this morning were being reignited by arsonists. Those *******s should be charged with murder and given a long holiday in prison.

One 31 year old man has been charged with arson for lighting a fire on the NSW Central Coast.

Cheers
Pat

[demorier]

Oh my gaud....last I heard this afternoon was 36 fatalities and still counting. The news video of some of those towns down in Vic look just terrible. I think I'll stop whinning about the humidity.

[R C CAWTE]

Latest count 96 as of ten mins ago.Got my brother on skype right now .Hes just returned from day2 and is having a RUM or two before bed,and maybe another day of fires.
God bless the CFA.

[Daveroo]

dayum...why such a high death count...people not evac'ing soon enough? or the fires just advancing so fast?..fire storms??..man must be nasty to have that type of death toll...we burn millions of acres per year here and very rarely have a death....i just cant imagine...whats the acres burned so far?..if you go by acres ..gimme some idea of the fire sizes...and i wonder if any of the california fire fighters have come yet...i know we had aussie help this past fire season..would make sence to me to send out hotshots atleast and id ask areo union to send some P3s

good luck and godspeed

[wombat666]

Daveroo,
Very dense bush, 46C heat, 70-90KPH winds, and no rain for months.
The fires have been jumping several kilometres from the fronts and landing without warning behind the crews and in many cases, in unexpected areas.
Saturday night when the weather swung around it brought a line of thunderstorms with SFA rain but 400+ lightning strikes, which touched off more fires.
In many cases the victims have been trapped by fires cutting off any escape routes for them, which of course, are access routes for the CFA crews.
On top of this, the smoke haze and treacherous flying conditions have hampered the water bombers ......... :kilroy:
Very rough numbers for the area burnt out so far (and these are early ones) talk of 15,000 Hectares, but it will easily be double that.
At one point the fire fronts had linked to form one front over 115 MILES!
Very grim.

[R C CAWTE]

Yeah its getting worse.Over 200,000 hectares of land.108 confirmed dead at this point.The towns of King Lake and Marysville are now just points on a map.Next to nothing is still standing in these towns.The King lake fire front has claimed 63 confirmed dead on its own.Reports say nearly all of these died in their homes as they had nowhere to go.It was a matter of 10 to 15 seconds between life or death.
I,ve been in contact from here in the UK with freinds and family near the fire zone and can at last get some sleep knowing they are all safe.

[Daveroo]

wow..thats just unreal...whats the terrian like?...geography?..is it a flatish landscape?...mountainous?....114F(46C) and those high winds...wow...im not sure what a hectar is..ill have to look that up..but i think its larger than an acre..so i know 200,000 is a lot...prayin for ya...makes me want to come and help..once a fire fighter allways a firefighter

accually an acre, one acre = 0.4046863 hectare

so it would be 494,208.8 acres...at 200,000

[wombat666]

Daveroo,
Very dense bush, 46C heat, 70-90KPH winds, and no rain for months.
The fires have been jumping several kilometres from the fronts and landing without warning behind the crews and in many cases, in unexpected areas.
Saturday night when the weather swung around it brought a line of thunderstorms with SFA rain but 400+ lightning strikes, which touched off more fires.
In many cases the victims have been trapped by fires cutting off any escape routes for them, which of course, are access routes for the CFA crews.
On top of this, the smoke haze and treacherous flying conditions have hampered the water bombers ......... :kilroy:
Very rough numbers for the area burnt out so far (and these are early ones) talk of 15,000 Hectares, but it will easily be double that.
At one point the fire fronts had linked to form one front over 115 MILES!
Very grim.

Update:I left a '0' off the area figure but it's now up to 340,000 hectares and 160+ dead ...... will sadly go well above.
Terrain ranges from relatively flat to very rugged and heavily timbered.

[wombat666]

This should give people an idea of the scale of the problem as of 00:48 Tuesday.
Not pretty.

[Snuffy]

Last I heard ... 135 and counting.

They're calling it widespread murder as the fires are determined to be set deliberately by arson.

Hope they can catch em.

