Microsoft FLIGHT releases tomorrow-Any Takers? - Page 6
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Thread: Microsoft FLIGHT releases tomorrow-Any Takers?

  1. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by heywooood View Post
    when it ever comes to that, rest assured the community will find a workaround

    FWIW I agree that Flight is somewhat disappointing - but as MS offered it up for free I am not as upset about it as I might have been

    I get the direction they took with Flight - trying to make it more appealing to general users in a nice idea, and capturing ALL of the development revenue is less draconian than it is pragmatic..

    I think it will not pan out the way they had hoped. I think it will appeal more to people who are less likely to be bothered will additional content (casual gamers) than FSX does to ardent flight sim enthusiasts
    and so will attract less money overall. If instead they had made a trademark usage deal with 3rd party developers - a "You guys can do whatever you want - but if it is "For FSX" then MS gets 5%" approach - they would realize far more revenue than they will by taking 100% from casual., disinterested, transient gamers. And when they allow freeware to be developed they likely realize far more core sales than they otherwise would so dissallowing freeware harms MS Flight too.

    But - if they adapt Flight to a slightly more FSX model in time, and they could - Flight can still have ATC and AI and Heavy Airline equipment added and it doesnt have to be payware...it is TODAY - but alot can change in a day. In the mean time, this Stearman is a blast.
    Yep, well put.
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  2. #127
    I agree with what you have said Heywooood and after a dissapointing first run and rant by me in the Flight forum, I came back
    and had another go with it thinking that maybe I had been quick with my observations.

    Well I now have to report that I have not changed my mind in anyway, to me it's just a game and always will be,
    but I must say that it's taken a hell of a lot of money and time to get FSX to the stage I have it at now, it,s now what I thought it was going to be when I first bought it so .

  3. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Thompson View Post
    I agree with what you have said Heywooood and after a dissapointing first run and rant by me in the Flight forum, I came back
    and had another go with it thinking that maybe I had been quick with my observations.

    Well I now have to report that I have not changed my mind in anyway, to me it's just a game and always will be,
    but I must say that it's taken a hell of a lot of money and time to get FSX to the stage I have it at now, it,s now what I thought it was going to be when I first bought it so .
    Me too, regarding FSX - I have it looking right and working well with relatively high settings and it only took 5 years, two computer builds, FTX and REX, endless .cfg tweaking, and a pile of payware planes amounting to a staggering sum of money...lol I mean staggering

    And I think Microsoft noticed - and wanted a bigger piece of the action

    So here is Flight - looking (and performing) in its infancy like FSX of two years ago and with far fewer features...and yet all of the placeholders are there FOR those features to be added later (probably for a price that, by the time Flight contains as much as FSX did at release, it will have 10 times the pricetag) - now the million dollar question is...will anyone care?
    Because it has already turned off so many potential customers - customers who had been faithful to the frachise for its open architecture and comprehensive depth, who have really made the MSFS franchise what it is. Customers who would have been automatic had Microsoft continued in the same vein as FS9 and FSX but who now appear to be about 85-90% against Flight - non starters...

    Microsoft failed to see that, one of the biggest reasons the MSFS community buys these programs is that they know the 3rd party development community will eventually take something good and worthwhile..and turn it into something extraordinary.
    They didn't include us in their new business model...they either don't care if we come along - or they just think we will because we always do.. eventually
    I think that's partially why the initial release of Flight is free - we can either take it or leave it - making the choice without spending a dime.
    And we still have FSX while we wait and see whether their idea is sound...or a complete mistake.

    I'm hoping they will see the F'n light with Flight and open it up - they had a really good thing going if only they would have made a less radical correction.
    enter..the Sandman

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  4. #129
    This may be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but....

    ....What if the things you see and hear of Flight right now are just scratching the surface? Don't get me wrong...I am not defending Microsoft....but c'mon. These folks are being paid a LOT of money, to develop something for the PC aviation community, young and old, and everything in between. Who says there is not a 'FLight PRO' version in the works? Or, expansion packs that offer the specifics a lot of us are waiting for/want to see? I don't like the idea of MS closing off the 3rd party developers at all...but maybe they will be allowed in once Flight reaches a certain maturation point? I will have to take a wait and see attitude here. But, I will never dismiss that which I do not know. And a company as large and capable as Microsoft is no dunce. They know what they are doing. They know we are here. And they know we are waiting.
    Matt

  5. #130
    Matt,

    If you recall, back when FSX first released its demo, there were many noted third party vendors who commented about how they were already developing products for FSX. You do not hear that chatter for Flight.