[Sturmvogel]

Up to 166 now...

Fortunately all my friends in these areas seem to be safe, though am keeping my eye on the fires near Beechworth as this is too close to home for me.

[Fortiesboy]

Many heartbreaking stories coming out of that country. I really feel for those people. Such cruelty.

My deepest sympathy to you in Oz

[Guruswarmyoz]

You know the worst thing about all of this apart from the 173 confirmed dead, 3,700+ homeless & exhausted fire fighters & other personnel is that some of these fires were deliberately lit by arsonists//pyromaniacs.

May these *******s rot in hell for committing such a rotten act.

[Willy]

My prayers out to the folks in Austrailia.

When they catch those "people" that set the fires, they need to find a short rope and a long drop.

[demorier]

Solidarity




(http://tools.goldcoast.com.au//photo-gallery/photo_gallery_popup.php?category_id=3791&offset=37)

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Really really terrible stuff going on there...

Dave part of the reason so many are dead is that they either don't evacuate soon enough or aren't prepared to fight hard enough at the end. These fires are incredible in the speed at which they move - people don't realize this as they stay to fight then realize they probably can't win - panic - and try to run in a car. Fire beats car cause smoke won't let you see and a car is one of the worst places to be in a fire as it is small and heats fast. Most people really have no true understanding of the true ferocity of a wildfire - that said more would survive if their homes were better prepared (water the heck out of your house if you got water otherwise why are you there if you haven't cleared the fuels around your home?), they stayed inside and put out any embers that find their way into the house. Instead too many try to run when it's too late. We've seen exactly the same thing in some fires on the prairies of the midwest a few years ago.

I hope they get those guys starting fires - especially at a time like this.

-Ed-

[PSULLYKEYS]

My sincerest sympathies to all in Victoria.

I certainly hope if arson was involved, the guilty get what they deserve = severe punishment for premeditated murder.

Distressing also is an article I read indicating a well respected area expert informed the local government in January that the fire danger was crucial and suggested controlled burns. This was seemingly ignored by those responsible in government.

They too should be at least charged with reckless endangerment and removed from their positions....permanently!

Sad to see it seems that politicians all over the world are the same: do nothing corrupt, worthless loathes.

[wombat666]

Typical of the conditions, and the coming weekend it looks to be heating up again.

[Guruswarmyoz]

Hey All,

Really really terrible stuff going on there...

Dave part of the reason so many are dead is that they either don't evacuate soon enough or aren't prepared to fight hard enough at the end. These fires are incredible in the speed at which they move - people don't realize this as they stay to fight then realize they probably can't win - panic - and try to run in a car. Fire beats car cause smoke won't let you see and a car is one of the worst places to be in a fire as it is small and heats fast. Most people really have no true understanding of the true ferocity of a wildfire - that said more would survive if their homes were better prepared (water the heck out of your house if you got water otherwise why are you there if you haven't cleared the fuels around your home?), they stayed inside and put out any embers that find their way into the house. Instead too many try to run when it's too late. We've seen exactly the same thing in some fires on the prairies of the midwest a few years ago.

I hope they get those guys starting fires - especially at a time like this.

-Ed-

Ed I'd disagree with some of what you said in regards to evacuating sooner. Officail policy in Victoria is in a nutshell:


Prepare a fire plan
Prepare your house/property
Decide early (i.e. when you see smoke) to either stay and defend or evacuate

You can view that at www.cfv.vic.gov.au (http://www.cfv.vic.gov.au)
You are right though in people getting away too late but apparently these fires were on top of people in as little as 30sec nothing on land could outrun them.

One huge problem down here is the lack of water, we've 12 years of very much below average rainfall, water storage's across the state are very low. But when we had good rains in November/December the bush grew like all hell & thus dried out to such an extent that it is a ticking bomb waiting to go off as it did. That's the natural cycle of the bush.

I understand that the big bushfires you had in the Mid-West USA and California were terrible. Am i right in saying that California have a lot of (imported) eucalyptus trees?

Anyway we aint out of the woods yet, fires are still going & communities are still under threat.......