    I suspect this is an official divorce between Microsoft and third party open-ended development. I also think it meets the goal that MS announced a few years back toward online gaming where you paid a subscription fee.

    Now, personally, I think this is a very flawed marketing model. I think customers are going to balk at a recurrent fee to play PC-based and/or X-Box-based video games. But, MS is going to have to feel the pain to figure that out. What concerns me the most is that the suits will see the failure, but instead of returning to open architecture, MS will just totally abandon the flight sim genre. You see, the man at MS who was responsible for the FS series no longer works at MS (Paul Allen). Paul was and remains a huge booster for general aviation. In short, the man loves flying.

    Paul's latest flight venture is to sponsor Bert Rutan's Space Ship One that won the Ansari X Prize. Now, that venture is on the cusp of pioneering true commercial space travel with investments from Paul Allen and Richard Branson.

    Paul also includes aviation in his many charity projects by sponsoring the Flying Heritage Collection, which is an assembly of vintage aircraft and warbirds.

    As long as Paul Allen was one of the movers and shakers at MS, you could count on the continuation of the FS series. Nobody wanted to sit at an MS board meeting and explain to Paul why the FS series was going away! But Allen retired in 2000 and it is no secret that the level of committment to the FS series has ebbed since then.

    I hope I am wrong in all this and that you are right. But, my pragmatic side doesn't believe this to be the case.

    Ken

  6. #131
    Ken, my opinion (which rarely means anything) is that the powers that be behind MS Flight don't really care whether the FSX/FS9 crowd comes along or not. They are moving to the gaming platform (specifically the "Live" Gaming platform) and that's a whole different market than those who are diehard Flight Simulator enthusiasts. As far as the 3rd party developers being involved, it was understood a long time ago that all addons would be handled in-house by Microsoft, hence the lack of chatter amongst the developers. . . .it was one of the things that early on began turning folks against what was coming. . . .basically a pay to play video game for kids with everything emanating from the Microsoft Empire.

    I also believe that if "Flight" nosedives at some point and nothing right now says it will, but if it does then MS can finally wash their hands of the Flight Sim genre satisfied that they gave it their best shot and use all that wasted space in the home office for something that will make them the big bucks, lol.:salute:
    USAF Retired, 301st Fighter Wing, Carswell AFB, Texas
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  7. #132
    If Flight tanks, MS wont give flight simming a 3rd chance. If Microsoft failed at making money on flight simming, and all other company's have folded or closed (Fly, Flight Unlimited and the rest), no invester will ever touch a new full-scale flight sim project for a LONG time.

    Sure, we will still have XP, and FSX will still be around, but there wont be anything new for a really really long time. Do you really want simming owned by a monopoly? I dont. Competition is a good thing. XP is slow to advance as it is!!!
    Kevin "Gibbage" Miller


  8. #133
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    I think the one lesson we've learned is not to panic. Sims with the kind of loyalty seen on SOH die hard. I am still an ardent FS9 user, who only now, after all these years is about to take the plunge into FSX usage and development. So for me, FSX is a whole new playground that I intend to get as much out of as I have from FS9 for the last 8 years. So what I am trying to say is, if Flight bombs, personally speaking as a slow adopter, I am not worried. All the more so if MS truly are not intending to cut 3rd party folks into this. We've still got plenty of development potential in these 'older' sims let alone what opens up in this new puppy...

    I can't help but sit here and feel the deja vu from when X came out though - a point that has been well-made in this thread


    Steven Beeny, FS repainter and modeller.

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  9. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbage View Post

    Sure, we will still have XP, and FSX will still be around,
    Are you sure about that? What about when M$ decides FSX is at "End Of Life", and discontinues support? How are you going to reactivate it the next time you need to re-install?

  10. #135
    The Flight interface reminds me more of CFS then the FS series but I'm still enjoying it immensely. I hope they continue to expand it.