RIP to all who have passed away.

[b24_witchcraft]

Sad to hear of this. My prayers and sympathies go out to those who have lost loved ones as a result of these awful fires.
Here's a photo essay I found on Boston.com - http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/02/bushfires_in_victoria_australi.html
Hope the people starting these fires get caught and get the justice they deserve.

[Wing_Z]

This is heart-breaking stuff, and I've made my Red Cross donation...
Lots of anger coming out now, I simply cannot believe anyone would be purposely setting fires in these conditions, doesn't make any sense.

One other thing I couldn't understand: some of the aerial pics show an entire neighbourhood of burnt-out houses, but there is still a tree canopy visible.
What are they, and why do they survive??

[An-225]

Terrible, 180+ are dead, thats what I last heard.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Guru I don't think we disagree on anything.

As I understand it your right some of these fires were so fast there was little time to react. It comes down to how prepared are you - when it turns dry - get ready to either get out or get into it with mother nature.

The speed of these fires and the ability they have to spot ahead is what is so incredible to me. The shaggy bark ignited then in the fire column and flying ahead means an incredibly fast moving fire. In the US it's generally wind although California has many very flammable fuels but these are sometimes in combination with bad planning that gets people in trouble.

I think our time is coming in the US. We've seen only a taste of the megafires - starting with Yellowstone in 88 and then several big fire years and then California this past year. These are wakeup calls and while wildfire experts "get it" the general public still doesn't - they seem to think humans are in control. Yellowstone in 88 is a phenominal example - if only the public could truly understand what happened there. The US had had a history of 75 odd years of dominating fire and then in Yellowstone fire showed who really had the upper hand. At no time in the history of fire fighting in the US had any fire had the resources thrown at it that the Yellowstone fires did. There were enough aircraft of so many varieties that ATC was needed. The US went so far as to have Apache attack helicopters trying to bucket water - Apaches are bad firefighters! A General was in charge of the military fire fighters - a General - how many men is that? It was an election year - the Presidential candidates were in and out - the whole country watched America's first national park burn - and there was absolutely no power that America could throw at those fires that could stop them. One congressman wanted an emergency pipeline built from the Pacific ocean to supply enough water to fight those fires. Absolutely true.

The park is fine - probably for the most part far healthier (ecologically speaking) now than it was before those fires - I was there this fall looking at the legacy of those fires. To hear the men who tried to fight those fires say that until then they had never seen fires like those was an eyeopener. And then to see what was thrown at trying to fight them. In the end weather started the fires and weather made them controllable - the resources of the United States of America were pitiful in their efforts to stop them. Probaly not since the 1910 fires in the northern rockies or the Tillamook or perhaps peshtigo had fires like that been seen.

The point being that we as humans really don't learn from our own history or from the experiences of others - like what is happening in Australia. Perhaps California will help. It's still put it out - a burned tree is a waste of a resource that coulda been cash - I don't want to smell smoke - and it won't happen to me. Frustrating as in real life I am a wildland fire management specialist.

-Ed-

[stiz]

One other thing I couldn't understand: some of the aerial pics show an entire neighbourhood of burnt-out houses, but there is still a tree canopy visible.
What are they, and why do they survive??

could have been a low burning fire? in africa all the main trees and such survive wild fires whilst all the shrub gets destroy, not sure if its the same case here?? or it could be the same type of thing that if you drop a bomb on a house all is destroyed except the china plates, which i have never understood!

[wombat666]

"One other thing I couldn't understand: some of the aerial pics show an entire neighbourhood of burnt-out houses, but there is still a tree canopy visible.
What are they, and why do they survive??"

Two things have contributed to this seemingly unusual scenario.
Radiant heat is one but the primary cause has been ember strikes, plus the fact that the worst hit areas are more or less 'outer suburbs'.