    I'm not that worked up over MS retaining development control at this point, particularly if they have a development path in mind that they wish to control; from how I'm reading the interviews third-party development could become a reality in the future. The IL2 series followed a similar path and it didn't hurt that franchise but did allow them to control it's evolution.

    On a side note, I'd love to know how much MS has made off the FS series compared to the third-party community; particularly when you look at how long the last three FS versions have remained active, the initial cost of the game and the cost of the addons (many of which cost more then then host program). I know for me, the MS element of the hobby has been by far the cheapest.

  11. #136
    I personally believe that what made the MS simulators the success they were was the 3rd party community. Take this away, I'm not sure what's left.

    However, MS sales will tell in due course as to whether my opinion stands corrected

  12. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Felixthreeone View Post
    This may be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but....

    ....What if the things you see and hear of Flight right now are just scratching the surface? Don't get me wrong...I am not defending Microsoft....but c'mon. These folks are being paid a LOT of money, to develop something for the PC aviation community, young and old, and everything in between. Who says there is not a 'FLight PRO' version in the works? Or, expansion packs that offer the specifics a lot of us are waiting for/want to see? I don't like the idea of MS closing off the 3rd party developers at all...but maybe they will be allowed in once Flight reaches a certain maturation point? I will have to take a wait and see attitude here. But, I will never dismiss that which I do not know. And a company as large and capable as Microsoft is no dunce. They know what they are doing. They know we are here. And they know we are waiting.
    I do not see anything wrong with this opinion...I am just as optimistic as you are.

    MS must realize how much 3rd party development contributed to FS sales throughout the span of the entire franchise to date...that without the open architecture, FS9 and FSX especially don't have near
    the volume of sales that occured and are still occuring. In fact - dont be surprised if the release of Flight results in a significant spike in sales of FSX units - I made sure I have a still wrapped in celophane copy of FSX Gold and a spare HD with Win7 loaded and kept current...just for the day.

    But unless the goal is to kill MSFS entirely (and developing a brand new program is a bizzare way to do it) the closing of Flight entirely to 3rd party development is just a huge mistake at the highest level of the company..
    problem being that those people virtually NEVER admit to any mistakes - they just plow ahead blaming "lack of interest" "fickle customers" "guess no one cares about 'flying games' anymore" etc...
    enter..the Sandman

    visit Heywood Planes - YouTube

  13. #138
    I can't find the link but on one of the flight sim forums (could of been ours) someone posted a link about MS developer talking about the direction of Flight. It sounded like to me they want to baby this program along and keeping it simple drawing in more possible enthusiast into the hobby. They said in time they would not rule out 3rd party developers. It sounded like a Mom (MS) taking care of her new baby (Flight) and nobody touches the child until the child has matured enough to be in safe hands (our wounderfull 3rd party developers).

    Jim

  14. #139
    One other thought I had on flight today as I read the different post throughout the community regarding flight. Using RC fying as an example. I can only imagine down at one of those RC parks a bunch of folks sharing time flying and showing off their remote control planes with eachother. Along comes a kid with his balsa wood rubber band flying machine...remember those .25 cents airplanes that broke after the first few tries. I bet those RC enthusiast would support and nurture that kid instead of sending him to another park or another field to play in.

    I think we should all be excited about any new aircraft sim or game that helps push those boundries in our hobby. It can only result in someday that utimate sim (if I am still around).

    Jim

  15. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by limjack View Post
    I can't find the link but on one of the flight sim forums (could of been ours) someone posted a link about MS developer talking about the direction of Flight. It sounded like to me they want to baby this program along and keeping it simple drawing in more possible enthusiast into the hobby. They said in time they would not rule out 3rd party developers. It sounded like a Mom (MS) taking care of her new baby (Flight) and nobody touches the child until the child has matured enough to be in safe hands (our wounderfull 3rd party developers).

    Jim
    Here you go Jim
    It is at the Microsoft Flight web site:
    https://news.microsoftflight.com/blo...ua-howard.aspx


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  16. #141

    Thumbs up Maybe it's time for someone else to take over the Flight Sim rein

    Great graphics but useless to the flight simmer if you ask me.

    I just feel they missed the whole point. Microsoft has always been the benchmark for the flight Simulator. Now it's just become a game! And a GREADY one at that.

    Very very sad.

    I just hope someone else fills the void. I'll be flying FSX till something better comes out. A real flight simulator.

    Just my 2 cents.

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  17. #142
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    I think most, given time, will find Flight to be an amazing synergy between game elements and state of the art desktop flight simulation.... try hand flying the RV on an ILS in bad weather and see where Flight just destroys FSX in terms of realism. Not everyones bag of chips for sure, but they absolutely have a winner as far as flight dynamics - "feel of flight" as it is, and uncommon access to that experience. As a long time simmer and pilot, Flight just does it for me, lol.

  18. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Barfly View Post
    I think most, given time, will find Flight to be an amazing synergy between game elements and state of the art desktop flight simulation.... try hand flying the RV on an ILS in bad weather and see where Flight just destroys FSX in terms of realism. Not everyones bag of chips for sure, but they absolutely have a winner as far as flight dynamics - "feel of flight" as it is, and uncommon access to that experience. As a long time simmer and pilot, Flight just does it for me, lol.

    I wasn't going to try it, because that's all I need to do is add to the time I mess with this stuff. However, knowing something of your impeccable aviation credentials, I'll have to go with your endorsement and give it a try.

    (Yeah, thanks alot, buddy. Girlfriend, not gonna like this.)

  19. #144
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    Hey Bone, maybe your girlfriend will like it Let her have a shot at messing around with it. Oh, make sure you spend enough time to work through the landing challenges... then you'll have a good idea what it's all about. The beginning stuff is a bit tedious for an experienced guy.

  20. #145
    Thanks, Greg, and you're just adding in the tedious part to...what? make me feel better, lol.

  21. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Barfly View Post
    I think most, given time, will find Flight to be an amazing synergy between game elements and state of the art desktop flight simulation.... try hand flying the RV on an ILS in bad weather and see where Flight just destroys FSX in terms of realism. Not everyones bag of chips for sure, but they absolutely have a winner as far as flight dynamics - "feel of flight" as it is, and uncommon access to that experience. As a long time simmer and pilot, Flight just does it for me, lol.
    yes - is that " RV-6 Landing Challenge 3" ?

    what a blast...weather, including wind gusts and turbulence, is so much better in Flight
    enter..the Sandman

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  22. #147






    ..my new friend

    ..and a couple random shots with terrain





    enter..the Sandman

    visit Heywood Planes - YouTube

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by heywooood View Post
    yes - is that " RV-6 Landing Challenge 3" ?

    what a blast...weather, including wind gusts and turbulence, is so much better in Flight
    I think it's RV challenge 5 or 6. You hand fly an ILS in very thick cloud to below minimums. The landing environment lights aren't as bright as they would be IRL for those conditions (really you'd be CAT II) so it's extra hard. It's maybe RVR 400 or so visibility. Had to go around and reintercept and landed on the second try. Sweaty hands no kidding; it felt like a real approach, much moreso than FSX.

  24. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Astoroth View Post
    Are you sure about that? What about when M$ decides FSX is at "End Of Life", and discontinues support? How are you going to reactivate it the next time you need to re-install?
    I can still install and activate old copy's of Windows OS just fine. MS does NOT have a history of killing old software like that. "EOL" at MS means no more patches or service support. We havent had that for FSX in years.
    Kevin "Gibbage" Miller


  25. #150
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    This I Hear Thru the ever growing" GRAPE VINE!!"...Are we observing an EVOLUTION in progress??...we Shall see!...In any event,for me ,and if it Flys,on My desk top???? and looks better than my AVATAR?? WELCOME to my Hanger ,and share with FS9, FSX.. and now to include FLIGHT....the best of all Worlds!!....


    (Microsoft Studios) – Available to download for free at www.MicrosoftFlight.com, “Microsoft Flight” is a new Windows PC game that lets players jump into the thrill of flight with no special hardware or past experience. This Spring, fans will be able to purchase the Journey to Alaska Pack, the second in a series of expansion packs for the game with over 1.2 million square miles of captivating scenery, additional missions and new aircraft.

    YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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