Kinglake was a 'Treechange' town, many of the residents were retired while a large number were younger people who had opted out of the Urban sprawl.
What you then end up with are semi-urban streets tucked in the bush, so it would appear that as one home lit up the next in line followed and so on down entire streets .......... :kilroy:

Most (but not all) of the immediate casualties were found in vehicles, in this case it seems as if radiant heat has been the primary cause.
Given the average MV has a 'glass area' making up between 30% to 50% of the total surface area, anyone sheltering inside has little protection, as radiant heat will pass through glass.
Compounding the danger, dense smoke, extreme heat, quite narrow sreets and the 'stress factor' resulted in a large number of MVA incidents as residents attempted to escape.

As for 'wetting down' buildings, as Guruswarmyoz has mentioned, water is very scarce and the firefront generated radiant heat temperatures can be up to 1000C, not much can stand in the way of heat of that magnitude!

The death toll is looking very grim, with teams only beginning to search through areas that have just become open, Marysville being one such example.
Out of 500 residents the number of deceased is esitmated at 20% ........!
The forensic crews are really up against it identifying remains, as any structures must be checked before they can enter and search.
It has been esimated by the Victorian State Coroner that it will be 12 months or more before they can identify victims, an some they will not be able to identify.

Aside from the Human toll, it is estimated that 1,000,000+ native animals have been killed, I haven't heard any livestock numbers but expect they will be just as horrific.

As for 'Arsonists', it is probable that a few fires were set by these dearanged people, but most have been the result of lightning strikes and other natural causes.......and we currently have some 30+/- fires burning.

Not good at all.

[AussieMan]

One of the problems with trees in Australia is their oil content. The main type of tree here is of the Eucalypt variety. The USA has a variety of the Eucalypt but you also have the Cypress Pine trees. These are are also very high in oil content.

On a hot dry day with the proper conditions and wind a fire can very quickly get into the tree tops hence we have what is a crown fire. And with the radiant heat the leaves are dried out and explode in the fire.

The fire on the forest floor consumes the ground litter which means you virtually have 2 fires at once. Once a fire reaches a slope like a hill or mountainside the speed of the fire will increase with the slope. A fire travelling at say 10 kilometers per hour on flat ground will speed up to 20 kph on a 10 degree slope. But if that slope was increased to 20 degrees the speed would icrease four fold.

I was not aware of that kind of speed increase until I did my Advanced Firefighter Course and Crew Leader Course. Even though I am in Communications this knowledge is valuable in an emergency.

Sorry if I have rambled on here.

Cheers
Pat

[wombat666]

Pat,
Add the large number of Pine Plantations around the Kinglake-Marysville area etc and 47C ambient plus the 50+K Northerlys and it was just a matter of time.
:kilroy:

[AussieMan]

Noel, wasn't aware there were plantations in that area. We have them up here as well.

Cheers
Pat

[AussieMan]

Found this tribute on the ORBX forums. It was made by Ryan "Aussiecop" Mason who is one of our better exports to the US. As his nic says he is a policeman in Indiana.

http://www.vimeo.com/3174442

I will never be able to listen to this tune without thinking of the heroes and victims.

Cheers
Pat

[demorier]

I have a mate from way back living in south east suburban Melbourne out Dandenong way. He said on the Saturday it was 47 deg with a big hot wind blowing. Around the neighbourhood there are quite a few gum trees....the hot wind was igniting the tops of the trees.

[AussieMan]

A 39 year old man has been charged for lighting the Churchill fire on Saturday.

Charged with arson causing death, recklessly starting a bushfire and being in possession of child pornography. And his stupid lawyer is trying the mental health issues defence. Hope the court sees right through this and puts him away for life.

Cheers
Pat

[wombat666]

'Sam' the Koala is doing well and recovering from her burns.
She drank three bottles of water when this was taken!!!
Fires still threatening several areas and the offical toll is into the 190+ region.

[TARPSBird]

...Charged with arson causing death, recklessly starting a bushfire and being in possession of child pornography. And his stupid lawyer is trying the mental health issues defence. Hope the court sees right through this and puts him away for life.
Cheers
Pat
Lock him up forever so he can't hurt children or burn people. :mad:

[AussieMan]

Toll is now 200 dead and rising.

Cheers
Pat